Wiki

[Rui]

I suggested this before, Elenai thought it was a great idea... but Ralle did not, and as such, he did not set up a Wiki.

My idea was to have up a Wiki with articles about website users (not necessarily the Hive's), characters from stories and movies such as Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, custom roleplay themes (my Dawn and Twilight, for example. I'd love to have a Wiki to deposit information about it)...

I really want to know what everybody thinks of this!
Also, is anyone capable of putting a MediaWiki running?

{EDIT}
It was suggested that this would be better placed here.

 

[Pyritie]

Weren't we planning on a wiki at some point in the past?

 

[Rui]

We were, indeed. Like I said, me and Elenai thought it was a great idea. I believe Ralle still sent something to Samuraid, but forgot a few files, and so everything stopped right there. He later told me did not really appreciate the idea.
That's why I'm suggesting maybe someone can do something independently.

 

[Linaze]

I am not fond of the entire Lord of the Rings idea (even though I know that was just an example):
"This is a warcraft 3 site, after all."

 

[bounty hunter2]

I'm totally up for it, if you will do it, I could certanlly be able to write any articles required. Great idea.
Any Hive and warcraft related stuff could be put into it. A poll perhaps for the topic?

 

[Preskooldude]

Weren't we planning on a wiki at some point in the past?

Didn't we HAVE a wiki at some point in the past?

 

[Deathcom3s]

Sounds like a good idea to me, i don't see how it would hurt anything.

Rui, did you want a link to a working MediaWiki, or did you want to know if anyone knows how to set one up? Because I can provide both.

 

[Rui]

I am not fond of the entire Lord of the Rings idea (even though I know that was just an example):
"This is a warcraft 3 site, after all."

I am pretty sure I'm not making myself clear by writing the wrong words.

Despite the thread's name (which I will change right now), the Wiki does not necessarily need to belong to the Hive. I repeat: that's why I asked if anyone was able to do anything as an independent.

I'm totally up for it, if you will do it, I could certanlly be able to write any articles required. Great idea.
Any Hive and warcraft related stuff could be put into it. A poll perhaps for the topic?

I'd rather keep it in words, for now.

Thanks for the support!

Didn't we HAVE a wiki at some point in the past?

If you're referring to HIVEChan, it was more a make-fun-of-Hive-users Wiki rather than anything else. Ralle even filtered it on the Chat, since the content was really humiliating for some of our users, and it created a huge polemic last year. If you search the pages of this forum, you might find them.

Sounds like a good idea to me, i don't see how it would hurt anything.

Rui, did you want a link to a working MediaWiki, or did you want to know if anyone knows how to set one up? Because I can provide both.

I wanted to know if anyone could set one up. You mean, you can do that?

{EDIT} I have spoken to DeathCom3s on the Chat, we'll be speaking again tomorrow.

P.S. – I'm going now. I'll be viewing this thread tomorrow around 17:30 GMT.

 

[Deathcom3s]

I wanted to know if anyone could set one up. You mean, you can do that?

Yeah, i can set one up. what is it you need me to do exactly?

 

[~Void~]

We already have HCWiki D:

 

[Elenai]

A sanctioned (and clean/nice) wiki would be a great idea. And I still support it.

Despite the thread's name (which I will change right now), the Wiki does not necessarily need to belong to the Hive. I repeat: that's why I asked if anyone was able to do anything as an independent.

To be honest, I think the HIVE should own it, so that it can be moderated, and kept under our eyes and control.

The HIVEchan wiki was degrading, and humiliating. It still is to some degree, and it is under the control of...persons...

I don't want a wiki that we cannot keep clean, or punish abuse for. We could not punish the Chanwiki, because we did not own it, and the owners refused to change the degrading pages, and added more in our spite. This is not to happen in the future. We must have ownership for any wiki related to the HIVE, or any of its interests to avoid 'its our wiki, we'll do as we please' attitudes.

 

[~Void~]

Ehehehehe, and what the fuck would we put in it if not lulz?

 

[Elenai]

Ehehehehe, and what the fuck would we put in it if not lulz?

Something worthwhile and productive perhaps...

I am still not very impressed with the way things happened on that site. This wiki will be different.

 

[Deathcom3s]

If i set up the wiki, i'll be sure to give the Hive proper rights to it, and allow the staff/directors to manage it as they see fit.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I don't even know why we need a Wiki.

 

[Elenai]

If i set up the wiki, i'll be sure to give the Hive proper rights to it, and allow the staff/directors to manage it as they see fit.

Good, and many thanks.

 

[~Void~]

Something worthwhile and productive perhaps...

Like what? Please clarify...

I am still not very impressed with the way things happened on that site. This wiki will be different.

Yeah no shit, because a good portion was directed at you.

 

[Hawkwing]

I don't even know why we need a Wiki.

The idea seems really stupid, if you ask me.

 

[Kwah]

It seems pointless.

Rather.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

IIf you're referring to HIVEChan, it was more a make-fun-of-Hive-users Wiki rather than anything else.

The HIVEchan wiki was degrading, and humiliating. It still is to some degree, and it is under the control of...persons...

I thought that was the only purpose of HIVEChan in the first place?

 

[Samuraid]

I have finished a vBulletin/dokuwiki integration on another site and would would be willing to set one up for here as well, assuming Ralle is willing and interested.

 

[Hakeem]

Not to be a damper on the idea, but social groups don't even have categories yet.

 

[Elenai]

various "it is pointless" posts

Like what? Please clarify...

A wiki is I believe a very good idea: A sanctioned, clean, and USEFUL wiki at that.

Here is a list of what you can do when you are not so busy dragging the image of somebody you through mud, sludge, Hell, and back, for some cheap laugh.

• Create highly advanced, indepth tutorials for every area of map creation, from models to icons, from the most complicated JASS lines, to the simplest GUI. And have them in an efficient and searchable database.
• Create highly advanced, indepth tutorials for things that are not directly modding related, but are still highly useful, tutorials on improving skills that our esteemed HIVE users are adept at. Such as PHP, Java, artistic ventures, music, English grammar (?), and etc. And have them in an efficient and searchable database.
• Store the already vast amounts of tutorials in an easier to access, and have them in an efficient and searchable database.
• Store vast amounts of lore, and storyline material from both wc3, AND wc3 modding projects, and in the future SC2, and Diablo related materials.
• Store vast amounts of lore, and storyline material from things not warcraft, diablo, or starcraft related. LOTR, Discworld, Narnia, Fallout!?, etc.
• Store vast amounts of information that is non-blizzard related, such as PHP code, Java scripts, artistic devices, computer information, etc.
• Create lists of various things required to make the perfect map.
• Create pages devoted to the various tips and tricks of forum usage, and proper HIVE ettiquette.
• Proper biographies of HIVE users both past, present, and those who will come in the future.

And there are plenty of other things that can be done with a proper wiki. A wiki with the freedom to post good solid, positive information...instead of insultive backwash for every troll and flamer to drink their fill of.

Yeah no shit, because a good portion was directed at you.

I can handle much...very much...But it was not particularly me that all the vomit was directed at, but at others upon which the whole attitude of treating people with complete and utter disregard for their humanity was particularly acute and blatant. It will NOT happen with this wiki, not by a long shot, if I can help it at all.

At this point the only thing positive on that site...is Frosty and his comics. And that is due mostly to their rather artistic value. (he is rather brilliant with screenies...incredible I must say)

This wiki, will strive to bring some positive influence and intelligent progress into the HIVE world.

I was at first highly impressed with the HIVEchanwiki, thinking it was the wiki that we had at first planned to create, and that one would be able to do great things with it...I turned a few pages and was not just disappointed, I was downright appalled...

This one will be different, This one will be a good wiki, the wiki that RUi, and I had hope to see long ago.

 

[Zombie]

Totally useless if it's not for the lulz. (see: hc wiki)

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Some Comments @ Ele

Create highly advanced, indepth tutorials for every area of map creation, from models to icons, from the most complicated JASS lines, to the simplest GUI. And have them in an efficient and searchable database.

Ohhhh, you mean the tutorial section..

Create highly advanced, indepth tutorials for things that are not directly modding related, but are still highly useful, tutorials on improving skills that our esteemed HIVE users are adept at. Such as PHP, Java, artistic ventures, music, English grammar (?), and etc. And have them in an efficient and searchable database.

If you make the wiki entirely unrelated to WC3, that defeats the purpose of having it endorsed by the Hive. If you want an 'everything' wiki as you suggest, do it on your own time and space.

Store the already vast amounts of tutorials in an easier to access, and have them in an efficient and searchable database.

It's already searchable and keeping it on-site already makes it easier to access.

Store vast amounts of lore, and storyline material from both wc3, AND wc3 modding projects, and in the future SC2, and Diablo related materials.

See above. There's already a forum here for it.

Store vast amounts of information that is non-blizzard related, such as PHP code, Java scripts, artistic devices, computer information, etc.

See above.

Create lists of various things required to make the perfect map.

Oh my God.

Create pages devoted to the various tips and tricks of forum usage, and proper HIVE ettiquette.

We call that the FAQ.

Proper biographies of HIVE users both past, present, and those who will come in the future.

You already have profiles. Those MySpace would-be user cp's more than cover anything you could possibly want. I mean seriously, you even get photo albums..

---

Off Topic Couldn't Help it Stuff

And you know, I hate to be a dick, but using the words "highly advanced," "in-depth," and "vast" to describe every other thing you think will make your wiki awesome doesn't make what you say any more valid. Please focus on content in your posts, it will make your points far more reputable and legitimate.

Let's be perfectly honest here. If you don't permit the debauchery that goes down on this site to be the driving force of the wiki, it serves no purpose whatsoever. All of the legitimate content that happens to exist at this website is already sufficiently accessible and locatable where it is. Making a wiki for those sorts of things is an unnecessary expenditure of time on anyone involved's part.

 

[Squiggy]

Not everything needs a wiki

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I hate to barge in just like that, but what are the problems about it? It usn't that hard to make a Wiki and let everyone human (and Elenai and Pyritie) have a go at his or her article(s).

I'd vote yes for it, because I would like see everyone getting described from the smallest scam to the biggest detail. And I would find it funny if someone finally talked seriously about me and my epic past, hur hur.
I'd vote yes for it, because I'd like to see every goddamn Wc3 tutorial getting explained instead of searching for it for an hour long.
I'd vote yes for it, because <Insert speech here>.

But we got to have a proper name for it, but it has to be simple. Like ''HiveWiki'' will do, that's simple.


But yet again, if we have a wiki with everything on it and it keeps getting bigger, what'll happen to the Hive then, hmm? Will we remain a free forum or just an automated Wikipedia, controlled by SkyNet?

 

[Pyritie]

What would we need a wiki for, anyway?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Nothing at all. Any reason anyone can come up with for its existence is already taken care of superbly by the forum structure.

 

[Elenai]

Have you ever tried searching for anything on this forum?

It is not easy at all.

As for the rest of it...wikis are efficient.

On a personal note Rising_Dusk...I do believe you need to get some sleep.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Rising_Dusk does have a point Elenai, but still, searching for anything here is a huge pain, really.

I don't see why it would hurt having one. So what if there's no real benefit for having a wiki? If we want to have one, and we're willing to manage it, and people enjoy it, why not have it?

I think it'd be cool if we could compile a complete history of the Hive, from it's beginning to present, and i think a wiki would be a great place for that.

 

[bounty hunter2]

Indeed, it has it cons, but it would be nice having one in the end. To sum up the entire Hive on one place. Maybe even sear.

 

[Rui]

I don't even know why we need a Wiki.

I don't even know why we need the Hive. It's a forum for which Ralle has to pay every month for some ungrateful bastards to use.

That was not directed at anyone, if it keeps you wondering.

---

I thought that was the only purpose of HIVEChan in the first place?

Yes, it was. But I don't get what you're trying to add. I played no part in the planning of a Wiki, let alone HIVEChan. Somebody once linked to it on the Chat, and there it was.

---

I have finished a vBulletin/dokuwiki integration on another site and would would be willing to set one up for here as well, assuming Ralle is willing and interested.

I guess you didn't read the first post, but that was exactly the problem: Ralle did not manifest interest towards the idea.

---

If you make the wiki entirely unrelated to WC3, that defeats the purpose of having it endorsed by the Hive. If you want an 'everything' wiki as you suggest, do it on your own time and space.

Why does anything endorsed to the Hive need to be Warcraft-related? ^{edit} But again, I'm not against an independent Wiki.

You already have profiles. Those MySpace would-be user cp's more than cover anything you could possibly want. I mean seriously, you even get photo albums..

Some data and other annoying stuff such as profile visitor messages, reputation logs, and even albums and pictures don't fit in the definition of ''biography''.

---

Biographies and lore accumulation are the main reasons I'd like to have this Wiki. But websites certainly deserve an article as well, especially those such as Hive and wc3sear.ch.
The Lord of the Rings community, the Roleplaying community, they all deserve an article. As do a few notable clans and game maps and map types.
As I mentioned before, who said this needs to be specifically Warcraft III? Lots of other games exist as well. There are a lot of things that could fit into this ''Virtual World Wiki''.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Yes, it was. But I don't get what you're trying to add. I played no part in the planning of a Wiki, let alone HIVEChan. Somebody once linked to it on the Chat, and there it was.

You and Elenai were both implying that the HIVEChan wiki started out as somewhat useful before it turned to parodying or insulting THW users.

Anyways, one reason for a Wiki is that people are total forum n00bs. Pages of information are easier to format and digest as wiki pages than forums, and come on. The entire point of a wiki is searching for information, whereas most forum n00bs immediately create a thread when it takes them longer than five minutes to find an answer.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

As I mentioned before, who said this needs to be specifically Warcraft III? Lots of other games exist as well. There are a lot of things that could fit into this ''Virtual World Wiki''.

This doesn't stand so much as a reason for a wiki to exist, but rather discusses the website's goals on the whole. Consider the first thing people see when they come to the site for the first time -

The Hive is a Warcraft III modding community. If you are totally new to the game or very skilled, you may either learn and get help or teach others: there is a place reserved here for you! The site also contains a vast resource section including most of the resources that anyone will ever need for a Warcraft project. You will find campaigns, icons, maps, models, skins, spells and tools. Extensive tutorials contain realms of information on how to create, improve and perfect your resources and maps. The Hive's forum allows everyone to talk about the game, modding, making resources and many other subjects.

Let's focus on the bolded part of that for a moment. A "Warcraft III modding community," it says. That is the site's purpose, whether you want it to be or not. Now, if you want to discuss a change to the site's purpose so that it encompasses more things than just WC3, that doesn't really belong in this topic.

Specifically for the case of this site's purpose as it currently is, there is little that can be accomplished by a wiki that cannot be accomplished by a forum. If Ralle really wants biographies, he can make a forum for it that people can submit a single thread to about themselves. Petition for that if it's what you want, not for a wiki.

There already exists a forum for lore and storyboards and stuff, so post your lore-related discussion there. Or as a director, accumulate your lore and make it a closed sticky in that forum. Voillah.

Rising_Dusk does have a point Elenai, but still, searching for anything here is a huge pain, really.

A search is only as good as the user performing it. I've never had problems finding anything I look for at any website, including this one. I trust that given the right keywords and advanced search criteria, you can find anything you want. The only things wikis have that forum searches don't are disambiguation pages and a different organization, but you get something remotely close in the 'search results' page that you can sift through. I don't think those few, remote advantage merits the time investment --

Of course, I really am just blathering about time investment. If you guys want to do everything and blast your own time on it without wasting any of Ralle's or whatever, then go ahead. However, also be forewarned that having a poorly maintained wiki reflects worse upon a community than having no wiki at all. If you guys don't have anything else to do with your time and would rather maintain a wiki and the forums - and can do it effectively - then do so with my blessing. You're right, it can't hurt anything if it's done right. However, if you're not willing to invest the time, you will only be hurting the site's reputation by having it take on things it cannot support.

 

[Pyritie]

Not to be a damper on the idea, but social groups don't even have categories yet.

Mmyes.

Rising_Dusk does have a point Elenai, but still, searching for anything here is a huge pain, really.

If you don't like vBulletin's search system, use google.

 

[Elenai]

We could replace the tutorial section with a wiki for better access, and perhaps other components that are of a similar sort.

 

[Traxamillion]

I think a wiki is an ok idea, its pretty much pointless, but hell it expands the site even a little, and to be honest gives me something to pass the time.

 

[bounty hunter2]

If you are bored you can always *cough* review maps as a mini mod *cough*.

No seriously, it expands the site, and I'm sure it could be properly maintained.

 

[Traxamillion]

Map Section = Cesspool of Fail

no thanks..

 

[Kwah]

We could replace the tutorial section with a wiki for better access, and perhaps other components that are of a similar sort.

I hardly see how that would help. If that's a problem, perhaps we should consider a better formatted tutorial section.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

... Like formatting it as a Wiki instead of a forum?

 

[Hakeem]

However, also be forewarned that having a poorly maintained wiki reflects worse upon a community than having no wiki at all.

I agree. For this reason, I would think it best to have the wiki private for a bit before release.

... Like formatting it as a Wiki instead of a forum?

Precisely. There are some things best done as threads, some best done as social groups, some best done as forums, and some best done as wikis.


However, we haven't managed to categorize the social groups yet. This does not give me hope for a wiki at this point in time.

 

[Elenai]

Social Groups are...if I am correct...soon to be indisposed >.>

(thus not alot of focus on their part)

 

[Aeroblyctos]

The problem with social groups is that you won't get any message or anything if new post is posted there. That's why for example I always forgot to watch what's going on there.

If we are going to do Wiki, can we write about each other? That would be the most interesting part what I will write about someone else... Or someone write about me!

 

[Bob27]

I think that a wiki could be a good idea, it just depends how well it is used and maintained.

And like Teh_Ephy said, it might help with people just creating a new thread without searching for the answer first.

 

[Pyritie]

The problem with social groups is that you won't get any message or anything if new post is posted there. That's why for example I always forgot to watch what's going on there.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/groupsubscription.php

User CP > Social Groups > Bottom of page

 

[Rui]

You and Elenai were both implying that the HIVEChan wiki started out as somewhat useful before it turned to parodying or insulting THW users.

I thought it was a useful wiki, I think I even wrote an article there, until I looked at the others and found what it really was.

Specifically for the case of this site's purpose as it currently is, there is little that can be accomplished by a wiki that cannot be accomplished by a forum. If Ralle really wants biographies, he can make a forum for it that people can submit a single thread to about themselves. Petition for that if it's what you want, not for a wiki.

Yes, but it is still not as organized as a Wiki would be.
And think about it, you cannot interlink through things like you would with a Wiki.

We could replace the tutorial section with a wiki for better access, and perhaps other components that are of a similar sort.

I did not have the tutorials in mind. But sure, if their authors allow it to be posted there, why not?


On a hurry, bye!

 

[~Void~]

The only reasons I see for a wiki are these:

- Searchability.
- Tutorials, or articles on various aspects of modding. For example, if you look up "Knockback" in the wiki, you would find a page on how to make a knockback system, or several links to various systems. If you look up "Terraining" you would find terrain tutorials and some links to various threads like the Legendary thread and the UTM thread.

 

[Hawkwing]

The only reasons I see for a wiki are these:

- Searchability.
- Tutorials, or articles on various aspects of modding. For example, if you look up "Knockback" in the wiki, you would find a page on how to make a knockback system, or several links to various systems. If you look up "Terraining" you would find terrain tutorials and some links to various threads like the Legendary thread and the UTM thread.

I'd approve of that sort of stuff, but I don't want all that Lord of the Rings crap on there.

If you want that then go here, or something.