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What if God..

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EXACTLY

that is why i believe we do not theoretically exist...


but then again... what did god come from? You can't just say he was there... you can't just be there.... And if he cannot be created, then he certainly did not just pop up out of nowhere...


How could he possibly been there forever without a creator or being there?
Why do we believe in him if Jesus thought of him, and yet so many long years earlier we believed in like... a lot more gods (and goddesses) at once.



And if you want my theory of the universe then here it is as so:

Black and White holes are the garbage disposals of the universe. Black holes suck in trash, white hols spew them out. I think that once you reach the end of the universe, you get pulled by a gravitational sort of thing into a circle, meaning... You go in an entire circle, kinda thinking the universe is round... that's just my theory of that... not completely planned out...
 
And it's pretty bad logic. Not necessarily everything has to come from something. Only things with a beginning comes from something else. However, the universe is eternal. You could say the universe is above time... it created it in the first place, after all.

1) Everything that has a beginning is created.
2) The universe does not have a beginning.
3) Therefore, the universe is uncreated.

The universe is not known to be finite.
Fixed by your own argument (edits are bolded). Simplest answer is correct, no?

...I make a bowl of cereal...ZOMG! I'm made of Cereal!
No, just... no.
 
By the logic that everything has a cause, God is the un-caused causer, the first cause of this long chain of cause and effect.

Look at it this way, if time is circular, God could be the force keeping it from becoming linear.
 
quick poll, who here has actually READ the bible?


1. if god was a man, which the bible says He is, He would look like jesus because Jesus is God unless ur talking about God the father which i imagine would look like gandalf the white. And to me, the Holy Ghost just looks like a ball of light.

2. If He was a woman, he'd be very pretty. Or a ball of light. Or Jesus.

3. Then the bible wouldn't exist, the dark age knights would have nothing to control them, and barbarians would be running around everywhere looting and pillaging. Same goes for muslims and jews.


And there's no such thing as a white hole otherwise we would be able to see it :P. Black holes are just balls that are very dense and has a large amount of gravity therefore sucking shit in and compacting it. The wormhole theory is just a "what if" and most people believe if u get sucked into a black hole, u'll get crushed.


Another thing, why is it that the big bang theory can't fit into the Christian belief? Maybe God was bored and decided to put a lighter underneath a balloon filled with hydrogen. And the whole 7 days thing could be metaphorical. Read Revelations, that book wasn't translated too well.
 
Another thing, why is it that the big bang theory can't fit into the Christian belief? Maybe God was bored and decided to put a lighter underneath a balloon filled with hydrogen. And the whole 7 days thing could be metaphorical. Read Revelations, that book wasn't translated too well.

Exactly my point. BigBang is highly possible. The bible even talks of God 'spreading the heavens'. The Heavens include space you know :)
 
It has been my firm belief for some time now that the moral of the story is the important part, not the details. When some of the details can be deciphered out of metaphor, or out of obscure diction into fact, that's cool too.

Another thing, why is it that the big bang theory can't fit into the Christian belief? Maybe God was bored and decided to put a lighter underneath a balloon filled with hydrogen. And the whole 7 days thing could be metaphorical. Read Revelations, that book wasn't translated too well.
I agree on both counts. A spec literally smaller than the space between your fingers when you hold them together, and then it explodes into the entire universe. That always has and always will sound like an act of God to me.
 
When God created the earth and all in it, Man was sin free, God told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge and they didn't, But then, the devil somehow convinced this sin-free person who is perfect and can't commit a sin, to commit one, how does that work?

What if god created our planet, got bored of it, left and made another one? Would that mean that their are aliens?
 
Simplest answer is correct, no?
So far as I can tell, the universe is embedded in time. You can try to prove me wrong, but first you'll have to catch me!
What if god created our planet, got bored of it, left and made another one? Would that mean that their are aliens?
Being omnipotent means you know your own actions. He knew exactly what he was creating when he created the cosmos. He would not make something that he knew would grow boring.
 
Nope. I know... I sense... Really! IF GOD EXIST, WHY ARE WE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's called free will, a choise.
The universe, however, is known to be finite.
That has not been proven.
If the universe was infinite it would mean time had to be infinite too. If time was infinite we would never have reached the point we now are in.
but then again... what did god come from? You can't just say he was there... you can't just be there
Actually you can if God exists outside of time.
What if God didn't exist?
This youtube channel would propably not exist.
 
Dreadnought[dA];1036024 said:
Maybe God created the universe and scientists are making up the big bang theory to try and explain creation? That's why it's called a *theory* they can't prove it. The only real evidence they have is dark matter/energy. Oh and did I mention those are just theories too that they hope the hadron collider can explain.
It's about time I unloaded on a research-deficient dipshit from the other end of the spectrum, I was starting to look pretty hardcore religious. For anything to become a scientific theory, it needs to have massive amounts of independent testing and evidence to back it up. This is not the first time I have explained that, I am not the only person to have explained that to people, and I am not the only person to have explained that more than once. Gravity is only a theory, because the mechanics by which it work have yet to be proven. Electromagnetism is only a theory. The way stars form, the way scientists are able to triangulate the epicentre of an earthquake, the way scientists know what the earth is made of, the structure of an atom? All theories.

Being omnipotent means you know your own actions. He knew exactly what he was creating when he created the cosmos. He would not make something that he knew would grow boring.
Unless S/He/It was creating it for different reasons than entertainment. Like because S/He/It wubs us <3
 
Dreadnought[dA];1036024 said:
Maybe God created the universe and scientists are making up the big bang theory to try and explain creation? That's why it's called a *theory* they can't prove it. The only real evidence they have is dark matter/energy. Oh and did I mention those are just theories too that they hope the hadron collider can explain.

Not Just a Theory Read it.

(It's made for evolution but it works well for any sort of "oh it's just a theory" case.)
 
*Ahem* Adults with imaginary friends are stupid. PERIOD!

Children should be seen, not heard.

Listen! I think this -
1. If God exist, nothing can prove that.
2. If God does not exist, nothing can prove that.

Congratulations, you've opened your mind a wee bit.

ehm, actually, wouldnt god be "provable" if he appeared and proved to us that he was god?

All things in due time.
 
Where's the proof for evolution?

Well, for one, we can observe it happening all around us...

Second, we know that life tends towards complexity and order, as it increases efficiency and thus survival (survival of the fittest, anyone)?

Evolution is pretty hard to debate. If anything, the part to attack is the "where did life come from" question - there are some pretty solid theories, but none of them are as developed as evolution is.
 
Where's the proof for evolution?

Ever taken biology? Evolution is one of biology's core principles.

Especially once you keep in mind that every single species of every single organism on this entire planet has exactly the same genetic code and methods of reading and interpreting said code.

Now that isn't just coincidence.
 
Well, for one, we can observe it happening all around us...

We can also observe gene manipulation. Humans mutate inferior species, and with time, we will be able to create totally new ones. What if God did the same too?

Second, we know that life tends towards complexity and order, as it increases efficiency and thus survival (survival of the fittest, anyone)?

How did the first cell know it had to consume another? And how was that cell created? I don't think scientists can give valid explenations on that with proper proof supplied. Yes, evolution is well detailed, but they can't give explenation on a lot of things, intelligence for example or simply instinct.

Especially once you keep in mind that every single species of every single organism on this entire planet has exactly the same genetic code and methods of reading and interpreting said code.

That might be because we're from the same author.
 
Where's the proof for evolution?

Well, for one, we can observe it happening all around us...

Second, we know that life tends towards complexity and order, as it increases efficiency and thus survival (survival of the fittest, anyone)?

Evolution is pretty hard to debate. If anything, the part to attack is the "where did life come from" question - there are some pretty solid theories, but none of them are as developed as evolution is.
I've heard that there are plenty of flaws in evolution, especially Dawrin's theory. I don't know much on the subject, so I'll just leave it at that. If you know anything about this Poot, please inform us.
 
EXACTLY

that is why i believe we do not theoretically exist...


but then again... what did god come from? You can't just say he was there... you can't just be there.... And if he cannot be created, then he certainly did not just pop up out of nowhere...


How could he possibly been there forever without a creator or being there?
Why do we believe in him if Jesus thought of him, and yet so many long years earlier we believed in like... a lot more gods (and goddesses) at once.



And if you want my theory of the universe then here it is as so:

Black and White holes are the garbage disposals of the universe. Black holes suck in trash, white hols spew them out. I think that once you reach the end of the universe, you get pulled by a gravitational sort of thing into a circle, meaning... You go in an entire circle, kinda thinking the universe is round... that's just my theory of that... not completely planned out...

This is something I have a hard time with also, but the fact is you have to put faith into something if you want a belief.

But maybe no one needed to create God for he already existed. Maybe God is made of some material that has been around forever, never fatigues, and never decomposes.
 
We can also observe gene manipulation. Humans mutate inferior species, and with time, we will be able to create totally new ones. What if God did the same too?
That has nothing to do with the argument, and you don't provide any basis for your theory. My point was that there is observable proof of evolution in our time, and thus plenty of evidence that it is highly likely the way we came about.

How did the first cell know it had to consume another? And how was that cell created? I don't think scientists can give valid explenations on that with proper proof supplied. Yes, evolution is well detailed, but they can't give explenation on a lot of things, intelligence for example or simply instinct.
  • The first part of your comment here has absolutely nothing to do with evolution here.
  • Beyond that, it makes the incredibly wrong supposition that since something has not been proven, making up shit is valid.
  • Thirdly, there are plenty of very good theories. I suggest you watch this video. It's backed by logic rather that faith - another plus.
  • Evolution does not attempt to explain intelligence or instinct's bases, and thus it obviously doesn't. That's like asking the Law of Gravity to tell you what colour the sky is.

That might be because we're from the same author.
How does that follow? An intelligent designer would tailor each species in such a way that it was more effective, no?

I've heard that there are plenty of flaws in evolution, especially Dawrin's theory. I don't know much on the subject, so I'll just leave it at that. If you know anything about this Poot, please inform us.
I can't defend against arguments which you don't provide. Beyond that, I'm not evolutionary biologist, so I can't promise my answers will be the best they can. Finally, I'd just like to point out that even the Vatican accepts evolution nowadays, and that it has no conflict with their faith - it's only the really radical (idiots, if you read their work) types such as Ray Comfort (and his coworker Kirk Cameron) who continue to deny its existence.

This is something I have a hard time with also, but the fact is you have to put faith into something if you want a belief.

But maybe no one needed to create God for he already existed. Maybe God is made of some material that has been around forever, never fatigues, and never decomposes.
You could argue the same about the universe itself. This argument has been done to death and isn't particularly informative or interesting.
 
1. If God exist, nothing can prove that.
2. If God does not exist, nothing can prove that.
If we take that approach, any talk about it is pointless because it is impossible to prove either way.

So we should give up because we don't know? Can you imagine how far people would have never come if they gave up when they did not know?
(survival of the fittest, anyone)?
I'm more into "Death of the weakest."
Ever taken biology? Evolution is one of biology's core principles.
Evolution is a subset of biology. A very specific subset. It is far from being a core part.
Evolution is pretty hard to debate. If anything, the part to attack is the "where did life come from" question - there are some pretty solid theories, but none of them are as developed as evolution is.
Wait. You opened that door?
How did the first cell know it had to consume another? And how was that cell created? I don't think scientists can give valid explenations on that with proper proof supplied. Yes, evolution is well detailed, but they can't give explenation on a lot of things, intelligence for example or simply instinct.
You'll have to forgive Poot, evolution does not describe how life came into existence. Evolution is a theory on the effects of when preexisting life makes more life. Evolution requires that life already exists.
What if he was married?
Mr. and Mrs. ...God?
That'd be interesting. o.O
It's backed by logic rather that faith
Faith is merely logic you do not consciously understand.
How does that follow? An intelligent designer would tailor each species in such a way that it was more effective, no?
Do you presume to have omniscient knowledge of biology?
I'd say life is plenty effective, no?
You could argue the same about the universe itself.
For every piece of matter and energy in the universe at this exact moment, I ask you this: Where was it before that?

Of course, you then explain to me the exact location of everything at the previous instant of time. I then ask you where everything was before that. You answer. I ask the same for your answer. This continues for lengths of time incalculably beyond comprehension.

If you eventually say, "I already told you," that would mean time repeats, or there exists a stage in the past at which time stands still. I see no reason for a repeating time line to be the entire cosmos. If time collapses to a standstill, then what changed it was something outside of this universe. If you require time to be a measure of change, then when time reaches a point in the past of absolutely no change, your answer of, "I already told you," changes to, "Nothing." Maybe you can always give a different answer. However, time moves one way. There must always be a previous frame of time, and to stretch that to infinity in the past would make this moment of time impossible to reach, because infinite time must pass to reach the present, which is impossible since infinity is not a value you can reach.

These are merely different ways of visualizing the same concept: Our universe is not the complete set known as the cosmos.

Unless you can give an explanation of the creation of our universe that does not defy the physics that bind this universe, I am forced to conclude that our universe was created externally.

The Earth is no more the center of the solar system than our solar system is the center of galaxy. Our galaxy is not the center of the universe. Why should the universe be the center of the cosmos?

The question then becomes, "How is it that the cosmos exists?" Of course, we can never be sure that we have captured the complete set of the cosmos, so to ask this scientifically is useless. As Shados said:
If you do not accept that the universe simply is, then that property is merely shifted to whatever prime cause you name.
The universe, as we know it, in order to not break physics, must have a cause, and to know whether that cause is intelligent or not, is far beyond our abilities. To know whether this cause has another cause is beyond our abilities.

Simplest answer is usually correct, no? To take that to a cosmic level, the simplest cosmos would be one that does not exist. This is the default. This is what must be the case. There is no reason for it to be everything or anything at all.

And yet, here we are.

Why is the cosmos not nothing? I have only found a single logical answer.
This argument has been done to death and isn't particularly informative or interesting.
A cosmos beyond us? That is certainly uninteresting.
 
evolution is where species change over time to adapt to their surroundings and if they are unable to successfully, they become extinct which is what Natural Selection is all about. Now we all know that a primate the size of a human being would easily overpower a human in a physical struggle (except for Navy Seals). So if we were monkeys, why did we evolve out of so many useful things, especially in ancient times? Stronger arms and legs, a tail, stronger teeth and jaws, i really doubt that ancient people had access to guns and cleavers. And why would apes just drop from the tree and decide to walk if they really don't need to?
Also, the reason people think that monkeys are related to humans and that we evolved from them is from the remains of the neanderthals and the like and comparing the DNA. We all know that they are very similar, but what if they weren't humans? Apes of today have DNA that is alike ours but we are very different and can be considered different races. This could mean that the other cave men were a seperate race and that we don't really have enough proof to say that evolution is fact, which is why its a theory of evolution.

Here's another thing i noticed, evolution neither proves or disproves the existence of God. The bible can fit in with evolution since it doesn't say exactly how it all happened in the bible and evolutionists can also say that it can't coexist therefore there is no God. You get my meaning?

Both Science and Religion has pretty solid backgrounds and can coexist, contradict, and can also be flawed. I'm not saying either of them are wrong, just that they're like ur left hand and your right hand.
 
Wait. You opened that door?
I'd rather have my opponents launch valid criticisms than nonsensical ones.

You'll have to forgive Poot, evolution does not describe how life came into existence. Evolution is a theory on the effects of when preexisting life makes more life. Evolution requires that life already exists.
That's been my point all along...

Faith is merely logic you do not consciously understand.
Not according to many of the faithful.

Do you presume to have omniscient knowledge of biology?
I'd say life is plenty effective, no?
There are major "bugs" in organisms which I can't see a perfect designer as leaving (a random example, the tubes in your ears to equalize pressure are not particularly functional).

<Lots of text>
Or that our conception of Physics is wrong at the moment, as it only works within the scope of our current space and time (Think Newtonian Mechanics vs Relativity, for example).

A cosmos beyond us? That is certainly uninteresting.
Not with the tools we have to debate it.

<Long first part about apes/men>
Intelligence is a huge advantage.

Here's another thing i noticed, evolution neither proves or disproves the existence of God. The bible can fit in with evolution since it doesn't say exactly how it all happened in the bible and evolutionists can also say that it can't coexist therefore there is no God. You get my meaning?
Everyone already says that...

Both Science and Religion has pretty solid backgrounds and can coexist, contradict, and can also be flawed. I'm not saying either of them are wrong, just that they're like ur left hand and your right hand.
Pretty solid backgrounds in religion? I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. No one has shown me any pretty solid backgrounds to date (except perhaps Hakeem's reasoning, and he doesn't really conform to the beliefs of any specific religion in my experience).
 
Pretty solid backgrounds in religion? I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. No one has shown me any pretty solid backgrounds to date (except perhaps Hakeem's reasoning, and he doesn't really conform to the beliefs of any specific religion in my experience).

Well if you don't believe i see no reason in arguing this any further.


Everyone already says that
Excuse me for not taking an hour to read 9 pages of posts to come up with an argument.

Intelligence is a huge advantage.
But what can you really do with intelligence (and they weren't really THAT smart) in a primitive world? You can make spears and traps but in the end, you would still use strength. You really can't do anything with intelligence that would make strength obsolete or at least not as necessary as other things in those times. And by the time humans were making tools and domesticating animals, they had already changed enough to be close to the modern human.


God is a fart in a sock and we all dealt it.

YEA PRETTY DEEP HUH

ur saying God smells like ass? That's very disrespectful to religion.
 
There are major "bugs" in organisms which I can't see a perfect designer as leaving (a random example, the tubes in your ears to equalize pressure are not particularly functional).

...I like giving my characters flaws...it makes them interesting.

Pretty solid backgrounds in religion? I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. No one has shown me any pretty solid backgrounds to date (except perhaps Hakeem's reasoning, and he doesn't really conform to the beliefs of any specific religion in my experience).

It is easy to ignore the brick wall behind the small, fragile, and yet rather bright torch flame that hangs upon it.
 
Well if you don't believe i see no reason in arguing this any further.
So if I think, then it goes outside the scope of your argument? I can't think of a better way to express my point than that sentence.

Excuse me for not taking an hour to read 9 pages of posts to come up with an argument.
So if you admit you have nothing to contribute, then why contribute at all?

But what can you really do with intelligence (and they weren't really THAT smart) in a primitive world? You can make spears and traps but in the end, you would still use strength. You really can't do anything with intelligence that would make strength obsolete or at least not as necessary as other things in those times. And by the time humans were making tools and domesticating animals, they had already changed enough to be close to the modern human.
Spears and traps are huge advantages, as shown by the fact that we survived as a species. As much as you may be in denial that we were once primitive animals, archaeological evidence supports this (the same evidence - or in their view lack thereof - most young-earth creationists use to attempt to disprove evolution).

...I like giving my characters flaws...it makes them interesting.
Then give them interesting flaws (like uncontrollable love) rather than stupid ones (like shitty pressure equalization)?

It is easy to ignore the brick wall behind the small, fragile, and yet rather bright torch flame that hangs upon it.
I could perhaps respect your view more if you used more evidence and less meaningless metaphors...
 
Then give them interesting flaws (like uncontrollable love) rather than stupid ones (like shitty pressure equalization)?

Of course, and I also know that usually...mankind is meant to stay on the ground. Where pressure is normal. Why give him equipment he doesn't really need?

I could perhaps respect your view more if you used more evidence and less meaningless metaphors...

They are only meaningless, if you are completely clueless to the concept. My metaphors are not just for you, they are for me, and future readers of this thread, if they should so read it. Likewise I would respect your view more, if you would spread your thought a little bit, and try to perceive what is being said...it isn't that hard....

It is hard to see the solid foundation, when you are focused on a very, fragile, minute, and yet loud, minority.

Religion has provided a solid foundation for society to function for eons, more so than science ever did. Take a look at the ancient cultures, and see how spiritual leaders kept order amongst the families. Families that had to depend on one another, for everything.

purple, just curious, why are u getting so mad over this? Everything you say seem to be condescending and aggressive.

Because it is easy to be aggressive, and to dismiss something as unfit, or meaningless, if you don't have an answer to rebuttal with.
 
purple, just curious, why are u getting so mad over this? Everything you say seem to be condescending and aggressive.
People repeating the same old tired arguments then bailing when I respond to them is getting old.

Of course, and I also know that usually...mankind is meant to stay on the ground. Where pressure is normal. Why give him equipment he doesn't really need?
Then why give them pressure equalization at all?

<Metaphor stuff>
I'm not criticizing your use of metaphors. I'm criticizing your use of only metaphors.

Your last post (not the one I am quoting, the one before it) basically said "it is easy to miss the darker but existent knowledge with the smaller bit evident," without making indication of what said darker knowledge was or why I should believe it. As such, the metaphor is meaningless.

<Family stuff>
Religion has dominated society in the past, yes, and so have periods like the Inquisition and the Dark Ages. You say that it's hard for people like me to understand people like you due to the fundies getting in the way; I agree. Deal with them - they're part of your religion, after all. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Then why give them pressure equalization at all?

Because...you still need it at ground level?

I'm not criticizing your use of metaphors. I'm criticizing your use of only metaphors.

I don't use 'just' metaphors.

Your last post (not the one I am quoting, the one before it) basically said "it is easy to miss the darker but existent knowledge with the smaller bit evident," without making indication of what said darker knowledge was or why I should believe it. As such, the metaphor is meaningless.

But it isn't...You don't notice the solid foundation religion is based on, when you see a very fragile, and unstable, loud, voice.

Christianity > TV Evengelists

Christianity has a very solid background, history shows this. It has provided mankind with all sorts of things, the very driving force of western civilization...and yet...you focus on the stupidity of a few idiots, who say:

"BE HEALED! GET OUT OF HEEEEM SAAATAN!!! Donate NOW! AND RECIEVE DA BLESSINZ OF CHRAAAEST!"

the above was an example of a non-metaphor

Religion has dominated society in the past, yes, and so have periods like the Inquisition and the Dark Ages. You say that it's hard for people like me to understand people like you due to the fundies getting in the way; I agree. Deal with them - they're part of your religion, after all. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I am dealing with them. I accept their existence. But it falls not only on the Christian speaking, but the listener also, to look beyond the TV pulpit, and into the broader spectrum.
 
Because...you still need it at ground level?
Then why not give them good pressure equalization which is no harder to implement? You're going in circles.

I don't use 'just' metaphors.
In your other post you did, and yet criticized me for not accepting it.

But it isn't...You don't notice the solid foundation religion is based on, when you see a very fragile, and unstable, loud, voice.

Christianity > TV Evengelists

Christianity has a very solid background, history shows this. It has provided mankind with all sorts of things, the very driving force of western civilization...and yet...you focus on the stupidity of a few idiots, who say:

"BE HEALED! GET OUT OF HEEEEM SAAATAN!!! Donate NOW! AND RECIEVE DA BLESSINZ OF CHRAAAEST!"

the above was an example of a non-metaphor
It is your responsibility entirely. If you identify yourself by the same book and beliefs as these evangelists, you cannot say you are different. To practice Christianity is to practice Christianity, and their beliefs are a different interpretation of the same bases.

I am dealing with them. I accept their existence. But it falls not only on the Christian speaking, but the listener also, to look beyond the TV pulpit, and into the broader spectrum.
I do look into the broader spectrum, or I wouldn't be bothering to debate this in the first place (those evangelists lack the ability to reason let alone debate), but I don't see why you think that you can pick all of the good that comes out of your religion and leave out the bad.

Yes, I admit religion is a wonderful thing for society so long as you only consider the parts of it that are wonderful for society.
 
Then why not give them good pressure equalization which is no harder to implement? You're going in circles.

...How am I going in circles?

In your other post you did, and yet criticized me for not accepting it.

When I use metaphors, it doesn't take much to know what it means. I don't use 'just metaphors' either. So...I don't really see the problem, other than you are having trouble rebutting them...

It is your responsibility entirely. If you identify yourself by the same book and beliefs as these evangelists, you cannot say you are different. To practice Christianity is to practice Christianity, and their beliefs are a different interpretation of the same bases.

It is a teacher's responsibility to teach, it is a student's to listen, and learn.

I do look into the broader spectrum, or I wouldn't be bothering to debate this in the first place (those evangelists lack the ability to reason let alone debate), but I don't see why you think that you can pick all of the good that comes out of your religion and leave out the bad.

But I'm not just going with the good...I know about the inquisition...I haven't forgotten it.

Yes, I admit religion is a wonderful thing for society so long as you only consider the parts of it that are wonderful for society.

Science is also a wonderful thing for society, so long as you only consider the parts of it that are wonderful for society.
 
...How am I going in circles?
When I said if it matters he should have made it work, you say it doesn't matter. When I say then he shouldn't have added it, you say it matters.

When I use metaphors, it doesn't take much to know what it means. I don't use 'just metaphors' either. So...I don't really see the problem, other than you are having trouble rebutting them...
But it takes much to know how it's valid.

It is a teacher's responsibility to teach, it is a student's to listen, and learn.
And it's a teacher's responsibility to take responsibility for their teachings.

But I'm not just going with the good...I know about the inquisition...I haven't forgotten it.
And yet you separate that from christianity today, saying they were corrupt and not truly christian.

Science is also a wonderful thing for society, so long as you only consider the parts of it that are wonderful for society.
Science doesn't try to call itself good - it is said that it is amoral. That's the difference.

(Also, what does religion have to do with science again? I was under the impression everyone sane agrees the two are not mutually exclusive...)
 
When I said if it matters he should have made it work, you say it doesn't matter. When I say then he shouldn't have added it, you say it matters.

You don't need an advanced pressure system for a creature that stays at ground level...you do need a basic one...I did not go around in circles.

But it takes much to know how it's valid.

Not really...

And it's a teacher's responsibility to take responsibility for their teachings.

And...I am not doing that? If so...elaborate.

And yet you separate that from christianity today, saying they were corrupt and not truly christian.

I used to, I have since altered my thought:

The Church was corrupt, and the inquisition/crusades did have Christian ideals. But alot of it was political at its root. I am however, still aware of the negatives of my faith's history. I accept them, and look at myself, and gladly I can say, I am a Christian, I have never burned anyone at the stake.

What one Christian does with his faith...is not the burden of another.

Science doesn't try to call itself good - it is said that it is amoral. That's the difference.

Scientists however, are not entirely prone to this thought.

"For the good of science, and mankind."

(Also, what does religion have to do with science again? I was under the impression everyone sane agrees the two are not mutually exclusive...)

They are not mutually exclusive...they are however under the same burden of negatives as Religions are, that is all I am saying.
 
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You don't need an advanced pressure system for a creature that stays at ground level...you do need a basic one...I did not go around in circles.
There's a difference between complex and functional. Often the most basic things perform better than complex ones.

Not really...
Judging by the number of people who don't know what the heck you're on about, yes really.

And...I am not doing that? If so...elaborate.
You can't pick and choose which christians count. If someone identifies themselves as a christian, they are a christian.

I used to, I have since altered my thought:

The Church was corrupt, and the inquisition/crusades did have Christian ideals. But alot of it was political at its root. I am however, still aware of the negatives of my faith's history. I accept them, and look at myself, and gladly I can say, I am a Christian, I have never burned anyone at the stake.

What one Christian does with his faith...is not the burden of another.
The fact that the faith accommodates that is.

Scientists however, are not entirely prone to this thought.

"For the good of science, and mankind."
Then they're in for a rude awakening.
 
There's a difference between complex and functional. Often the most basic things perform better than complex ones.

What...your natural pressure gauge doesn't work? Make a new one.

Judging by the number of people who don't know what the heck you're on about, yes really.

Everyone I've asked seems to understand them just fine :/ except you and Vegavak, and who ever else will decide to jump on the bandwagon for what ever reason that most likely has nothing to even do with the debate.

You can't pick and choose which christians count. If someone identifies themselves as a christian, they are a christian.

When did I pick and choose?

The fact that the faith accommodates that is.

Care to elaborate?

Then they're in for a rude awakening.

Welcome to being human.
 
What...your natural pressure gauge doesn't work? Make a new one.
Last time I checked, I'm not an all-powerful being.

Everyone I've asked seems to understand them just fine :/ except you and Vegavak.
Because the rest don't bother to tell you...

When did I pick and choose?
Saying, for example, that you can't base christianity on the actions of the TV evangelicals, and that you have to interpret different parts of the bible differently.

Care to elaborate?
The fact that they quite accurately draw their conclusions from the bible (or another text for those of other religions).

Welcome to being human.
So being human justifies you saying whatever you want?
 
Last time I checked, I'm not an all-powerful being.

You have tools...use them.

Saying, for example, that you can't base christianity on the actions of the TV evangelicals, and that you have to interpret different parts of the bible differently.

...And...stating a fact is picking and choosing how?

The fact that they quite accurately draw their conclusions from the bible (or another text for those of other religions).

And? What one Christian does with his faith, is not the burden of another...his faith includes the Bible.

So being human justifies you saying whatever you want?

...eh...no...where exactly did you get that out of what I said?
 
You have tools...use them.
Not to redesign the body.

...And...stating a fact is picking and choosing how?
How is it a fact?

And? What one Christian does with his faith, is not the burden of another...his faith includes the Bible.
Then the bible is meaningless as it is subjective.

...eh...no...where exactly did you get that out of what I said?
That they spew bullshit (deluded or not) and yet it's tolerated because they are human?
 
Not to redesign the body.

If you can replace a knee...

How is it a fact?

Its a fact because...you can't represent an entire anything by only one minute part?

A cog != a clock...that's a fact...

Then the bible is meaningless as it is subjective.

No...That is like saying atomic theory is subjective and meaningless, because someone makes a nuke out of it, and another discovers cold fusion energy...and neither guy is at fault for what the other guy did...

That they spew bullshit (deluded or not) and yet it's tolerated because they are human?

Not what I was saying at all...

Everything humans have contact with, are inevitably, bound to be used either for 'good' or for 'evil'...A Medical Scientist doesn't discover a cure...for the mere sake of it...he does it for 'the good'.
 
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