What if God..

[Pyritie]

Evil isn't the polar opposite of good.

Darkness is the absence of light. Dark is not a created thing.

Read Paradise Lost, I'm sure you'll like it.

It is easy to post something without a backbone. Words are cheap.

Sometimes less is more. No need to make a wall of text as a rebuttal.

 

[PurplePoot]

Oh, and El, if you don't understand why that metaphor fails, it's because well-coded stuff does not spawn bugs. Therefore, either god is incompetent or evil. Take your pick.

The old argument goes:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus (341-270 BC)​

 

[TheBlooddancer]

I go for non-existant, and thus doesn't know what he/she/it is "doing".

 

[Elenai]

But he is all-powerful, no? In which case he did, since he caused everything.

Read the OT.

It is obviously your dad's fault that you cut a random man in half and raped his face when you are 21 years old just because you simply got mad at the guy when he looked at you funny, even after you were raised in a perfectly normal childhood.

Because the people are still there.

Free will. And they die, go figure.

The details do. Do you want that link?

Right, because whether or not the colour of a beetle was orange or red matters so much when the point is that it is a beetle. And I've already seen the link.

No, it hasn't, and no, you don't.

Do atheists believe in spirits?

I'm acting as if your metaphors definitely don't work and you are most likely wrong.

Backbone.

That has nothing to do with confirmation bias. It is also a horribly biased metaphor; you assume you already know the answer.

It would be like seeing something you have never seen before and then guessing at how to react.

Your opinion on the metaphor: backbone.

It is more like guessing at how to react with a person that I've been a penpal with.

Last time I checked, the universe is not a rubber band.

Same principles apply.

A patch which no one knows how to download because they have a bunch of nutjobs ranting contradictory stories at them and are brainwashed at birth.

I just love it how I'm always wrong about faiths, and you are always right, l.o.l sarcasm.

On a different point, people do know how to download the thing. It isn't like God is making you jump through hoops, just say a simple repentant prayer, and accept Christ, Basic Christianity.

And you haven't actually done the calculations, just put your finger on a random field out of tens of thousands of choices and assumed it looked cool so it must be right.

Wrong.

Ever read exodus?

yes.

If I need to make myself into an ignorant fool to see god, then I'll gladly decline your offer.

Now that is just downright pissy, stereotypical, and rude of you to say. You are completely wrong.

He makes you evil so you deserve the punishment?

He doesn't make you evil, you choose to be evil by your own decisions.

Read Paradise Lost, I'm sure you'll like it.

Is not a theological work, neither is Dante's work.

Sometimes less is more. No need to make a wall of text as a rebuttal.

It is easy to be spineless if you don't have any vertebrae to back up your limp comeback.

Oh, and El, if you don't understand why that metaphor fails, it's because well-coded stuff does not spawn bugs. Therefore, either god is incompetent or evil. Take your pick.

It was an illustration...not a technical manual on C++.

The old argument goes:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Free will, he has a plan.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

He has a plan, and is acting. He has also enacted the main phase, and beaten evil for those who want to be good.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Our own hands produce evil.

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Because he is willing, able, has acted, is still acting, and is God.

And if you are responsible for creating everything and omit light in half the places, you are responsible for the fact that it's dark.

God created everything as 'good'. It fell because something that was once good, abused his free will, and perverted the world of 'good'.

The house was filled with 'light', and in some rooms the lights were turned off. God is going about and turning them back on.

You assume that God is just sitting on his righteous butt twiddling his thumbs as people do evil, and all just because you don't see some miraculous ball of fire come down and strike your childhood bully when he picks on you, or some bolt of lightning kill a rapist in the act.

He is working in the world, he has a plan, he is acting, he is going to punish unrepentant persons, and he is willing, and able, and is stopping evil, in perfect balance with the gift of free will to chose him or yourself.

 

[PurplePoot]

It is obviously your dad's fault that you cut a random man in half and raped his face when you are 21 years old just because you simply got mad at the guy when he looked at you funny, even after you were raised in a perfectly normal childhood.

Last time I checked, my dad isn't all powerful and didn't create the universe.

Free will. And they die, go figure.

Then god allows for and promotes evil, if evil is deviating from god's will.

Right, because whether or not the colour of a beetle was orange or red matters so much when the point is that it is a beetle. And I've already seen the link.

The point is if you can't get your facts straight, you're probably making it up.

Do atheists believe in spirits?

Some believe in spiritual experience.

Backbone.

I have explained why, you just respond saying they don't need to be perfect.

Your opinion on the metaphor: backbone.

It is more like guessing at how to react with a person that I've been a penpal with.

It is not my opinion that the metaphor is wrong. It's fact. See my comments.

Same principles apply.

No, they do not. The farther it stretches, the less likely it is to rebound.

I just love it how I'm always wrong about faiths, and you are always right, l.o.l sarcasm.

On a different point, people do know how to download the thing. It isn't like God is making you jump through hoops, just say a simple repentant prayer, and accept Christ, Basic Christianity.

Islam. Buddhism. Hindu. Judaism. Nordic faith. The list goes on.

Wrong.

Then back yourself up.

yes.

God made the egyptians evil so he could show off. "I will make the pharoah stubborn and refuse."

Now that is just downright pissy, stereotypical, and rude of you to say. You are completely wrong.

You are denying basic logic and scientific fact in your arguments.

He doesn't make you evil, you choose to be evil by your own decisions.

See exodus and such. Also, if he gives you free will and doing anything other than what he says = evil, he is basically saying "here, be evil".

It was an illustration...not a technical manual on C++.

And the illustration was wrong.

<free will>

If by exercizing free will you are abusing it, then god is basically asking you to abuse it.

 

[Elenai]

Last time I checked, my dad isn't all powerful and didn't create the universe.

He did bring you into the world however.

Then god allows for and promotes evil, if evil is deviating from god's will.

I don't kill a guy for smoking...do I promote tobacco? No.

The point is if you can't get your facts straight, you're probably making it up.

Do you even know what the Bible is?

Some believe in spiritual experience.

some.

I have explained why, you just respond saying they don't need to be perfect.

Because it doesn't. You are expecting a novelous manual, when I am only trying to describe something that isn't quite in my power.

It is not my opinion that the metaphor is wrong. It's fact. See my comments.

So we are allowed to just call things fact now? And all this time you were yelling at me over the same thing...

No, they do not. The farther it stretches, the less likely it is to rebound.

Then it looks like the universe will snap afterall.

Islam. Buddhism. Hindu. Judaism. Nordic faith. The list goes on.

And I chose Christianity.

God made the egyptians evil so he could show off. "I will make the pharoah stubborn and refuse."

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

You are denying basic logic and scientific fact in your arguments.

Oh really? And how am I doing that?

Do you think I am an ignorant redneck because I believe in God? Who made you High Judge of intelligence?

See exodus and such. Also, if he gives you free will and doing anything other than what he says = evil, he is basically saying "here, be evil".

Answered above.

And the illustration was wrong.

Backbone.

If by exercizing free will you are abusing it, then god is basically asking you to abuse it.

"Here, I give you free will, and a brush. Paint what you will, but I ask that you not paint anything offensive ^_^."

*one man paints a tree*

*another man paints a child*

*yet another man paints a massive yiff orgy of fat hippos in purple thongs dribbling with various sexual fluids, and half the painting is a load of vore.*

"Nice tree, very lovely, I shall buy it. The child is an exquisite work, excellent. Uh....yeah...get out."

*why?*

"Because that is blatantly offensive and I asked you not to do it. Yet you did it anyway."

 

[PurplePoot]

He did bring you into the world however.

But... he isn't... all powerful...

You cannot just draw random parallels and expect them to work.

I don't kill a guy for smoking...do I promote tobacco? No.

But if you were the creator of the universe, you would have created tobacco in the first place.

Do you even know what the Bible is?

A book that makes the ridiculous claim to be the word of god while failing to be consistent.

some.

And thus atheists do not reject spiritual experience; it is an individual decision.

Because it doesn't. You are expecting a novelous manual, when I am only trying to describe something that isn't quite in my power.

Then I'll interpret them in their flawed nature, and you'll complain I am twisting your words. You can't have it both ways.

So we are allowed to just call things fact now? And all this time you were yelling at me over the same thing...

Seeing as you don't even try to deny your metaphors are flawed, I don't see why you are contesting that it is a fact that they are flawed. Pyritie, myself, and others have also demonstrated this even if you disagree.

Then it looks like the universe will snap afterall.

For the last time, the universe is not a rubber band.

And I chose Christianity.

And that does not make it right.

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Yes, he did. He knew beforehand, and he is omnipotent. That alone is causing it.

Oh really? And how am I doing that?

Do you think I am an ignorant redneck because I believe in God? Who made you High Judge of intelligence?

You think the universe is a rubber band. You constantly state your faith is correct without reference to anything but your faith (ie: circular logic). You say others are illogical without explaining how. The list goes on.

Backbone.

I did give you background, and you answered with what I quoted - a mutually exclusive statement to backbone. Then, when I responded to that, you pull out backbone. Surprise! Mutually exclusive statement generate mutually exclusive answers! All you are showing is you have no good defence.

<artists>

But doing anything other than exactly what god tells you to do is considered sinful. That isn't free will.

Also, isn't it convenient how "god's command" seems to line up so often with peoples' own desires?

 

[Gausslander]

Elenai, I agree with you. Backbone. I think the universe is a rubber band. It's going to snap any day now, and the only thing we can do to stop it is to believe in Christ and give up our evil ways of following our instincts. Backbone. Beware actual free will, buy into Christian free will! Now I can be free and do whatever I want, with no consequences -- oh wait... maybe I should stay an atheist.
p.s. Backbone.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

-Epicurus (341-270 BC)[/indent]

You missed it. I responded to some outrageously stupid post along the lines of "WHY DOEZ GOD LET EVIL EXIZT?!!!1????1//!//?/1" with "God allows evil to exist because nobody else will take the time to shut up stupid fucks like you." You know it's true.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I feel like locking this thread and starting a new policy on religion topics. Basically its "STFU about it".

So I will.