What happens after death?

[~Void~]

A simplified and neat description of abiogenesis.

Nice video, and that basically sums it all up, too. The only thing that's really standing in the way of that simple concept being more widely accepted is the fact that people just refuse to believe that their thought processes are chemical reactions, chemistry and physics.

And just to cover my bases here, physics, chemistry and biology are all the same goddamn thing. Biology contains the study of cells and organisms, which originate via chemical reactions, chemistry. Chemistry is all about, well, chemical reactions, which happen due to the charges of the molecules and properties of the atoms, how many protons, neutrons and electrons they have, etc... Physics. Physics also contains the study of thermodynamics and such things, and reactions chemicals (chemistry) and cells (biology) have are partially based on thermodynamics.

Thus the fields of science are all connected, so don't tell me not to argue biology when you're arguing physics, or not to argue physics when you're arguing chemistry. They are all related.

 

[Just_Spectating]

i thought once, that when we die, we go up to heaven, and hang out for as long as you want, but if you want to be reborn, you will forget who you were before and live as some new person with the same personality.

so basically, if you want to live a new, it's your choice.

 

[syltman]

I think that when we die we die... maybe some of our senses and such still works for a while to we'll still feel pain etc...

 

[Gilles]

A simplified and neat description of abiogenesis.

I don't see how that is an argument for the origins of life. What started the first simple cells? Seems like evolution to me. Remember that just because I believe in creation, doesn't mean I deny the possibility of evolution.

I see two explanations to the origins of life.
A) The universe is eternal, infinite.
B) There is a supernatural being(s) that created it. They are eternal.

These are the only two if you believe in cause and effect. If you don't believe in cause and effect, I don't want to discuss further.

 

[PurplePoot]

Gilles, those are simple cells.

I see two explanations to the origins of life.
A) The universe is eternal, infinite.
B) There is a supernatural being(s) that created it. They are eternal.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of life - that has to do with the origin of the universe.

Also, you forgot C) The universe spontaneously came into existence (which could be a subset of B or its own category, since both are possible).

 

[Gilles]

Gilles, those are simple cells.

Huh? What are you referring to here? I never said they weren't?!

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of life - that has to do with the origin of the universe.

Whoa, my bad. Sorry.

But how does it disprove creationism?

Also, you forgot C) The universe spontaneously came into existence (which could be a subset of B or its own category, since both are possible).

I debated whether or not to put that. It seems so unreasonable to me, but you're right it is an option, I should have added it.

 

[Ziggen]

I see two explanations to the origins of life.
A) The universe is eternal, infinite.
B) There is a supernatural being(s) that created it. They are eternal.

One thing about that annoys the hell out of me when I think about it because it can't be possible in any way.
This can be a little hard to understand, but I'll try as good as I can.
Look, when the universe didn't exist, what was here before it? Was it just white/black and nothing in it, spreading for an eternity? And there can't be possible for "nothing" to exist, so what's "behind" the "nothing/white/black" that is growing all the time? It can't be possible for something to never end (in this case the universe and what was before it), and it can't be possible for something to have an end, because if the universe ends, what is behind it? And what's behind that?

It makes no sense and it can't be possible. But there's no answer to it anyway, we'll never find out... At least not as long as I live.

 

[Nudl9]

What happens after death?

Not sure, but heres 2 possibilites:

I'l become a mindless zombie and go eat brains or a necrophili digs up my corpse and uhh...


K but seriously i dont believe in anything special afterlife, so you turn to earth.

 

[PurplePoot]

Huh? What are you referring to here? I never said they weren't?!

What started the first simple cells?

If you are asking about the vesicles talked about, as the video explains they will form spontaneously at a range of pHes. It's simple chemistry - monomers bonding to other monomers.

Whoa, my bad. Sorry.

But how does it disprove creationism?

If this actually occurred, then it would.

I debated whether or not to put that. It seems so unreasonable to me, but you're right it is an option, I should have added it.

An infinitely long lasting Universe and the existence of a deity are both also ridiculous. Let's face it, whatever answer there is to the question, it's ridiculous, at least within our current concept of reality.

 

[Gamervidsman2000]

Im sorry to smack your balls like this not saying i dont belive in haven or hell but you dont even dream your brain is dead it is like you are sleeping in the black for the rest of your life. ("Example: You close your eyes to go to sleep it is dark for 5 seconds then you wake up, i like it when it is like that lol, but any way it is like that but it will go foreva.

But i am not 100% shure if there is a thing called Haven or Hell Err hell dont sound good but any way we wont know.

 

[brad.dude03]

I believe this: My body will decompose, and my matter will return to the universe to be recycled far and wide.

As for my spirit, well, who knows.

 

[Gamervidsman2000]

good to know you have a better thought than me, in the dark not good lol

 

[terradont]

One thing about that annoys the hell out of me when I think about it because it can't be possible in any way.
This can be a little hard to understand, but I'll try as good as I can.
Look, when the universe didn't exist, what was here before it? Was it just white/black and nothing in it, spreading for an eternity? And there can't be possible for "nothing" to exist, so what's "behind" the "nothing/white/black" that is growing all the time? It can't be possible for something to never end (in this case the universe and what was before it), and it can't be possible for something to have an end, because if the universe ends, what is behind it? And what's behind that?

It makes no sense and it can't be possible. But there's no answer to it anyway, we'll never find out... At least not as long as I live.

But then again, if it all started sometime, then before it there should be nothing, right?
Then what caused something to just exist?

 

[brad.dude03]

Uncounted years of waiting for something spontaneous to happen. It could have been time beyond measure that what we know as existence was in non-existence, or the void, before something happened, at random (or with the help of a divine creator, if you will), that caused nothing to turn into something.

 

[Gausslander]

This thread is basically the religiously brainwashed vs. the independent. no matter what, one side of the discussion won't see the others point of view.

 

[Gilles]

This thread is basically the religiously brainwashed vs. the independent. no matter what, one side of the discussion won't see the others point of view.

Religiously brainwashed? lol


Poot, I'll watch the video on the weekend again, and reply. I kinda skimmed it before.

 

[PurplePoot]

Let's face it, the majority of religious people are brainwashed, though there are those who are not.

 

[Megafyr]

I'm glad we die. This gives us the chance to do something useful with our lives. I don't think there is any magical kinda new life thing after death. We are born without purpose and die by change. And when we die we stop existing.

And yeah.. I kinda think that religious people are brainwashed somehow. Or they just want to believe in stuff that cannot be proven, well.. If I say I can fly and throw firebals with my mouth would you believe me? Naa.. didn't think so. 1-0

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Bad idea for a thread.

This is soon to turn into a "RELIGION SUCKS", "NO IT DOESNT" heated argument. If it hasn't already.

Religious people will believe that they have a greater afterlife, the rest wont.

End of discussion.

 

[brad.dude03]

It wont until you suggest it. Really, we have moderators for precisely this reason. To moderate discussion.

Anywho, I'm not terribly religious at all (In fact I don't belong to any religion as I am agnostic), but I'm entirely open to the possibility of life after death. Really it's only atheists and cynics that prescribe to the 'rotting bones and blackness' of after death theory.

 

[Ulfus]

exactly what goes on before you are born and you already know that dont you?

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

...
there's a link on my profile if you want to raid the rest of my posts lol.

It's called an inference. From experience, from the users of the hive especially, the views of religious vs. non-religious are far from similar.
Anytime a person brings up a controversial topic, there will be lot's of argument.

And I totally expected the thread to be closed because of my say-so.
That's kind of a... "What I'm saying is pretty much known to be true"
((In this case.)) (((Not always.)))

And by the way, look at the above posts. Seems to be that the thread has already headed in that direction. Check the rest of them for my suggestion.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes, but since there is at least one moderator actively participating in the conversation, I don't think we have to worry about things getting flamey.

 

[LordDz]

Bad idea for a thread.

This is soon to turn into a "RELIGION SUCKS", "NO IT DOESNT" heated argument. If it hasn't already.

Religious people will believe that they have a greater afterlife, the rest wont.

End of discussion.

Bad idea? It's over 9 pages!..

No but seriously, people should type out on their all too smashed keyboards what THEY believe, not what some other factor (read god) thinks for them.

 

[Gilles]

Let's face it, the majority of religious people are brainwashed, though there are those who are not.

A majority of the world is brainwashed.

Bad idea? It's over 9 pages!..

No but seriously, people should type out on their all too smashed keyboards what THEY believe, not what some other factor (read god) thinks for them.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but I have been stating what I believe.

 

[Gausslander]

A majority of the world is brainwashed.

All that states is that you believe that the religious majority is, in fact, brainwashed.

 

[terradont]

All that states is that you believe that the religious majority is, in fact, brainwashed.

Not really. What he is stating is that more than religious people are brainwashed. Don't twist things.

 

[Hakeem]

Oh goody, I wasn't the only one that noticed that. I've noticed people like to find flaws in an alternative while being oblivious to the fact that their side has the same flaws.


Regarding the origin of the cosmos, I believe myself the only person to have ever given a complete answer. It involves "something" coming from "nothing." Somehow I manage to keep it within the realm of logic. Imagine that. Or, you know, shrug it off thinking nobody will ever find an answer and that mine is automatically wrong despite you not knowing my logic. Many great things happen by people refusing to try.

 

[Gilles]

All that states is that you believe that the religious majority is, in fact, brainwashed.

....

lol

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Yes, but since there is at least one moderator actively participating in the conversation, I don't think we have to worry about things getting flamey.

The thread goes super off topic. I wish there was a moderator in my "What have you learned in life" Thread. That thing went from kind suggestions to religious vs. athiest war. I'm glad it ended.

Bad idea? It's over 9 pages!..
No but seriously, people should type out on their all too smashed keyboards what THEY believe, not what some other factor (read god) thinks for them.

9 pages doesnt make it a good idea lol. You could have 9 pages of people yelling at each other, like in the thread mentioned above. Controversial topics are never fun to argue because there is never any resolution. anywhoo..

I believe people go to purgatory(sp?) and await their fate.
simple enough.

 

[PurplePoot]

....

As Scyth said. It's pretty hard to brainwash someone into being nonreligious, since agnosticism involves looking to science and such for answers, while brainwashing teaches you to follow dogmas and reject evidence.

Regarding the origin of the cosmos, I believe myself the only person to have ever given a complete answer. It involves "something" coming from "nothing." Somehow I manage to keep it within the realm of logic. Imagine that. Or, you know, shrug it off thinking nobody will ever find an answer and that mine is automatically wrong despite you not knowing my logic. Many great things happen by people refusing to try.

I'm not convinced that it can be kept within the realm of logic. At some point our concept of reality breaks.

 

[CloudWolf]

I'm a christian so I do indeed believe in life after death

I dont need any proof because if everyone knew exactly what happens, what would be the point in belief?

 

[Gilles]

As Scyth said. It's pretty hard to brainwash someone into being nonreligious, since agnosticism involves looking to science and such for answers, while brainwashing teaches you to follow dogmas and reject evidence..

I don't see much of a difference between brainwashing someone into believing in a God, and brainwashing someone to not believe in a God.

Religions do not reject evidence.

 

[PurplePoot]

I'm a christian so I do indeed believe in life after death

I dont need any proof because if everyone knew exactly what happens, what would be the point in belief?

So you think that since you like belief, you can make up whatever you want?

I don't see much of a difference between brainwashing someone into believing in a God, and brainwashing someone to not believe in a God.

Religions do not reject evidence.

Point 1) How does one go about brainwashing someone to not believe in a god? Beyond that, more practically, the amount of people who go around "brainwashing their kids/people around them to not believe in a god" is unheard of (as in ridiculously small), whereas the amount of people who are brainwashed into believing there is a god... well, just look at the teachings of most religious households and churches (not all).

Point 2) Say that to Galileo, Darwin, and many others.

--

I'm fine with people like Hakeem believing in life after death, because they seem to actually put thought into the question. But really, don't just say "I believe it because the Pope says so" or any derivative thereof.

 

[Aschy]

Wow what a fucked up thread,

After believing many different things I started to believe exactly what I see happen, people die and they don't get up. I believe that people do not go to heaven and hell, its cool if you believe in that though its good to have faith in something.

But as to the hopes of an "Afterlife" I base my beliefs of this on the Bible (I don't wish to take the thread off topic with religious beliefs) I believe that there will be a judgment day that everyone from all ages and time will have to answer to God. Whether God will let anyone through is his choice, or if you will have to abide by his rules. Or if you are unaccepted I believe that you will be forgotten from God's memory forever and be burned in the lake of fire and sulfur (Which I think is what everyone thinks hell is.. And I think Dante got his inspiration of his vision of hell from the scriptures that say this.) I don't think god would let you Burn forever though. But despite believing in all of this nonsense I think that even myself will not enter due to the lifestyle I have chosen to live but you can always be hopeful. But this is just what I have come to believe through research of the Bible and my interpretation of it. I do not wish to say you are "wrong", for I don't know if this is what happens, even I have to put faith in my own beliefs I hope you do the same.

Originally Posted by Gilles
I don't see much of a difference between brainwashing someone into believing in a God, and brainwashing someone to not believe in a God.

Religions do not reject evidence.

But how do we know all Religions don't reject evidence? lol.. I don't trust anyone anymore

 

[KingB00ker]

I believe in purgatory...
and I believe people having no faith still can enter the 'so called' Heaven

Am I too naive?

I once thought that if we live forever in heaven, we will feel bored for all eternity.

However once again I thought what if after death we got our thoughts, desire, and wish changed? We won't ever feel bored and always feel happy although there's no entertainment?

So, I mean what if the way to get happiness is altered after death? We don't need to play WC3, make love, etc to get happiness any more. GOD will be the source of all happiness!

Oh yea, and I think time doesn't exist any more...

Am I a dreamer?

You can say that, however my belief will remain unchanged and I HAVE NO INTENTION TO CHANGE YOUR BELIEF.

 

[CoBrA b]

I believe the answer to what happens after death lies in energy. It has been shown that colliding subatomic particles of energy can create a relatively large burst of matter and antimatter. So, logically, a collision of energy the size of a head of a pin would be able to produce large amounts of matter. So that's how the universe may have started. You can call the energy force behind the collision whatever you want. I call it "The Force."

The next step is to realize that there must be something that gives us life that goes away when we die. I believe that this, too, is energy. Therefore, at the point at which we die, this energy must either:
1) Evaporate and go away forever, or
2) Go back where it came from.

Since it has been scientifically proven that nothing can destroy energy, the second option must be correct. So, upon death, the energy that gave us life re-enters wherever it came from.

This is where things are up to you to decide. Is the place of origin Heaven? Is it simply a universal pool of energy that all life and matter is drawn from? I believe in the latter. I think that our life-giving energy re-enters "The Force" at which point it mixes with the rest of the energy of the universe.

This is certainly not the best nor most scientific argument for a theory of what happens after death, but I do think it has some validity, especially in that, apart from the more agnostic specifics of my theory, it does not really negate the beliefs of most religions, whom I respect. "The Force" could end up being God or some other divine being. But we will never know, will we? We cannot speak to the dead.

 

[CloudWolf]

So you think that since you like belief, you can make up whatever you want?

Well.... the fact that I said "I'm a christian" kinda tells you what I believe I havent made anything up, I believe there is a heaven

 

[Gausslander]

Well.... the fact that I said "I'm a christian" kinda tells you what I believe I havent made anything up, I believe there is a heaven

Really? All you're doing is making this harder for you.
We know what you believe in; we have studied and studied it and come to the conclusion we don't believe in a magical space fairy that impregnates women and sends people to a fiery cavern, or an eden up in the sky.

 

[CloudWolf]

I know I'm not having a go at anyone elses belief's.

Im just stating that if people had proof that these things existed, then what would be the point in beleiving? In order to gain entry to heaven, you must believe, knowing is not the same thing

Its just what I think, everyone is entitled to their own opinions

 

[Gausslander]

Believing and knowing are two completely different things.

 

[CloudWolf]

exactly

 

[Aschy]

The only thing I can say about believing in things that "Man Kind" has created is that you must put faith in something I don't care what it is. But you can believe in what the Jews say or what the Christians say and all that shit but only you can decipher it the way you believe it. I think it would be good for everyone to read the Bible and the Kron and what ever "Religious" books are out there and make a choice for themselves about life and death and not what some Priest /Rabbi / Buddhist/ etc says.

I think that your beliefs should be based on what you truly think and not what someone else has to say unless you totally agree with them and then all I have to say is; research what others say and only perceive things the way you think it is true.

 

[Gilles]

Point 1) How does one go about brainwashing someone to not believe in a god? Beyond that, more practically, the amount of people who go around "brainwashing their kids/people around them to not believe in a god" is unheard of (as in ridiculously small), whereas the amount of people who are brainwashed into believing there is a god... well, just look at the teachings of most religious households and churches (not all).

You do not believe in God. It is the exact same as my belief in God. It is a belief. My belief in God is passed to my children. Your belief in the lack thereof, is passed on to your children. We both "brainwash" our children.

Point 2) Say that to Galileo, Darwin, and many others.

Are you saying that all evidence is correct? Why do you think that the Church rejected Galileo's theory?

I'm fine with people like Hakeem believing in life after death, because they seem to actually put thought into the question. But really, don't just say "I believe it because the Pope says so" or any derivative thereof.

You imply that I've put no thought into it. I'm offended.

 

[Vegavak]

Gilles, you don't brainwash a child by not forcing them into a religion.

 

[Elenai]

He means that your environment inevitably molds you towards certain world views. Even though I forged my own from study, and discovered (in the sense of an epiphany, not "I found it first") many things on my own, I had help from my environment to do so in its early stages.

You cannot 'force' anyone to believe anything, or force them into a religion, or 'lack' of it.

I cannot be forced to be a Buddist, if in my heart I do not believe in Buddist teachings, I cannot be a Christian, if in my heart I have not accepted Christ. Likewise, I cannot be an Atheist, if I believe there is some form of divinity.

An extremist may threaten to kill me if I do not convert, and even if I did renounce my faith and turn to theirs 'saying I am one of them' if I do not accept their faith of my own free will, and with a mind open to it...then I am not 'one of them'.

You cannot be brainwashed into a religion, or lack thereof.

(Cults perhaps can brainwash, but they 'convert' in a different manner from religious means. Since cults attempt to break the mind, religions merely try to open it)

 

[Vegavak]

words

A child is heavily influenced by its parents. If its parent wishes that the child be Christian, the child will be. It is a form of brainwashing. Children are curious for explanations of the way things they perceive work, and for children & the unintelligent, religion is simply a shortcut.

Religion does not open your mind, religion merely encases it in a protective shell. You really ought to stop trying to use yourself as an example.

It's unfortunate that you are so consistently wrong on so many counts.

 

[PurplePoot]

You do not believe in God. It is the exact same as my belief in God. It is a belief. My belief in God is passed to my children. Your belief in the lack thereof, is passed on to your children. We both "brainwash" our children.

No, if you don't bring it up at all you aren't brainwashing them. Besides, if you teach them to think critically, you are also not brainwashing them, as they actually weigh the issue.

Are you saying that all evidence is correct? Why do you think that the Church rejected Galileo's theory?

Because they had their heads up their asses, and didn't want to admit the bible was wrong?

You imply that I've put no thought into it. I'm offended.

Just because I mention one person doesn't mean I exclude everyone else... Besides, the "I'm offended" line is getting really really old and cliché.

He means that your environment inevitably molds you towards certain world views. Even though I forged my own from study, and discovered (in the sense of an epiphany, not "I found it first") many things on my own, I had help from my environment to do so in its early stages.

But that's not brainwashing.

You cannot 'force' anyone to believe anything, or force them into a religion, or 'lack' of it.

By surrounding them with it when they grow up, you are forcing them into it.

I cannot be forced to be a Buddist, if in my heart I do not believe in Buddist teachings, I cannot be a Christian, if in my heart I have not accepted Christ. Likewise, I cannot be an Atheist, if I believe there is some form of divinity.

But you can be indoctrinated before you have a belief at all.

An extremist may threaten to kill me if I do not convert, and even if I did renounce my faith and turn to theirs 'saying I am one of them' if I do not accept their faith of my own free will, and with a mind open to it...then I am not 'one of them'.

You cannot be brainwashed into a religion, or lack thereof.

(Cults perhaps can brainwash, but they 'convert' in a different manner from religious means. Since cults attempt to break the mind, religions merely try to open it)

Hate to tell you, but a religion is a government-recognized cult. Not that a cult is necessarily a bad thing, but that's the only difference. As for the brainwashing thing, just see above.This is about kids.

 

[13lack.1)ragon]

I think one of the biggest anti-religion points would be.. if every religion claims to be the one "true" religion, then how come there are so many religions out there? Also, religions are only around for as long as people "believe" in them. Think of the roman and greek gods... the beliefs in that religion has altogether nearly ceased so is it no longer the "true" religion?

I don't believe in a higher power, but I do believe that life and our planet should be treasured, as there are very little (if only one) planet capable of bearing the amount of living and thinking creatures as ours does.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Silly 13lack.1)ragon why should anyone care for the planet when they will be dead in 80 years. Clearly religion is just an excuse to believe that we should take care of the planet since then there will be consequences if we don't. *Sarcasm Off*