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The State of Things

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MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

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Volvox said:
IMO, the only problem here is popularity. Don't even try to deny it, popularity breeds jealusy and that is basically a keg of dianmyte yet when it booms, everyone blames the spark.
Click to expand...
And whatever, might I ask, is the solution to this alleged problem of popularity? Do you suggest we take out any form of identification whatsoever?
 

Elenai

Elenai

Elenai

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May 22, 2007
Messages
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The problem is not popularity, (the awards would show popularity in the form of gifts)

The problem is what happens when people start becoming sulky and drive the community apart. This new system will cause community connectives, which is the primary problem we are facing, we are not connected anymore.

This will open many opportunities as I have stated, for the community to come back together, become more closely knit, and all the while retaining the old fun, with some new refreshing twists that the old rep system had.

Not to mention the artistic development for trophies.
 

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

Level 26
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Messages
3,669
Elenai said:
Or simply change the keg with something that doesn't explode...

That's just my opinion.
Click to expand...
If you're talking about rep, the only "explosions" I see are from people who don't like rep in the first place. I'm going to assume Volvox is talking about something entirely different.

Your system is needlessly extravagant. Rep is rep. It's just that simple.
 

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

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Squiggy said:
This site is a warcraft modding community (oh really?) and this thread is to pull up different opinions - so here's mine.
And if you intend to hulk-smash me for my opinion, do so.
Click to expand...
Get it.

You most certainly do not.

Cut the martyr crap. I'm not going to crucify you for your opinion. I will, however, crucify you for thinking I'm going to crucify you for your opinion.

And don't get me started on the context you're putting things in.
 

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

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Messages
7,945
A brief overview:

The Global Moderator rank has been abolished. Each member will recieve a new position. General Frank and PurplePoot were both promoted to Directors of their various sections (Art and Coding), and Mecheon is retaining his Rule Enforcer position. The others have all recieved new jobs better fitting of their skills, where they are needed most.

More changes to come :D
 

Gilles

Gilles

Gilles

Level 34
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Sep 6, 2006
Messages
8,873
I'm curious. This is a question for the veteran members. Do you think the Hive used to be better about two years ago? We lost a lot of people last year, and a few more this year. From what I've heard (or got hints of) is that a lot of people preferred the Hive when it was younger, and had more "better" members. I say better only because it seems to be the vibe I get.

If this indeed is the case, I think I have a reason. I also think this is the reason why people think our members aren't "connected". We've lost the sense of a modding community. We still have a fair bit going on, but we have a ton of veteran members that don't do a whole lot. Even General Frank seems to have slowed down. All of our top modelers, skinners, and coders have moved on. Not necessarily to other site, but to other things not related to wc3. Elenai for example has moved onto art. Earth-Fury seems to just haunt the chat. Werewulf just takes care of the forums and draws art. Mecheon just enforces rules.

Not saying this is a bad thing, I too have modded a lot less, barely any in fact. I just think it may be the biggest reason we've lost a sense of community. When everyone modded, it was a more fun and relaxed environment. Now it seems a lot of people just post for postings sake. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Instant Ramen

Instant Ramen

Instant Ramen

Level 9
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Messages
375
Gilles said:
I'm curious. This is a question for the veteran members. Do you think the Hive used to be better about two years ago? We lost a lot of people last year, and a few more this year. From what I've heard (or got hints of) is that a lot of people preferred the Hive when it was younger, and had more "better" members. I say better only because it seems to be the vibe I get.

If this indeed is the case, I think I have a reason. I also think this is the reason why people think our members aren't "connected". We've lost the sense of a modding community. We still have a fair bit going on, but we have a ton of veteran members that don't do a whole lot. Even General Frank seems to have slowed down. All of our top modelers, skinners, and coders have moved on. Not necessarily to other site, but to other things not related to wc3. Elenai for example has moved onto art. Earth-Fury seems to just haunt the chat. Werewulf just takes care of the forums and draws art. Mecheon just enforces rules.

Not saying this is a bad thing, I too have modded a lot less, barely any in fact. I just think it may be the biggest reason we've lost a sense of community. When everyone modded, it was a more fun and relaxed environment. Now it seems a lot of people just post for postings sake. Maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

What's this "modding" you speak of?
 

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

Level 36
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Messages
7,945
Gilles said:
I'm curious. This is a question for the veteran members. Do you think the Hive used to be better about two years ago? We lost a lot of people last year, and a few more this year. From what I've heard (or got hints of) is that a lot of people preferred the Hive when it was younger, and had more "better" members. I say better only because it seems to be the vibe I get.

If this indeed is the case, I think I have a reason. I also think this is the reason why people think our members aren't "connected". We've lost the sense of a modding community. We still have a fair bit going on, but we have a ton of veteran members that don't do a whole lot. Even General Frank seems to have slowed down. All of our top modelers, skinners, and coders have moved on. Not necessarily to other site, but to other things not related to wc3. Elenai for example has moved onto art. Earth-Fury seems to just haunt the chat. Werewulf just takes care of the forums and draws art. Mecheon just enforces rules.

Not saying this is a bad thing, I too have modded a lot less, barely any in fact. I just think it may be the biggest reason we've lost a sense of community. When everyone modded, it was a more fun and relaxed environment. Now it seems a lot of people just post for postings sake. Maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Most here know well my opinion on this. My absolute favourite time at the Hive was when I joined. 2006 was just the best year, and even when I lurked before that on the War Hive. Why? For one, Ralle was closely tied to the community. Everyone joined because they saw the link when playing WH40KTD, and Ralle was still actively developing the map.

On top of that, the community was MUCH SMALLER. This meant that everyone knew everyone else, and so the noobs (what little there were) were quickly rooted out. It also meant that Ralle didn't take himself quite so seriously, and participated on the forums more than anyone else.

It was a small tight knit group of people, all congregating over a map they love. It really had a sense of community that has since been lost to professionalism and an overwhelming number of users.
 

CombatTheWombat

CombatTheWombat

CombatTheWombat

Level 14
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Messages
888
I am not sure exactly where it is that I am coming in on this conversation. I just read page 1 and page 8 and they seemed to still be on a similar topic. I think this topic is basically admins and their connection to the site and site members, someone correct me if I am wrong please.

I am a relatively new member, hardly more than a year into my Hive career. Within the first few months this quickly became my favorite site on the web and I visited it every day. I continue to visit it every day now as well, as long as I am home. I had a very good experience in those first few months but then I began to be aware of moderator activity. From what I have it, it has been sporatic at best.

As many of the people I have co-mingled with on this site know, I can be a major douche bag and pain in the ass at times. And my perpensity to be a lamer is actually what alerted me to the moderator behavior. In my fits of rage I insult other members all the time. Sorry to your if you are one of those people. I usually receive no penalty for this, I dont know if I like or dislike that, but all the sudden I found myself banned for a week. Then when I was finally unbanned I checked my box and found an infraction from Ghan that just said something like, "Banned - Insulting another member."

In my opinion you should either be punished for something or not punished for something, it shouldn't just feel like a random punishment for something you do all the time. So what I would like to see is some more admin activity, AKA tighter rule enforcement, more forum participation, and no scaring off new people in the channels.

I feel as if the lack of admin activity is somewhat killing the site. Somebody mentioned just posting for posting's sake. I find myself doing that more and more recently. I dont really care about what I am posting on, I am just trying to bolster site activity.

I also feel as though a specific resource section needs more moderator attention, that being the skins section. For the past several months there have been at least 8 pages of pending resources there at all times. That is kind off pathetic, no offense to our moderators, I know you are busy. But I think either some more moderators or just each one devoting maybe just 20 minutes a day to strictly approving or not approving resources. That would most likely solve the problem.

Well, those are my thoughts on the issue. I hope the issue is the one I thought it was. Thank you for reading.
 

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

Level 24
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
3,283
Well I would focus my opinions on User-Staff :

Member situation

There should be a harmony between all members (both staff and Peons) not the social groups that tend to flame each other!
Such as ,the chatroom silence that occured two days ago:
Well,Ghan silenced the chat for 10 minutes,it was that necesary because many members just spoke non-senses.It all turned out that everybody flamed Ghan , in my oppinion,we need a new chat system,something more private.

Resources

The facts are :
- 7 pages of pending maps(nothing that cant be done,here)
- 7 pages of pending skins(here the same,it can be quickly moderated)
- 22 pages of pending icons(it is absurde and I didnt saw a new icon in weeks)
- 3 pages of pending models (nothing to it)

I'm not saying that moderators are lazy,but shouldnt they give more attention to our resources?

Admins

There is no problem with the admins,they dont bide their own rules,they dont dictate as they plead,they do a great job.


And I would like to quote somebody:

MSBB,by noobs,you dont mean newbie members that simply dont know many things about WE!
Give them more attention ,cut the awesomeness crap!

WILL,do you smell anarchy?
Stop this stupidity and be more productive,take this serious or mind your own bussines!




I'm amused how this song and lyrics match our situation!
 
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Eleandor

Eleandor

Eleandor

Level 21
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
3,699
Gilles said:
I'm curious. This is a question for the veteran members. Do you think the Hive used to be better about two years ago? We lost a lot of people last year, and a few more this year. From what I've heard (or got hints of) is that a lot of people preferred the Hive when it was younger, and had more "better" members. I say better only because it seems to be the vibe I get.

If this indeed is the case, I think I have a reason. I also think this is the reason why people think our members aren't "connected". We've lost the sense of a modding community. We still have a fair bit going on, but we have a ton of veteran members that don't do a whole lot. Even General Frank seems to have slowed down. All of our top modelers, skinners, and coders have moved on. Not necessarily to other site, but to other things not related to wc3. Elenai for example has moved onto art. Earth-Fury seems to just haunt the chat. Werewulf just takes care of the forums and draws art. Mecheon just enforces rules.

Not saying this is a bad thing, I too have modded a lot less, barely any in fact. I just think it may be the biggest reason we've lost a sense of community. When everyone modded, it was a more fun and relaxed environment. Now it seems a lot of people just post for postings sake. Maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

It is in fact the main reason (among a few others) why I did leave the hive for a few months. I came back simply because there's no alternative. Been back now for what, a week, and it looks like things only became worse. It's still a reason why I hardly join chat these days: some of the veterans simply aren't related to the hive's "roots" anymore. With roots I don't mean WH40K, but the whole warcraft 3 modding thing.
 

Pyritie

Pyritie

Pyritie

Level 49
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
11,136
Sooo... we have the admin problem sorted out for now, I think. What's next?

  • Chat issues and moderators
  • Several "degrading" staff members
  • More arena activity

For the arena activity, perhaps we could let regular users run contests? By posting in admin contact or something.

NearbyHermit said:
- 3 pages of pending models (nothing to it)
Click to expand...

I downloaded them all and will be moderating them in my 4-hour car journey I have today.
 

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

Level 24
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
3,283
Pyritie said:
Sooo... we have the admin problem sorted out for now, I think. What's next?

  • Chat issues and moderators
  • Several "degrading" staff members
  • More arena activity

For the arena activity, perhaps we could let regular users run contests? By posting in admin contact or something.



I downloaded them all and will be moderating them in my 4-hour car journey I have today.
Click to expand...

Good job Py,fight the power!:grin:

Well,here are the personal issues that I dislike:
  • Chat issues
  • Several "degrading" staff members
  • The lack of interesting topics
  • And the term known as Group-Socialism

In rest,everything is ok!
 

LiOneSS

LiOneSS

LiOneSS

Level 24
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,812
ok now; the thread started with the thing about some social group and now you whine about the lazy mods and stuff. I don't believe any of you could do better. I was never a mod, just a minimod, and neither that is easy... in the beginning you work nicely but later you just can't watch those pages anymore O_O so, if we solved the whole problem with the 'Jury' gtfo and whine in the admin contact forum about all the lazy moderators, stacked pending resources, forum merges.... and let this thread rest in piece.
AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY TILL THE END OF THEIR DAYS.
 

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

Level 40
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
10,532
Several "degrading" staff members
Click to expand...
Any more necessary staffing changes will be made as seen fit by the respective section's director over the next little while, after we get settled in to the new system.

Thus, if you have problems with a staff member, ideally private message their respective director with reason for your problems, and evidence supporting your claims.

If you have problems with a director, talk to Ralle.

The directors as it stands will be:

[highlight]Webmaster[/code] (Webmaster) -- Ralle
[highlight]Technical[/code] (Behind-The-Scenes stuff) -- Samuraid
[highlight]Community[/code] (The Hive Workshop, Gamer's Hub, Hosted Projects) -- Ghan_04
[highlight]Art[/code] (Artist's Discussion, Art, Skins, Models, Icons) -- General Frank? -- Note: He has neither accepted, nor do we have full agreement on this one as of yet, but it's looking to be the most likely.
[highlight]Development[/code] (Warcraft III Modding, Maps, Spells, Tools, Jass) -- PurplePoot

Each director's section will most likely be in charge of tutorials relating to their section.

More arena activity
Click to expand...
Hopefully the new structure will allow every section to get more focused attention, but for now we'll have to wait and see specifically what happens.

Chat issues and moderators
Click to expand...
Elaborate.
 

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

Level 40
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Messages
10,532
If only politicians were as good as you guys, you actually started working and are doing good :D Yet there is still work to be done.
Click to expand...
Politicians are more concerned with being reelected, and thus only do stuff if it suits their campaign.

Sad but true.

Anyways, there is indeed still work to be done. This was just the first topic on the menu, and I imagine the discussions will continue when Ralle logs on again today.
 

HeretoDLstuff

HeretoDLstuff

HeretoDLstuff

Level 20
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
2,074
Problems:

Chat:
Problem: Reported "Power abuse" and "Unjust banning" (Wrong people get banned)
Useful functions of chat: Nothing besides general chitchat and blabbering. Seems like a general chaotic disorder which is the source of a bunch of problems. People get together here to make fun of people. Many bandwagons, "funny" fads, un-serious\useless user groups, and other things are made here. When somebody clueless comes in asking for help, I often just see people make fun of him not help him, really. It seems like to me, to know people, have fun with them, and be considered well known and liked, you have to go with the "cool" guys in the chat a lot and laugh at the world with them. Cuts down on forum activity too. :)P) Problems seemed to start from the chats prime and from then on, but thats probably just me...
Other: Trust me, I like the chat, and by all means I think it should stay! It is full of win. But it needs big changes IMO.
Purposed Fix: I doubt my idea of a fix ralle would want to do. I will just leave it up too him to do what he things is right.

Next problem..


Lack of rule enforcement\lack of competence in moderators\picking sides, lack of moderation, lack in certain areas in general:
Problems:
1. "Lack of rule enforcement" refers to the chat mostly. Lack of competence in moderators refers to some peoples complaints about masterhaosis, stemptimus, and DrSuperGood. I am not saying that I back the complaints up. Picking sides refers to not being just because you like one person better then the other, which happens in some cases.
2. "Lack of moderation" refers to resource section. This changes how bad it is from time to time.
3. Lack in certain areas in general, mostly refers to user groups. They have no rules. They are spam made to waaaazooo. I think they should have some rules, although light ones.
Other: A moderators job is hard. I am not gonna complain about them.

The arena should allow more freedom in user-run contests (not challenges) I think too.



I like to support the hive and give suggestions, but I feel I'm too young, inexperienced, and in-active to be allowed to say\do anything. These ideas have no proof or research whether they are true really.. I shouldn't bother say them as I don't know much on the matter.
 

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

PurplePoot

Level 40
Joined
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Messages
10,532
Useful functions of chat: Nothing besides general chitchat and blabbering. Seems like a general chaotic disorder which is the source of a bunch of problems. People get together here to make fun of people. Many bandwagons, "funny" fads, un-serious\useless user groups, and other things are made here. When somebody clueless comes in asking for help, I often just see people make fun of him not help him, really. It seems like to me, to know people, have fun with them, and be considered well known and liked, you have to go with the "cool" guys in the chat a lot and laugh at the world with them. Cuts down on forum activity too. :)P) Problems seemed to start from the chats prime and from then on, but thats probably just me...
Click to expand...
It's occasionally hugely useful; that's where most of the big site discussions which need to be solved within a currently active group of people are held. However, it's usually as you described.

As for the moderators, see my response to Pyritie's post.
 

Captain Griffen

Captain Griffen

Captain Griffen

Level 14
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
1,156
Chat could really do with having more channels, eg: a general chat room and a development room. However, saying that chat being chaotic and disordered is a problem is just wrong, I'd say, since that's kind of the point of chat - to chat about stuff. The only issues are the inconsistent moderation, and when you have multiple conversations going on (since there is only one channel for most users).
 

HeretoDLstuff

HeretoDLstuff

HeretoDLstuff

Level 20
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
2,074
Captain Griffen said:
Chat could really do with having more channels, eg: a general chat room and a development room. However, saying that chat being chaotic and disordered is a problem is just wrong, I'd say, since that's kind of the point of chat - to chat about stuff. The only issues are the inconsistent moderation, and when you have multiple conversations going on (since there is only one channel for most users).
Click to expand...
I did not mean to imply the chat should not be used for chatting, but thats it should have more uses. Not only should there be more channels, but members should be able to make password required channels(or invite only. There should be a choice) that they can moderate\apoint moderators to, and it should be like pastebins -- it will dissapear if not used within 12 hours or somthing.

That way people could chat with who they want, about what they want, instead of being a chaotic freefor all spamroom.
 

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

brad.dude03

Level 36
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,945
The chat is going to have channels. When Ralle finishes the new chat room, that's how it will work. This will cut down on the spam and eliminate all issues with chat, essentially.

As for Master Haosis, I think many of us have a case on him. Just prior, MSBB was banned for a day.
[19-38-23] MasterHaosis: Okay who is next ?
[19-38-26] HINDYhat: Err...
[19-38-28] Captain Griffen: WTF was that for?
[19-38-35] Sabertooth: Jury -1
[19-38-37] brad.dude03: Ah, I made a Harry Potter fandom thread. First person to try and troll it gets 9 point infraction.
[19-38-39] Dr00d: Dude, what dod he do?
[19-38-45] MasterHaosis: [00-37-48] MySpaceBarBroke: The shit that is infinitely more awesome than the rest of this site.
[19-38-54] Sabertooth: [19-38-37] brad.dude03: Ah, I made a Harry Potter fandom thread. First person to try and troll it gets 9 point infraction.
[19-38-54] MasterHaosis: So why he stays here
[19-38-54] Sabertooth: IM ON IT, BRAD
[19-38-54] Captain Griffen: Criticising the site is now a day bannable offence...?
[19-38-54] brad.dude03: MasterHaosis, and?
[19-39-02] Captain Griffen: This site SUCKS!
[19-39-02] MasterHaosis: is hsit is better than rest of this site
[19-39-05] Captain Griffen: Badly.
[19-39-06] HINDYhat: Because he's in the Jury.
[19-39-14] Dr00d: That was uncalled for Haosis.
[19-39-16] MasterHaosis: yes
[19-39-17] Captain Griffen: Really really badly if people get banned for having opinions on the site.
[19-39-27] MasterHaosis: not just opinion
[19-39-39] brad.dude03: OPINION MASTERHAOSIS.
[19-39-39] brad.dude03: IT'S ALLOWED.
[19-39-42] MasterHaosis: spam
[19-39-44] brad.dude03: UNDER FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
[19-39-52] Ash: Captain Griffen, I'm making an account on wc3c now :(
[19-39-53] Captain Griffen: Spam? One line does not count as spam.
[19-39-56] Arilen's Tale is a Cinematic Series that takes place in a world where a civil war occurs between Wizards and Necromancers...
[19-39-56] Captain Griffen: Ash, yay!
[19-40-00] Ash: I'm going to live there instead.
[19-40-03] MySpaceBarBroke has been unbanned by MasterHaosis
[19-40-03] Hakeem: RALLE PERMITS FREEDOM OF SPEECH?!
[19-40-04] Captain Griffen: W00t!
[19-40-04] MySpaceBarBroke has joined the channel

I mean, he eventually saw sense and unbanned him, but the fact that he banned him in the first place is all wrong. He prides himself in rarely using his chat powers, but EVERY TIME he does, it's always for ALL THE WRONG REASONS. Which makes his having chat powers completely counterproductive to the site.
 

frostwhisper

frostwhisper

frostwhisper

Media Manager
Level 49
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
4,222
I can't agree more with you.

Haosis seems to become instantly provoked by the following:
- Saying something bad about the site (as a critique)
- Criticizing the administration
- Trying to critique him or the way he does his map mod job

His reaction is usually kick or irrationally long bans.
 

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

MySpaceBarBroke

Level 26
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
3,669
I never said the rest of the site was in any way bad; just that the Jury of Awesomeness is better. Is that such a crime? Anyways, he unbanned me due to popular demand, so I hold no grudge. I'll just wait until he does something truly anger inspiring.
 

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

NearbyHermit

Level 24
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
3,283
You say this?

You and your group always start the fuss,because of you guys ,Ghan had to silence the chat room!
Lio and Ash are implying subjects when the others tend to ask questions about WE or something that is considered on topic with the community rules!
Don't want to say something unusefull,and I'm sorry for even bringing this.

MH is not a chat problem,he is a person.

If there will be a multi-channel system ; I sudgest that one should be made for persons that have questions about WE and then you can create your own channel!
 
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