The Noble Paladins

[Moderator]

03:13, 11th Jan 2015
StoPCampinGn00b: Sylvie's review and my comment.

 

[Maizon]

Sorry about description guys i know it looks bad but i still don't understand how to make awesome ones

 

[WhiteFang]

Mmm...maybe I can help you. Vm me and ill help you with what you want

 

[Maizon]

Mmm...maybe I can help you. Vm me and ill help you with what you want

Well thanks i will!

 

[Dreadwing]

Gonna try this,
I can help you to make good description

E : Do you know http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/miscellaneous-tutorials-456/how-add-screenshot-your-map-description-241054/?

 

[Maizon]

Adding them soon.

 

[Sclammerz]

I have played this (Cause I like to play campaigns!), I must say it was good. But apparently there were problems in it. This is a BETA version, I suppose.

The campaign screen is a blood elf campaign while it is a human campaign. Mind to fix that?
The terrain was not so nice to see, there were empty places.
Many Chapters (Almost) No items can be obtain.
Also when you finished a chapter you will be send at the main campaign screen. Did you not put a set next level trigger? its just bothering me when I always sent there :3.
I will not mention the others cause I think they are just minor thingies.
SUGGESTIONS:
Also maybe you could add some custom spells for Paulo rather than the default Paladin spells.
Place units not so very close at the edge of the map like the Undead bases in Chapter Three, I suppose.

This campaign has potentials but yet many problems needs to be fix. I'll give it 3/5! I hope it will get approved! Also make your thread attractable. Happy Mapping!

Edit: Also add more screenshots, maybe 2 - 3 would be nice. Cause one screenie just won't do.

 

[Sylvie]

I'll try it now!

 

[Mechanical Man]

Tried first chapter and a bit of second. Looks good for a first campaign, honestly I expected worse. It would be good campaign if published 10 years ago, but today people expect more.

Anyway good starting point, just slowly improve everything abit, terrain, armies (units, spells, models), story description and so on.

 

[Maizon]

@Sclammerz: Thanks for feedback! i will do everything you mentioned in next verison
@Mechanical: Yeah but i just wanted to turn back with time, and yeah iam not a good terrainer so i will probably add models in next verison thanks!

 

[Sclammerz]

Tried first chapter and a bit of second. Looks good for a first campaign, honestly I expected worse. It would be good campaign if published 10 years ago, but today people expect more.

I totally agree to this. They really expect more.

 

[Sylvie]

Ok, here's my review, but before you see this, let me say something. This is your first campaign, I also was expecting worse, but it is actually good, it's not a GREAT campaign, but for your first try, this is awesome. Here you can see some things that might help you in fixing your campaign. Anyway, sorry if this will by somehow offend you, and good luck in your next projects!

Map: The Noble Paladins Type: Campaign Author: Maizon

Chapter 1: Terrain is just too simple, and almost the entire map is empty, it ressemble me of Warcraft 2's terrains, you could add some doodads, put more enemies and resize the terrain, it's quite of big considering the content. For the roleplay, it's too equal to RoC's human campaign (as you said), and that's not bad, but it feels like just playing RoC again. We can see some lack of triggers that need to be fixed. For example, at the Far Seer encounter, my Rifleman attacked him in the middle of the cinematic, causing an early battle into it. 2/5 Chapter 2: Same thing about the terrain: it's empty, big for no reason, few enemies, and that human city just... don't look like a city, you just put a rock ground with walls around. About the roleplay, I just hate the fact that Manathar is just standing in my base, but at least he's a good tank And I must admit, you did a good job with the AI, except the fact that they just attack and run and train a lot of Acolytes... But again, it's too equal to RoC. Try to put some custom content into it. 2/5 Chapter 3 Same thing about the terrain (again), and, with all the respect, Brill is ugly. The roleplay is quite simple (and equal to RoC), just defend the city until reinforcements arive. So, there's nothing into it. 3/5 Chapter 4: This terrain is good, a forest with some rocks, flowers, and off course, undeads The doodads really fit the rest od the terrain, good work. The imprisoned soldiers was a nice touch, really creative. The cinematic here is also good, but in the beginnig it was kinda of bugged. 4/5 Chapter 5: Well, the terrain is kinda of better, but it's still empty. the tiles that you used are... kinda of good. For the roleplay, Blackrock Clan in Kalimdor? Well, this is a custom campaign, so you're forgiven And I must say, it was too boring to destroy those Demolishers on that cliff. 4/5 Chapter 6: This is actually good, the terrain is better, the enemies are worthy, the chieftain was a good mini-boss, and the landslide was very creative. I liked this chapter, good work. 4/5 In general: Well, I think it's weird to have a Blood Elf campaign screen into a human campaign, you could change it to the Human campaign screen. And honnetly, I don't like of the constant reference to Arthas, Jaina and Uther in this, but that's just a personal opinion. IN the whole campaign we could find only 4 or 5 itens, it's very few. Also, I saw that in all of your maps we can see the terrain in the minimap, and just walk around with the mouse to see what you must to to win. I recommend you to uncheck the "Masked areas are partially visible" option (Scenario > Map options...) in every map. also, after finishing the maps, we just go back to the menu. There's a trigger that could help you in this: Events Conditions Actions Game - Set the next level to [NextCampLevel.w3x] Game - Victory Player 2 (Blue) (Show dialogs, Show scores) Total Score: 2 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 4 ~ 6 = 3/5, vote for Need Fix.

 

[Maizon]

@Sylvie: thanks for your review i will fix everything you mentioned in next verison but atm i got no time since i got exams here in egy we don't get holidays until exams is over so yeah i will fix it in a short time and get a new verison and mention what has been fixed on it thanks for your feedback!

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

The map hasn't been updated since the 25th, the map is now set to await update/needs fix. Once you update it will be set back to pending.

 

[Maizon]

Its update is in progress now, thanks for moving it.

 

[Maizon]

Updated.

 

[Maizon]

Another update fixed some problems in Chapter1

 

[Rufus]

You ahve three "Also thanks to" hidden tags. THis should be fixed aswell as adding working screenshots.

 

[Maizon]

Well i updated !

 

[BlueFire]

Well, I took a quick playthrough of only the first chapter (don't get me wrong, it's late here and most likely I'll take a look at the rest tommorow) and the first thing that came to my mind were the first few human mission in RoC, the dialogue and the structure as well, it's not a real issue but it just felt like I played throught the mission already. The terrain was alright but I didn't came along any item, maybe I'm just stupid but really... Also I came along few peasants just standing near trees with their stand lumber animation, there is a trigger with which you can make the harvest and if you don't want that, just remove them, they look out of place. Maybe add a little side quest to the mission? Not sure if I listed all my found issues, but I'll take a proper look at the campaign tommorow anyway, so yeah... Enjoy your day you heretic.

 

[BlueFire]

Well then, time for a proper review!

Le review

Overall; The campaign itself is quite interesting since it takes place in the exact same timeline like the original RoC timeline, except for OCs' even the characters are the same, a small change from most of the custom campaign as much as this idea is interesting, the execution in some places is very problematic.

Things that bother me; there's a lot of scorched buildings but the enviroment doesn't feel scorched at all, there's lush green grass and overall, it just feels out of place. also cititens don't seem to care about their homes getting burned to ground. The terrain is sometimes delivered in squares, that's just ugly and unnatural. The first mission is too short and there are no side quests whatsoever, neither did I encounter any items. I noticed that I cannot skip cutscenes which is a nuisance, especially when you have to replay the mission a few times. Also, there are no difficulty options. In the 1st mission I came along an Orc Warlock, he had Chaos damage, I recommend changing that. Another problem with cutscenes is that units remain selected in them, that breaks the immersion. The dialogue is somehow unninteresting and I just didn't care most of the time. At the start of mission two, you encounter a Footman infected with plague, however he has no signs of that, you should give him green tint and he should change to a zombie upon dying, that's what pleague is for anyway. Afterwards the cutscene just somehow ends and I have to estabilish a base without much explanation. I am a wild easter egg hunter when it comes to WC3 and I was excited when I came along an area that looked like a secret, however Manathal cornered me there and I had to restart. When I came along the gold mine, peasants just appeared out of nowhere, kinda weird, nothing major. In the build a base segment, I honestly had zero idea what to do for a while, after a while the quest just completed itself, add a timer or something to indicate the quest completion conditions. There are grammar mistakes in this campaign, you should fix those. Why was there a dark wizard in a undead base? They are human so the scourge would just kill him and reanimate him. There were too many corpses on spears and they were weirdly placed, it looked ugly. Never increase the camera boundaries to the full extent, you may have noticed how it looks. There were murlocs near Durnhole, they had an unnecesarily big aggro range. Durnhole felt like a good-for-nothing encampment, not like a village, try adding tiles like White Marble. An orb of lightning? From an abom? Really? Manathar stopped following me after the encounter with the Necro and 2 ghouls in front of the Main Base. Defend this place for 30 minutes quest at the third mission? Come on.... ._. There is a reason why we see these types of Mission later in the campaign, they're booooring. I literally just took the starting forces and annihilated both forces... They had zero defenses from the start. Why did I try that? I went scouting. For what this mission is, the map is too small. Brill was too flat and because of that, it looked pretty bad. The layout of downhill undead base was really poor. No side quest present to entertain me. Change the Chaplain to a normal priest, Chaplains don't require upgrades, so that's kinda cheating since I could dispell blight from the start. I could not get more than 920 exp, the hell? Sometimes when Necros spawned skeletons, they just left... okay. The interlude is too short to be of much of an importance. It could just as well have been the flavor text in the next campaign. In the following mission, vision with the allied base was granted too early. Masked areas were only partially masked. The map was overall plain and boring. With so many trees, I seriously expected a few secrets, I was left dissapointed. Attack! ... nothing happens for 10 seconds... end. Well, moving on to the next mission. Why did they pass through Mealstorm? Pretty sure Neptulon wouldn't be happy about that since they most likely passed through Vashj'ir as well. Blackrock in Kalimdor? Really? Most of the map was unhabited and plain empty space. Once again, where did the peasants come from? This is where I end though, I destroyed both bases and boom, nothing happened and I could no continue, so that's sad.

Recommendations; I'll be honest, I recommend a total rewamp of this campaign, not now though. Read a few books so you can get better at storytelling, maybe get someone to help you? The terrain was okay, but doodads were missing, not at all, but you need more to use them more often, also you need to place them a little better. Add sidequests and no I won't stop annoying with this, if you use so many trees, add some secrets, you'll get bonus points from people like me For a first campaign it definetly wasn't bad, but look at all my listed issues and consider if you can even fix them with what you currently have. Maybe just make a remake in the future, I know, I know, every creator hates when they are asked to remake something entirely but sometimes it is better.

Some last words; I think I said everything needed, you need to get better at storytelling, designing terrain and campaign structure. Please don't let this review put you off, I am not trying to offend you with it, keep getting better and you will have a chance to become pretty famous on Hive, everyone likes a good campaign. And remember, if you just give up, I will find you and sacrifice you.

If I had to rate, it would be a 1.5/5

 

[deepstrasz]

I guess I'll just quote meself since there are two threads:

chap1:
-this level is too small to be considered such
-units selected in the scene where the seer appears
-this feels like a RoC ripoff
-killing the seer will result in the cinematic scene where the Grunts won't be able to attack the two Paladins as they are invulnerable

chap2:
-wasn't it at Stratholme where Arthas realized Mal'Ganis was the one behind Kel'thuzad?
-the Footman seemed pretty healthy; you could make him walk slower with some blood or effect on him
-the hero wasn't saved in a game cache, I think, since pressing "1" didn't get him selected
-hero selected during the Gold Mine scene
-a 200k Gold Mine!?
-the terrain needs work
-does Manathar even heal?
-he doesn't even attack, he only follow Paulo... he at last started doing something

chap3:
-I almost can't believe it. This is a copy of the level of RoC where you have to wait for Jaina to bring the reinforcements; you didn't even see fit to make the eastern garrison be attacked
-the Chaplain is a Priest with a different model and some extra HP...
-their bases are vulnerable

interlude:
-apart from being so short and having such meaningless information, where/how did they know of Mal'Ganis? They didn't even seem to realize he was a creature out of this world
-was it really necessary to start the movie with Arthas killing his father? The problem is TFT switched to the RoC executable because of that

chap4:
-suddenly, Paulo has an Orb of Lightning
-this level does not have black mask
-undead are keeping people in cages instead of turning them to, well, undead
-so how did they build the bases so near each other without having any interference in the process?
-this is the worst level since the first one; at least chapter 1 had an excuse for being the first level

chap5:
-an abrupt rupture of events; they just got to Kalimdor like that
-the red orc AI goes to gain experience on neutral hostile units; that's not quite the way of a campaign but never mind
-shouldn't the red orcs on Kalimdor be the ones under Thrall and not the Blackrock Clan; also, the Warsong Clan is near them and they're both allies
-the quest with establishing a base is finished upon meeting the orcs in their base...
-yet again a Gold Mine with an enourmous amount of resources... this time 400k
-if you gave the Pal' a Portugese name, this campaign could at least have been about conquistadores
-how did the orcs build towers up there if no ground unit can reach the hill?

interlude:
-it just ended with the campaign menu? The campaign is not even finished?

1/5. Sorry, you should do better. It does not even at least match RoC.

 

[BlueFire]

"It just ended with the campaign menu?" Heh, it didn't even end for me at all. Isn't that abysmall?

 

[Remixer]

Hmm...

So far my experiences:
Chapter 1:
- Lordaeron is mispelled in the loading screen. (con)
- The map starts stragiht with cinematic cameras, not being faded out. (con)
- You cannot skip the cinematic. (con)
- Your hero uses the very generic model and name combination and even the sound set is untouched. (con)
- The cinematic feels very unnecessary, does not give the player anything additional. All has been explained in the loading screen already. (con)
- The hero abilities haven't been changed, which is a big flaw in my eyes - we've played too long with paladins with the exact same spells that as a kit is horrible. (con)
- The terrain seems pretty clumsy - not many decorative doodads and the tile placement is off - it does not look natural or smooth at all, but like it's been patched up from a chaos. (con)
- The orcs seem very similar to the original versions (at this point I guess this is intended), however their AI is somehow weird - when I attack one of them, they run away and I can't chase them very well, making the fights extremely difficult and I could not complete the first map (unless many units died), so I skipped that gameplay aspect. (con)
- I checked the map but I could not find connection between the Blight ground beneath the Far Seer and the Far Seer. What is it? (con)
- You are missing one camera in the Far Seer cinematic - it is unused, and instead you use 11 seconds to apply the other camera (meaning if the player camera is not near when he steps into the region he'll miss the entire cinematic. (con)
- The cinematic looks very odd in general - one line? In 15 seconds? And no conversation. (con)
- The "Main Quest Update" is odd, you repeat Paulo must survive - that is not an update, it's already a requirement from the start. (con)
- Why are the Silver Hand troops just standing still next to you when you are fighting? "I wish you to lead this battle", yeah? Right - when you sit down and relax. (con)
- Your initial quest is to "scout the area" though you are sent to lead the battle? Am I missing something here - it seems very scattered overall, no connection to anything. So is the player scouting the area or leading a battle? And who is that Far Seer? Also, there is not much to scout - 50% of the map is empty, and gives the player nothing even if he did go there. (con)
- Footmen can walk past the trees, through some forests, you might want to fix this. (con)
- I find it stupid that orcs are standing right outside the primary base, like the Silver Hand could not find them. Ridiculous. (con)

Chapter 2:
- Right next to the start you can see the black map boundary - not a good thing. (con)
- Okay, again the cinematic seems extremely odd - even hilarious. I must say I found it extremely funny (thought I guess it's not supposed to be), looking at the game camera, scrolling in closer and closer and after 5 seconds of zooming the footman suddenly just dies - out of nowhere. (con)
- The terrain looks very poor again - only thick grass used and lacking tile usage. Also, most areas are empty and even those that are not (for example the gnolls) they are not useful at all (no item drops). (con)
- The gnolls and other creeps look out of place, again like they were just placed there afterwards, having no purpose or naturality. (con)
- The gold mine is in a very, very odd place, it's placed so that you cannot miss it, and it looks really awkward - not a bay for base, you know? (con)
- Again them map is filled with trees, with no cliff usage at all, which is very sad. (con)
- I don't quite catch why the campaign moved from orcs directly to undead? And... there are typos in the loading screen, maybe that is why? (con)
- The feeling and scenery of the map is again, very scattered and clumsy, maybe you should check how blizzard laid out their maps. (con)
- As a note, the bridges are placed wrong, you can alter their height by holding down Control key and pressing Page Up/Down. (works with every doodad and destructible. (con)
- When I played the map, I found out I had no other units than Paulo, so I thought I'd better get some items, well I checked the map first and knew nothing dropped items. Fortunately I saw that Manathar was carrying 3 extremely good items, so I decided to kill him (which you can do, the map lets you attack your allies). After a long time of grinding he finally died, but sadly, did not drop items. Annoyed I continued and found the gold mine only to figure out that the already dead Manathar said something and I kind a got fed up. (con)
- The Alliance flags are placed facing the wrong way (they are facing the walls now), so are multiple creeps and other objects.

Overall:

After this short gameplay, I can say that the campaign is very unpolished and seems unfinished. It tries to mimic Blizzard style, but fails to do that very well. In addition those features and styles that aren't Blizzard's fail too, such as odd or very marginal doodad placement and story telling, along with very unrewarding objectives, such as the creep camps, not to mention poor quality terrain. Sadly, I didn't find much to applause this campaign for. As its current state I see no reason to approve this map, it needs to be polished and feel like it is finished and pushed quality further. The thing with Blizzard-mimicing is that it's allowed and encouraged, but only and only if you truly can do it better than they did, and sadly this is not even at the Blizzard's level. However I encourage you to continue improving the map. For now, I'd recommend you to see the flaws I mentioned and then decide for yourself which is easier, go through every map and their details, checking for similar flaws and fix them, or start again from scratch.

 

[Paillan]

5 - 4 - 2017 Moderation
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Set to Substandard.

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[MouMou]

Hmm...I've read the reviews, and I don't think this is such a bad campaign after all.I might play this.

For @Rufus

You ahve three"also thanks to"....

Adhve? Or do you mean have?

 

[Rufus]

have, yes.