Rules / Freedom of Speech Discussion

[Supermj]

same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer,.... Blah blah blah blah blob!!!!

(And yes, I get those feelings too)

 

[Teh_Ephy]

About the abbreviations rule that Kitabatake mentioned, it would be possible to word that as to make it easier to understand.

I'm serious about this.

 

[Wolverabid]

Will some basic examples provide sufficient clarity?

Abbreviations of proper names must not be used to begin with. Make it clear exactly what any abbreviations stand for after you have clearly written the entire name. Examples: The Hive Workshop (THW) European Union (EU)

 

[Elenai]

A picture is worth a thousand words.....Show us some examples my friend.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Will some basic examples provide sufficient clarity?

A picture is worth a thousand words.....Show us some examples my friend.

Yeah, uhhhhhhhhh....

 

[PurplePoot]

Aight, I'll sum up my feelings, some of which have been previously stated.

---

Last time I checked, Freedom of Speech is limited everywhere, not just on The Hive Workshop and totalitarian countries.

You can be arrested for making death threats, last time I checked.

Next, as Captain Griffen said, this is private property, if you don't like the law of the land, "my way or the highway" to an extent.

Next, why should discussion about communism, americans, religion, etc, be allowed? That's totally different than naziism, and you know it.

Please, quit looking for excuses to start flame wars.

---

@EatShrooms

The 15 char limit was added recently (2 weeks ago or so), to prevent spamming (though it didn't really help).

I personally agree that it sucks, but meh, we'll see if it gets changed.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

@Purplepoot: So totally agreed, I'm voting for a 10 character limit, that's between to many and to few, easy as it gets.

Orginally posted by SuperMj
same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer, same argument, same answer,.... Blah blah blah blah blob!!!!

At least someone is agreeing with me.
And now something completly different (and not really related to this topic):

 

[JarrardKO]

Racism, flaming and the like fall under - provoking feelings of frustration and anger with insulting and offensive material within posts.

Which is what primarily forum trolls do. I'm glad this forum has strict rules against this Nazi or KKK crap, as it prevents this nice place from slowly turning to ruins by being a playground for forum trolls.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Ugh... People, communism is an economic system, not a governmental one. A working communism would be totally great for the average man, provided that the average man wasn't a lazy bum.

 

[LiOneSS]

There is also another thing. I know that in chatroom we should speak english, but I was already banned because spoke the foreign words for this reasons: greeting a friend in his language, forgetting to double click the name and explaining somebody an international abbreviation which words are in a foreign language. This does not make any sense to me.

I agree, this is quiet stupid

 

[TheDivineBoss]

*Quite hehe.

It's ok to just say a few words in foreign language, even on Bnet they don't mind if you just chitchat for a minute in a other language. But here it is 1,2,3 ban because of not speaking English. The world is agonizingly confusing.

 

[Mecheon]

I haven't read the topic, but you people gave up your right to free speech here the moment you agreed to our terms and conditions

That's as simple as it is. We decide what is acceptable and what isn't

 

[Jacek]

Rly?.......................

 

[LiOneSS]

I haven't read the topic, but you people gave up your right to free speech here the moment you agreed to our terms and conditions

That's as simple as it is. We decide what is acceptable and what isn't

It is sad, but true...

 

[Da)sniper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical Man
There is also another thing. I know that in chatroom we should speak english, but I was already banned because spoke the foreign words for this reasons: greeting a friend in his language, forgetting to double click the name and explaining somebody an international abbreviation which words are in a foreign language. This does not make any sense to me.

I agree, this is quiet stupid

Its probably for the best. If you think about it, if you talk a different language and no one has no idea what your saying they might think you could be talking about them or making fun of someone. This might make them a mad, especially if they just asked like some question they think is stupid but they needed help. So what do they do? (might I mean some people arnt like this ) They go off on you. You never know. It is for the best in for everyone. If you seriously have problems with english and you need help with it go to http://www.babelfish.altavista.com they have alot of languages and it does translate. If it doesnt make entire sense we can make something out of it.. Better than having to learn 5 different languages so I can read posts on the hive..

 

[Hakeem]

... seriously, you people use the "dictatorship" argument like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Good point, but I don't feel that it was elaborated upon enough.
See, while it is a dictatorship and private property of sorts, Ralle has chosen to emulate a more free sort of government. It has been decided that discussion of the rules is allowed, and speech is free, because very few people are willing to put up with a stupid dictatorship if they don't have to.
Saying to us "My way or the highway." is not a good choice, because if very few people agree with "your way", then this site is very likely to die, which, based on the fact that you are reading this post, is probably something that you would rather not have happen.

In fact, such decisions are subjective and must be addressed on a case-by-case basis. For example, if someone creates a thread "Piracy Is Bad" and users discuss the issue, it would (for my own part) be considered acceptable. If however, a thread called "How to crack a Warcraft CD" pops up, it won't survive for long.

Okay, that makes sense, but,

The Hive Workshop does not condone, encourage, support or tolerate the use of any appz, cracks, hacks, spoofers, torrents, warez or any other type of bootleg, illegal or pirated software (or techniques). The posting of such material or links to it are absolutely forbidden. Posts or threads referring to these subjects will be deleted. Violators may be banned.

To me, it looks like it says that talk of the subject is not allowed.
Perhaps it would be wise to remove the bold part?

 

[Wolverabid]

Posts or threads referring to these subjects will be deleted.

Perhaps it would be wise to remove the bold part?

I have edited that sentence, it now reads:

Posts or threads referring to these subjects may be deleted without warning.

 

[Hakeem]

What I mean is that a "How to crack a Warcraft CD" thread is posting of the material, violating this part of the rule: "The posting of such material or links to it are absolutely forbidden.", but a "Piracy Is Bad" thread is posting the subject, and is against this part of the rule: "Posts or threads referring to these subjects may be deleted without warning."

 

[ankaboot]

Rule-making is a perilous enterprise: it quickly becomes too elaborated. "Posts contributing to piracy will be deleted on discovery and repeat offenders will be banished" is simple enough and does not need to be "explained." It only needs to be applied with consistency and people will adjust to it.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I wonder where all that PayPal money goes to...









Freedom of speech ftw lolzorz

 

[Kitabatake]

To me, it looks like it says that talk of the subject is not allowed.
Perhaps it would be wise to remove the bold part?

Exactly what I was trying to explain in the very beginning of the topic but I pretty much failed to make myself clear due to stress and weariness.


But anyway I think that no matter how you interpret the rules, this place contains some rule breaking discussion...

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

The reason I repped Kitabatake on the thread's original post was for the reason that it makes no sense that we are not allowed to abbreviate names? How does that make any sense at all as a rule? Maybe a recommended standard, but a rule? I just don't understand how that could have made it into our THW rules.

Also, to our English only rule, there should surely be exceptions, such as greeting someone on their native language in the chatroom. If I say "Hola, como estas?" it appears that I can get kicked from the chat? Ridiculous.

 

[Earth-Fury]

Hello? Talking about piracy is a crime? Would some moderator be so kind to give some reasons for this?

Its illigal in the area the server is hosted, and thus he who owns and operates the server is partially liable for the content posted on the site.

And if your reply is just going to be the lame default "Hive doesn't support it", then I would just like to indicate my deepest disgust about the site's rules and hope you will make the site a bit more user friendly.

So in other words, because you do not agree with the stance a site takes, it completely invalidates that stance? Who made you so special?

Why should the talk be banned about subjects hive doesn't support? Because hive doesn't support free will and free thinking?

I'm not even going to counter the stupidity of that statement.

Why not make a rule "Expressing your thoughts might get you banned"

Nowhere is there a rule saying expressing your thoghts may get you banned. But just as in every first world country on earth with free speech laws, there are limits to it. If you don't like that, too damn bad! its the way free speech works everywhere, including the internet.

Let's make everyone happy and do some additions!

• The posting of soviet material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of american material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of religious material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of anything related to politics is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.

If I open a store, and you enter my store and begin preeching something i do not want preeched in my store, i have the right to limit your free speech by expelling you from my store. The same thing works on the internet.

We have SOOO many criminals on this website now...

so forcing people to make sense or not be heard is a bad idea? Maybe we should all just get cats, and have them walk across the keyboards to communicate. That would work well!

I might sound weird, but in Finland there is a thing which is called "freedom of speech". You should really try that on hive too!

Oh, ok. I wonder if by finnish law im allowed to enter your home which you pay for and i do not, and begin spouting nazi propeganda? I mean, if it should be allowed on THW, which you don't pay for, then shouldn't i be allowed to do it in your home, which i don't pay for? (and donating is a donation, not an obligation and privlage of ownership)

And don't take it as an offence, I am just very confused about these baseless restrictions and I suggest changing the rules or at least giving damn good reasons for keeping them that way.

Baseless? Even if they are baseless, which they are not, the site still has the right to have and enforce such rules. Just as a buisness owner or home owner is allowed to enforce such rules.

And, i posted this in the mod loby as response to the whole "let people speak their native languages" thing:

No. This is a diverse community culturally, and that is a good thing in many ways. But we still need to communicate with eachother, and be a community. Allowing parts of the community to seperate throgh one of the biggest barriers there is, communication, weakens the community as a whole.

The language we all speak, the communal language is english. Communicate with the community throgh the only universal method there is for the community, in this case, english, or don't be a part of the community.

THW's main strength is the size and diversity of the community. Diminishing that by allowing the community to split itself up in to groups that can not even communicate with eachother would hurt the community as a whole.

I'm not saying its wrong for people to communicate in their native languages, but this is an english community. If you are unwilling to communicate in english, than this is not the community for you. Without communication with the community, how can you be part of it?!

As for the issue of free speech on the internet, its the same as it is within real life. Free speech isn't some magical thing all people get out of thin air. Free speech is granted to people by goverments, and those goverments impose limits on free speech. You can't walk in to a barber shop and start screaming nazi propeganda in german and expect to get a hair cut. They have the right to limit your free speech in that instance. So it is on the internet. Website owners like ralle choose the rules, or who makes the rules. Those rules are then enforced as is chosen. Some rules can and will limit free speech, not to fight the right of free speech, but for the sake of the community and its members. If you want to speak in your native language, you're always free to go out and buy some server space and start a website. Just as in real life, you're allowed to go and open your own barber shop.

Bottom line: allowing people to communicate in languages other than the communal language will weaken the community as a whole.

 

[Eleandor]

Just look at the rules! Talking is banned, talking will be punished.
Hello? Talking about piracy is a crime? Would some moderator be so kind to give some reasons for this?

And if your reply is just going to be the lame default "Hive doesn't support it", then I would just like to indicate my deepest disgust about the site's rules and hope you will make the site a bit more user friendly.

Why should the talk be banned about subjects hive doesn't support? Because hive doesn't support free will and free thinking?

I'm sorry to all those 12 years old who can behave mature, but a large part of this community isn't mature and doesn't like to act mature. By this I mainly mean that they don't respect other people's opinion and rather start a flamewar in a serious discussion instead of discussing like a normal man should. Now when you take sensitive subjects such as Piracy or the jew extermination, it's better to ban subjects from THW than to have 10 trolls a day whining, flaming, starting discussions about hitler which certainly can hurt the feelings of people. There's already enough spamming and trolling going on right now, and to be honest, your own post already feels like you're trolling, though it's probably not your intention.

Why not make a rule "Expressing your thoughts might get you banned"

Perhaps adding a rule such as "no discussions about rules" would be good actualy. No seriously, fora like these are vulnerable to trolls, so rules like these are useful to me.

Let's make everyone happy and do some additions!

• The posting of soviet material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of american material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of religious material is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.
• The posting of anything related to politics is expressly forbidden. Violators will be punished most severely.

How do you compare "nazi" with "American"? Or are you insinuating that all germans are nazis?
You know, as we all know, that talking about nazi stuff can definatelly hurt people. Again, it's perfect food for a troll.

We have SOOO many criminals on this website now...

So breaking a rule on an internetforum makes me a criminal? Who cares if you start a thread about nazi's? Go ahead, just don't whine when the thread is removed without warning, and take your responsability when you get banned if you do this a lot. That's what rules are for.

I might sound weird, but in Finland there is a thing which is called "freedom of speech". You should really try that on hive too!

I personally don't have the feeling that The Hive is lead by dictators... Perhaps you do? You can always move to another forum, or shut down your pc and talk about serious subjects with people you know. It's still a gaming forum, having an offtopic forum should be considered a luxury, so accept the rules or be poor.

And don't take it as an offence, I am just very confused about these baseless restrictions and I suggest changing the rules or at least giving damn good reasons for keeping them that way.

The murder of the largest part of all jews in europe isn't a good base to ban pointless nazidiscussions that eventually end up in a flamewar anyway?

As a final word I'd like to say that the rules aren't here as restrictions. Moderators can close any thread they want. The rules here are just a guideline to what you shouldn't do. It's not as if a mod is going to check out the rules everytime he feels like he's got to do something.

Don't want to feed the trolls? Follow the rules.

 

[LiOneSS]

Its probably for the best. If you think about it, if you talk a different language and no one has no idea what your saying they might think you could be talking about them or making fun of someone. This might make them a mad, especially if they just asked like some question they think is stupid but they needed help. So what do they do? (might I mean some people arnt like this ) They go off on you. You never know. It is for the best in for everyone. If you seriously have problems with english and you need help with it go to http://www.babelfish.altavista.com they have alot of languages and it does translate. If it doesnt make entire sense we can make something out of it.. Better than having to learn 5 different languages so I can read posts on the hive..

No, it's ok, but i just agreed with DrSick that it would be god just to allow greeting!

 

[Gilles]

Also, to our English only rule, there should surely be exceptions, such as greeting someone on their native language in the chatroom. If I say "Hola, como estas?" it appears that I can get kicked from the chat? Ridiculous.

I agree, although the rule makes sense. This is an English site, and it would be annoying if people kept talking in other languages, half the population wouldn't understand. I really doubt you would get banned for saying hello in another language though. It's better to set a definite rule then leave exceptions.

The Hive Workshop is an English-only site. When participating in public discussions in the forums, resource sections and chat room all users should speak (write) only in the English language, unless you are saying hello in the chat rooms. Private messages and chat room "whispers" in other languages are permitted.