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Race Building Contest #3 - Mini Melee Race

Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by 67chrome, Oct 5, 2009.

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  1. Stanakin

    Stanakin

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    I'm posting this again (original found on page 60) beacuse I forgot to put the credits in the map itself. Attached to this post is the updated map with credits.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My race isn't as good and balanced as I'd like it to be, but sadly there is no more time to work on it. This is my final submission. If you see anything that's wrong (typos, wrong spell name, etc.) or can think of an addition I can add quickly, please tell me and I may be able to change it.

    I broke one of the rules in that I have 4 summoned units. (1 hero's summonable, 1 normal summonable, 1 defensive summonable and 1 ward.) I hope you can allow that.

    screenshots


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    credits/imports

    Ratorg Rider, Kobold Digger and Beast Pit by Callahan
    Kobold Stalker by levigeorge1617
    Giant Sand Worm by Sephiroth_VII
    Oger_Barracks by SantoRayo[iP]
    BTNXMeteor by X.e.r.e.X
    VolcanoShieldTarget and Low Poly Earth Elemental by DonDustin
    Bat by GreyArchon
    All other icons, Mining Shaft skin and Mining Mole skins by me.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mr.Goblin

    Mr.Goblin

    Art and Graphic Design Moderator

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    Thanks alot mate, but I seen these bugs myself.. the sad part of it is that my dad was on the computer the hole week-end, and I have lost a good 10 hours that I could have use to fix those bugs...

    I will fix them evantually... but the competition is already over... so I can't change anything for it.

    anwyay, If you want to help me out with finding those errors, I will be verry happy.
     
  3. pippo

    pippo

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    Here is my personal review...I don't know how many people is left making the race...
    pippo's review

    Adempet - 9/15 - The looks is quite cool, but the units are too simply, I think. Great job anyway.

    World of Goo - 6/15 -
    It's strange man...It's...uh...I played a game called world of Goo...I think you took the idea from it...well...iI don't like it...anyway you get a 6/15...

    Ghost Army - 11/15 - it's a little unbalanced (I mean the power of the race is not enought), but btw it's really really cool and well made.

    Sea L (Murlocs exct) - 12/15 - Oh, yeah! You made it! It's f*****g AWESOME! It's well made, all is perfect, buildingsand units match perfectly. I love it man...

    Hell - 12/15 - WOW! It matches perfectly the name of your race: HELL!!! There is fire everywhere and I like it so much. The only one bug is that you can make infinite hero, but it can be fixed easily...The race is balanced, and I like it.

    Forest Trolls (by Wazzz)- ?/15 - Protected map? Where are you, dude? It's a race contest, people must have a change to control the map in itself...

    Kobolds - 10/15 -
    The race is really well made, and balanced, but, I, don't like kobolds...you're unlucky man :/

    Tuskarrs - 11/15 - Man, your icons ownz, and the models too. The race is balanced. Anyhow there is the bug of the builders, and i think that the non organic units are not so "artic". Anyway it's really good.

    Forest Trolls (by Zpider) - 10/15 - It's really good, but a lot of buildings are centaur one! (not trolls)..the builders are fine, I would really like to know where you found them (lol I used skinned peons -.-)...GJ, but some buildings are cantaured...
     
  4. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    oh, the contest ends today? i thought it ended at the midnight between the 8th and the 9th.
    anyways... if your gonna test my race, go to custom games, choose the map, set your race to
    HUMANS and handicap to 90%
     
  5. Mage_Goo

    Mage_Goo

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    Submission

    Mage_Goo Submission
    Avian Race

    Well, it's nearly finished, so I think there's still bug in there, but I don't have any time left so, here it is.

    Attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. RED BARON

    RED BARON

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    Nope - I didn't take the idea from World of Goo (that would be impossible by the way, which you would know if you actually played that game :wink:)- I only used it as an easter egg reference in my submission description of the race and on the load screen. My actual inspiration was a failed model I made 2 years ago (btw before World of Goo was released)

    Anyway where is the review in that? Just writing that its strange and I took the idea from a game completely unrelated to it (although they both have the word Goo in them)... Oh well your opinion (but you clearly didn't judge it as a concept of a race and it appears rather clear that you judge not from race or any tech concepts, but only from your opinion, which is cool... just please do write something more specific :con:)

    Anyway I am unsure about the end time of this, as we have heard nothing I figure it to be at the end of today.. seeing how many posted after the other "deadline".

    Have fun with it people - and if you wait around 20 min I will also have fixed a build bug in the map...
     
  7. Mr.Goblin

    Mr.Goblin

    Art and Graphic Design Moderator

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    what? you mean I can fix the minor descriptions errors and some spells today?

    that is retard... cause I tought the deadline was yesterday.... and I have lost a good 4 hours of editing because of that.

    D:
     
  8. Chaos.

    Chaos.

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    Even though I can't make the deadline, I'll post the wips of my race. I am now reworking it to make it a full race. So this tech tree is obsolete.

    Pics
    Techtree.jpg Tribal Hall units.jpg War Hut units.jpg Voodoo Guild.jpg Den of Beast units.jpg


    Didn't have time to do any of the abilities. I also never made the hero. All units, buildings, and upgrades are done though.

    Good luck to all. Btw 40 minutes left.
     
  9. Wazzz

    Wazzz

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    Here is a pastebin of my map in its unprotected form, despite there being no rules to specify that the map must be unprotected:

    http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=za7zpx

    And Pippo, you do not need to open it in the World Editor to give the race a review, what kind of theory is that? And, in my opinion, Wraithling's Ghost Army deserved a LOT more than 11/15... you seem to have given high points to 'the pretty colours', though, thus proving Chilla_Killa's theory on the Custom UI being unfair to be correct. And I still can't believe that you downgraded Zpider because some of the buildings were 'Centaur' ones... are you not aware that all models have the potential to act as any race with a similar look? I found that model to suit the race very well, what with all the trees.

    Anyway, your reviews are what makes me fear the public polls - noobs with power. You just vote for the 'idea' you like most, not the actual skill involved in the making of the race. And that's what my point is. Noobs shouldn't be able to vote, it should be a select group of people chosen by 67Chrome based on their knowledge (Rui goes without saying, and Rui could even select a large number of suitable testers as he knows quite a bit about that).

    It looks as if you downgrade Mr Goblin by 5 points PURELY because there was a bug NOT with his units, but with one of the models. That's stupid, I'm sorry but there's no other word to describe this. You gave Veljkom's race 12/15, the highest mark you've given, PURELY because he 'made it'. You say it's 'f***ing awesome', but that's not what you're meant to look at. Hell, you downgraded Stanakin's Kobold race purely because 'I don't like Kobolds'. Now THAT'S stupid! AND RED BARON'S because you 'saw his race in another game'.

    In my opinion, if anyone deserves a 'top mark' out of that list, it should be Wraithling, Stanakin, Mr Goblin, Zpider or myself, based on the actual originality of our ideas. After all, Stanakin tried out a new idea never attempted by anyone else before to my knowledge, and although it had a little glitch, he deserves a great mark because of the originality alone, let alone how well the units suit each other. Zpider had awesome ideas himself, and although I found his units to be a little unoriginal at the start (sorry bro :p), his later units were awesomely original (if not a little op... but, as quoted by 67Chrome, balancing is not a key issue. Another reason noobs shouldn't be allowed to vote - they don't read the specifications). Wraithling had awesome ideas with his Black Ghosts and White Ghosts, his original race was great, too, but he changed it up and still pwned (if not even more so :p). Sad to say I have yet to play Mr Goblin's race, but from the screenies telling me what abilities his hero has alone, I can tell he deserves a great mark, too.

    So, a quick review of Pippo's race appears to be in order. It's... confusing. You have all the different Troll types, and although that's specified by your race name, the units don't fit well with each other at all. I mean, you have two early melee units, two basic ranged units... you double units of which you'd only want one. It's not very good, and as an individual who votes on originality over 'the pretty colours', I'd give it 2/10 at most.

    Hmm.... maybe I'll quickly review some other races while I'm at it.

    X-OMG-X: Your race is okay, the overall look on the battlefield is awesome (on account of that UI and the Customized Blight ground), but unfortunately, that's all that looks awesome. The Icon placement is all wrong for producing the units (the units appear on the top and the upgrades on the bottom, occasionally filling the middle, in the melee game), making the flow of using your race tedious. Not really many original ideas here, you sacrifice the Lasher to get a flying version of the Shade, despite it telling you you'll get 2 Skeletons (not sure how 1 Lasher would have 2 Skeletons anyway, but if it tells me that's what it's going to do, I want to see it). The Magma Wyrm is just ridiculously op, not even subtle when it has a maximum attack of over 300 and a minimum of just under 100 (when fully upgraded). The ideas are somewhat boring, the only thing saving this race is the custom UI... and, as that contributes to nothing of the grade, that results in your race getting approximately 2/10. I gave it 2 because I liked the Flames appearing when you built a building, suited the race even if it didn't have the UI or the Blight/Lava thing.

    Wraithling: Playing through your race has been a pleasure, especially seeing as how well the units work together. The early ranged unit proves to be weak against other more conventional ranged units (just like mine) on account of the Light armor, but this makes them more effective against fast melee attackers. They also act as a great scout. This alone shows how the units have clearly defined roles, yet are able to expand on these roles even more. The Mirages are, in my opinion, the backbone of the Ghost army. And now you finally made their Mirage form useful with the healing ability =D. Perhaps it could heal a little more or have a reduced cooldown? Either way, it's unimportant, as they are primarily used for their Mirage Tower Form when attacking the enemy. But, perhaps the most important thing of all, the Mirage Towers can't do it all by themselves. They work well as a support troop, relieving the Wraith/Wight of that role and allowing them to be used for scouting instead, but with Ghasts in the frontline and assisting Nightmares, you have an unstoppable force.
    Anyway, enough of the individual unit rap, now for the overall conviction. Your race is, and always will be, one of my favourites submitted here, if not my very favourite (and I'm glad my race has intrigued you very much, too =D). The icons are placed flawlessly (really easy to do once you get the hang of it, but it seems too many people don't know how to do that, making your race VERY refreshing in that regard =D). Your model choices are great, although on a critical note I would have preferred that you exported the models without birthing animations and given them some, but that's fine as that is a model thing and would have probably wasted space on your part anyway (the models fit together anyway, so no one better whinge about the 'no birthing animation' deal, even if I gave some models one because I wanted to :p). The units have great Gestalt, and with the new ability to combine two Wraiths/Wights together to form a more powerful being, the need for them has increased awesomely =D. And finally, your spelling and grammar is flawless. The only thing I REALLY did not like about your race is that some of the tooltips go from now to tomorrow, making them incredibly boring to read. If you make them more concise in future so they get straight to the point, I will appreciate it. 7.5/10 =D (about as high as I'll go with a mark, I do believe, so this is actually an honour coming from me :p)
     
  10. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    my race hasnt been mentioned in any reviews ):
     
  11. RED BARON

    RED BARON

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    I am on it :wink:

    Review Complete:

    You play as human - no changes at all
    The quests shows credits to model makers and such

    Conclusion; You messed up a trigger to activate custom race or you uploaded the wrong map :wink:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wazzz I can't say anything else then I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion both of Pippo's "reviews" and race. (But well I might change opinion about his review if he actually reviews all of the races instead of just stating something weird.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note; I consider this contest for finished (even though we haven't heard from Crome) and will not make any further changes to my submission. It should now show up correctly with another name in wc3, won't have a game crashing unit bug and transformations is fixed for every unit.

    Looking forward to the results - But please ADD a Judge! It proves everything that this tread already have received bias judgments even though its only the participants reviewing so far.
     
  12. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    wait WHAHAAAT... let me check.
    did u download the latest map? did u play the map via warcraft 3, or WE? make sure u set your handicap to 90%.
    EDIT: ok, im fairly sure this is the final version, check this link: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/posts/1372395/
    i had to fix a few gameplay bugs, but its nothing major.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  13. RED BARON

    RED BARON

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    I try that version, but first tomorrow. I might have gotten the wrong version or something.. hard to spot in wc3.
     
  14. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    remember to follow the directions.
     
  15. RED BARON

    RED BARON

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    I will lolz, but next time it is easier just to trigger the change :wink:
     
  16. Wazzz

    Wazzz

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    Okay, Ghost765, you asked for it, so here's a review of your race:

    The overall style of your race does not fit in by any stretch of the imagination with the standard Warcraft 3 melee game. With that said, points are deducted for that in my overall rating. You sort of double units in a way they really shouldn't be, like having 2 siege attackers with ultimately the same idea: long range siege attack. While one can be deployed to have a longer range and the other is just more durable, they both have the same role, which is never good. Same applies for Handgunners and Rangers.

    There are a number of typos (Sanctioned Pysker for one), which reduce my overall rating (although only by a small amount - typos aren't really a huge factor when it comes to people who's first language isn't English, especially when someone who has spoken English from birth can slip their finger on the keyboard accidentally just as much as any one else). The only really new ideas for your race is that every unit goes up in ranks (save the Conscript) and that each unit is recruited, but the latter isn't overly original anyway. OVERALL: 4/10
     
  17. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    which units are long-range siege? the Aquila is more of an MBT, and it is rather short range. The tempest serves as a base destroyer/defensive unit. Look at the night elves, they have 3 siege units. Humans have 2.
    Sanctioned Psyker is NOT a typo. english is my first language as well.
    Handgunners and Rangers also serve totally different roles.
    Handgunners are essentially the basic ranged unit, high damage, slow rate of fire, and also a chance to miss.
    Rangers on the other hand are one of the ways to bring down airunits via ensnare, which the Empire lacks. Rangers also serve as increased damage output, as well as scouting ahead with their long sight range/camouflage ability.
    If uve messed around with sellable units, you'll notice that they can't have requirements. I bypassed that.

    I'll start posting my reviews when the poll comes out
     
  18. Wazzz

    Wazzz

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    The Aquila and the Tempest both have high damage siege attacks (don't think of damage, think of DPS. One is faster than the other despite it having a lower attack rating).

    I never said Sanctioned Psyker was a typo. I said Sanctioned Pysker was a typo.

    Handgunners and Rangers are essentially 2 of the same unit, despite the Ranger having a longer attack range. Think about it: what does the pierce attack type do well against? Light armor. Who generically has light armor? Flying units. Hence, 2 ground units with Pierce attack are going to be used against air.

    ADDITIONAL: Icon placement of buildings is messy and terrible due to detachment, looks as if they haven't been changed at all.

    The hero has boring abilities. Reincarnation is a good example. If you're going to give it that ability, at least change the name and icon. Also, the Inspire Aura has a green icon for learning. Not good at all, also has tooltip missing.

    Attack/Armor types. Pay more attention to them. You have 3 units (all tanks) with Fortified armor. Kind of repetetive. ESPECIALLY when 2 of them have Siege attack. Seriously, look at the Warcraft 3 melee races and check out the unit roles.

    Like I said, this race may be good for a different game, but it's not good for this one. After all, you intended to add 3 different paths for the race to have. This would have been very difficult to make work in the Warcraft 3 strategy universe. However, you look at games like Command and Conquer where there's lots of different types of tanks with separate roles (even the Gattling Tank and Dragon Tank are different, Dragon Tanks are more so for infantry with their Fire Wall and Gattling Tanks are great for air).

    Pretty much it's a bland race for a Warcraft 3 match because of the similar units, the idea of Warcraft 3 is to have both clearly defined roles as well as secondary roles for each unit. Occasionally you get specialist units, but they generally don't get repeated within a race. Both the Aquila and Tempest tanks are for Siege attack. This could work. Both have Fortified Armor. Pushing it too much. One deploys for long range attack while the other goes into the thick of it to deploy troops. Not much difference between the two when it comes to Warcraft.
     
  19. Ghost765

    Ghost765

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    Have u noticed that only 2 units can do significant amounts of DMg vs air? Empire is more devoted to dominating the ground with cheap but reliable troops. The ranger not only has ensnare, it has near permanent invis plus long sight. Put together that with the tempest and u can hit bases before they know ur there. Aquilas on the other hand are cheaper, and more suited to he fromtlines. I believe they have450 range, a sharp contrast to the tempests max 1500.
    Here's a reason why all 3 tanks have fort armor, it wouldn't serve them right or seem right to give them medium or heavy. Instead I just modified the armor amount/increment and health
    About the hero abilities, I had absolutely no time I work on them, but that's just my bad work ethic.
    U seem more concerned with making a race that has similar traits to the orginal 4, but I sought to create a different expirence, which u said I did
    Building icon placement is intentional, hey correspond with he different battle phases,and the misc stuff go on he far right.
     
  20. Wazzz

    Wazzz

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    My typo doesn't make sense? I've been saying that instead of Sanctioned Psyker, you have Sanctioned Pysker in the map.

    I'm not concerned about having 'similar traits' to the original 4, the way you did things could have worked. Here's a quote from 67Chrome that will explain more:

    So, as you can imagine, having incredibly long range tempests and such highly defensive troop transports is alone op against any Warcraft 3 melee race. I'm not saying at all that the race should have 'similar traits' to the original 4, but rather that the race needs to be playable and retain enough of the original games mechanisms (the latter is not the issue, btw) to work well.

    That's a ridiculous reason for not changing their armor types, btw. Almost all siege units in the melee game have Heavy armor, the main exception being the Siege Tank, yet instead of having the maximum number of Fort. armor units (which is 1, btw, any more in Warcraft 3 is horribly op), you have 3. Hero attack is an interesting addition to a tank (works quite well, btw), but as I've said before (and I really can't stress this enough), this race is designed more for a different game, not this one, hence why it doesn't fit in (and hence where the 67Chrome quote comes in).

    You're not exactly used to having this sort of criticism, are you? It's almost as if you expected that you could do almost literally anything with a race (like even give every unit Divine Shield just because it wouldn't 'do the unit justice' to not have it) and expect it to be perfect. Believe me, there's a lot of thought required to make it suitable for the melee game.

    I'm not changing my rating, that is my opinion, other people will have different opinions. So enough of this babble, it's not point saying that you didn't do something that you did and then justifying it despite all the criticism in the world.
     
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