(New) Raw Tech-Tree Contest

[Gausslander]

Raw Tech-Tree Contest

Objective:

The Raw tech-tree contest: You must edit one of the original 4 races in warcraft 3 and make it completely different. You may not use any icons or models from that race or any other in the original 4.



Rules:
The rules are as follows:

• 
  -You may not use a single icon, or model already used by one of the original four races.

• -You may not use a single name for any unit, building, upgrade, or hero already used by one of the original four races.

• -You must have a name for your race, not already used by one of the four original races.

• -Your tech-tree must have a number equal to or greater than the amount of buildings, units and heroes in any of the original four races.

• -You may import as many models, icons, and skins you wish. Though they may not exceed the multiplayer map limit of 4mb (4,000kb).

• -You may only use resources that are hosted on the hive workshop, wc3campaigns, or xgm.ru.

• -You may not use ripped resources. That includes: icons, skins, and models.

• -You can make custom triggered spells, but the coding will be excluded from the official judging. The effect and originality of the spell, however, will be included in it.

• -The inclusion of downloaded spells in your map will result in disqualification.

Judging:

Categories	Description	Scores
Originality:	The judge will test the maps, and see if the originality factor is impressive, or if it is something already seen before.	?/20
Balance:	Does the race fit well with the three non-edited ones? Can they battle with out complete annihilation or without easily annihilating?	?/15
Replayability:	Is the race fun to play as? Is it artistic or plain?	?/10
Poll:	People vote on who they think made the best race, hopefully they will stick with the criteria that the judges used -.-.	?/55

First Prize: + 40 rep + Award Icon
Second Prize: + 30 rep
Third Prize: + 20 rep

hope you all like the idea.

 

[donut3.5]

Imports/Triggers allowed?
--donut3.5--

 

[Mr.Goblin]

hum remake the four race? this should take for ever... but i'm wondering.. can we just rename and change the unit model and ability... and thats all.. or we have to recreate 4 complete new race... and the 4 race should be equaly balance?

 

[donut3.5]

You only need to remake one.
And no triggering? That poopifies everything.
--donut3.5--

 

[Mr.Goblin]

k but can we re-used a model of the race? like for example.. i'm making a fearie race.. and i'm keeping the druid of the talon (i rename it and give him new magics)... does it count? or its completly a diffrent race?

 

[Mechmap]

No triggering is good since then you dont have to be a master of creating custom spells in order to win. I think those rules are good, hope to see this contest hosted!

 

[Mr.Goblin]

i would like to participate.. but i can't for now.. (i just removed a virus from my computer) and now i can't open warcraft 3 or warcraft3 world editor...?!

 

[Steel_Stallion]

I'm in. Bwaahahahaha, he only mentioned 10 icons and 3 models. But not textures.

Loophole.

Bwahahahhaahaha

 

[Gausslander]

Ah, you're right.

 

[PurplePoot]

No triggering is good since then you dont have to be a master of creating custom spells in order to win. I think those rules are good, hope to see this contest hosted!

You don't.

All restricting code does is limit creativity, since you're stuck with the original game spells and only slight variation]/b], which is, last time I checked, exactly against what the entire point of this contest was.

However, you still can make an interesting race without code if you try.

However, coding (in GUI anyways) to a limited degree is basically one of the most fundamental skills in using the WE.

Also, good luck making a coherent and good-looking race using no racial models or icons and only 1000kb of imports (and for that matter, only 3 models and 10 icons!).

"Gnolls."

"Naga."

"More Gnolls."

"More Naga."

"Even more Gnolls."

"Even more Naga."

"Seen the Gnolls recently?"

"Seen the Naga recently?"

"Hey look, it's the Gnolls!"

"Hey look, it's the Naga!"

The entire idea just strikes me as rather poorly thought out.

 

[Gausslander]

Imports/Triggers allowed?
--donut3.5--

Yes, and yes. Changed the rules.

You don't.
"Gnolls."

"Naga."

"More Gnolls."

"More Naga."

"Even more Gnolls."

"Even more Naga."

"Seen the Gnolls recently?"

"Seen the Naga recently?"

"Hey look, it's the Gnolls!"

"Hey look, it's the Naga!"

The entire idea just strikes me as rather poorly thought out.

This is indeed a concept, and I understand your concern. But the fact is there's really no challenge at all in just altering one of the existing races, stealing their icons and stealing their models. Gnolls and Naga, so be it. But you forgot some:

-Forgotten/Forsaken Ones
-Dranei
-Blood Elf
-The Burning Legion
-Wood Elf
-Corrupted Night Elves
-Harpy (Why not?)

Just a couple I thought of. You can be creative, it's not a crime.

 

[PurplePoot]

-Forgotten/Forsaken Ones

There is a whole one of those, then another if you count unbroken.

-Dranei

There are two of those, plus Akama, and a few buildings. Still nowhere near.

-Blood Elf

Almost all of them are already used for Humans.

-The Burning Legion

Hmm... you might be able to, but most are already used for Undead or Neutral Heroes (ie pitlord).

-Wood Elf

All of them are night elf.

This is indeed a concept, and I understand your concern. But the fact is there's really no challenge at all in just altering one of the existing races, stealing their icons and stealing their models. Gnolls and Naga, so be it. But you forgot some:

Of course you shouldn't just alter a melee race. However, I don't see what's wrong as using the Grunt model as "Axe Berserker" in my angry stuff that hits things race (assuming I replace the Orc race and thus the Grunt is not used for a default race already), or using the Bladestorm icon for a powerful sword slash attack (again with the aforementioned assumption).

Yes, and yes. Changed the rules.

Thanks for that

In my opinion triggered spells should count for the originality they bring to the race, but not by any means for the code.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think the "No using already in use" thing is a little bit silly, because if a race is copied you just nail them on originality when it's totally obvious.

 

[Gausslander]

In my opinion triggered spells should count for the originality they bring to the race, but not by any means for the code.

Indeed, that is a good idea. The originality of the spells would make people want to do more, and would inspire a more "raw" theme. I will have to tell you, though, that the difficulty comes from making anew. From completely scrapping the ideas of the original 4 races, and instead, creating your own "raw" template. That's where the theme comes from, and that's what it's striving to be. Completely... different. Completely new. +rep

I think the "No using already in use" thing is a little bit silly, because if a race is copied you just nail them on originality when it's totally obvious.

I'm looking deep into this. I think that you are suggesting that people be knocked off points from originality if they use icons or models from the original 4 races? Good idea. I might change some of the rules due to this.

 

[PurplePoot]

Not necessarily icons and models, but more concepts, I'd say.

It really depends, though. IMO creeps aren't any more original than the four melee races.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

The Import thing is stupid, we cant be creative if all we've got is creeps and non-race units. What the hell do we have to work with as buildings? Merchant shop? Fountain of life? Tents?

There needs to be a MUCH bigger import limit.

 

[PurplePoot]

I'd suggest that the map should just be under the multiplayer cap.

 

[Gausslander]

Alright. I take advice when it's given in a polite manner, so I will make it just under the multiplayer cap. However, and I'm not sure of this, it should only be fair if you're not allowed to make any models for your race. You should be limited to the resources on the hive workshop's model, icon, and skin indexes.

 

[PurplePoot]

That definitely sounds good.

Trying to limit this as much to a fair basis of originality is ideal.

 

[Ghost765]

hmmm...how bout models from other sites? as long as they arent ripped?

 

[PurplePoot]

I'd say wc3campaigns makes sense because it's also well known.

Otherwise, it's unclear. However, it is, in the end, Scythe's decision.

 

[Gausslander]

Well, the contest is hosted by the hive, and wc3campaign's resources are... to be honest, not much different then the hives, but I assume you could use models from wc3campaigns as that site basically is our ally. But you should probably give a link to it, we'll make sure it wasn't created by you and submitted there after the beginning of the contest and such.

 

[Ghost765]

how bout foreign sites? i.e. the "damned russian site" as mechanical man (i think) calls it
edit:and does this qualify: an Imperial Legion race? their human, but not related to warcraft 3
2nd EDIT: so let me get this straight, abilities/spells do not count for offical scoring? and whens the deadline?
whats the prize?
third edit: im so damn excited

 

[Gausslander]

how bout foreign sites? i.e. the "damned russian site" as mechanical man (i think) calls it
edit:and does this qualify: an Imperial Legion race? their human, but not related to warcraft 3
2nd EDIT: so let me get this straight, abilities/spells do not count for offical scoring? and whens the deadline?
whats the prize?
third edit: im so damn excited

I do not know the deadline. And I will make a guess-timation on the prizes in my main post if you want me to do so. Abilities/Spells count in originality. I don't recommend using resources from xgm.ru, as they are mostly rips. But if you must do so (as I know they have a couple of classy buildings there) you will need to provide a link to it and the resource must be approved before usage. Imperial Legion will be fine as long as it doesn't use any models or icons from the original 4 melee races.

 

[Ghost765]

gotcha. of course, i will not use rips etc. too high in kbs to use in multiplayer anyway.
alright, who can i send the link to for the models to be approved?

 

[Gausslander]

This is an idea for a contest not an actual contest. Therefore no one. I'm not even sure if we should allow models from other sites yet. I am working with other people to get a correct list of rules and a fair competition.

 

[Gausslander]

Anymore suggestions people?

 

[Sabertooth]

JASS in normal WE? =P

 

[Asomath]

Overall, I like the idea. However, the allowance of JASS, although it provides more options and opertunities to be creative, provides too much of an unfair advantage. For those who do not know how to write in code, their chances of winning or even wanting to participate are low. GUI sure. Although it limits alot of options, its still allows some creativity to come into play. It also provides overall fairness. Although, it isnt being counted in official judging, so I dont care, just said that incase you do think of including it.

I also do think WC3 models should be allowed without penalty. Heck, your creating a whole new race/techtree, odds are you are going to need to use some WC3 models as substitutes.

Other then that, I greatly want to see this contest happen, for it will be a contest I would be able to participate in ^_^

~Asomath

 

[Sabertooth]

Well obviously JASS can give an advantage, but that doesn't mean because they know/use JASS that their race will be the best. I'm fine working against someone who can JASS, but if you go into something saying "I will lose to [insert name here] but he knows JASS" then you've already lost.

 

[Asomath]

eh, very good correction there. Either way, I feel ok with the rule the way it is now.

~Asomath

 

[Gausslander]

Overall, I like the idea. However, the allowance of JASS, although it provides more options and opertunities to be creative, provides too much of an unfair advantage. For those who do not know how to write in code, their chances of winning or even wanting to participate are low. GUI sure. Although it limits alot of options, its still allows some creativity to come into play. It also provides overall fairness. Although, it isnt being counted in official judging, so I dont care, just said that incase you do think of including it.

I also do think WC3 models should be allowed without penalty. Heck, your creating a whole new race/techtree, odds are you are going to need to use some WC3 models as substitutes.

Other then that, I greatly want to see this contest happen, for it will be a contest I would be able to participate in ^_^

~Asomath

You have clearly not read through this thread.

If you had read through everything you would've already known that custom spells only count on the originality factor, meaning the originality of the spells. And that you can use wc3 models, just not models used by the original 4 races. Human, Orc, Night Elf, and Undead.

well, we have to use resources from websites, and we cant make our own, and i think that goes for jass spells too. due to the fact that TFT v1.22 doesnt allow NewGen, i cannot test my map. (i did some tinkering and got my NewGen editor to work, but not be able to test it)
nother question, are we allowed to take resources from campaigns that are unprotected?

Ugh... if they are hosted on the hive workshop or are approved by someone with authority over the contest.

 

[Asomath]

Oh no, I have read through the entire thread, I always do. It just seems that I mis-read it. Also the
"-You can make custom triggered spells, but they will be excluded for the official judging."
Is kinda throwing me off from what you just said ^_^

~Asomath

 

[Gausslander]

Oh no, I have read through the entire thread, I always do. It just seems that I mis-read it. Also the
"-You can make custom triggered spells, but they will be excluded for the official judging."
Is kinda throwing me off from what you just said ^_^

~Asomath

Yes triggered spells are not counted on the official judging criteria. Technically, they help in originality, but thats the originality of the spells you have, not their effectiveness or skill put into making them. It could darn well be as much of the name and balance of the spell as it is anything else.

 

[Asomath]

Oh, that makes more sense. Very well then, everything seems ok to me, I agree with this contest Idea and want to see it up ^_^

~Asomath

 

[Sabertooth]

You need the 1.21 worldedit. Someone has a link, I don't.

 

[Gausslander]

google war 3 tutorials. Now please get back on topic this is driving me insane.

 

[Artins the Great]

Just noticed this. Sounds fun, and very "price-worthy.... " I wanna try.

 

[Artins the Great]

Ghost, This is just an idea for now. So, even if we do it, nothin well happen. at least that's what i think. But if I'm wrong, I would definitely try out to beat tha HELL outta ghost.

 

[Artins the Great]

Auuh... Then, it's worth a try. Taking break from my project for bit.

 

[donut3.5]

All submissions must be started after contest approval.
--donut3.5--

 

[Ghost765]

actually, ill delete my own posts.
"all irrevelant posts that are mine have been deleted"

 

[JanSze]

Yeah! That's so cool I waited for a techtree contest so long >.< host this! I'm in but I suggest to start the contest AFTER the terrain contest which is running at the moment. Because many people are in there (inclunding me) and they can hardly manage 2 contests at one time...

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Question, do the races have to fit into Wc3/Wc3 lore? Like, is it so we cant make something like a race made of food (Vegatable soldiers!), or like a futuristic race?

Does it have to fit into the general theme of Wc3? Cause that would suck...

 

[Ghost765]

no it wouldnt, since originality is part of it. for example, if this contest gets approved, ill be doing an Imperial Legion race.

 

[Gausslander]

Question, do the races have to fit into Wc3/Wc3 lore? Like, is it so we cant make something like a race made of food (Vegatable soldiers!), or like a futuristic race?

Does it have to fit into the general theme of Wc3? Cause that would suck...

They do not. Originality and balance is key.

 

[Kwah]

I like the idea. Very nice.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Urg... I love making techtrees and stuff... But it's so much work, and I have so many other things going on right now.

Either way, cool idea. Needs tweaking (no models from original 4 races!), but cool idea.

 

[Kwah]

Either way, cool idea. Needs tweaking (no models from original 4 races!), but cool idea.

That's the whole point of the contest.

 

[Ghost765]

but its kinda hard. i say we can use a limited number of warcraft 3 models/icons. maybe like 3-5.
wish this could get approved