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New Content Discussion [SPOILER]

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

Alright, the recent chapters were very insightful but raised some questions.
So given that the Duke is Vanessa's father, i wonder are all 4 of Redfist's daughters of the same age? If so, why werent they all at the mansion? If not, I guess he married the second time? Im a bit baffled.
To put it short, could you please give a small recap of his biography, oh might Shar?
 
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After the 1st Voidwar ended, Redfist married the love of his life and settled in Lor, founding a family. His happiness was cut short however, as Rangul raided his mansion and killed pretty much everyone except Vanessa. He returned to the empire, became the person we know today, married a second time and founded a new family.
 
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So the poll from last week is due to the 3rd interlude, interesting. Still press F for rangul, either way, i will miss rangul's op items which made chapter 9 easy to handle. I wonder if brockta will take them? And it's pretty funny for a huge musclehead, brockta can speak very well.
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

So the poll from last week is due to the 3rd interlude, interesting. Still press F for rangul, either way, i will miss rangul's op items which made chapter 9 easy to handle. I wonder if brockta will take them? And it's pretty funny for a huge musclehead, brockta can speak very well.
Yep, press F for the scepter of healing.
 
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Yay, Rangul is dead. His death could've been made a bit more epic by having Zarin throw a stormbolt at him and it synchronizing with Redfist's final sword strike.
Sadly, the scepter of healing is lost. I would normally be ok with that, but Volarian will probably use it against us, by keeping it in his inventory and all.
Ephrog died a bit underwhelmingly though. I think he deserved to fight for a few seconds as Rangul did.
Volarian has a point, but Rangul has a point too. He ( Volarian) shouldn't treat Vanessa so harshly, even if what she did was not ok, to put it very lightly.
The Vanessa, Rangul and even Brian reveal, shockingly, weren't that surprising to me. Though it's good we now have an official confirmation for all 3.
 

Shar Dundred

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Considering the events in the third Interlude... What do you think?
Is Redfist's wrath justified? Is he going too far? Does Rangul deserve what happened?
What about Vanessa and Redfist?

I am curious to read your thoughts and will already let you know that I have a special something
planned for the full version regarding this Interlude, but I will not go into detail, that will remain
a surprise. ;)
 
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Is Redfist's wrath justified?
I would say yes. The orcs have caused a lot of trouble and would be better off dead. (I'm ignoring what happens later in the story and only concentrating on what has happened for now in the SOB. )
Also, this question's scope is a bit limited. Redfist isn't the only victim of the orcs. The men he leads and Zarin and his dwarfs are also effected by what the orcs have done.

Is he going too far?
From a moral standpoint, yes.
From his, the human, elven and dwarf point of view, no.

Does Rangul deserve what happened?
Yes. Yes for an eye. The principle in this case justly applies.

What about Vanessa
It's complicated. She both does and doesn't. The orcs indoctrinated her, but she also didn't mind it, so it's not a simple yes or no answer.

and Redfist?
Unless something that shows he was a bad person before his life got ruined by Rangul is revealed, my answer is no.
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

Well, like Aridon said - orcs had no place on that continent to start with. And then they starting pillaging the kingdoms. And now they want to build a realm of their own and how do they intend to do it? By destroying a human kingdom. I think Blen worded it nicely: "You forced my hand". I mean if they came to Arkain and lived peacefully on their isles I doubt Duke Redfist would ever exist in this current iteration. Yet he exists.
And now, its time to reap what they have sawn.
 

Shar Dundred

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Yes. Eye for an eye. The principle in this case justly applies.
Eye for an eye would have been burning the people close to Rangul alive and indoctrinating one of his children, but I get your point.
she also didn't mind it
She was a naive child though.
Unless something that shows he was a bad person before his life got ruined by Rangul is revealed
He wasn't.
Well, like Aridon said - orcs had no place on that continent to start with. And then they starting pillaging the kingdoms. And now they want to build a realm of their own and how do they intend to do it? By destroying a human kingdom. I think Blen worded it nicely: "You forced my hand". I mean if they came to Arkain and lived peacefully on their isles I doubt Duke Redfist would ever exist in this current iteration. Yet he exists.
True, but you have to consider this: Would Aridon or the other nations have tolerated the Orcs even
if they had remained peaceful?
Taking a look at the Empire, for example, they are not really tolerant towards other races.
Look at the Salrians who waged war against the rather peaceful Centaurs for another example.
And now, its time to reap what they have sawn.
True.
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

True, but you have to consider this: Would Aridon or the other nations have tolerated the Orcs even
if they had remained peaceful?
Taking a look at the Empire, for example, they are not really tolerant towards other races.
Look at the Salrians who waged war against the rather peaceful Centaurs for another example.
Well that is a whole different dimension to speculate about. First of all I cant really speak about Aridon's motives neither his understanding of balance. See he tolerates Brians actions as long as they dont intervene with his plans. Perhaps orc sitting stale on their lands could possibly fall under the "dont intervene" category. But that is only a theory, plus Aridon has a very broad vision of the grand picture, who knows what he sees?
As for the Salrians attacking the centaurs. Disliking/tolerating other races is one thing, but there are no dedicated to genocide generals, like Duke Redfist. And he exists because the orcs are the ones attacking and not defending. And even now when they intend to create a realm for their races, what will they do to the salrians? Slay them all? Hell, they dont even know how to build a kingdom, hence they wanted the alliance with the gnolls.
 
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True, but you have to consider this: Would Aridon or the other nations have tolerated the Orcs even
if they had remained peaceful?
Taking a look at the Empire, for example, they are not really tolerant towards other races.
Look at the Salrians who waged war against the rather peaceful Centaurs for another example.

Aridon would't have. The other nations... Well, true, the Salrians and empire wage war against the centaurs. But the centaurs shared a land border with the Salrians. The orcs wouldn't share a land border, instead remaining on their islands. Would this prevent all hostilities? Of course not, but it will at most make most kingdoms indifferent. Those who really care, I doubt will take direct military actions. Instead they will remain in a cold war like status.
 
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Considering the events in the third Interlude... What do you think?
Is Redfist's wrath justified? Is he going too far? Does Rangul deserve what happened?
What about Vanessa and Redfist?

I am curious to read your thoughts and will already let you know that I have a special something
planned for the full version regarding this Interlude, but I will not go into detail, that will remain
a surprise. ;)

Oh, I guess Redfist's anger is not without justifications. Excep he is the one who decided to take his rage out on his second family, somehing we only glimpsed so far, but still pretty clear, and exterminate a whole people for avenging one lost family. So yeah, he took it several hundred of miles too far. I'm not exactly fond of people who solve their problem by slaughtering defenseless civilians after exterminating everything else, and the way he acted here around Vanessa... Textbook definition of 'too far gone'. He wanted Rangul's head for his attack? Can't fault him for that. The sheer scale of the retaliation though? He just became a monster even worst than any orc raider he slaughtered.

Besides I'm curious to know if the orcs were always merciless raiders, or if there were tries for diplomacy earlier in the story, but that Humans/elfs/dwarves violent answers doomed hem to aggressivity. They manage to befriend the trolls, so orcs aren't mindless butchers. Did the Kingdoms give them the opportunity of being anything else before today?

Also, the teasing around the Mog'Thar is drinving me crazy. What the duck are they?
 
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Once the purificator is on stage, things gonna get more complicated for the orcs. Salria is in firing range of the accursed cannon after all.
Not really. By the time it gets done, the demonic legions will probably arrive with their entire armies, forcing the humans to completely concentrate on them. That doesn't mean the orcs will get away though. They will have 4 other major problems they'll need to deal with.
 
Not really. By the time it gets done, the demonic legions will probably arrive with their entire armies, forcing the humans to completely concentrate on them. That doesn't mean the orcs will get away though. They will have 4 other major problems they'll need to deal with.
Depends. Wonder if that Selior guy's death has more influence than bringing Praxeus to the table.
 

Kasrkin

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Besides I'm curious to know if the orcs were always merciless raiders, or if there were tries for diplomacy earlier in the story, but that Humans/elfs/dwarves violent answers doomed hem to aggressivity. They manage to befriend the trolls, so orcs aren't mindless butchers. Did the Kingdoms give them the opportunity of being anything else before today?

The orcs arrived to Arkain already having killed every human in the 'Orc Islands' who couldn't get away and went for the knockout and started invading the northern coasts.

The Knights of Kome were formed from people who were literally so pissed they all became expert orc killers that history credits to breaking the back of the initial invasion.

And trolls and orcs got along because of similar attitudes and hobbies, like raiding.
 
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off topic question, but when we will see 3 bonelords and their armies marching against dominion? in this orc book or next one?
 
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Well that's quite sad, dragon lancers are now removed, they are quite effective especially in chapter 9 against dragons. So i would like to give a suggestion regarding to that since i like the poison slow passive.
Currently, orc grunts cost 3 food meanwhile orc axethrowers cost 2 food. So there is an inconsistency and unit transformation bug can still be abused (not really, low tier units anyway)
And i would like to suggest that axethrowers should cost 3 food in exchange for poison slow passive or have them research poison slow.
Idk, thoughts about this?
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

May I ask why were dragonlancers and bearmen removed? Also, were bearmen removed completely? I mean did we lose only melee bearmen variations or did we lose the casters too?
 
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Shar Dundred

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Dragon Lancers were cut for the same reason they were cut in the First Orc Book: They are too powerful.
When originally created back then they were never supposed to become a player unit and I still
don't want to change the unit. It will get its time to shine, but not in the Second Books.
The world is not ready for them yet. ;)

Regarding Bearmen, as @Championfighter25 said, only the weak melee variant was removed.
A few cuts had to be made (some are behind the scenes stuff that you did not even know would
have been an option) and I had decided to remove some unneccessary units like the Bearman and instead
have the Gladiator trained directly.
Elders are still a thing too ofc.
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

Dragon Lancers were cut for the same reason they were cut in the First Orc Book: They are too powerful.
When originally created back then they were never supposed to become a player unit and I still
don't want to change the unit. It will get its time to shine, but not in the Second Books.
The world is not ready for them yet. ;)

Well, on that we can agree, the unit was definitely too good. Given its food cost it overpowered both troll headhunters and axethrowers.

Regarding Bearmen, as @Championfighter25 said, only the weak melee variant was removed.
A few cuts had to be made (some are behind the scenes stuff that you did not even know would
have been an option) and I had decided to remove some unneccessary units like the Bearman and instead
have the Gladiator trained directly.
Elders are still a thing too ofc.

Cant resist to ask why were ogres stripped of the same treatment? I mean Overlord is pretty much a larger Mauler. Not that I dislike the presence of those two, just curious.
Also thanks for adjusting the food costs.
 

Shar Dundred

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Well, on that we can agree, the unit was definitely too good. Given its food cost it overpowered both troll headhunters and axethrowers.
And many melee units too.

Cant resist to ask why were ogres stripped of the same treatment? I mean Overlord is pretty much a larger Mauler. Not that I dislike the presence of those two, just curious.
Nothing wrong with asking. :)
There is quite the power difference between Bearman/Gladiator and Mauler/Overlord.
Bearmen pretty much were a new "medium/normal" melee unit - and you already got a few of
those like Grunts, Marauders and Brawlers - quite the selection.
At the same time, the race of Bearmen is completely optional so it felt logical to make cuts here
rather than the others, plus ogres being a more numerous race.
There may be concerns regarding the Command Aura of Overlords but I would still say that it adds
more usefulness to the unit. They can serve as powerful leader/buff-kind units, like Kodo Beasts,
Greywolves, Lieutenants or Overseers. Unlike the other units of its kind, however, the Overlord
also is pretty powerful on its own as well.
 

Shar Dundred

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I am happy that you people enjoy the Tales of Arkain, I enjoy them myself as well as they are a simple way to add some lore to Arkain.
Due to the focus on the Second Orc Book and its production, they currently have a rather low priority.
I have some ideas, however, and may write a bit during the next few weeks, but no promises. I would not release a short story that I do not like, else we would have at least 50% more but lower quality short stories than we have right now. ;)
 
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Alright, I finnaly had the time to play these new chapters

Screw that wizard Zelech. All those threats and he flees when he loses, while his men are slaughtered. All bark and no bite, like they say. the Gnolls wer right for distrusting him. Oh yeah, like they would trust in the guys that just attacked the gnolls without provocation and kidnap their king!

While I now sympathize more with Duke Volarian, he is still a douche. His hatred for the orcs might be justified, but he has gone out of proportions and become even worse than them. The orcs might pillage, but their goal is not outright genocide of other races. Plus, it is not justification to have been a horrible father to Aedale and her siblings. I hope his death is even worse than on the Second Human Book!

And screw Zarin too. Blame Queen Renova for the entire situation of your brother's death!

So basically Rangul's first mission led to a chain of events that led to the creation of an army of genocidal humans, Aedale's horrible childhood which led to her corruption, the near extinction of the orc race and now his death.

I knew Brian wasn't actually Brian! I knew that he was simply the Shadowed One in a mortal's body. Is the affection he holds towards Gardon truly his or is it remnants of his host?

So Duke is the main villain for the Second Orc Book?
 
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By the looks of it, yes. Though he'll be killed soon, either by Aedale or Amari, Sasrogarn and Grofzag. After he's taken care of, the dominion will face a much bigger threat.

He should feel lucky that his death might be merciful.

If he was facing me, death would be a mercy.
 
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Fire golems in the first five minutes of map is rude.

Fire golems in the first five minutes of a map without prior warning is very rude.

Fire golems in the first five minutes of a map when you just got five new units that you might be preoccupied with examining the stats and attributes of the aforementioned units? Now that feels like bad design.
 
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I wonder if we will have a orc vs orc chapter when the winner gets to be the warchief (the player gets to pick which side to play on like gardon vs van durce) , since there was a poll asking us who is most fitting to be the leader of the orcs. Maybe in that map, some remnants of darkmind clan or the karskin (since that was a choice in the earlier map). What do you think?
 
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I just played the Eleventh Chapter

Shar, what is your problem with Sasrogarn? Because you are clearly making him more unlikeable with every new chapter! Now we find out that he has been taking credit of others' accomplishments! Say whatever you want with van Durce or Duke Redfist but they at least reached their positions for being skilled in what they do!
Why Grofzag puts up with him I don't know.

How hypocritical heartwarming for Zora. Reminds me of Miranda in 'The Dark Knight Rises'. 'I hated my father but since you killed him, you have to pay!" :D

Is Taray and the Guardians of Lightning mentioned in either the Second Human Book or on Tales of Arkain? I don't recall.

So I fear that there might be a civil war next chapter. Unless Grofzag finnaly gets fed up with Sasrogarn and leaves him, making him practically powerless.
 
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Shar Dundred

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Shar, what is your problem with Sasrogarn? Because you are clearly making him more unlikeable with every new chapter! Now we find out that he has been taking credit of others' accomplishments! Say whatever you want with van Durce or Duke Redfist but they at least reached their positions for being skilled in what they do!
You are saying that as if it is a bad thing. ;)
Van Durce is an arrogant bastard, but an effective one. Redfist is ah.... Well, he is Redfist, he knows how to get shit done.
Is Taray and the Guardians of Lightning mentioned in either the Second Human Book or on Tales of Arkain? I don't recall.
Not yet!
Yet. ;)
So I fear that there might be a civil war next chapter. Unless Grofzag finnaly gets fed up with Sasrogarn and leaves him, making him practically powerless.
Could you blame Grofzag if he did that?
 
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Sas, no matter how incompetent, I feel bad for. Well, at least he won't have to worry about anything pretty soon. All the kingdom takeovers and invasion repelling will be done by someone else.
The reveal to Amari and Grofzag came a bit earlier than I expected. 2 heroes and their reinforcements are always welcome, but I thought it would happen in interlude 4. Guess another surprise may be awaiting us then.

Could you blame Grofzag if he did that?
Well, I mean he is betraying a frien... ''his close friend Sasrogarn - the friendship being the one thing whispered to be the only mistake he has ever made''
Nevermind. That turned it from a yes to a no.
 
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Sas, no matter how incompetent, I feel bad for.

Feel bad for him?

van Durce and Duke Redist are more worthy of your pity than him. van Durce had some admirable traits and he felt regret for what he had done and Redfist had a dark past that explains his current personality, even if he clearly went overboad.

The reveal to Amari and Grofzag came a bit earlier than I expected. 2 heroes and their reinforcements are always welcome, but I thought it would happen in interlude 4.

They were wise and clever enough to go and warn them right after the incident. Having a part of your forces unaware of the current situation is something that should be avoided. Plus, Sasrogarn could have taken advantage to claim control over the Dominion.
 
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In conclusion to chapter eleven, besides Grofzag ( who will most likely betray Sasrogarn ) i don t see anyone else to support Sas.
I first thought about Oneye,him being very loyal towards Rangul ,like a moral duty to fight for his son aswell but that theory ended now.
Zairmak is questionable, and probably Pechan if Sasrogarn tries to bribe him somehow (don t think Pechan cares to much as long as he gets money )
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

So four(five) chapters, one interlude and one epilogue remaining.

Wow. It took 1 year (well, outside of your big hiatus) to finish SHB, and it took what, 2-3 months here.

Anyways, where did Zora go?
 
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So four(five) chapters, one interlude and one epilogue remaining.

Wow. It took 1 year (well, outside of your big hiatus) to finish SHB, and it took what, 2-3 months here.

Anyways, where did Zora go?

She fled most likely.

It doesn't matter. Her fleets are gone and now that the Dominion forces are on the mainland any advantage she might still had means nothing.
 
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