Model section and Reforged

[The_Silent]

Since custom models for classic- and reforged Warcraft 3 vary so much in "quality", it is probably good to explore some different options for what should happen with the model section when we reach that point.

Also, the dreaded "wow export" discussion.

Should we have sections for each type, or should models meant for reforged have the "reforged" tag? Like the tag the reforged discussions have? Maybe accompanied with a "classic", and a "both" tag? Something like that?

Also, reforged model quality is probably on par with, or beyond, wow "quality". Should wow exports be allowed (obviously with <author> set to "Blizzard")

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I feel like pure WoW exports should still be prohibited. Not necessarily because they won't fit (and they won't), but because they are very lazy.

Nothing prevents users from exporting a WoW model and modifying it, essentially making their own artistic creation out of it. I always felt that the Hive modelling section was so good because models were always reviewed with artistic contribution in mind. And that shouldn't change imho.

Modelling artists should learn about creating models with normal and specular maps and adapt to the new quality level. It's not rocket science. And if anything fails, people can still use geomerging to make their own stuff, even if they completely lack the skills to build a model from scratch.

 

[The_Silent]

...

How about a separate section, forum, or other database interface?

 

[deepstrasz]

We don't have time to catch up to all these years that passed. I suggest a Blizzard rip models/skins at least until enough original ones start to be created and uploaded which would be some sort of Substandard.

 

[pyf]

As a consequence of WC3:R, will 'Director's cut' come back for 3D models?

 

[LordDz]

A wow section with models that are trimmed down of unused animations and given proper stand, stand ready, death, death decay animations would be nice.

 

[Archian]

How about a separate section, forum, or other database interface?

We plan on making some changes/upgrades to the resource section, including a seperate section for Warcraft 3: Reforged models. We also want to improve the search function and reintroduce the "Director's Cut" rating.

A wow section with models that are trimmed down of unused animations and given proper stand, stand ready, death, death decay animations would be nice.

We definitely don't want rule that option out. Seeing as WoW models are of higher quality and fits better in Reforged than in Classic. WoW models could quickly fill the need for imported resources in Reforged. We have already gotten confirmation from Blizzard that WoW exports are allowed within the World Editor.

However, if we are to go down this path the WoW model must be properly optimized and certain criteria must be met. A standard procedure should be made with a guide and everything to avoid having TONS of lacking WoW models i.e. if we do this, do it properly.

WoW models cannot get a Director's Cut rating, only original work are eligible for that rating. Still people who go through the trouble of exporting and optimizing WoW models should be awarded for their time. So reputation points can be given to a person who has properly exported and optimized a WoW model.

And of course, WoW models would get a seperate section as well.

@Ralle

 

[Triceron]

What about HOTS, D3 or SC2 assets?

I know many of these are already usable in SC2, just wondering if they would be usable in WC3R. This would open up a huge amount of assets, potentially even spell effects if they carry over. Most of the spells in HOTS could work straight up in WC3R.

 

[Ralle]

I think we should have a separate section for WC3R because a standard model is crap in R and an R model is crap in standard. For standard you want a low poly model, a high poly model is a waste. For R you want a high poly model and a standard poly model looks like tetris.

 

[The_Silent]

What if I want to upload high-res And classic-res versions of the same model?

@Ralle @Archian

 

[Ralle]

Yes. That is a good point. We should have a checkbox or way to identify what is reforged and what is not and keep a single section.

Am I right to understand that if you already made the reforged version it should be simple to down-poly it? Otherwise it shouldn't be too much of an issue having separate sections I guess.

 

[Mister_Haudrauf]

Yes. That is a good point. We should have a checkbox or way to identify what is reforged and what is not and keep a single section.

Am I right to understand that if you already made the reforged version it should be simple to down-poly it? Otherwise it shouldn't be too much of an issue having separate sections I guess.

What if I want to upload high-res And classic-res versions of the same model?

@Ralle @Archian

Keep it separate. Just link the other model in the description or link it via assets. That way we can keep the Classic section clean of reforged (highpoly) models and the reforged section clean of classic (lowpoly) models.

It's the same way that the Nexus forum does with Skyrim (Oldrim) and Skyrim SE. They are basically the same game, but with slight differences.

 

[Himperion]

A wow section with models that are trimmed down of unused animations and given proper stand, stand ready, death, death decay animations would be nice.

To work this needs a very anal Mod to deal with that stuff.

On the top of my head these are the main flaws of WoW models ripped everywhere.

Bad deletion of animations, as only they remove the name, instead of frames.
Making the first and last frame on every animation the same.
Optimization of frames per animation, WC3 still need far less frames than a WoW model.
Removal of unused attachments points.
Removal of attachment bones for sets of armors.
Removal of empty bones.
Adding a hitbox.
Adding proper extends.
Adding Blood effects, and Sound effects.
Adding Team glow.
Naming the bones of the freaking skeleton.

All of this is for functionality only. You can reduce a 3M model to 200Kb with that list.

 

[Dr Super Good]

StarCraft II has used WC3 models with little problem. I think WC3R will be in a similar situation. Hence I do not think any change is needed except possibly for future models.

 

[Archian]

To work this needs a very anal Mod to deal with that stuff.

On the top of my head these are the main flaws of WoW models ripped everywhere.

Bad deletion of animations, as only they remove the name, instead of frames.
Making the first and last frame on every animation the same.
Optimization of frames per animation, WC3 still need far less frames than a WoW model.
Removal of unused attachments points.
Removal of attachment bones for sets of armors.
Removal of empty bones.
Adding a hitbox.
Adding proper extends.
Adding Blood effects, and Sound effects.
Adding Team glow.
Naming the bones of the freaking skeleton.

All of this is for functionality only. You can reduce a 3M model to 200Kb with that list.

Thats why a tutorial or guide is needed on how to export wow models properly. Anyone qualified or willing to write such a detailed tutorial?

 

[SadisticLeprechaun]

I certainly hope WoW models are not prohibited especially for a while. There will be a website that will host them, it should be here instead of a 2nd rate competitor site that I sadly would have to go to looking for more models, as would many others . . don't count WoW models out because people are lazy. Some people have a busy life and can't work on models all day, so lets get some cheap medium-quality models from WoW in there for game launch. Higher quality models that have dozens of man hours on animations will push them out anyhow and take their place.

 

[Rui]

Should wow exports be allowed (obviously with <author> set to "Blizzard")

However, if we are to go down this path the WoW model must be properly optimized and certain criteria must be met. A standard procedure should be made with a guide and everything to avoid having TONS of lacking WoW models i.e. if we do this, do it properly.

I'm surprised the «are WoW exports allowed?» discussion has resurfaced. In 2011, I wrote a batch of rules that allowed WoW (or any other Blizzard game) ports in the SC2 section, provided they were adjusted to fit the destination environment. It was written so, because: 1) we reached the conclusion Blizzard wouldn't copyright sue itself, and 2) Blizzard were themselves salvaging parts of artistic resources between their games. This principle is easily deducible to a hypothetical Reforged model section. Hence why I'm puzzled about the deep philosophizing going on in this thread. Has there been a retrogress in the rules since that day?

EDIT: Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm totally for a WoW export section whose contents have been modified to fit into WC3:R.

 

[Tauer]

I definitely think the model sections should be kept separate. Anything else would be silly in my opinion.

I don't see why WoW exports shouldn't be allowed, provided they've had some proper editing done to them. No different from geomerging WC3 models to be honest. If some WoW models can provide map makers with even more options for their maps, I'm all for that.

 

[Archian]

We are gonna have a WoW exports section.

I have also asked Blizzard about exports from Heroes of the Storm.

 

[deepstrasz]

I have also asked Blizzard about exports from Heroes of the Storm.

Don't forget StarCraft II, please!
Thanks for doing this @Archian.

 

[Archian]

I still need someone to come up with a detailed guide on how to properly export and optimize WoW models for Warcraft 3. A person with extensive knowlegde on 3D modeling tools, Warcraft 3 models and WoW models is preferred I guess.

@Tauer @The_Silent

 

[deepstrasz]

I still need someone to come up with a detailed guide on how to properly export and optimize WoW models for Warcraft 3. A person with extensive knowlegde on 3D modeling tools, Warcraft 3 models and WoW models is preferred I guess.

[Guide] WoW to Wc3 Model Conversion

[Guide] Importing Warcraft 3 Models Into WoW *Not for Beginners*

Spoiler: videos

 

[The_Silent]

...

I know nothing about wow models to be honest.

 

[YourArthas]

I still need someone to come up with a detailed guide on how to properly export and optimize WoW models for Warcraft 3. A person with extensive knowlegde on 3D modeling tools, Warcraft 3 models and WoW models is preferred I guess.

@Tauer @The_Silent

Hello I'm the global moderator of the warcraft underground website: Oops, there was an error! | Warcraft Underground

I talked with Henry(sites adminastor and owner) we can help about this topic and we can gladly move our resources to the WoW exports section, we also have HoTS ripping knowladge too, so we can surely help and make that WoW and HoTS exports sections

 

[Tauer]

I still need someone to come up with a detailed guide on how to properly export and optimize WoW models for Warcraft 3. A person with extensive knowlegde on 3D modeling tools, Warcraft 3 models and WoW models is preferred I guess.

@Tauer @The_Silent

I know nothing about wow models to be honest.

Gotta admit that it's not my strong suit either. I pretty much work exclusively with my own models in 3Ds Max, so I'm not even that knowledgeable in other WC3 modeling tools.

 

[Chaosy]

I do not mind if database gets split, or if it stays the same with a reforge tag or something.
However
I am concerned about the navigation as having two model links will be annoying. Or it becomes hidden like the sc2 section.

 

[Ralle]

Just leaving this here

Howdy Gents,

It’s been too long, hope things are well for you. We’ve finally convinced our Legal team to allow you to host assets from other Blizzard games on your site for use in War3. Their stipulations:

· Do not host assets from other games

· User created and submitted assets are fine, but the user should be able to prove they have created the asset

· Hosted Blizzard assets should be credited as such and it should be stated they are for use within War3 or other Blizzard products only

Hope that’s good news.

Thank you for your time,

Pete Stilwell

 

[deepstrasz]

"Do not host assets from other games"
Unless we have the legal rights to? I mean, Blizzard ain't gonna check all our maps of which some have models ripped from other games, you know.

 

[pyf]

Just leaving this here

Howdy Gents,

[...] We’ve finally convinced our Legal team to allow you to host assets from other Blizzard games on your site for use in War3. Their stipulations:

· Do not host assets from other games

· User created and submitted assets are fine, but the user should be able to prove they have created the asset

[...]

Hope that’s good news.

Thank you for your time,

Pete Stilwell

Now, does the Blizzard Legal team think they own the Hive as well as its content creators?

 

[Power]

Hello guys. Owner of Warcraft Underground. Ralle brought some very good news . If you are interested about WoW Modeling and Rips we can provide you with anything you want!

Long Live WC3.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Now, does the Blizzard Legal team think they own the Hive as well as its content creators?

Cough.

 

[Archian]

Hello guys. Owner of Warcraft Underground. Ralle brought some very good news . If you are interested about WoW Modeling and Rips we can provide you with anything you want!

Long Live WC3.

Hello there! Welcome

Well, we need a detailed guide on how to export WoW models (tools needed etc.) how to make them compatible with Warcraft 3, how to optimize them i.e. remove any unesscary files and animations, how to add a portrait to the model etc.

@General Frank any input here?

@FerSZ has already agreed to help out with the optimization part of the guide.

 

[Power]

Almost every year we create some tutorials, but now me and some fellow underground members can create a perfect one, You can wait some days and we will provide you everything

 

[Archian]

create a perfect one,

Excellent! That's what we need. If approved by the site administration & modeling moderation team, it will be featured in our upcoming Blizzard Exports section under WoW Exports as a Sticky Post.

You can wait some days and we will provide you everything

Of course! Looking forward to it
You can start working on it here: Tutorial Submission

We appreciate your help!

 

[General Frank]

Hello there! Welcome

Well, we need a detailed guide on how to export WoW models (tools needed etc.) how to make them compatible with Warcraft 3, how to optimize them i.e. remove any unesscary files and animations, how to add a portrait to the model etc.

@General Frank any input here?

@FerSZ has already agreed to help out with the optimization part of the guide.

I would like to have a strong separation of our current model model base, upcoming Reforged models and WOW export.
I'm not speaking about tags, I am speaking of a whole new section for them.
I feel that mixing them will make some people lose faith in the current system and Hive in general, but if we manage to make every section as clear as possible to be distinguished by the kind of resources are in it should be fine.

 

[Archian]

I am speaking of a whole new section for them.

That's the plan

 

[Chaosy]

Now, does the Blizzard Legal team think they own the Hive as well as its content creators?

At first I thought that seemed a bit out of place too.
But as I thought about it, it sort of makes sense.

If Blizzard allows the upload of models to a third party website, it means that they support it.
Of course they do not want support a site which hosts stolen things that they do not have the right to upload.

Do not host assets from other games

I suppose they mean RIPS from other games, not a model section for another game.

 

[deepstrasz]

I suppose they mean RIPS from other games, not a model section for another game.

Surely otherwise, Blizz RIPs were a thing before too so, I don't think they can do much about it anyway especially when this site is one of if not the the most central Warcraft III supporting ones.

 

[Ether]

Yeah, like the models section has two categories like #Classic and #Reforged, well, what if the model or content is for both games?

 

[Power]

Well we uploaded a tutorial WoW Ripping Tutorial - Creature/ , Please give us your feedback so we can improve it more!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

After giving it another thought, I changed my mind about this.

A WoW rip category might help us over the time in which new model resources with the improved quality are scarce. And while I will go through the effort to create my own designs for heroes in my map, it might be useful to base them off an existing model for faster prototyping at first.

And I'd rather have a WoW rip section on hive with proper quality control than having to search on shady other sites to get sub-par rips.

 

[Archian]

And I'd rather have a WoW rip section on hive with proper quality control than having to search on shady other sites to get sub-par rips.

This.