Mod Suggestion

[Airandius]

We all know that there is a lack of moderators on Hive.
Now Purplepoot is leaving as a moderator, meaning an other pillar of support is leaving us.
We should open up a place where people can volunteer for a position as a moderator like many people said, but how do you know when somebody could be a good mod or a bad mod?
Make them moderate but give them no power for a period of testing, if they deliver good work they can get a position.

However I'm not here to point out the obvious, I have an other (perhaps better) suggestions.
I have only been active for a short while on the forums (around a month or 2) eventhough I made this account a year or so ago.

I like to moderate resources to help people improve their work, I don't care I have no power to approve or disapprove resources.
This is where my suggestion realy starts.

People can report posts so the moderators don't have to look for bad posts all the time.
We can give reputation when we have 10 ourselves, it's a way to show who are good and who are bad.
Why not do the same for resources!

People with a good amount of reputation can vote for a resource to be either approved or disapproved along with a description why.
This way a moderator can check these to make it more easy to approve or disaprove a resource. Reducing the amount of work they have to do, making it possible for them to moderate more.

This could very well be a (short term) solution in this period that is lacking good moderators.

~ Airandius

 

[donut3.5]

We already have minimods which do that job, however it's pretty useless since we still have to test everything out ingame and give a valid opinion.
--donut3.5--

 

[HINDYhat]

This is basically what minimods are for.

Don't forget, not everyone is qualified to decide what should be approved/ignored in our resource sections.

EDIT: DAMN YOU DONUT!

 

[Airandius]

(Had no clue we had mini-mods since this is the first time I hear about them.)

But you could give the minimods more power right? It could we worth a shot in these 'dark' times.
It's not looking to good in my opinion, the future of Hive that is.

 

[Rui]

(...)
Now Purplepoot is leaving as a moderator (...)

He is?

(...)
We should open up a place where people can volunteer for a position as a moderator like many people said, but how do you know when somebody could be a good mod or a bad mod?
Make them moderate but give them no power for a period of testing, if they deliver good work they can get a position.

We don't make people moderators because they want.
The problem is, the majority of the people can't rest until they get their staff position, when all they want is the power and not the work. There seems to be some kind of irrational lust for power among them that I can't understand.

What we need is people who are both willing to do the job and have a decent level of competence to do it. I don't think I need to mention how it is hard to find someone for the Map Section. Yes, you really need to appreciate downloading Maps and testing them and accept that 90% of the time (if not more) you will run into a low-quality work.

I like to moderate resources to help people improve their work, I don't care I have no power to approve or disapprove resources.
This is where my suggestion realy starts.

To be honest, I don't like the "mini-moderator" thing. I think "mini-judge" feels a little more appropriate. Candidature to mini-judge positions would be alright, with no direct or indirect promises of promotions. By "indirect" I mean you should discard the thought of "(I'm a mini-judge/moderator! I'm a step closer to staff position!)".

People can report posts so the moderators don't have to look for bad posts all the time.
(...)

This is why we have a Report Post button, and it exists on resources too.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Ain't know one who meets the requirements anymore. Most of the people would just fuck around, or abuse the power. The quilified user show up only but once a month. There is little that can be done.

 

[Rui]

Once a month? We'd be lucky if that was the case. I'd rather say once a year. PurplePoot and I spent the whole Summer searching for someone decent for Map moderation, and I can tell you we found little to no candidates (PurplePoot found some, but I quickly discarded them).

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Once a month? We'd be lucky if that was the case. I'd rather say once a year.

Tell me about it. Some sign up and never login period. Thats a good topic.
I think that is why Ash was reasigned. I hear he was pretty good back in the day.If more of the current mods would cover multiple fields, that might increase the efficiency.

 

[Airandius]

He is?

Well this tread has him saying he does not like to moderate anymore.

We don't make people moderators because they want.
The problem is, the majority of the people can't rest until they get their staff position, when all they want is the power and not the work. There seems to be some kind of irrational lust for power among them that I can't understand.

I know.. most people can't live with power, it's a human thing.. get power and abuse it. Not everybody is like that though. People that don't care about power but care about duty.. they are good for the job and sadly peopel liek that don't have tiem to hang around on forums.

What we need is people who are both willing to do the job and have a decent level of competence to do it. I don't think I need to mention how it is hard to find someone for the Map Section. Yes, you really need to appreciate downloading Maps and testing them and accept that 90% of the time (if not more) you will run into a low-quality work.

Well, it's one of the things moderators have to deal with. Perhaps it's that why serious people don't like to become a real mod.

To be honest, I don't like the "mini-moderator" thing. I think "mini-judge" feels a little more appropriate. Candidature to mini-judge positions would be alright, with no direct or indirect promises of promotions. By "indirect" I mean you should discard the thought of "(I'm a mini-judge/moderator! I'm a step closer to staff position!)".

I don't see myself as a mini-mod or a mini-judge, I'm just this guy that likes to help people and I hardly care if they can't take the comments I make about their resource or about the fact I have no power.
I don't need power, I just suggest and try to help people because I don't like people being bad at making maps or w/e resource =). Nor do I like people that give comments like: "Ah this sucks go away blablalbla." They ain't usefull at all.

This is why we have a Report Post button, and it exists on resources too.

I gues...

 

[Hakeem]

There was a time that I would have been willing to moderate maps. Back when I was new to WC3 and modding.

That time has long since passed.

To me, it seems like the kind of thing that would require cycling of moderators.

 

[Airandius]

Well, what about this then..
Go look at map section for people that make very good maps as an averige.
Like a guy has 3 recommended maps and 1 sub-zero map, why not ask this guy to moderate maps because at least you know he ain't a 'noob' so to call.

 

[donut3.5]

Skill != responsibility.
--donut3.5--

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Well, what about this then..
Go look at map section for people that make very good maps as an averige.
Like a guy has 3 recommended maps and 1 sub-zero map, why not ask this guy to moderate maps because at least you know he ain't a 'noob' so to call.

Skill has nothing to do with it. Just because I might make a good map doesn't mean I would be a great moderator. If the person isn't responsiable, then skill really doesn't help the matter. Funny you say "not a noob". A "noob" might be a better moderator then most experianced people, because they know what is expected of them, and will take their job with responsibility. "Noob" or advanced, that is the requiem of a moderator, and unfortunatly, most of those who meet that requiem, as I said, show but only once a month or so.

 

[Septimus]

Some of us mod are extremely busy with our daily life and moderating some map could be a tedious job that could took up to 2 hours. If we make a quick review, we possibly won't found some hidden bug.

The sad thing is, many ungrateful and irresponsible user constantly request the mod to review their approve resources just because the old review no longer accurate due to major update.

Once we review it for second time, they want more and so on.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

I see your point Septimus. The problem is, most users don't even check for bugs because they know the moderators will do it for them. If you plan to release a resource, make sure it is perfect, or with minimual bugs. It should be the artists responsibility to list the changes to their map, as it should need only one moderation because if you are updating it, It should only be better. There is no need for more then one report unless it goes from unapprove, to approved. This should be a rule as this bullshit is a wast of time.

 

[Airandius]

Well then apply the rules, only working maps (meaning a map that has left the beta stage) will be moderated.
As a second rule there must be prove that map has been tested for bugs.

If the map is still in beta or alpha, or if the map has not been tested you should leave it pending.

Either that or you add rules that it's not allowed to submit uncomplete maps.
Might be harsh but this will reduce the amount of work.

 

[Septimus]

I certainly agree, even I often test my map before release it... but..

Sigh* some people would never learn.. they expect somebody else to check it for them.. they think us map mod as chop liver.

Once they failed to get a new review, they delete and re-upload their resources as a new one. Which is a total waste of our mod time and bandiwith of this website.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

As far as I see it, It is not that there is little moderators, it is the fact that others think they can bullshit the moderators with constant updates. There should be a tag, that when updated, this tag informs users and moderators alike. An updated map should recieve no moderation unless it is leaving the unapproved stage.

 

[Septimus]

Well then apply the rules, only working maps (meaning a map that has left the beta stage) will be moderated.
As a second rule there must be prove that map has been tested for bugs.

If the map is still in beta or alpha, or if the map has not been tested you should leave it pending.

Either that or you add rules that it's not allowed to submit uncomplete maps.
Might be harsh but this will reduce the amount of work.

Unfortunately, only 1% out of 100% of the map that exist in WC3 could only be consider as gold version.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Like I said you can't judge skill.

 

[Airandius]

I certainly agree, even I often test my map before release it... but..

It's the best thing to do, I do so myself with some friends.
At least then I know if a map is good enough.

Sigh* some people would never learn.. they expect somebody else to check it for them.. they think us map mod as chop liver.

Once they failed to get a new review, they delete and re-upload their resources as a new one. Which is a total waste of our mod time and bandiwith of this website.

My opinion:
- Remove the download button for users so they can't delete it themselfs.
When the map is offending or just plain bad, and then I realy mean bad.. Moderaters will be the only ones able to remove it.
- If you are not going to remove the download button or it's not possible you should just ignore maps that are deleted and reuploaded.

As far as I see it, It is not that there is little moderators, it is the fact that others think they can bullshit the moderators with constant updates. There should be a tag, that when updated, this tag informs users and moderators alike. An updated map should recieve no moderation unless it is leaving the unapproved stage.

Well, that's a good idea but in my opinion there should be 2 stages where it will get a moderation.
- It will get a moderation when its uploaded for the first time.
- It will be re-moderated when it reaches 'gold' version, you know when a map is 101% complete and will never recieve updates. But it has a lower moderation priorety then first uploaded maps.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

I agree. We have that solved, but now what to do when the try to re upload it? How to dectect that?

 

[Septimus]

We mod have a special function that enable us to detect a resources whether it have been re-upload or not.

I have been requesting Ralle to implement a system that prevent user from deleting approve resources, but Ralle ignored it by saying the user have the right to delete their own resources.

I agree with him, but some irresponsible user abuse it for this purpose.

1) To get new review
2) To bump to front pages
3) To get better rating

I also have request him to give us map mod more authority such as banning violator from upload any resources in the future if they constantly doing that, but this have been ignored as well.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Moderators should be the only ones to be able to delete a resource by request of the artist, in order to hold control of a situation. Ralle is correct a user does have the permission, to delete their resource, but when they pull shit like that, they only hurt themselves, and the privalege.

 

[Septimus]

Currently, the best way to remove a mass amount of pending map is to implement this system.

1) Delete approve resources only could be done by moderator.
2) User are not allowed to upload more than 2 map in within 24 hours.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

24 hours? why not 48? it should take time to approve a map.

 

[Captain Griffen]

The removal of my right to delete my resources at my discretion will result in legal take down notices being sent, with non-compliance resulting in contacting the THW ISP to have the site shut down for copyright violation. I have not, and will not, grant THW the eternal right to host my maps, and I'm sure many others feel the same. Arbitarily changing that cannot be done within the law.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Captain Griffen, :fail:
The Hive is giving you the right to host the map. You are not giving the Hive anything but the map. There is no legal process here. This is about helping the mods, not your so called rights.

 

[Airandius]

Why would one delete a resource anyway? There is a perfect way to update maps.

If u upload a bad map, tough luck and make it better by updating it.
If u upload a good map.. why delete it.. it's good right?

If you just want a better rating then don't upload maps of bad quality.
If u want more dls then just attach your map section in your signature and become popular.

If you realy want your map being removed you can just ask a mod to do it.

__________________________________________________________________________

For these reasons I agree with Septimus and Sergeant Ray.
Remove the delete button!

Also the limit of maps you can upload is a good idea because you can't make a good quality map in a day.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Why would one delete a resource anyway? There is a perfect way to update maps.

If u upload a bad map, tough luck and make it better by updating it.
If u upload a good map.. why delete it.. it's good right?

If you just want a better rating then don't upload maps of bad quality.
If u want more dls then just attach your map section in your signature and become popular.

If you realy want your map being removed you can just ask a mod to do it.

__________________________________________________________________________

For these reasons I agree with Septimus and Sergeant Ray.
Remove the delete button!

Also the limit of maps you can upload is a good idea because you can't make a good quality map in a day.

Agree. There should not be a map delete, You uploaded a piece of shit, it is your fault. You get one moderation, two only if the map is moving from unapproved to approved. Instead of creating more work for the moderators, take responsibility for what you uploaded. There is no reason that a user should have this much power over the forums, these right give them power over the staff. Maby if Ralle would moderate maps, he would understand how you feel.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Captain Griffen, :fail:
The Hive is giving you the right to host the map. You are not giving the Hive anything but the map. There is no legal process here. This is about helping the mods, not your so called rights.

You're wrong, I'm not giving the hive anything more than the temporary right to host the map. There is a legal process in everything, whether you like it or not. THW does not have the right to unilaterally and retroactively remove my right to remove my map from its servers.

 

[Septimus]

However, as far as I am concern. We post a rules & regulation of where a user could read them before they upload their resources.

If we visit any website, there is usually a rules and regulation which we have to abide the moment we gain access into it.

And even though a delete function have been remove from the user, the user itself could request it from mod/admin to remove their map as long as they provide a good reason and would not re-upload it in the future.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

You're wrong, I'm not giving the hive anything more than the temporary right to host the map. There is a legal process in everything, whether you like it or not. THW does not have the right to unilaterally and retroactively remove my right to remove my map from its servers.

When dumbass users take advantage of it, it is a problem, and since the Hive is hosting the project, they decide how it will host.
You are correct you giving the Hive permission to host, but at the same time, The Hive is providing a place for the Map to be hosted, and have the right to decide where and how it will be hosted.
The hive is giving you permission to host there as well.

 

[Septimus]

When dumbass users take advantage of it, it is a problem, and since the Hive is hosting the project, they decide how it will host.
You are correct you giving the Hive permission to host, but at the same time, The Hive is providing a place for the Map to be hosted, and have the right to decide where and how it will be hosted.
The hive is giving you permission to host there as well.

This is quite a valid point, if a person doesn't like the website. Why should they register and upload their resources over the website at the beginning ? They could have just make their own website and host it themselves.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Why should they register and upload their resources over the website at the beginning ?

My thoughts exactly.

Just remove the users' ability to remove maps on their own and tell them to PM a moderator/administrator to do so. If it becomes a frequent thing, the administrator/moderator will know about it before it happens and can then backhand the idiot that's trying to delete/reupload his maps for higher votes/reviews. Done and done.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Yea, delete that delete button.

I once deleted a map when I was trying to update it(they are so close to each other). :<

 

[Sergeant Ray]

The hosting site has to have restraints over what you can do. If you would have control over the forums simply because it is your resource, then I feel sorry for Septimus and all the other moderators because it would be complete chaos. You choose to host it at a site, so that site has just as much right to control where it goes and how it will be hosted. You can't hold all the power. Without the site, it would never make public. They actually have more rights then you.
Captain Griffen :fail:
Sarge, Septimus :win:
End

 

[Septimus]

The hosting site has to have restraints over what you can do. If you would have control over the forums simply because it is your resource, then I feel sorry for Septimus and all the other moderators because it would be complete chaos. You choose to host it at a site, so that site has just as much right to control where it goes and how it will be hosted. You can't hold all the power. Without the site, it would never make public. They actually have more rights then you.
Captain Griffen :fail:
Sarge, Septimus :win:
End

It is a big problem for all map moderator right now as the delete function have been abuse, but ralle doesn't do anything about it.

Off topic* : Aeroblyctos, how did you do that ? Cause when the delete button have been click, there would be a pop-up message.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

I'm sorry but Ralle need to pay more attention.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Captain Griffen :fail:
Sarge, Septimus :win:

By sheer virtue that you are posting things as belligerent and ignorant as this you are negating any credibility you might have ever had. If you want people to take you seriously, you should consider showing a little more dignity and respect in your posts.

 

[Septimus]

Off Topic* : I hope both side won't start any flame war here, as the issue that are discuss is on how to make the moderating much efficient.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

By sheer virtue that you are posting things as belligerent and ignorant as this you are negating any credibility you might have ever had. If you want people to take you seriously, you should consider showing a little more dignity and respect in your posts.

Maby you should shut up and post something beneficial to this thread.

 

[Airandius]

It is a big problem for all map moderator right now as the delete function have been abuse, but ralle doesn't do anything about it.

It's pointless in discussing this mather, the delete button should be removed in order to reduce the strain on map moderators and to increase the overal quality of hive.
We should all ask Ralle to remove the delete button, so here it goes:

Ralle, please remove the delete button because it does more bad then good!

 

[Septimus]

Please don't start any flame war, keep the thread clean and healthy. Thanks for your cooperation.

As for the delete function, it really need to be remove.
And probably that make a new register user unable to upload resources until 10 days have pass could be useful as well to reduce the que.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

I have no intention of a flame war. I am simply tired of the "professional" annotations I am recieving when I try to uphold a conversation. If it gets out of hand you are more then welcome to step in.
If I may, we really, really need to bring this to Ralle's attention, if he will listen to us. The deleat button is the entire problem, and setback of the resource section.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I have no intention of a flame war.

Maby you should shut up and post something beneficial to this thread.

I rest my case.

Just remove the users' ability to remove maps on their own and tell them to PM a moderator/administrator to do so. If it becomes a frequent thing, the administrator/moderator will know about it before it happens and can then backhand the idiot that's trying to delete/reupload his maps for higher votes/reviews. Done and done.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

I did not start anything, as it was you who encouraged offtopic discussion and I simply tried to stop that. Septimus if you would, end this bullshit, and the grudge held over me.
Now what are we going to do to aware Ralle of this issue? I suggest inviting him to the forums, as it is his responsibility to take action.

 

[Captain Griffen]

When dumbass users take advantage of it, it is a problem, and since the Hive is hosting the project, they decide how it will host.

Wrong. They don't. Its right to host it goes only so far as whatever agreements I make. I did not agree to a perpetual right for THW to host it, and nor would I. Your understanding of copyright law is incorrect. Refusing to permit people to remove their own work would be a serious violation of copyright law, particularly since THW has no ToS which give them that.

 

[Airandius]

Wrong. They don't. Its right to host it goes only so far as whatever agreements I make. I did not agree to a perpetual right for THW to host it, and nor would I. Your understanding of copyright law is incorrect. Refusing to permit people to remove their own work would be a serious violation of copyright law, particularly since THW has no ToS which give them that.

Your not understanding something here Captain.
If the delete button will be removed users can only remove their resource by requesting a mod to do it. There will be no such things as refusing not to remove it.
This is very usefull because people wont be able to abuse the delete option anymore. If you don't agree with this however you can find an other side I suppose.
Reducing the strain on moderations and increasing the overal quality of hive severely outweights the opinion of one person.

And to say it one more time: there will be an option to remove a deleted resource and that way is requesting a moderator to remove it.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

And you do realize these maps are created using blizzards programs, material, and art, therefore these maps are not technically yours. When we say that you should not have the right to remove material, we are talking about the idiots that try to upload again for more credit. those who plan to delete it for absent purpose have every right, as long as it abides by site rules. The site has every right to dictate how it will be uploaded, as you choose to use that site to host it on. If you dislike the rules, well then as chat says GTFO.
Now stop trying to best me when you have long ago failed.