Mini-game Mapping Contest

[Tleno]

I do support the idea of filesize minimalism. I mean you can make an excelent map with no immports at all, and you rearely need to replace everything. This is minigame, not total coversion contest, people!

 

[Grievous1]

I do support the idea of filesize minimalism. I mean you can make an excelent map with no immports at all, and you rearely need to replace everything. This is minigame, not total coversion contest, people!

If you don't want to import something than don't do it but the option to import 3mb should be open (I don't think 1mb more will hurts) and the paired option should be don't removed in my opinion.

 

[Tleno]

Well yeah, 3MB is pretty average for a good custom map, why now then?

 

[wolfman]

So we are allowed to import models and such?
and is this gonna get approved anytime soon? lol

 

[Zeatherann]

Imports of any and all kinds are allowed, but the map file size is capped at 2Mb, a minigame should be able to be downloaded within a minute.

Keeping the option for paired or solo.

Bugging pyrite (sent a pm) to get it approved.

 

[Raven0]

@Raven0: So you think it would matter?

Sorry I misread what you wrote. Grammatically that sentence can be taken two different ways.

Not trying to be the grammar-police or anything ^-^
_____________________________

I think a 2mb filesize is stupid but w/a. A "mini-game" is a game that can be setup and played very quickly and does not feature any sort of storymode. There are online mini-games that are tower defense maps, some are combat arenas, others are things like pacman or frogger. The prefix "mini" has nothing to do with the filesize.

Going Green - How well does your map make use of limited space. /20

This field should be removed. A restriction has already been put on the map size, how "well" designers use the space will be seen in the fluidity, aesthetics, and enjoyability of the game.

Eye Candy - Does the map look appealing from start to finish? Does the look change at all or is it static? /20

This category should be renamed to something more fitting like "aesthetics" and the last sentence should be removed because even if a games "look" is static that does not necessarily mean it has poor aesthetics.

Concept - The basic idea your map is built around. /25

You need to reword this. I don't think judges will have a general concensus when grading this category. Are they grading the concept on originality, creativity, or what?

Funness - Is your map fun enough to be played multiple times a day? /35

Title should probably be changed to something like "enjoyability" and it should simply be graded on how fun and replayable the map is (not specifically "multiple times a day").

Playability - Overall fluidity of the map in game and on the transition between games. /20

This category should be more about if the game is bug-free or not and how efficient/leakless the coding is.


Other than those things I think the setup is good ^-^

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

@Raven0: I don't get why coding needs to be graded at all. If the coding sucks enough then it'll end up slowing down and/or crashing the map and that'll hurt the enjoyment and lower that "funness"-score. Why grade it on its own then?

If a map is made with GUI or has leaks which affects nothing, then I don't see how that matters at all. Coding for a map competition is means to an end - this is not a 1337 hax jass contest.

 

[Raven0]

@Raven0: I don't get why coding needs to be graded at all. If the coding sucks enough then it'll end up slowing down and/or crashing the map and that'll hurt the enjoyment and lower that "funness"-score. Why grade it on its own then?

If a map is made with GUI or has leaks which affects nothing, then I don't see how that matters at all. Coding for a map competition is means to an end - this is not a 1337 hax jass contest.

I wasn't intending to advocate that we count people down for using GUI, I just thought that memory leaks represent a negative aspect of gameplay as they can eventually cause lag or slow down the game.

But I do understand your point and actually agree, if there are programming leaks or inefficiencies that don't effect gameplay then there isn't really a reason to bring down people's scores. However if judges are experiencing slow gameplay for some reason then I think they should have the ability to check the code and find the problem and possibly mark down the contestant for it.

P.S. it's really difficult to read anything you write with your signiture RIGHT there

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

GUI != leaky, buggy triggers

That's just propaganda spread by the vJass crowd.
You can make perfectly fine, leakless triggering in GUI fairly easily so there's absolutely no reason to rate someone down for it.

Basically the jass crowd needs to get over their superiority complex - yes Jass is more efficient, but it's not like everyone has the time/patience to learn it, nor does it matter when you're actually playing the game as long as it works and lacks leaks (though you should know some jass script to get at functions not normally in GUI, basically learn what you need to get by - it's not necessarily all that important to code every little thing in it).

Also JNG is a pain in the ass to use anyway, constantly bugging and assortment of other annoyances. It used to be pretty convenient, but with all the bugs you get with it now and the workarounds to avoid them it's just easier to use the normal WE.

 

[Raven0]

GUI != leaky, buggy triggers

That's just propaganda spread by the vJass crowd.
You can make perfectly fine, leakless triggering in GUI fairly easily so there's absolutely no reason to rate someone down for it.

Again I was NOT trying to say that we should rate people down for using GUI or that you can't clean up leaks in GUI. I'm sorry if I came off that way, all I was INITIALLY saying is that code should be leak-free, bugless, and cause no errors.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Oh derp - "I wasn't intending to advocate that we count people down for using GUI"

Missed the "wasn't"

 

[Raven0]

Missed the "wasn't"

NP lol ^-^

 

[wolfman]

I agree that coding should be graded, because maybe theres errors in the code that might not be noticeable in certain situations when the map is being played.

Sometimes it takes playing it a bunch of times to find any bugs, but it should obviously be bug free, even if you dont notice the bugs right away.

By judging the code, you could more easily find any possible bugs/errors that could occur in the game.

 

[Zeatherann]

offtopic: finally someone sides with me on the pain of vjass and JNG.

ontopic: will revise the scoring fields, Raven0's "review" was just what i was waiting for.

sidenote: my sig?

Edit: the map's rating could be based on bugs and/or lag, but if there is a leak that doesn't affect anything in a noticeable way then does it matter? (like the init trigger not being destroyed).

 

[Crazed_seal2]

When is this getting hosted...

 

[Tleno]

offtopic: finally someone sides with me on the pain of vjass and JNG.

ontopic: will revise the scoring fields, Raven0's "review" was just what i was waiting for.

sidenote: my sig?

Edit: the map's rating could be based on bugs and/or lag, but if there is a leak that doesn't affect anything in a noticeable way then does it matter? (like the init trigger not being destroyed).

I think he meant ragingspeedhorn or Wherewolf, both's signatures are animated, while your is just a plain quote from chatroom.

PS: seriously, contact Dragonson and Bladetitan team, they'll pimp your sig, just like mine.

 

[wolfman]

Edit: the map's rating could be based on bugs and/or lag, but if there is a leak that doesn't affect anything in a noticeable way then does it matter? (like the init trigger not being destroyed).

I dont think any and all leaks in the map should be counted against you, like if there is one location leak or something, thats pretty negligible. But if there are leaks in triggers that run multiple times during gameplay, then that could eventually start to cause lag depending on how many times it leaks. So i think that stuff like that, things that might be noticeable during gameplay, should be counted against you

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I think he meant ragingspeedhorn or Wherewolf, both's signatures are animated, while your is just a plain quote from chatroom.

hahaha I'm not sure the animation is the main problem here...

 

[Zeatherann]

my sig's fine, i'l eventually draw my own. And yes, waiting for this to get approved.

Edit: changed contest dates

 

[PurgeandFire]

Sounds like a cool contest. I hope it gets approved.

 

[Tleno]

hahaha I'm not sure the animation is the main problem here...

Yes I was thinking to say that too, but could find suitable words...

my sig's fine, i'l eventually draw my own. And yes, waiting for this to get approved.

Edit: changed contest dates

Oh yes, finally we got some progress with it.
Already working on concept of my map, thinking about making it two-player/player vs AI, also decided some smaller detalils, like the background...

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Seeing as things are moving along - does anybody want to team up with me? I need a partner that's good at all that jass-coding voodoo. I'll handle terrain plus I've got a solid concept thought up that gives a new and hectic spin to partygames that I'm pretty sure hasn't been done before. It's also pretty minimalistic so shouldn't require all that much work to actually make.

 

[Raven0]

Seeing as things are moving along - does anybody want to team up with me? I need a partner that's good at all that jass-coding voodoo. I'll handle terrain plus I've got a solid concept thought up that gives a new and hectic spin to partygames that I'm pretty sure hasn't been done before. It's also pretty minimalistic so shouldn't require all that much work to actually make.

Sure, I do VJass

 

[Zeatherann]

ick vjass, i've had my map idea since a month before i posted this contest, so concept wise i ahead, already have the game done in C++ (which isn't against rules)

 

[baassee]

Medium or small map size (ie: 128x128).

Just post what sizes are not allowed like <256x256 instead as I have not a freaking clue about it. Or make it all below 64x64 or like Aero said, 32x32 would be a real challenge.

Multiplayer or Singleplayer.

So this means that RTC will be allowed if I go single player? (didn't read your arguments so detailed, just read thru the thread)

Any coding limits? I saw lots of discussions about it during the reading. vJASS/ZINC allowed?

And how about third-party programs? Are we allowed to use JNGP? Are we allowed to upload a protected map and an unprotected map (as if you widgetize and optimize the map it will run smoother when playing and since you have playing factor as a grading point, optimizing a map to run smoother would probably increase this).

Also saw something about judging the code? Is that a yes or no to that question?

 

[Zeatherann]

baassee, great questions;

vjass and JNG is allowed, posting a protected (optimized) and unprotected map is allowed and understandable (i remember the days when no one protected a map)

RtC, if it can be opened in the normal editor is allowed.

GUI (dug) JASS vJASS ZINC cJASS RtC GNJP are all allowed, others i may have missed are allowed too.

Personal Feelings

I feel these 3rd party programs provides an unfair advantage as they basically add 'training wheels' to your maps..

 

[Thrikodius]

Would it be allowed to make minor model edits for the map? And by minor I mean like renaming animations or replacing textures.
For Example if you want to change the texture on the Demon Hunter in demon form you might not want to change all models that use the Black32.blp texture.
Or maybe you want a both normal Footman and a Footman with a custom skin in the map.

 

[Tleno]

Well that was never ever forbidden before, the only limitation is that you can't edit other people's models or whatever without their permission.

 

[Zeatherann]

Yea, edit away within copyright limits, also as i've stated before you can import anything you want, as long as the map is under 2mb

 

[baassee]

and give credits

 

[Tleno]

So you actually decided to stick with 2mbs limit?

 

[baassee]

Why not? In mini-game, mini comes first.

 

[Zeatherann]

Zeatherann high fives baassee

Yea, I'm sticking to 2 Mb limit, I'm thinking of myself and anyone else with a slow internet like me on this one.

 

[Tleno]

Then why not make this a "Minimalism" contest? You know, no immports at all.

 

[Thrikodius]

Zeatherann high fives baassee

Yea, I'm sticking to 2 Mb limit, I'm thinking of myself and anyone else with a slow internet like me on this one.

Thrikodius high fives Zeatherann

 

[baassee]

You know, no immports at all.

This.

 

[Tleno]

Yea, I mean, we never had a minimalism contest before and it would be pretty challenging to make something without any immports.

 

[Zeatherann]

I'd agree to no imports if we agree to no 3rd party programs, which is probably a no.

 

[Raven0]

wtf? none of this makes any sense at all. 2mb limit or no imports at all, and now your considering no 3rd party programs. Why are you guys trying to make it harder to mod?

Going by this logic, we should force football players to balance buckets of water on their head while they run and wear backpacks filled with 50 lb weights.

 

[PurgeandFire]

2 MB is fine of a limit. No imports doesn't mean that it will be anymore of a minigame.

2 MB is just enough so that you can add a couple kb of imported stuff to suit your needs + maybe some nice music, but it is low enough so that you won't go crazy with imports. I think the contest is fine the way it is in its current state.

 

[Zeatherann]

Yes, as do i, and i was just making a statement of tit for tat, for the contest's rules and such refer to the first post.

Hopefully pyritie will approve this

 

[Thrikodius]

What I don't understand is why it's so hard to use GUI. But then I never used JASS and all that. Still I do fine with GUI and I don't consider myself all that limited.

 

[Tleno]

Why are you guys trying to make it harder to mod?

Going by this logic, we should force football players to balance buckets of water on their head while they run and wear backpacks filled with 50 lb weights.

Well, this would make the contest moe challenging of a task, I mean when you won't be able to add all the glowy blowy graphical stuff you'll have to immprovize more and concentrate on other gameplay aspects more...

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Or you can just do both if you are skilled enough.

 

[M0rbid]

Well, this would make the contest moe challenging of a task, I mean when you won't be able to add all the glowy blowy graphical stuff you'll have to immprovize more and concentrate on other gameplay aspects more...

so why do we mod instead of hiding from crazy sheeps with a stubborn paladin then ...

 

[Raven0]

Well, this would make the contest moe challenging of a task, I mean when you won't be able to add all the glowy blowy graphical stuff you'll have to immprovize more and concentrate on other gameplay aspects more...

But the contest doesn't need to be tougher. It's not you vs. the contest, it's you vs. all the other contestants.

Let's say i'm a 2d-artist and i'm joining this competition. I have a great theme idea for my map but none of the available interfaces really match the theme, so I wan't to make my own. You're saying I can't do that?

Let's say i'm a 3d-artist and i'm joining this competition. I have a racing grand prix idea for my map but it will require alot of imported car models and obstacle objects. You're saying I can't do this idea because importing all the custom models needed would most certainly make the map over 2mb.

Let's say i'm a VJasser and I want to code a projectiles system for some map idea I had because I want projectiles to collide and explode when they hit eachother. You're saying (since I don't have access to 3rd party programs) I have to code this in GUI or plain jass?

Honestly, I'll likely join this contest no matter what, but I just personally think that some of the restrictions you're putting on it are dumb and will invariably hamper the modding process.

 

[Zeatherann]

you can import stuff, and you don't need vJASS for projectiles (for proof check out of my system) and you can use anything you want, as long as it's under 2 Mb.

I realize how confusing the thread's gotten with off topic and extra questions that turn into arguments, the first post reflects the changes made and what the contest entails. It doesn't ban 3rd party fancies, so you can use them to fluff your map.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Okay, so to get this straight:

-2 mb size limit
-Any coding works fine
-You can use 3rd party editors

What I don't understand is why it's so hard to use GUI. But then I never used JASS and all that. Still I do fine with GUI and I don't consider myself all that limited.

People gotta find some way or another to feel superior and call others noobs, no?
Of course somethings it's more practical to use vJass or Jass but it's not like you need to do everything in them, basically just go whatever works best for you.

 

[baassee]

The thing about GUI is that when you learn JASS or vJASS and others you will notice how much easier it gets to code and also what performance losses GUI has if you're not good with the custom scripting and if you are, you can rather go JASSing.

Try to make T32 in JASS or New Table. Or why not Status? Have fun with your time, I will with mine.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I actually did learn Jass and vJass, but JNG is such a buggy pain to use that it's just quicker for me to use GUI