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IID Beta v0.88b


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v0.88b Beta

The continuity of time has been broken. For unknown reasons, the Infinite Dragonflight manipulated the events of history, and created an alternative reality. With Nozdormu, the Timeless still missing, and the Bronze Dragonflight locked in battle with the corruptors, Azeroth’s fate is once again in the hand of the mortal races. If the Burning Legion breaks through the desperate defense lines of the Last Alliance, not only the present is lost, but the past and the future might cease to exist as well. It’s up to you, brave champions to decide the outcome of the final battle. Choose your side and boldly hold the lines against the tide of darkness, or wreak havoc among your enemies…

[This map is protected. Usage of its code and all custom resources in other maps is not allowed!]

[size="-1"]Clicking on the house icons takes you back to the menu.[/size]
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Invasion in Duskwood is a 5v5 AoS map, that uses the same terrain structure that our famous DotA does. However, gameplay-wise it really differs; it has shorter cooldowns, acceptible mana-sustain - spells are much more important in general. It also has some other cool features; you should read about all of them below!

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The whole story is placed in time around the Second War. The story begins with the duel of a human mage and a demonic spellcaster (eredar or nathrezim). Before they could finish the fight, an Infinite Agent appears, and removes them from the timeline for an unknown reason. When the mage wakes up, he founds himself in an alternative timeline, in a battle taking place between the Last Alliance (a coalition of humans, dwarves and high elves) and the Invading Fel Force (demons, fel orcs and undeads). All he knows that his enemy, the demon he fought, "arrived" earlier than him, and took the leadership of the Invaders, and that the Infinite Dragonflight wants the fall of the defenders. The demons estabilished a stronghold in the northeast of Duskwood, and opened a dimensional gate to support their attack. On the other hand, the alliance repaired one of their old fortress, built to defend a violet citadel, which generate a power-shield, blocking the way to the Alliance territory.

The invading force of the Burning Legion consists brutal battle-beasts, malicious eredar spellcasters and cunning assasins, while the alliance enlisted most of the mortal races, various nature creatures and elementals even.

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High quality, realistic terrainInvasion in Duskwood comes with a very realistic and really high quality terrain.

Complex heroesMost heroes from the hero pool come with fair complexity and quite high skillcap. Playing them involves the understanding of different game mechanisms and the hero's playstyle.

Innovative combatDozens of custom hero stats, short cooldown spells with acceptible mana costs, custom hero resources and unique item effects try to make fights and itemization more interesting.

Advanced spell tooltipsSpells have very good-loking tooltips, with all the important stats that you might need to reach quickly highlighted. Cooldowns, mana costs, ratios, and all the relevant stats are well detailed, making sure you can always be aware of your hero's strength.

Unique health barsInvasion in Duskwood got rid of the default WarCraft 3 health bars, and implemented a new, much prettier and detailed one. It's capable of displaying the current health, level and remaining resource of the given hero, and even has a really good-looking, fraction-based background texture.

Clean shopThe shop's interface is really clean and easy to understand. There are 5 self-explanatory categories, 3 of them having 4 sub-categories, or as they're called, "Tiers". Buying & selling items updates the tooltips of those recipes that require the bought/sold reagent, making shopping easier than it's ever been.

Suggested items & helpful information for beginnersSuggested items, large amount of game mechanism explanations, helpful tooltips - Invasion in Duskwood has all of these, just to ensure that understanding and picking up the game is easy for the newcomers as well.

Interesting hero loresEvery hero has a background story that fits into the WarCraft lore and the map's story as well. On top of these, sometimes they even have connection between one another.

ModecrafterOur brand new feature, called "The ModeCrafter" allows you to customize the game mode you're playing. You're given the option to modify a vast amount of stats, including starting gold and level, to passive gold and experience generation, kill rewards, deny, hero selection mode, lanes and even jungle creeps.

Game optionsVarious UI options allow you to enable or disable features that you don't like. You can alter the camera's distance, damage texts, tower range indicators and lock the selection to your hero, if you feel you misclick too often.

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Screenshots

Credits


System

Heroes&Skills

Landscape
























Special

Scripts

Models

Icons

  • CRAZYRUSSIAN
  • I3lackDeath
  • JesusHipster
  • Marok0 & Tobyfat54
  • Bribe
  • Jesus4Lyf
  • Kenny
  • Vexorian
  • Rising_Dusk
  • Azlier
  • kingking
  • Nestharus
  • PurgeandFire
  • Tarrasque
  • CloudWolf
  • Frankster
  • JetFangInferno
  • WillTheAlmighty
  • Infrisos
  • Grendel
  • ratamahatta
  • Mc !
  • PyramidHe@d
  • Pyritie
  • Daelin
  • sPy
  • s4nji
  • Em!
  • Tranquil
  • Haistrah
  • Vestras
  • HappyTauren
  • Gottfrei
  • Kitabatake
  • Mephestrial
  • Apheraz Lucent
  • PeeKay
  • -Berz-
  • kola
  • Darkfang
  • The Panda
  • Alibek
  • 4eNNightmare
  • VaLkYroN
  • bloodyroadkill
  • Chucky
  • Infinitynexus
  • Mr.Goblin
  • Illidan_09
  • Kimberly
  • SkriK
  • Palaslayer
  • ALONE
  • bigapple90
  • inhuman89
  • Hemske
  • Static
  • GooS
  • Kwaliti



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Luorax
Project Leader, Coder, Hero & Item designer

Koronis
Lore writer, idea generator

Hellx (Hellx-Magnus)
Terrainer, 2D artist

Judash137
3D artist

Fjury
Lead 2D artist (inactive)

Champara_Bros
Lead 3D artist


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Official Website.
Map Development Thread.
Hero List.
Item List.
Mechanism Explanations.


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v0.86 Beta [12-31-2012]
  • Initial Release
v0.86a Beta [01-02-2013]
Crog Fizzlebolt
  • Vampiric Poisons: healing done reduced to 40/60/80% from 75/100/125%.

Nessara
  • Base Armor reduced to 15 from 18.

Quoyochakee
  • Dream Funnel: No longer stuns enemies it hits.
  • Phase Shift: Mana cost to heal factor reduced to 20/35/50% from 50/70/90%.
  • Base Health per level reduced to 73 from 81
  • Base Armor reduced to 13 from 11.

Snodhar
  • Shadow Smoke: Using Stalk now cancels the aura.
  • Shadow Smoke: Using Inhale Shadow no longer removes the aura's effect.
  • Shadow Smoke: Damage reduction reduced to 6/9/12% from 10/14/18%

Zaraxxus
  • Impetus Charge: no longer stuns enemies it hits.

Core
  • Various typo & tooltip fixes.
  • The game board is automatically opened once the game ends.
  • Fixed the "Assists" icon on the game board.
  • Fixed the initial position of the missiles launched by the Fel Force spawning pool.
  • Fixed a bug that caused the jungle bosses not to have proper stats.
  • Heroes picked via randoming them now become unavailable, as they're supposed to.
  • An empty line has been inserted after every tooltip, fixing them for widescreen resolution users.
v0.86b Beta [01-07-2013]

Nessara
  • Stance Dance: No longer channeled; it's now an instant cast spell.
  • Stance Dance: Fixed a bug that caused the extra attack range from Void Hunter's Bolter to perish after using Stance Dance.

Sirion
  • Dawnbreak Throw: The bonus damage now caps at 350 versus minions.
  • Dawnbreak Throw: Fixed a bug where the damage reduction part was not applied to the shield's first course.

Snodhar
  • Stalk: Now moves Snodhar to the next pathable position.
  • Inhale Shadow: Added a 0.4 seconds delay to the damage and stun part of the spell.
  • Inhale Shadow: The effect is now properly attached to the dummy unit, showing all its particles.

Tock
  • Out of Time: The bonus damage now caps at 125 versus jungle creeps.

Items
  • Shield of Creep Blasting: New passive: "Dealing damage to jungle creeps heals the owner for 6% of the damage dealt."
  • Reaper's Choice: Increased minimum damage to 20 from 15.
  • Reaper's Choice: The damage now caps at 75 versus jungle creeps.
  • The Blooddrinker: Now grants 1% Lifesteal and 3% Attack Speed for each 4% Health missing.
  • The Blooddrinker: Base Lifesteal bonus reduced to 8% from 14%.

Creeps
  • Garrluk Dreadeye: Base damage reduced to 85 from 235.
  • Garrluk Dreadeye: Incinerate's damage reduced to 44 from 64.
  • Craw'Nirrix: Base damage reduced to 570 from 670.
  • Craw'Nirrix: Self-heals done around Craw'Nirrix will cause Craw'Nirrix to be healed for 50% of that amount as well.
  • Craw'Nirrix: Fixed a bug that caused Craw'Nirrix to have zero armor.
  • Wildkin, Death Revenant: Base Health reduced to 580 from 650.
  • Shadow Wolf, Forest Spider: Base Health reduced to 325 from 375.

v0.86c Beta [01-20-2013]

Anub'Theran
  • [Q] Pounce: Cooldown changed to 16/14/12/10/8 from 14/13/12/11/10.
  • [Q] Pounce: Energy cost increased to 60 from 50.
  • [W] Earthrage (Emerged): Now it only slows enemies hit if Lacerate is active when it's cast.
  • [E] Lacerate: The passive component no longer works versus buildings.
  • [R] Devouring Swarm: AD Ratio reduced to 0.008 from 0.025.

Doombot
  • [W] Demonic Lubricant: Cooldown increased to 6 seconds from 4 seconds.
  • [E] Nether Jolt: Total AD Ratio reduced to 1.0 from 1.2.

Glacion
  • [Q] Ice Lance: Mana Cost reduced to 40/45/50/55/60 from 40/50/60/70/80.
  • [E] Icy Pellet: Units hit by the shards are only slowed for 50% of the original slow factor.
  • [E] Icy Pellet: Shatter Range reduced to 250 from 300.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: Cast Range reduced to 800 from 1000.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: Delay increased to 0.8 seconds from 0.5 seconds.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: Area of Effect reduced to 350 from 400.

Gorr
  • [E] Lances of Agony: Base Damage reduced to 40/60/80/100/120 from 50/70/90/110/130.
  • [E] Lances of Agony: Increased the debuff's duration to 5 seconds from 3 seconds.

Jainar
  • [Q] Giant Strike: Now grants an additional 20/25/30/35/40% Armor Penetration for your next attack.
  • [E] Charge: Fixed a bug that caused it to have no cooldown.
  • [E] Charge: Cooldown changed to 12/11/10/9/8 from 16/15/14/13/12.

Shagutt
  • [E] Nethermancy: Ability Power bonus increased to 2/3/4/5/6 from 1/2/3/4/5.
  • [E] Nethermancy: Spell Penetration % bonus increased to 1/1.5/2/2.5/3% per stack from 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5.
  • [E] Nethermancy: Fixed a bug that caused it grant far more Spell Penetration than it should.

Snodhar
  • [Q] Shadow Translation: Bonus AD Ratio reduced to 1.0 from 1.2.

Items
  • [D2] Arcane Booster: Health bonus reduced to 235 from 265.
  • [D4] Arcane-fortified Band: Health bonus reduced to 715 from 745.
  • [D3] Chestplate of Triumph: Health bonus reduced to 325 from 365.
  • [D3] Circlet of Wild Growth: Health bonus reduced to 400 from 430.
  • [D1] Flesh Capacitor: Health bonus reduced to 400 from 450.
  • [D4] Frostbite Necklace: Health bonus reduced to 535 from 565.
  • [M4] Gan'arg Battle Implant: Health bonus reduced to 440 from 500.
  • [M4] Gan'arg Battle Implant: Mana bonus reduced to 475 from 650.
  • [D2] Light's Focus: Health bonus reduced to 245 from 295.
  • [D4] Radiating Light: Health bonus reduced to 540 from 620.
  • [M3] Staff of Rage: Health bonus reduced to 480 from 520.
  • [D3] The Shell: Health bonus reduced to 470 from 490.
  • [D3] The Shell: Armor bonus increased to 50 from 47.
  • [M4] Winter's Chill: Health bonus reduced to 485 from 545.
  • [M4] Winter's Chill: Ability Power bonus increased to 95 from 90.

Core
  • Game timer and team kills added to the game board header.
  • Picking a hero no longer hides the current multiboard for all other players.
  • Hero selection texttags are now removed properly, making other texttags behave properly.
  • The game board now shows a question mark as the ultimate icon for players who're still picking.
  • Minions and jungle creeps now have different levels based on their strength.
  • The small lake in the Last Alliance jungle is no longer pathable.
v0.87 Beta [07-10-2013]

Anub'Theran
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Spike Trap: Duration increased to 5 minutes from 3 minutes.
  • [Q] Spike Trap: Debuff duration increased to 15 seconds from 8 seconds.
  • [Q] Spike Trap: Damage increased to 105/195/285 from 85/175/265.
  • [Q] Spike Trap: Debuffed units no longer trigger Spike Traps (to avoid stacking spike traps at one location)
  • [E] Geyser: Fixed a bug where its second level had 30 seconds of cooldown, instead of 14.
  • [R] Earthen Spikes: Energy cost reduced to 30 from 40.

Crog Fizzlebolt
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Doombot
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [R] Override: No longer generates 5 heat on cast.

Draku'Jin
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Voodoo Burst: Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 6 seconds.
  • [Q] Voodoo Burst: AP ratio increased to 0.5 from 0.4.
  • [R] Mass Effect: Attack/movement speed bonus increased to 20/30/40% from 10/20/30.
  • [R] Mass Effect: Armor/Resistance reduction increased to 20/30/40 from 10/20/30.

Erion
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Hammer of Divine Wrath: Base damage reduced to 70/110/150/190/230 from 80/130/180/230/280.
  • [E] Vengeance: Shield duration reduced to 5 seconds from 6 seconds.

Glacion
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [W] Frigid Blast: The damage is no longer increased if the target is slowed by his spells.
  • [W] Frigid Blast: The damage is now increased by 25% for each stack of Frostbite that the target has.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: Stun duration reduced to 0.75 seconds from 2 seconds.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: The stun now lasts twice its original duration on units slowed by one of Glacion's spells.
  • [R] Null Kelvin: Now applies 2 stacks of Frostbite to all enemies hit.

Kassar
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Jainar
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [W] Raging Whirl: The physical damage reduction is now flat 50%.
  • [W] Raging Whirl: Jainar no longer keeps half of the reduction if he finishes the whirl.
  • [W] Raging Whirl: Buff duration reduced to 6 seconds from 8 seconds.
  • [R] Ruthless Swipe: Mana cost reduced to 100 from 125/150/175

Kassar
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • Bonehoard: Heroes grant 500% more charges (10/20/30).
  • [Q] Bone Splinters: Damage taken factor set to flat 10% of his maximum health instead of 20/17/14/11/8%.
  • [R] Bone Transmutation: Health cost reduced to 15% of his current health from 20%.
  • [R] Bone Transmutation: Haste factor increased to 20/30/40% from 20/25/30%.

Kerwyn
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • Time Warp: Now triggers at 20 / 25 / 30% health instead of 25 / 30 / 35%.

Nazzari
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Nessara
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Burning Net: Periodic Damage reduced to 18/26/34/42/50 (0.2 Bonus AD) from 20/30/40/50/60 (0.3 Bonus AD)
  • [Q] Burning Net: Now deals 45/75/115/145/175 (0.5 Bonus AD) physical damage on contact.
  • [Q] Burning Net: Fixed a bug where it did not apply the stun on reactive, as it was supposed.
  • [W] Demonic Precision: The movement speed bonus in Ranged Stance is now triple of the passive bonus.
  • [E] Explosive Shot: Knockback distance reduced to 600 units from 800 units.

Norjhan
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Quoyochakee
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Raz'jalr
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • Presence of the Old Gods: Critical hits that kill the target can no longer trigger the passive.
  • Presence of the Old Gods: Critical hits with an active [Q] buff can no longer trigger the passive.
  • [E] Impale: Missile speed increased by ~20%.
  • [E] Impale: Particle size increased by ~30%.
  • [R] Tentacle Frenzy: Consecutive hits no longer have damage reduction.
  • [R] Tentacle Frenzy: Bonus AD ratio increased to 0.3 from 0.2

Scneer
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • Base mana increased to 320 from 300.
  • Mana per level increased to 68 from 65.
  • Mana regen per level increased to 0.8 from 0.7
  • [Q] Netherflame: Cooldown decreased to 4 seconds from 5 seconds.
  • [W] Disruption Node: Damage increased to 70/115/160/205/250 (0.65 AP) from 70/105/140/175/210 (0.55 AP)
  • [R] Into the Nether: Periodic damage reduced to 15/25/35 from 20/30/40

Sirion
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [W] Imbue Armor: Cooldown increased at earlier levels to 22/20/18/16/14 seconds from 14 seconds at all levels.
  • [E] Shield Bash: Cast range increased to 300 from 225.
  • [E] Shield Bash: Cooldown decreased at later levels to 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds from 6 seconds at all levels.

Snodhar
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Shadow Translation: Cast range reduced to 600 from 750.
  • [Q] Shadow Translation: No longer applies a silence.
  • [Q] Shadow Translation: Fixed a bug where it would not always put Snodhar behind the target.
  • [W] Inhale Shadow: Delay removed.
  • [E] Stalk: Cast range reduced to 600 from 800.

Tidalus
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [Q] Current Strike: The flight speed no longer depends on his movement speed.
  • [Q] Current Strike: Damage reduced to 45/70/95/120/145 (0.325 AP) from 50/80/110/140/170 (0.275 AP)
  • [Q] Current Strike: Cooldown increased to 12/11/10/9/8 from 8 seconds.
  • [R] Ebb and Flow: Bonus Health reduced to 20/27.5/35% from 20/30/40%.
  • [R] Ebb and Flow: The damage redirected is now flat 30%, instead of 10/20/30%.

Tock
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Xirris
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.
  • [E] Mana Leak: Cooldown increased to 20 from 18/17/16/15/14
  • [E] Mana Leak: Duration reduced to 8 seconds from 10 seconds.

Zaraxxus
  • Tooltips updated based on the new scheme.

Items
  • [M1] Balsa Flute (New Item): Grants 2.5 Mana over 5 sec, costs 180 gold.
  • [M1] Magic Branch: Builds out of Balsa Flute, for the same total cost.
  • [M3] Bloodsteel Armor: Damage boost reduced to 20% from 30%.
  • [M4] Key of Infinity: AP Bonus reduced to 160 from 175.
  • [M4] Key of Infinity: Combine cost reduced to 535 from 1035.
  • [M4] Hexweave Crooked Staff: Damage conversion ratio reduced to 15% from 20%.
  • [M4] Gan'arg Battle Implant: Magic Damage amplification reduced to 8% from 12%.
  • [D1] Golden Lynx Amulet (New Item): Grants 8 Health over 5 sec, costs 220 gold.
  • [D1] Truesilver Ring: Builds out of Golden Lynx Amulet, for the same total cost.
  • [D4] Radiating Light: Cooldown increased to 210 from 95 (was 45 due to a bug).
  • [M] Boots of the Coward: Active cooldown increased to 210 from 75, range reduced to 10000 units from being global.

Gems
  • Reworked gem stats.
  • Only one Ametyst can be picked.
  • The list of new gems can be found here.

Core
  • Fixed a bug where certain AoE spells that affect allies (such as Norjhan's The Raven Incarnates) did not work properly before another AoE spell was cast.
  • Clicking on a hero on the hero selection board now displays the hero's icon on the left side for your allies.
  • Increased the gold bounty of siege minions to 64 from 40.
  • Increased the gold bounty of ranged minions to 41 from 31.
  • The game now starts after 3 minutes, instead of 2.
  • True Sight range reduced to 1000 from 1200
  • Inner towers and Citadels (Violet & Hellfire) now regenerate health over time (~30/sec).
  • Health, Resource (usually mana) and Movement Speed no longer displayed on the StatBoard; they generate a lot of unnecessary string leaks, but have no real purpose. Regen values are still on the board, though.
  • Fixed a bug where you could not buy items with a full inventory, even though you had one or more of its components.
  • Fixed a bug where selling an item with more than 1 charges would only give money back for 1 charge.
  • The way assists are handled has been greatly improved (lots of useless handles removed, no timer callbacks at all, etc).
  • Healing/shielding allies now grants assistance in all the kills they made within the next 10 seconds.
  • Lots of grammar & typo fixes. Credits to Mech_Warrior for reporting them!

v0.88 Beta [08-03-2013]

Anub'Theran
  • [Q] Pounce: No longer targets units, only ground.
  • [Q] Pounce: Now it knocks up the first enemy hero Anub'Theran hits.
  • [Q] Pounce: Flight speed slightly increased.

Glacion
  • [E] Icy Pellet: Shatter range increased to 400 from 250.
  • [E] Icy Pellet: Cast range reduced to 650 from 700.

Gorr
  • [W] Crimson Blast: Missile speed increased by ~20%.

Shagutt
  • Kit reworked to better match our standards.
  • Credits to JesusHipster for the models.
  • A brief info can be found about the new spells below, taken from the selection board.
  • [Passive] Dark Arts: Every time Shagutt takes magic damage, he converts a portion of that damage into mana. Furthermore his spell penetration is increased for the next eight seconds.
  • [Q] Nightmare Surge: Shagutt draws energy from the life around him over five seconds, while his movement speed is reduced and cannot attack or cast other spells. He can then release the energy withdrawn to shot a dark projectile towards that deals damage to the enemies hit and reduces their resistance.
  • [W] Glimpse of Madness: Fills all enemy units in a cone front of Shagutt with dark corruption, dealing magic damage to them. Penetrating through all the resistance of a target will increase the damage they take from the spell, and slow their movement speed for a brief period.
  • [E] Nethermancy: Attacking or casting an ability grants Shagutt Devoured Soul Shards, that passively grant Shagutt bonus ability power. Activating this ability will consume them, forming a shield that absorbs damage and incereases Shagutt's spell penetration for a few seconds.
  • [R] Sear Soul: Blasts the targeted enemy hero, dealing direct damage to them and creating a link between Shagutt and the target, that heals Shagutt for a portion of all the damage he does to the victim. When the link expires or breaks the target to takes further damage.

Zaraxxus
  • [E] Chaotic Strike: Cast range reduced to 650 from 700.
  • [E] Chaotic Strike: AP Ratio reduced to 0.5 from 0.6.

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Items
  • [W3] Shadowblade: Armor Penetration bonus increased to 20 from 15.
  • [W3] Shadowblade: Buff duration increased to 6 seconds from 4 seconds.
  • [W3] Shadowblade: Now also grants 30 movement speed while the buff is active.

Minions
  • Siege minions' missile speed no longer differ (1200 for all siege minions).


ModeCrafter
  • The player in the first taken player slot is the crafter.
  • The crafter has 60 seconds to configure various game options.
  • Other players can see the board and the current options, but cannot interact with it.

Options
  • New option: Turn on/off fog.


PlayerLeave
  • Their hero is now ordered to walk back to the spawning pool.
  • Allies now gain control over the leaver's hero.
  • You can buy items for that hero from their shop on their money.

Shop
  • Charged items are now limited to 5 charges/stack.
  • Fixed a bug where selling items would always give 0 gold back.
  • Fixed a bug where selling items while dead that were bought while dead would provide zero gold.
  • Fixed a bug where buying multiple instances of a consumable while dead that your hero did not have before would grant only 1 charge.

Towers
  • Towers, minions and jungle creeps start their upgrades once the game starts, not after map init (so they won't get their first upgrade almost immediately once the first minion wave reaches the lane).
  • Towers now gain 10 armor and 15 attack damage every 4 minutes, 10 times, as opposed to 18 armor and 15 attack damage 6 times.
  • Towers' attack cooldown increased to 1.5 seconds from 1.1 seconds.
  • Reduced the health of Chaos Tower I, II, III and Life Tower I, II, III to 2000 from 2350.
  • Reduced the health of Inner Chaos Towers and Inner Life Towers to 2500 from 2675.
  • Tower range indicator model updated. Credits to JesusHipster.

Core
  • Fixed a bug that'd make it so that the last person to deal damage to you would always get the kill (a.k.a. it did not time out and even if you died 10 seconds later to a tower, they'd still get the kill).
  • Slow's effect color changed to light blue from yellow.
  • Various optimizations and tweaks here and there, that may (should) improve the performance.
  • The ModeCrafter has been implemented.
  • Double clicking on a hero you control opens their shop (reason).
  • Allies' current gold is now displayed on the gameboard (reason).

v0.88a Beta [08-10-2013]

Anub'Theran
  • [Passive] Burrow/Emerge: Fixed a bug where dying while casting Burrow behaved inappropriately.

Jungle Creeps
  • Chaos Cult Leader: Health reduced to 4250 from 5250.
  • Chaos Cult Leader: Attack cooldown increased to 1.2 from 0.8.
  • Chaos Cult Leader: Incinerate damage reduced to 35 from 44.
  • Craw'Nirrix: Attack damage reduced to 470 from 570.

Items
  • [W3] Shan'yala: Attack damage bonus reduced to 25.
  • [W3] Shan'yala: Recipe cost reduced to 250 from 750.
  • [W3] Shan'yala: New passive: "The owner is healed for 10% of all damage dealt to neutral creeps."
  • [W3] Shan'yala: Now also grants 4 attack damage and 3% bonus attack speed on cast, if the active kills the target. These bonuses stack up to 10 times.
  • [D2] Shield of Creep Blasting: Tooltip updated to match the changes made in 0.86b.

Core
  • New command: "-timer XX MSG": displays <MSG> after <XX> seconds to you and your allies.
  • New test mode command: "-dummy XX YY": spawns a level <YY> Zaraxxus for Player(<XX>) at the upper side of the river. The player slot has to be unoccupied (using this makes it occupied).
  • Fixed some fog of war issues in the jungle. Credits to Malvodion for reporting them!

v0.88b Beta [08-15-2013]

Gorr
  • [W] Crimson Blast: Damage of the smaller orbs reduced to 4% of the target's maximum health from 6%.

Kerwyn
  • [Passive] Time Warp: No longer amplifies the damage of Tick, Tock..., only his normal spells.
  • [Passive] Time Warp: Damage bonus for his normal spells reduced to 20% from 30%.

Raz'Jalr
  • [R] Tentacle Frenzy: Fixed a typo that caused the tentacles to strike from an absurd range.
  • [R] Tentacle Frenzy: Base damage increased to 60 / 90 / 120 from 40 / 55 / 70.

Items
  • [M] Life's Threads: Recipe changed to Herald's Slippers + Balsa Flute + Golden Lynx Medal + 420 gold (1200 total)
  • [M] Life's Threads: Now grants 8 health regeneration, 2.5 mana regeneration, and regenerates 0.3 of your maximum health and mana every second.

Core
  • Fixed a thread chrash in the selection window generate method that caused the camera to not function properly.
  • New test mode command: "-refresh: Restores your health and mana."
  • Effect dummy units and projectile dummies now use unit recycling.
  • Sound volume for custom sounds lowered to 100 from 127.
  • Jungle creeps now take up their default facing when they start sleeping.
  • Damage redirection effects (such as Tidalus' "Ebb and Flow") are now applied to chaos damage as well.
  • Damage & Heal redirection effects now take place before the incoming heal/damage modification effects are applied on the target.
  • Fixed a bug where Taunt's buff would stick around for longer than it the effect itself lasts.
  • Fixed various bugs regarding creep camp handling (for example that you could pull them out of their range).
  • Fixed a typo that caused your physical damage to be modified by magic damage output modification effects instead.



home.png
h.discla.png


The map is in beta stage, which means it may contain bugs and various balance problems. They all will be fixed once we find them, or the players report them. If you find any bugs or want to tell us your feedback, you can do it here, on IID's website, or you can send me an e-mail to [email protected]. Note that those who can't moderate themselves will be ignored.

If you happen to find a bug, please save the replay and attach it to your post/mail as well!


[Map description by Luorax and Hellx]

Keywords:
duskwood, invasion, aos, dota, lol, league of legends, heroes of newerth, hon, kamehameha, aeon of strife
Contents

IID Beta v0.88b (Map)

Reviews
Vengeancekael Date: 2012/Dec/31 18:03:36 [Please do not send me a message, use Staff Contact] Comment:The terrain - Absolutely flawless. Maybe you remember that I didn't find the terrain satisfying in an earlier version, but then you really...
Level 5
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
211
Sigh, after reinstall my driver i still not find a way to solve yet, but i am really sure it's not about my spec because fps is not drop at all and no lag. It happens like "i'm playing then BSOD suddenly popup". I never play warcraft and get BSOD in ANY map, this is my first time that i getting this.
 
Level 6
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
121
Hello IiD team. I have to say, this map is very well made. Do you have a community that actively follows and plays the map? I understand it's only in beta, and so I won't comment on a few balance issues I noticed in my 3-4 plays through.

Do you have any host bots that host this on Warcraft III currently? And do you have a forum? If you're interested, my clan would agree to host this map on an autohost bot. It won't be the best quality, but it's very playable.

Also one issue you should be aware of is that due to the compression rate you used on custom models/icons, people with Macs will autocrash at map init. You might want to fix this if you can (three of my friends have Macs, and this is verified by all three of them crashing every single game at map init).

Anyway, if you're interested to have this hosted, you can contact me by PM here, or on wc3 US East (Mech_Warrior).

- Mech
 
Level 16
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,403
Well, to be honest I'm waiting for Hellx to finish an artwork he's been busy with recently. However, due to the lack of time and the changes/bug fixes in the next patch, I think I'll just release it tomorrow, because I don't think I'll be able to work more on the map for 2 or 3 more weeks.
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,403
The new version is up. I needed to ninja-change something in the last minute (Nessara ultimate cooldown on the board & W icon on the hero selection), so if you happened to download 0.86c before THIS post, please download it again.

Have fun!
 
Level 2
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
34
BRAVO ^_^ i gona try it now :) and i holpe u get on the map updateing when u got time ^_^ great job
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
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Thanks for the kind words :)

Well, there's a Garena room: 150217. I accept everyone who joins, but it's up to you guys to organize games; my life is really busy nowadays. I think I'll attach the group ID to the main post, although it's capped at 50 people, so if for some reason the map becomes popular, I'll have to figure out what to do (or maybe buy some shells, IDK).
 
Level 10
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
262
I want to play this map (i installed Wc3 only for this) but i want to play it at 4:3 ratio on my widescreen monitor. Do you know how to do that? Nvidia control channel doesnt have an option for that (It used to be, 1-2 year ago)
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
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Can't you change the resolution in the video options? Or don't they appear (the 4:3 ones)? If so, you can change the resolution manually in the registry. ("HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Blizzard Entertainment/Warcraft III/Video/resheight & reswidth")
 
Level 2
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
34
whell i play the map for 1-2 weeks now and to tell u it is awesome 5/5 but i notice that the caster heroes are overhellming in your pull and i realy holpe to see more mele dps heroes that have some i dnk maby resistenc to cast so that we coud have more strugle bloody combat aside the awesome caster fight's . . .
 
Level 16
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Yea, I noticed that we've got a lot of ranged casters, I think that's most likely because:

1) I'm a caster type of person;
2) I'm a big fan of complex heroes, and creating a caster AD hero is a lot harder.

What we really do lack is ranged AD carry and support heroes. The next hero is gonna be a ranged AD "duelist" carry, followed by a support later. I'll try to implement some melee AD's after them.
 
Level 2
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May 21, 2009
Messages
34
:goblin_good_job::goblin_good_job:i mean u have great items for dps heroes and u dont have so mutch of them or the few u have are on one good combo skill jump exsistence :D and i win to easy evry time so no one wont to play the game second time and that's realy piss me off becose i play in only one room that we all know eatchother and it's lod room bg 1 if u wondering and it's not easy to enther x_X ffs xaxax . . . i know that's it's not easy to make a sutch a goodlooking and awesome bild heroes that u made so far and u allredy set up the hights whit them but and evrythink i just holpe for more balance for dps mele vs caters heroes combat , not to reduse the skills dmg or something like this , just maby to add more resistence in the RAW power heroes and make some of douse :D and nessara ultimate can u tell me somthing smart for it like i make it so u can have it on lv becose . . ..eny way great job so far goodluck for the new heroes , and if u have somthing like LIFE :D and u dont have time to work on the map just inslave some crakers to type the shit for u :D xaxa the last one lose a joke :p enyway gona text afther the next update see yahh GL HF and life :D
 
Level 16
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I really like the way regen items work since S3 in LoL, the fact that they're cheap makes it so that you can choose from a VAST amount of starting item combinations. With this being said, I did a small change to the Tier 1 regen items (Magic Branch/Truesilver Ring) - it doesn't affect any of the items built out of them, nor these items themselves, but still makes it possible to have an early game regen item plus some other items, such as wards or potions. Check out the first post for more information.

I haven't really been able to do much as else - the second semester has started, I'm busy (been in school yesterday and the day before yesterday almost all day long), I've got to study - I'll try to work on the map, though.
 
Level 23
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Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,608
Okay, I don't understand the mod nor the user 5 star rating.
The only cool thing here are the visuals - thats it.
And they are "too good"
We played full house and 8/12 ppl had <20 fps, some1 3, some1 8...it was terrible.

Then, there are the most un-informative tooltips I have ever seen.
All the useful information about targetting or effects aren't in the 10 points listed, and the written text has no highlights or anything to outline WHAT the spell does.
I can't see how my spell targets?!?!??!?
I don't know if it's instant, channel, cast, position, whatever and I don't know if it affects heros, creeps, towers.

Towers foxus heros even tho creeps are near, and the towercircles are really ugly and too thick..

THe shop gems aren't even mentioned and if you don't test it yourself you won't discover them. I dislike them in general because it's really a noobtrap.

Same goes for the shop, really complicated and I have almost no time/gold to buy stuff.
Boots are always coward because you can teleport then.

Most spells are direct/instant hit and do dmg/stun whatever. I can't even decipher what my enemies are doing most the time.

After 15 minutes not 1 tower was destroyed, only 1 half.
I don't know how long it would take to finish the game, because suddenly, everyone started to get Fatal Errors.
so we went from 12 to 4 players, because 8 got Critical error and then ended the game.

It's also kinda stupid that left players' heros are left on the lane for a freekill...

Sorry I'm justing listing mixed points here but this really left a bad impression and didn't improve at all from the way older versions...
I can't understand the hype and ratings, sry.

2/5 for effort and visuals.
 
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Level 13
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
852
^second that (unhappily) plus:
I played the mage hunter and had the problem that I got stuck in the middle of the game because my pets blocked the way and I wasn't able to kill them. Even if I re-summoned them, they spawnd at the same place.

Version IID Beta v0.86c is not approvable :(
 
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Level 16
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Their? I thought it was my map and not his, but I might be mistaken...

And the reason why I didn't response is the same why I wasn't able to work on it, and what I wanted to write: I don't have the time. I'm at school almost all day every day, in my "free time" I want to study, or relax, because after all, I'm just a human being myself, I need to enjoy myself just like everyone else. This semester is really hard (and the next one propably won't be different either), so I'll propably only be able to do much for the map after the 10th of July, when the next examination period ends. Until then I'll only do some small balance changes/bug fixes (like Xirris' dogs or tower/minion stats - I'll propably add 2 more ranged minions to all waves and try to work on towers' stats), as I don't have the time for anything more drastical. Plus, I don't really have the crew either (hopefully I'll get Champara_Bros back for the summer at least - Hellx can take care of the icons, so we might be able to release more heroes)

Plus, we could argue how worthy someone's comments are, who rates a map 2/5 just because the BETA is not bugfree/balanced (the FPS lag I've never experienced, and my WC3 only crashed once - but if you have a reason why it could have happened, I'm all ears. I'm not one of those people who wrote WC3's code).
 
Level 23
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Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,608
Well, it doesn't have to be the author in most cases, it's the general behavior often.

I gave you many points of why I rated 2/5.
What should I do else? not rate? Why do ppl rate 5/5 then?
The problem is, I see a map, that has an almost 5/5 rating and I (and I'm seeing "I" as a normal player now, because I already know hive-standards) think - hey, this has to be an awesome map and ppl and EVEN the moderator rate it 5/5.

Then I play the map with 10 people and 7 have fps issues (not every one has a very good pc like you and me), 1 player gets completely bugged, after some time everyone receives a critical error.

And even the 20 minutes we played were unenjoyably for me and the others (bhusta was one of them) because of flawed hero and spell concepts with terrible tooltips, few to no action sequences, because fights always ended in a kill after 6 seconds because of instant spells, or resulted in an instant retreat because diving is hardly possible.

Critical Errors occur because of your code...not directly because of wc3.

I told you most of this stuff in the alpha already.
 
Level 13
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
852
Their? I thought it was my map and not his, but I might be mistaken...

Frotty tends to generalize points he experienced various times and I see his point that there is a general problem with some hive users about accepting sound criticism or reviews. It is a fact which is proven by Sverkermans rude and unprofessional behavior.

And the reason why I didn't response is the same why I wasn't able to work on it, and what I wanted to write: I don't have the time. I'm at school almost all day every day, in my "free time" I want to study, or relax, because after all, I'm just a human being myself, I need to enjoy myself just like everyone else. This semester is really hard (and the next one propably won't be different either), so I'll propably only be able to do much for the map after the 10th of July, when the next examination period ends. Until then I'll only do some small balance changes/bug fixes (like Xirris' dogs or tower/minion stats - I'll propably add 2 more ranged minions to all waves and try to work on towers' stats), as I don't have the time for anything more drastical.
Plus, I don't really have the crew either (hopefully I'll get Champara_Bros back for the summer at least - Hellx can take care of the icons, so we might be able to release more heroes)

I do understand your point about you beliving being busy, but everybody has a job or is studying.

Small bug fixes and balance changes won't fix the fundamental problems of this map. Your decision to create new heroes and adding more units is even worse. Don't mess this project up. It has the potential of being great.

At the moment you are showing a project which promises a great gaming experience but it doesn't and more and more users will get frustrated.

Please work on the main problem and don't add more.

Plus, we could argue how worthy someone's comments are, who rates a map 2/5 just because the BETA is not bugfree/balanced (the FPS lag I've never experienced, and my WC3 only crashed once - but if you have a reason why it could have happened, I'm all ears. I'm not one of those people who wrote WC3's code).

The first sentence let me doubt your intelligence. The rating can be changed. It is a BETA yes. But a rating of 5/5 promisses a great and working game which it isn't.

I gave you this low rating because I want to give you an incentive.
The moderation of Vengeancekael is an insult for every good working and completed map project. But he couldn't know that there are so many improvable points. So, there is no reason to blame him.

But if I give you the 5/5 rating I would deny the experience we had playing this map. And this is not just about Frotty and me. I don't want to list the other users who played with us because I don't want them to get insulted by the ignorant part of the hive.

Please take these words seriously and improve your map properly.
I like this map but it realy does not deserve a rating beyond

2/5

- regards bhusta
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,403
Okay, now that I'm done with all my exams, I'll be working on the map again. But first things first: I'd like to apologize if I was harsh, or an idiot, the first exam. period was really stressful, and because I skipped quite a few lectures, I was quite behind, and I only realised that when the exam. period started (with the hardest exam). Hopefully I did not offend anyone, or was that big of a jerk.

-----

So I decided that I'll go through this page, and re-read the comments, as I kinda forgot what the most crucial problems were. I do remember though that almost everyone found the long-ass tooltips annoying and hard to deal with, especially with the way all the info was separated, so I decided that I'll start with this. Thanks to Hellx we made a good-looking scheme and I've already finished two sets:



Tooltips got longer and longer as new heroes were implemented, the first few ones aren't that long, but look at Tock's tooltips, for example - he's got one of the longest set of tooltips, with the most lore. All the useless lore will be erased, and everything will be inlined, and as you can see on the pictures above, important info will be highlighted as well. Hopefully it'll make it easier to understand the spells for those who didn't actually code them (a.k.a. for everyone who's not me).

-----

Something else I made is this:



This will be displayed once the game ends. Other than the fact it looks cooler than a simply opened gameboard, it can also come handy when analyzing certain things (for example: healing done by a certain hero, chaos damage done by a certain item [like Hexweave Crooked Staff, that I nerfed based on the stats providied by the board], etc.)

As always, the current changelog can be found here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2267795-post2.html
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
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1,403
Just thought I'd bump this "thread". I'm done with 17 tooltip sets already. I'll continue working on them, it should be finished this week. Some of them are still kinda long, even though they contain like 1 row of lore (I don't want to cut out EVERYTHING, all the tooltips being like "fires a missile in a straight line", "deals damage in the target area" would make it even more horrible, IMO), they do so many things that it just cannot be shortened enough. It's true though that all the stats are inlined and highlighted, so at least they are no longer confusing (or at least they shouldn't be), and they're as long with the inlined text as before, without inlining. Most of the time they're even shorter.

I'm also going to change the gems: unlike now, where certain stats can be found in even 3 categories, after the change every stat will be unique. Additionally, Ametyst will grant something far more stronger than simple stats, but you will only be able to choose one from the ametyst pool. The list of new gems can be found here (yes, Ruby contains 8, Sapphire contains only 9 gems).

As always, the changelog can be found here.

Once I'm done with the tooltips and gems, I'll release a new version and go through the thread, as promised, trying to figure out what else could be done for the map to make it more fun to play.
 
Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
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Well, two timers, since I'm using T32 and CTL (Why both? Because different systems use different ones). I don't really have other timers created with such a short timeout (even if you use them a lot, it still makes a huge difference that there'are only 2 timers executing at the same time, instead of, let's say, 10).

They're used a lot, though; the healthbar, damage text, walkthrough, effect, buff, lightning, hot, dot systems, auras, and every CC use them. But these couldn't really be made in other ways without giving up some flexibility.

I'm constantly trying to optimize everything I can, though. I've dramatically increased the effectiveness of the assistance system, for example, that also allowed me to make heal & shield supports grant assistance. Though the terrain & fog still makes things laggy for people with an older PC, which I can't really help (maybe I can add a button to the options menu to turn on/off the fog - yea, I'll do that later).
 
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Level 16
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Aug 7, 2009
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Updated. I sure hope I did not screw up something accidentally, and that I didn't forget about anything. I didn't really have time or opportunity for testing, but everything I've fixed seems to work properly. I don't want to talk about what I've done in this patch, my rants can be found above. The website will be updated with the new tooltips tomorrow, most likely.

I'll focus on those things that people have suggested in the following patch(es). I did shorten the abiity tooltips and made them a lot more appealing, and also done some balance changes and bug fixes. It should be enough for now. If I find bugs I'll fix them, of course, and if I get enough feedback/someone can convince me about something, I'll do that, of course.

Please note that I did not touch Shagutt. I'm pretty sure you can figure it out why. If not, hopefully saying that he'll get some love once Champara_Bros comes back (shouldn't take long) is enough. Snodhar will also be looked at (most likely his ultimate - the rest is fine with all the changes, IMO).

Well, that's it for now, this is all I wanted to say.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
501
> cannot deny creeps, towers, or heroes
> cannot deny creeps or towers
> cannot deny creeps
> cannot deny

Sorry, not interested. (the map has great potential for LoL players though, as piss easy is something they're familiar to)
 
Level 16
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Believe it or not, it's not because you can't deny in LoL either. There are many things that I didn't agree with in DotA, and apparently, neither did Riot. It's true that I had some ideas that LoL has too, so I used it as a starting point, but most of time I implemented it my own way, since it was my own idea.

You can't deny, because:
  • Kills any kind of agression; if you can both last hit and deny, then you'll pretty much focus only on that, instead of trying get your enemy into a bad position by other means (like zoning them out, or pusing up to their turret, which you can use to help your allies too).
  • It's kinda annoying to see your gold being taken away; does it mean that if my enemy is a better last hitter then I'm not allowed to have any gold, a.k.a. I can't do anything, that might even be because they have more FPS or less ping?
  • Killing your mates makes no sense to me.
 
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Level 10
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Feb 18, 2008
Messages
262
> cannot deny creeps, towers, or heroes
> cannot deny creeps or towers
> cannot deny creeps
> cannot deny

Sorry, not interested. (the map has great potential for LoL players though, as piss easy is something they're familiar to)

Here is an example of ignorance. Hey you Dota fanboy, Denying is a stupid nonsense mechanic. If you want to deny, go play Dota. This map is one of the most polished AoS map ever made on Wc3 editor, you cant simply say "no deny, not interested".
 
Level 16
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Well, thanks :) The thing is, I love programming, and I love complex stuff (just look at all those things one spell does sometimes). But the rest is our work, Koronis and Hellx help me a LOT - roughly ~90% of the lore is Koronis' work, and the same amount of spell names too. Hellx helps me with all the design work (that's his profession, after all), but I may get him draw icons too, to replace Fjury, who has been missing for almost a whole year. I didn't mention this to him, though.

My job is working on the "map", the file itself. I do and did everything (except for the terrain), items, heroes, units, all the code, etcetera. It's kinda embarassing to look at the first few "systems" I made, they're soooo meh :p With all the math and programming theory I've already picked up, that is.

-------

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2267795-post2.html

I did some tweaking to turrets, as I remember that someone mentioned they were too beefy. I also have some smaller ideas that need to be implemented (like limiting all consumables to 5 - I was lazy do to it, but with the fix to charged item selling, this is the next), and I also have a plan for when players leave (nothing fancy, just shared control, but they should use their old gold to buy items, and they'll gain money for themselves - I don't know how it works in DotA, never played it that much).
 
Lourax, I play this map online twice with my buddy from Hive and one of it my brother also plays, it seems after 50/60 minutes FPS down to below 1.0, if you would be so kind to give an advice to deal with this, my setting is all high if that helps.
Well, on our second play [3 players], when FPS drop begin, the FPS of ours was :
Me : 0.2 -> 0.4 [I can't even move my hero properly lol]
My Friend : Approx 0.5 -> 0.8 [he got severe lag, can control hero a bit]
My Brother : Approx 0.7 -> 0.9 [sometimes he get 1.0 -> 1.1]
We all quit because we can't play properly [hell, I can't even move my screen :ogre_hurrhurr:]

I give 4/5 for the amazing effort into the map, if the lag is gone/solved I would gladly give 5/5 :)
 
Level 16
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It's T32 that tends to do it, when you attempt to start an already running "timer". I think it had nothing to do with the game time, it's just something unfortunate that happened. I'm using the one without a safety check, but sometimes things get too complicated, and interesting things might happen.

I'm wondering what it was, though, it can be a lot of things. Do you have a replay? That'd help a lot. If not, could you tell me what items you had, what heroes you were playing, and what you did when it happened (something like casting a spell, using an item, buying an item, killing a creep, it can be anything). I've experienced sooooo many weird stuff you wouldn't even believe.

Also, did it happen in both games? If so, were you playing the same heroes? Did you get the same items? Did it happen at the same time? Hah, that's quite a lot of questions.

Well, thanks for reporting the issue; it's in my best interest to fix it. Unfortunately I can't play with anyone, I can only do some testing with my laptop and PC together, at best, which isn't really helping me catch bugs.

[EDIT]

damn, I just found out that while I was cleaning up a little bit the item sell callback, I made a mistake: the cost refunded is always multiplied by zero, since the charges are not stored, and the item is removed by that time :S I smell a fix for this within the next few days.
 
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Level 1
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Messages
501
Here is an example of ignorance. Hey you Dota fanboy, Denying is a stupid nonsense mechanic. If you want to deny, go play Dota. This map is one of the most polished AoS map ever made on Wc3 editor, you cant simply say "no deny, not interested".

Maybe I'm the only one who finds you a bit of a hypocrite for insulting some on based on an opinion. The fact I specifically said I am not interested in an AoS map, due to the lack of that mechanic, doesn't mean I don't appreciate the effort put into the map itself. It clearly means I personally would no engage in playing it. Unlike you, sir, I won't bash you for having an opinion, but I find it sad how people treat other people over differing views...really sad.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


Luorax, I find it is my duty now to put my 2 cents in, so you don't think I dismissed your hard work altogether.

I'll address the points you made about why didn't implement denying in your map:

Note - "P" = point ; "R" = reply.

P1) Kills any kind of agression; if you can both last hit and deny, then you'll pretty much focus only on that, instead of trying get your enemy into a bad position by other means (like zoning them out, or pusing up to their turret, which you can use to help your allies too).

R1) How does it kill aggression...at all? By your logic, you would have to choose between last hitting and zoning out your enemy (etc.) anyway. The lack of denying actually kills diversity, since you are only left with this option: Click + A. And yes, I do agree that that is what aggression is (attacking), but by all means, are you implying that if someone was denying your creeps, you would not turn aggressive in trying to zone the enemy off your lane? Harassing them, maybe even forcing them to TP back to their base? The point in denying creeps in particular is that you can do everything you've mentioned and more. Aggression + Harassment + Mind games ("will my opponent choose to last hit? Or deny? Or trick me into coming close for the last hit myself, just to harass me") But I digress...next point.

P2) It's kinda annoying to see your gold being taken away; does it mean that if my enemy is a better last hitter then I'm not allowed to have any gold, a.k.a. I can't do anything, that might even be because they have more FPS or less ping?

R2) "Seeing your gold being taken away" - No. If anything, being able to deny creeps makes you a better last hitter, and I can pretty much guarantee you can figure out why. But just to clarify: once you notice your opponent's play-style (let's say the enemy only focuses on denying and nothing else), you can almost time the exact moment he'll try to deny, based on the creep's HP, giving you the window to react accordingly, either by getting the last hit, thus wasting his time, or...but wait, that's digging too deep into it, right? Because that's what really bothers you: the idea that someone can outplay you during the laning phase..."your gold being taken away" would only be right if you had that gold in your possession in the first place. The gold you earn, you earn on your own merits, not by stretching your hands forward, asking for it. Oh and by the way: you stress so much on how you're not able to have any gold due to denying, but have quite a handful of JUNGLERS in your map...why is that? Anyway, if I haven't made my point clear til now, I guess I never will.

P3) Killing your mates makes no sense to me.

R3) Maybe this analogy won't satisfy you, but: if you'd have a puppy living in pain (suffering), wouldn't you want to put it out of its misery? Of course I'd want to deny my mates, especially if they'd suffer less by my hand, but in this situation - why would I want to guarantee my opponent gold and XP? I don't want to make him stronger, do I? And who would? I can see where you're coming from, but your overall reason doesn't seem to be justified.


Okay, that was my rant on denying. Hope it makes sense. I respect your opinion, but it just doesn't win me over. Good luck with your project!
 
Level 6
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
127
so Klesk and Luorax, I'll make it neutral here.

If you remove all kind of gold given by creeps/minions and give everyone a gold/second amount, you'll solve the last hit problem.

Only get gold from enemy heroes to promote ganking and teamfights, yay !


For Klesk
"as piss easy is something they're familiar to"
You started the hostilities right there. I don't mind, I'm one of those LoL players you're mentionning.
The thing is, I don't prefer LoL over Dota for its easiness, I prefer it over DotA for it is not a Stunfest.
Champions in league have abilities not called "Storm Bolt" with a different name.

See, I know that DotA has been made with the warcraft III engine, which can sometimes be complicated.
But we have Luorax right here that proves us how freaking cool it can be.
I shall even be able to prove you myself how unlimited you are with Warcraft III.
The thing is, the makers of DotA ruined it by using stuns too often in their map as stun is the only condition
that doesn't overwrite.

I'll give you an exemple, if you have 2 heroes with a slow ability based on the spell Slow from Sorceress.
One is its ultimate 80% slow and the other is normal skill 30% slow.
If the hero with ult casts it on an enemy and then the other hero does the same. The 80% will be overwritten by the 30% one
thus making the makers of DotA take Stun as a preferable skill.

Now that this is covered, we have DotA2 realeased or near to be released.
I actually don't mind it being released, I'm just sad to see it being a conform copy of DotA1
and making the same mistake. I mean, if you're going to start with a brand new engine
_in which you're not limited_, why not make some changes !?


I'm not wanting to challenge you or anything, I'm just saying that the guys at Riot
made the changes. And it pays right now, not only on the monetary side. But if you take
a look at the recent champions released, you'll notice some pretty awesome champs.
Unique abilities and playstyles.
 
Level 16
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,403
so Klesk and Luorax, I'll make it neutral here.

If you remove all kind of gold given by creeps/minions and give everyone a gold/second amount, you'll solve the last hit problem.

Only get gold from enemy heroes to promote ganking and teamfights, yay!

I started working on the ModeCrafter back then, but it's been paused due to my break, and now that I'm back, I'd much rather work on other, more important things, to make it enjoyable to play, before allowing customization. ModeCrafter would/will (it'll be implemented eventually) allow you to customize a plethora of things, which include passive gold generation, xp/gold reward for minions-creeps/heroes. If people prefer the "action all over the map right from the beginning" then so shall it be, they can play their games like that.

------------

I enjoy how you have the same opinion about DotA 2. I actually gave it a try, I got a beta key last year. But I was really damn disappointed when I realized that nothing has changed - attacking feels still merely responsive, stuns still last an eternity, it's still more like an FPS where having the better reflexes gives you the upper hand. I thought they would at least make last hitting less painful - I'm actually having a hard time last hitting in WC3 (in Dota, in IID, etc.), because it takes soo much for my hero to start atacking. I'm just not used to it. But it's far worse in DotA, because minions do so absurd damage.

But oh well, I still don't want to talk about DotA, I just found it funny that he thinks the same as me.

------------

@Klesk
I don't think the first part of the message was for me too, or at least I hope so. We tend to have different opinions, we tend to look at certaing things in different ways, that's our nature. Although as Druu said, that LoL clause seems kinda offending, but I don't care, since I haven't really been playing LoL recently, plus I usually do the same with DotA, but I go much further.

Denying has been the topic of soo many discussions. I remember though that 2 years ago a DotA-zombie was infecting our LoL thread, and the word "deny" became a joke. I've always been against denying, so if it was only that, I'd have allowed denying. But that's just not the direction I want to take with IID. Simple as that.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
501
"But if you take
a look at the recent champions released, you'll notice some pretty awesome champs.
Unique abilities and playstyles."

Why don't we look at less recent champions while we're at it? Volibear, Ashe, Nocturne, to name a few? I bet they have challenging champs to play (Rubick, Invoker). But let's move on to what you said earlier about slows and stuns.

Quote from Dota Wiki:

"A Slow is a type of status effect that reduces the afflicted units Movement Speed and Attack Speed by a percentage of their current Movement Speed or Attack Speed.

Slows that are not Unique Attack Modifiers stack additively, following the Movement Speed Formula and Attack Speed Formula. The maximum amount of Movement Speed Slow is limited by the minimum Movement Speed of 100. All Hex abilities will slow a hero to exactly 100. The maximum amount of Attack Speed decrease is -80. (oddly enough, it's the amount you were suggesting)

The abilities Stampede, Shapeshift, Surge, Shukuchi, and the Rune of Haste will make affected units completely immune to slowing effects. "

But if you were talking about Movement Speed slow, you need not look further than BristleBack. Not only does his slow stack with itself, but it does with his allies' slows as well. Thing is, it won't slow below 100 ms, so slowers won't be preferred all around.

As for stuns: not only do they not overwrite, but only the highest duration is taken in account, if multiple stuns land on a single target. (The stun values don't "refresh" the time a unit is stunned)

A simple example: Say (just in theory) you could stun someone for 10 seconds. You cast the stun, then 5 seconds later an ally stuns the same target for another 2 seconds. That target will only be stunned for 10 seconds, regardless. Of course, the values I used (duration) are blown out of proportion, just the get the idea across, but in reality, stuns in DotA (even other similar games) last on average two seconds OR LESS and since they don't stack, I don't see how they can be so difficult to deal with, especially since there are so many ways to counter, or avoid a stun, it's ridiculous.


Anyway, I didn't mean any spite in my first post on this thread, but I'll stop altogether to prevent any...animosity. As someone who has tried three games of the same type (I won't call them MOBAs anytime soon), I was just disappointed to see one mechanic missing. Everything else is masterfully executed. Good job to you, Luorax, and your team!
 
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