I can never stick with an idea

[Adiktuz]

basically I stop working on a proj when better systems get out and editing the scripts I currently have to use the new systems is so hard that starting from scratch is much easier... or if I really get bored...

 

[Animalpower]

The reason you can not finish the map is because you can not figure out something needed in the map. The only thing that stops me from finishing the map is lack of resources and no knowledge of specific trigger, spell or system. To finish a map do something you are capable of doing, something with very demanding systems, spells, triggers, resources would be hard or unable to finish if you do not have that, example I think making soulchess map demands a lot skills.

 

[deepstrasz]

\ I think making soulchess map demands a lot skills.

True. But only if you actually play with the triggers you learn how to master them.

So it's selfish that I expect to be credited for what I've done?

I was referring to those whom do maps only for their own pleasure.

as a great man wrote (terry goodkind) "It is not wrong to do something memorable, and expect appraisal"

If you're not heard of or congratulated, your work ends up being stolen by others.

 

[InfinateAnswers]

Actually, popular maps get stolen all the time and get changed, and people play those maps. Infact, every map made after the first era of mapping is a stolen version of another map

 

[Animalpower]

What first era of mapping? No way it is stolen, mostly it is not, except DotA, TD, FF and similar genres..

 

[InfinateAnswers]

every map is a parody of the original maps, tower defenses, rpg's, dota was actually one of the few original maps to be made later in wc3's life, it also assisted in killing wc3 lol

 

[Wazzz]

well someone's horrendously short sighted

anywho, a lack of commitment to your own project usually stems from the eventual realisation that your idea wasn't that good in the first place

any other excuses like 'oh i might not get credited for this' or 'oh i lost progress on this' simpler serve as distractions from the real reason you don't want to finish your project - the idea sucked

 

[kari0003]

I think wazz's got the point here,
If i make a map i dont worry that ppl will steal it, as long as they make it better. -Because the main reason of making maps is to make a game people enjoy.
And if thieves make it buggy and bad, others can still play with my dedicated version, and dont bother with copycats

 

[Adiktuz]

If people steal it, it means your map is really great...

 

[Arhowk]

every map is a parody of the original maps, tower defenses, rpg's, dota was actually one of the few original maps to be made later in wc3's life, it also assisted in killing wc3 lol

bro? dota is the only thing keeping wc3 alive atm

 

[Adiktuz]

DotA is original? since when? its idea is a rip-off of the SC map AoS just in case you don't know...

and I agree with Arhowk a bit... it is mostly what keeps wc3 alive, but not the only thing keeping it alive...

 

[Vizel]

I cannot tell you how many times I've told someone I'm playing wc3 and they're like "What's that" and I'm like "It's got dota" and they're like "OH You're playing dota?" -.-

Some of those dota people don't even know it's called warcraft 3. I'd hardly say those people are "keeping wc3 alive"

 

[Pharaoh_]

Maps firstly reflect the current games of the market and after some point, certain people start being creative (=try to avoid the cliches, e.g. world being created out of four elements, which are the primary stooges of a mage or the initiating classes being warrior and mage).

Most modders have much to learn from the gaming industries, while most gaming industries have much to learn from the modders.

 

[JB_McKnight]

Some reasons why some mappers discontinue projects:

they run out of ideas
they meet a problem and they don't have any access to a solution or HELP
Boredom
They develop ideas for other projects, and decide to discontinue their current projects to start on the new project



ps. The longest you've been working on a map was Three Days??

pfffftt!!

Mine is 3 years!!! (And still ongoing)

 

[sonofjay]

bro? dota is the only thing keeping wc3 alive atm

What is dota? is that a map on warcraft 3?

Some of those dota people don't even know it's called warcraft 3. I'd hardly say those people are "keeping wc3 alive"

What keeping wc3 alive is hive XD. No actually wc3 is alive because of people who still treasure this game.

 

[Vizel]

Yeah, sonofjay, I agree. I don't play on bnet anymore, but I play on Garena all the time with my buddies. we'll probably play it till we run out of games to play.

 

[deepstrasz]

Inspiring yourself from a game genre isn't stealing. It's not very original though. I don't like those people who take a map and put their name on it and even put cheats only they know on it and then protect the map too.

Boredom will be not present if you truly want to create a map. Laziness is the actual factor that keeps you from doing so.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

my warcraft 3 maps arent based on other projects but i just hope that i can get some of them released soon. i do work on starcraft 2 maps as well though.

 

[Animalpower]

Nor mine nor 70% of the mappers. There is always somebody who knows if you stole the map. Most of these copied maps spoked of are rejected.

 

[InfinateAnswers]

This is why i quit doing maps, and stuck to doing spells for people who wanted them, and giving my friends original spell ideas for their maps, i cannot make a uniform map before i start working, i dont have a goal, i never get my map to a testing stage, and my lack of patience and high laziness makes me quit on the idea all together.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

my ideas are always mine. (faction war, war over land, sea war, blood and magic and all races.) my maps usually reach a public test stage.

 

[limuka]

Meh... I just work at more then 1 map at once... if i get an idea for one map then i start on that one again etc etc
And i agree... Hive is what keeps Wc3 alive.
Except that ive stopped quite alot on maps... mainly just out of boredom... or cuz one of my friends dislikes the map while im making it xD
Then again i mainly only make maps to play with some friends and deleted it after... xD
Maybe i should stop doing that... Oh well, My maps suck anyway

 

[Radiv]

Over the years, I've had hundreds of game ideas and I've started them all in the Editor. The longest time I've spent on any particular one was three days.

I feel really passionate about making the map, at first, but then I just don't want to and move on to a new one, repeating and repeating and repeating. I really want to publish a game but I've never finished one.

Does anyone else have this problem, where they are just incapable of finishing a map?

yeah...
me to.

 

[RandomPogi]

For me, the best way to continue is don't treat it like work, treat it like a hobby, be optimistic, have a team with the same enthusiasm, and take breaks. No one can work forever without resting.

 

[Vizel]

Taking breaks can be dangerous if not done right.

For instance, I was forced to take a break in the middle of creating the biggest system in my map, and due to various reasons I was unable to work on the map for a couple days. When I came back, I had NO IDEA where I was going with that system, because I was trying to make this whole system run off of 2 triggers instead of the 5 I originally figured it would require. Even though I left comments, I can stare at it for 30 minutes and still not figure out what the hell I was thinking. I was so sure that I could get it to work, too.

Anyway, the point of this monologue is that breaks are important, but shouldn't be taken unless you can pick up where you left off, lol.

 

[WaterKnight]

I take a lot of time structuring my code, which is why I still have a clue after months and years of not touching the project. This must be hell for GUI users lol.

 

[Vizel]

I take a lot of time structuring my code, which is why I still have a clue after months and years of not touching the project. This must be hell for GUI users lol.

Yes. It is. lol....

 

[Afisti]

Lack of audience, and people have become too much demanding.
Back in 2004-2005 it was incredible, you had tons of new maps being made day after day, you had:

-Bugz vs Humans (TAG)
-Sheep Tag (TAG)
-Hero Wars (AOS)
-Dota Classic (AOS)
-Dota Allstars (AOS)
-Ghouls Wars (Arena)
-X Hero Siege (Hero Defense)
-Golden Tournament (something like an Arena but a bit different)
-Diablo Duel (Arena)
-Ninja vs Samurai (Arena-Stealth)
-Wintermaul (TD)
-Mafarazzo TD (TD)
-Kodo Tag (TAG)
-Autumn's Crossing (TD)
-Burbenog TD (TD)
-Tree Tag (TAG)
-Vampirism (TAG)
-Green TD (TD)
-Battleships and Battletanks (particular AOS)
-Life of a Peasant and its spinoffs (LOAP)
-Darwin's Island
-Gang Wars & Gang Wars Tournament
-Helm's Deep (Hero Defense)
-7 Blademasters, DH, Paladins etc...
-Parasite
-Werewolf & Dark Deeds
-Are you a retard & its spinoffs
-Line Tower Wars (TW)
-Tropical Tower Wars (TW)
-Hero line wars (HLW)
-Europa (RTS)
-Fall (and Rise) of Rome (RTS)

and maaaaaaaany others.
Now, except Battleships, battletanks, Dota Allstars and maybe line tower and hero line wars, every map has basic gameplay, triggering and nearly no imported models, and you know what? People didn't give a fuck about that, as long as it was fun it was good. Legolas even had Sylvanas model!!!
Now i don't know what it's wrong with people, but if the map you're hosting hasn't got kickass imported models and/or a complex triggering, you won't get it played unless it is already famous.
The only maps i see hosted are Green TD, Legion TD, Castle Wars, Vampirism and few others (on Garena).
I've seen just a new map in 2 years and it's Survival Chaos (that is a bit boring, it's quite good but a bit boring after a while).
Also, it's a lot difficult to get your map famous now because of the lack of people playing wc3. In 2004 you posted in on WC3sear, EpicWar, hosted it on bnet and if it was cool, in a matter of days your map would spam the custom game list.
Now it is unlikely that it will ever happen.

 

[WaterKnight]

Now i don't know what it's wrong with people, but if the map you're hosting hasn't got kickass imported models and/or a complex triggering, you won't get it played unless it is already famous.

My impressions are that technical features are not that important. Most people are not versed anyway but what they want is flashiness and be busy playing it without too hard setbacks, being able to pwn the enemy or raising your strength. Infact, a lot of shitty or very simple maps are played or at least known.

The only maps i see hosted are Green TD, Legion TD, Castle Wars, Vampirism and few others (on Garena).

You want to tell me that those have got complex triggers and a unique design?

Also, it's a lot difficult to get your map famous now because of the lack of people playing wc3. In 2004 you posted in on WC3sear, EpicWar, hosted it on bnet and if it was cool, in a matter of days your map would spam the custom game list.
Now it is unlikely that it will ever happen.

The abuse of bots enabled/disabled a lot.

 

[Vizel]

Legion TD has a unique twist to it, for sure, WaterKnight.

For me the only reason I don't play Legion TD on BNet is because the bots want a full house, in which games rarely make it past level 8, and I would rather play 20+ levels.

Anyway, on BNet, I see the occasional random map hosted, but if there isn't a bot hosting it, nobody will bother playing it. So unless you have a bot ready your map won't get hosted (On BNet)

No idea where people find games other than dota on Garena. all I ever see is dota, so I just go to the (TFT) other wc3 one instead and play with a handful of friends instead.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

Well if you wanna be motivated:
1. Announce your project
2. You get many people who likes in and they will pressure you to finish it, since nobody wants to disappoint fans.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

 

[Afisti]

Legion TD has a unique twist to it, for sure, WaterKnight.

For me the only reason I don't play Legion TD on BNet is because the bots want a full house, in which games rarely make it past level 8, and I would rather play 20+ levels.

Anyway, on BNet, I see the occasional random map hosted, but if there isn't a bot hosting it, nobody will bother playing it. So unless you have a bot ready your map won't get hosted (On BNet)

No idea where people find games other than dota on Garena. all I ever see is dota, so I just go to the (TFT) other wc3 one instead and play with a handful of friends instead.

Garena is structured by Rooms, there are Dota rooms and RPG rooms (everything else), just go to RPG rooms if you wanna find other games.

They haven't got complex triggers, but they got unique design (except Castle Wars). Keep in mind that Green TD was made something like 7 years ago, and Vamprism 6-7 i think. And come on, have you ever seen a TD with units before Legion TD?

 

[WaterKnight]

Legion TD has a unique twist to it, for sure, WaterKnight.

They haven't got complex triggers, but they got unique design (except Castle Wars). Keep in mind that Green TD was made something like 7 years ago, and Vamprism 6-7 i think. And come on, have you ever seen a TD with units before Legion TD?

Even 6-7 years ago, there were such simple td and tag maps like Green TD/Vampirism. A TD with units, well there were some where you could spawn something on the lanes like blockers or mines or have a movable hero and other mixes of towers and unit control. I do admit that Legion TD has this one unique twist but that's as far as it goes. Everything else it pretty much old concepts and with design I also mean the art. Those popular maps hardly have any imports or a themed style.

 

[InfinateAnswers]

Well if you wanna be motivated:
1. Announce your project
2. You get many people who likes in and they will pressure you to finish it, sicne nobody wants to disappoint fans.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

i dont mind about disappointing people, if im not having fun with the project, then i wont work on it.

 

[Vizel]

Garena is structured by Rooms, there are Dota rooms and RPG rooms (everything else), just go to RPG rooms if you wanna find other games.

They haven't got complex triggers, but they got unique design (except Castle Wars). Keep in mind that Green TD was made something like 7 years ago, and Vamprism 6-7 i think. And come on, have you ever seen a TD with units before Legion TD?

Yes, I understand the structure behind Garena. The problem is, the only maps I ever see in those RPG rooms is unfortunately dota. Like having a dozen+ dota rooms isn't enough.

Furthermore, I hadn't seen a "TD" where your towers turned into uncontrollable units requiring a bit of an RPG mindset (stretching this thin, can't think of another way to put it) in that you should put your tanks in front and healers in the rear.

Even 6-7 years ago, there were such simple td and tag maps like Green TD/Vampirism. A TD with units, well there were some where you could spawn something on the lanes like blockers or mines or have a movable hero and other mixes of towers and unit control. I do admit that Legion TD has this one unique twist but that's as far as it goes. Everything else it pretty much old concepts and with design I also mean the art. Those popular maps hardly have any imports or a themed style.

Well, there's a somewhat newer map (2008 or 2009 methinks) called YouTD which attacks all of the things you're talking about. There's no such thing as a standard wc3 model. The arena of the map looks really good. There's an extremely complex damage system that is practically unheard of in wc3, except perhaps in TKOK. All custom abilities, items, etc. And to put one more twist on it, it's a community-made map where anyone can contribute an item or spell to the map. It's also random as to what levels you will get so the replay value is through the roof.

While it is hard to make "unique" maps, as far as it being impossible, I would have to disagree--although, I do have to say it is improbable to do so. Even so, if the game is fun, and there's enough of a fanbase, there is a possibility that your map could do well. It doesn't need all sorts of fancy models (Besides, that just hikes up the filesize for pure aesthetics) even though they do make the game look better.

If you're worried about people not wanting to play your map, just make a really pretty post about it here on the hive, and you'll gather SOME attention as long as it is coherent. WHat you do with that attention afterwards is up to you

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

i dont mind about disappointing people, if im not having fun with the project, then i wont work on it.

Well most dont like to disappoint, well I also dont mind.
I just apologize though.
I love to see the look on the faces of die hard fans of a huge project with like 1000+ replies dies

 

[WaterKnight]

Yes, I understand the structure behind Garena. The problem is, the only maps I ever see in those RPG rooms is unfortunately dota. Like having a dozen+ dota rooms isn't enough.

Although a lot of the existing DotA rooms are empty most of the time.

Furthermore, I hadn't seen a "TD" where your towers turned into uncontrollable units requiring a bit of an RPG mindset (stretching this thin, can't think of another way to put it) in that you should put your tanks in front and healers in the rear.

Other TDs require you to put your towers in an order too but the least have aggressive runners that can destroy them, which is why it normally matters less.

Well, there's a somewhat newer map (2008 or 2009 methinks) called YouTD which attacks all of the things you're talking about. There's no such thing as a standard wc3 model. The arena of the map looks really good. There's an extremely complex damage system that is practically unheard of in wc3, except perhaps in TKOK. All custom abilities, items, etc. And to put one more twist on it, it's a community-made map where anyone can contribute an item or spell to the map. It's also random as to what levels you will get so the replay value is through the roof.

I know YouTD. Infact it was made by gexxo, a user who was active on inwarcraft.de and also posted about it there. As expected, with the community contributing towers, the TD again was not theme-based except being of an element, which is very 08/15. The terrain is still wc3ish, the damage system a simple rock-paper-scissors or what do you mean? The upgrading of towers through gained materials was a twist but not very useful and random too. Now, that you mention items, there are hardly TDs where you have to apply charged items or in general make use of fading resources.

While it is hard to make "unique" maps, as far as it being impossible, I would have to disagree--although, I do have to say it is improbable to do so. Even so, if the game is fun, and there's enough of a fanbase, there is a possibility that your map could do well. It doesn't need all sorts of fancy models (Besides, that just hikes up the filesize for pure aesthetics) even though they do make the game look better.

I have said the same. A lot of popular maps are not that aesthetic nor have imported stuff.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I got the opposite of your problem:
I always want to let loose of Gaias Retaliation ORPG, but somehow it always mystically calls me back, even if I don't have the time for it...

I graveyarded the map two times now, but in the end, I always ended up adding something new to it even after months of abstinence.

 

[OMGOMGOMG]

@Zwiebelchen I stopped making my map... And then it called me back.. and ever since that day I have been adding a bunch new stuff, making it better.

I have the same problem as you. I like this map and its going to get finished cause of this. I don't care if people say "oh, now that's just shit!" or something along those lines.

I have yet to come past a comment saying that....... Thread:

http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/171440-Another-RolePlay-map-P

 

[RandomPogi]

Taking breaks can be dangerous if not done right.

For instance, I was forced to take a break in the middle of creating the biggest system in my map, and due to various reasons I was unable to work on the map for a couple days. When I came back, I had NO IDEA where I was going with that system, because I was trying to make this whole system run off of 2 triggers instead of the 5 I originally figured it would require. Even though I left comments, I can stare at it for 30 minutes and still not figure out what the hell I was thinking. I was so sure that I could get it to work, too.

Anyway, the point of this monologue is that breaks are important, but shouldn't be taken unless you can pick up where you left off, lol.

Very True.

 

[Map Designer]

Initial problem: mapper lose motivation.

Following problem: Unlike the old days, good maps do not receive that much attention or are not cared about.

Then, let us make it TO THE BETTER... solutions

 

[The Wizard]

there are some reasons
1) mapmaker as an artist has TOO MUCH ideas. one day you like your work, next day you wake up with new ideas on it and your old ones seem silly to you. you are remaking your map again and again...
2) your work can't satisfy you at all. somewhat similar to #1. this feeling appears when you see many other maps and you find some great [insert the object of envy]. you want these thing too and result is clear(see #1)

solution: brand-new ideas. for now everyone wants big sweety map full of custom models. what the players need - original gameplay. gameplay is the most important for game. graphics are on second place.

thanks for attention

 

[PurplePoot]

I'd guess the main culprit for most people here is that they are interested in either

A) The concept
B) Doing something challenging

and once they get past the initial thing they were interested in they lose steam because they weren't actually interested in the final product. If you find a map that you genuinely want to play and have other people play it's quite easy to finish, at least in my experience (that's how I finally finished a map).

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Often, death of a project (not only a map) is caused by bad planning. Project leader always has to plan all the work because of two reasons:
1) Fans will be happy to see progress. Happy fans - good reason to work.
2) People themself will see progress they made, which will make them happier too.
Also he has to choose who must do some parts of work very carefully. Giving guy too easy work will make him lazier and giving too hard will demotive him to do anything - he will go sad if he can't handle it.
Also you must never do story/items/smth like that first. Because if u made nothing exept that your work will be almost useless. You alway have to begin from codding, then you will do everything else.

 

[jxtranghero]

I think because the temperature now is too hot

 

[mckill2009]

if you have hundreds of ideas for a map/spell/system etc...finish the one that suits you more, you cant finish even one if you keep on creating a new one...

 

[KuWe]

I usually has this problem when the map I'm making becomes too large (too many ideas) and snowballs out of control and then I lose all my interest towards it because I realise I can never finish it in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Good idea if u can't handle creating a map - to make a team o mappers and to try together. And it will be much better if teamleader has some positive experience.

 

[Malvodion]

I lost motivation for a lot of reasons, mostly because I have a lot of very complex ideas that were pretty much imposible to make, atleast alone, and because even if I was able to make the maps people wouldn't play them, because most of the wc3 players nowdays only care about simple maps with generic and easy gameplay and can't be bothered to learn new ones.

 

[FockeWulf]

I am soo glad I am not an artist. At least not in the traditional sense.

I'm an engineer: I like making something that works and is used. A map to me is more like a problem and I like to find solutions.

In fact I got through over halfway the mechanical engineering program before I decided I liked CS better.

Still its very much a grind. I have found ways to help though. If I want to force myself to work on WW2 Diplo after so much rejection and dissapointments I usually just kick on greatest tank battles or pull out my copy of "The Longest Day" or some other WW2 Film.

That was actually a big key. Watching a show, movie, clip or even playing a video game based on the theme really helped to motivate me and a few other mappers have done the same thing.

Which means I have to avoid watching Star Trek or I start doing things like this:

Or I watch Red October (one of my favs) and stuff like this starts comming out: