How/is warcraft 3 an RPG?

[titans_zealot]

I've been watching videos and talking to people about how Skyrim is not a RPG (or at least a small one) and I've been thinking about the points/what makes RPG games. If warcraft 3 is considered a Strategy RPG (I am not sure if it is or is just called that), what are the "RPG" elements of this game?

What are the factors that make W3 a RPG if it is one? The story is just the story and imagining/pretending to be something doesn't count, but there are custom maps that allow the game to be an RPG.

 

[knight26]

To my opinion it is an RPG. Since many times during the campaign you take roles to play the game (Role Playing Game).
Take for instance how immersed you get to a few memorable characters. Arthas is a perfect example. When you are in his role, you destroy Quel'Thelas, release the legion, then sit on the frozen throne.

If we're speaking normal playthrough, you can rpg just perfectly if intended on. Let's say you're playing nightelves. Nothing's stopping you from imagining that you're playing a certain faction say Maieve's Watchers.

For me, anything that has me emotionally entangled and immersed in a game, is an RPG game.

 

[DaneTheBeast]

Where does the definition end? Because you can say that every first person shooter game is a RPG, since you're role-playing a soldier and whatnot...
I don't see warcraft 3 as a RPG since you don't have one character which you can customize, instead you always control an army.

 

[knight26]

Where does the definition end? Because you can say that every first person shooter game is a RPG, since you're role-playing a soldier and whatnot...
I don't see warcraft 3 as a RPG since you don't have one character which you can customize, instead you always control an army.

I'd rather say that Warcraft III is an RTS with RPG elements. Since it's not a pure RTS, for example the Stronghold Crusaders chronicles, Civilization chronicles.

Edit:
Also, Call of Duty(the original) would be FPS/RPG. While Counter-Strike is pure FPS.

 

[Chaosy]

I'd argue that wc3 is too scripted to be called an RPG.
An RPG should contain options, much like Detriot.

 

[titans_zealot]

To my opinion it is an RPG. Since many times during the campaign you take roles to play the game (Role Playing Game).
Take for instance how immersed you get to a few memorable characters. Arthas is a perfect example. When you are in his role, you destroy Quel'Thelas, release the legion, then sit on the frozen throne.

If we're speaking normal playthrough, you can rpg just perfectly if intended on. Let's say you're playing nightelves. Nothing's stopping you from imagining that you're playing a certain faction say Maieve's Watchers.

For me, anything that has me emotionally entangled and immersed in a game, is an RPG game.

Yeah that is my thought process, or at least was before today. I believe that an RPG entangles someone with immersion in a game like you said, but apparently when you compare this warcraft 3 rpg to proper rpg games that aren't strategy (text, adventure, etc), then Warcraft 3 doesn't have many options or no options at all to be considered an RPG like Chaosy said "too scripted". Since nothing you do in the game (at least in campaign) has any effect later on in the story besides having items carried over that don't influence the story in any way. If you want to let's say roleplay that Arthas didn't get a Orb of Fire from the Dwarves in Black Rock'N'Roll it won't really matter because either it isn't mentioned in the lore or gets conned over with the official results.

The problem with taking the role in destroying Quel'Thelas is that its or mission and yes you can get into the story of you being the big bad dude but in the end you don't "role play" but instead Cut scenes and the story does it for you (I'm saying this as a devils advocate)

I truly wish to consider Warcraft 3 an RPG because of its great story (and other things) but some technicalities that may or may not be true are making me question it.

 

[chobibo]

I don't know. It was fun playing it though.

 

[titans_zealot]

sure is!

 

[Kaijyuu]

What does and doesn't constitute an RPG is a very, very old debate. Typical usage tends to imply "leveling up" in some fashion (see: all those FPS games with "RPG mechanics"), so wc3's campaign would fit that criteria. However almost every game out there these days has some amount of power progression, so some people add criteria like "story focus" or even strict gameplay requirements (like having a party to manage, or turn based battles).

It's a fuzzy concept.

 

[titans_zealot]

I'm just going to place it as a RPG in my heart

 

[nedio95]

I'll start with a few "I don't think this applies" statements.

We have full 100% RPG in the custom maps, yea, sure.
But we also have Racing, Naval Simulators, First Person Shooters, Horror, Mini-games and many more.
Don't go custom to slap a genre on war3.

I don't think that "your decisions affects later gameplay/story" or "only one way to go" or "fixed story" or are a valid points for making something RPG or not.
There are many, many, many, MANY RPG games that don't have such thing.
e.g. have main quest, linear progression, maybe branching side quests, kill final boss.
At some point, somebody though "hmm, how about we make some little choice change story ?"
So, now the decisions you make change the outcome.
e.g. have main quest, have branching side quests, get to final boss, kill him or join him.
The former does not make a game non-RPG.

The point about FPS isn't 100% valid either, but even then, there are RPG games from FP perspective and there are also RPG games that the gameplay is FPS.


All that said;

I'd say that RPG is when there is a certain level of immersion within the characters, when you associate the game with the characters more than the game itself (not talking only named characters).

In war3, you are assuming the role of one of the named characters (talking campaign here) and his team, sometimes only 2-3 footmen, other times a whole army and few towns and act through a main quest with some side quests which enhance the experience or/and gameplay and/or character progression. The story is character-centered and immersive. Characters progress through the story, gaining new powers, abilities, skills and tactical diversity. e.g. Level-ups, abilities, items, units (yes, units, the characters are mostly army "generals" and the units they get are part of their tools)

I've never thought of war3 as RPG.
Strategy game with rpg elements? Yea sure.
The most story-driven Strategy game ever ? Yea. StarCraft 2 is a close competitor but I don't think that it has even a 1/10th of the lore of warcraft (whole franchise included for both)
But an RPG ? Mmmmm neh~ Strategy.

Anyway, in the end, I don't think that it really matters if you call war3 a Strategy, RPG, Strategy RPG.

regards
-Ned

 

[knight26]

I'll start with a few "I don't think this applies" statements.


Anyway, in the end, I don't think that it really matters if you call war3 a Strategy, RPG, Strategy RPG.

regards
-Ned

I agree with your last statement. Warcraft 3 is simply special. Not unique, but special.
I suppose this could also be said for a great number of games out there. Take Half-Life for example, it's FPS but also immersive in a way that you could call it RPG.

The best and most memorable games are those that are special. There's a lot of factors that contribute into making a game memorable, and if everything fits together you have an outcome that creates a masterpiece. Such is art.

 

[A Void]

Warcraft 3 was supposed to be a role playing strategy game - RPS. It was during early alpha, around 2000/2001. Years later it was revamped back into a typical Warcraft RTS game to be closer to it's predecessors.

In alpha you would spend much less time in a base and more time making your own squads and controlling them alongside your hero. There was no base building in alpha, buildings were only upgradeable. You could also capture neutral mine shafts, lumber mills and other buildings to automatically increase your income.

Right now Warcraft 3 is not an rpg, it's an rts with some rpg elements. Much like Warcraft 2.

 

[nedio95]

Years later it was revamped back into a typical Warcraft RTS game to be closer to it's predecessors.

Wasn't that more like "as soon as there was a tech demo available for the team", which as well may be "years later" in large-scale projects...

regards
-Ned

 

[titans_zealot]

Warcraft 3 was supposed to be a role playing strategy game - RPS. It was during early alpha, around 2000/2001. Years later it was revamped back into a typical Warcraft RTS game to be closer to it's predecessors.

In alpha you would spend much less time in a base and more time making your own squads and controlling them alongside your hero. There was no base building in alpha, buildings were only upgradeable. You could also capture neutral mine shafts, lumber mills and other buildings to automatically increase your income.

Right now Warcraft 3 is not an rpg, it's an rts with some rpg elements. Much like Warcraft 2.

Thanks for a good explanation

 

[titans_zealot]

Also was this one reason/effect of Blizzard planning to make WoW and Warcraft 3 into separate games with separate genres?

 

[A Void]

Also was this one reason/effect of Blizzard planning to make WoW and Warcraft 3 into separate games with separate genres?

yep! WoW actually uses a heavily modified Warcraft 3 engine.