Hero Contest #3 - Avatar

[Kingz]

I think the theme is fine and i am curious when will this get aproved

EDIT:

I think the theme score will be affected by the fact are the heroes skills actually reasonable for that hero, example a tinker which breaths fire casts war stomps and can reanimate dead is something you shouldn't see in my opinion

 

[Duruka]

Ok, so my favorite class is mage. And my favorite race are orcs. So could I do an orc mage? Or would it have to be something that represents me more personally?

I would join if this gets approved. It would be my first contest to.

Edit: Oh, and does the model have to be custom or have a hero glow? Or could I just use a creep model if I wanted?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well the model only really has to fit with the theme, it doesn't need to look like a hero model (though that may help in:

Visual How does your hero/spells/icons/ect look (Eye Candy).

).

Ok, so my favorite class is mage. And my favorite race are orcs. So could I do an orc mage? Or would it have to be something that represents me more personally?

That's really up to interpretation as it's not a judge of you, but how well your spells fit your theme which is supposed to represent you. Do an Orc Mage if you want, it's pretty much up to you.

 

[Duruka]

Ok, thanks. I guess I could use a creep model and add a Hero Glow if possible. I'd do something better then an orc mage, but I can't really think of...oh wait...I could do Star Wars. I'm obsessed with Star Wars. Whatever, I'll try to think of something before it starts...Hope this gets approved.

 

[JokeMaster]

And i have made just my first concept ideas for mah warrior...

 

[Kingz]

Any major reason why this is still pending?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Why do we have a theme if it's not there to have entries based on? And if my avatar (my representation) would be something with completely opposite skills, they would look like rubbish to someone else, while they would perfectly represent me. That's why avatar is not a good theme, because it's not based on something solid.

But it's not based on if how well it represents you, but how well they are put together in a coherent way. Even if the completely opposite skills represent you perfectly you should still see that it's not very good as it should make sense to other people - though Art will have a special meaning to the artist, the artist still has to make it reach other people even if the message isn't exactly the same, or else no one would want to display it.

 

[Cr34p]

I could do the judging

 

[Avator]

But it's not based on if how well it represents you, but how well they are put together in a coherent way. Even if the completely opposite skills represent you perfectly you should still see that it's not very good as it should make sense to other people - though Art will have a special meaning to the artist, the artist still has to make it reach other people even if the message isn't exactly the same, or else no one would want to display it.

But then what's the point of the theme of you don't have to base your entry on it?

 

[Kingz]

Avator i see you like to argue in contest threads a lot, and i am just gonna ask this:

Are you going to participate in the contest?

If not i see no reason why are you making such a big thing about the theme...

 

[Avator]

Yes, I might be joining this contest if it's more cleared up.

And also: Yes, I argue a lot in contest threads. I see a lot of them fail (luckily not all) and a lot are poorly set together. Most of those who I try to convince they're not going to work end up like I predicted (and it's not because of me. I'm not a saboteur and I see no profit in it for me to sabotage contests).

 

[Pharaoh_]

Avator I agree with you. This concept actually sounds really original, but the theme drift will ruin it actually, because this example says everything:

I could represent myself (for example) by a 70m tall colossus, but I love going stealthy. For an outsider, that is completely illogical, in witch case either I score bad at Theme

It's way vague and the axes are bit on/off (you can't really define the boundaries on what to judge), but, if the judges believe that the judgement is doable, go for it, cause I will represent myself with the mighty Egypt

 

[Freyleyes]

I could do the judging

Thanks, if its ok with you I will add you as a judge. Now we finally have a judge.

I asked HVO to take a look at this thread, but he hasn't replied yet.

Edit

Would it be better to phrase the theme of the contest to this :

Hero Contest #3

Each contestant must create a warcraft 3 hero that represents him. The hero does not have to have the characteristics of the creator,
but rather how the contestant wants to be seen as a warcraft hero.

Judging and voting :

Originality : How original the hero is. Small derivations of standard WC3 heroes won't yield much score in this category. /5
Visual : How does your hero/spells/icons/ect look (Eye Candy). /5
Coding : How leak free, efficient, and well structured the coding of the map is. /25
Synergy : How well the abilities fit together. /15

 

[Cr34p]

yep add me since I have no time for entering but for judging XD

 

[Freyleyes]

Ok, so we have a judge, thanks to xD.

 

[JokeMaster]

So can we start creating those shit?

 

[Freyleyes]

Still needs to get approved.

 

[Kingz]

Notify Gilles or Pyritie, i think it should get aproved fast.

 

[Freyleyes]

Thanks Kingz, will do.

 

[Duruka]

I'm brainstorming ideas for my hero, and was just wondering...does an aura count as a passive ability?

 

[Freyleyes]

does an aura count as a passive ability?

Yes, aura is passive.

 

[Duruka]

Alright, thanks...I'm kinda new to this stuff, and will probably lose the contest. But it would still be fun.

 

[Kingz]

The fun is the reason you should join the contest.

It is not the prize I am after it is the thrill of the contest

 

[Eccho]

The only thing which prevents me at the moment is a model:/

 

[Freyleyes]

I left Pyritie a VM, now lets wait and see.

 

[Aspard]

Most of all what I like about this contest is that we have many unique and cool new abilities And also it's a good chance to practice and beat maximum of your own skills

 

[Kingz]

Any updates about the status of this contest?

 

[Aspard]

Yeah, this should start soon. Will it be updated?

 

[Freyleyes]

I hope it gets approved soon. I left Pyritie a vm, but no response yet.

 

[Pyritie]

I like this.

I'll comb over it to fix grammar/spelling etc soon and then I'll post this.

If it wasn't so long since I touched WE I'd enter ;P

 

[Freyleyes]

Wooooooooooot!!!!!!!! Thanks

 

[Traxamillion]

I support this, great idea.

 

[Duruka]

Yay. Time to go practice making spells before the contest starts...I've only made a few of them before.

 

[Avator]

Py, I suggest you make sure the theme and judging on the theme is described clearly to avoid mistakes. In my opinion it's quite unclear.

 

[Direfury]

I am so totally in!

This looks like it could have an amazing turn out.

 

[Deaod]

Systems that do most of the work for you are not allowed. This includes things such as "Caster Systems". However, things such as damage detection or Struct attachment systems are fine [...]

Drop this rule already. This is not a coding competition, so let everyone code things the way they want to.

 

[Eccho]

So hence, the coding aspect is the actual judging vote which has the most maximum points, you suggest that everyone should abuse that by using other's large systems? What kind of point is that, we might aswell drop that to 5 points then.

 

[JokeMaster]

Can we start making our spells?

 

[Eccho]

It hasn't started

 

[Deaod]

you suggest that everyone should abuse that by using other's large systems?

Exactly. Tell me one reason NOT to reuse existing code (however complex it may be).

Edit:
I suggest removing the WIP requirement, as in my opinion it serves no good purpose.

If youre going to make this a coding competition, remove the Object Manipulation as possible means to create spells.

 

[Direfury]

Then the abilities of your hero/avatar wouldn't be yours.

 

[Eccho]

It ruins the entire purpose of the coding scoring

 

[Aspard]

What's with Knockback and Jumping systems again?
I can create my own, of course, specially for the contest and the hero, but what about Hero Contest #4? Seems like I'll have to create another ones for it

For me that seems like there is no point in disabling jumping/knockback systems since the spells, which are just stomp + knockback or Jump + Thunder clap won't give any rating.

 

[Cr34p]

WIP should be shown, since we can see if the progress is achived during this competition

also big systems (e.g. Caster System) should also be not allowed. I think the main asspect is the coding part, ofc effects etc. are also important

 

[Deaod]

WIP should be shown, since we can see if the progress is achived during this competition

Thats not the point of showing WIPs.

also big systems (e.g. Caster System) should also be not allowed. I think the main asspect is the coding part, ofc effects etc. are also important

You want me to write good code? Allow me to use all the libraries i deem necessary. Without any limitations. As far as i understand it, this is a design contest and not a coding contest. I dont even understand how coding can take 25 points (50%) while design only takes 15 (30%).

It ruins the entire purpose of the coding scoring

No. It doesnt.

Seems like I'll have to create another ones for it

Take a good long look at this. Now imagine well have another 10 Hero Contests and i happen to use Knockback in all of them. Id be braindead after the 3rd time.

I would like to spend my time doing creative things. Not sorting out bugs others have already sorted out in their libraries.

 

[Freyleyes]

We have to do something about the systems. I agree, you don't want to reinvent the wheel, but in a hero contest, coding counts. If we legalize all systems, users are going to use caster systems, or projectile systems, just edit a small amount of code(Really Small Amount) and then call it s spell they created.

Maybe we should do this :

These Systems are Restricted. - Xe, Nova Systems, or any other caster systems.
These Systems are Limeted - Jump, Knock Back, Projectile, ect

^ If you use on of these systems to create a spell, at least 75% of the spell must be your own original code. So in other words creating an simple knock back trigger, will give you no points, points will only be given if at least 75% is original.

* This does not include the library. Example of a knock back done wrong

Trigger Knockback

local unit u = GetTriggerUnit()
local unit n = GetSpellTargetUnit()

call KnockBack(u, n)

//-------------

This is just an suggestion. I still prefer the normal way, no big systems.
So lets hear what you have to say.

-Xiliger

 

[Pharaoh_]

just edit a small amount of code(Really Small Amount) and then call it s spell they created.

Well, then every spell in the Spells section that uses such systems should not have its author displayed, since they borrow codes?

Anyway, I agree with Deaod and disagree at the same time. This is indeed no coding contest, but it still remains a Hero Contest, where theme and coding are the most important factors. What if a hero is bugged? That submission is already a fail, so then, the coding automatically becomes the mpost important factor to judge.
Restrict the rules to what Xiliger suggested.
It's not a matter of coding anymore, people know nowadays how to make a jump system (at least those who are participating); borrowing a system also means that they are bored of generating the same ol' code.

 

[Pyritie]

Py, I suggest you make sure the theme and judging on the theme is described clearly to avoid mistakes. In my opinion it's quite unclear.

Yeah I was gonna go over that when I comb through it

Drop this rule already. This is not a coding competition, so let everyone code things the way they want to.

Heroes rely on coding to work, no? So coding is a pretty important part of hero contests. Just instead of making one ability you have to make four that work well together.

These rules aren't gonna change much from the last hero contest.

I suggest removing the WIP requirement, as in my opinion it serves no good purpose.

And in my opinion it serves a very good one. We have always had a WIP requirement and nobody thus far has had a problem with it. Showing a WIP of your work does not take much effort and can go a long way to help eliminate theft and provide feedback to the contestant.

Thats not the point of showing WIPs.

You want me to write good code? Allow me to use all the libraries i deem necessary. Without any limitations. As far as i understand it, this is a design contest and not a coding contest. I dont even understand how coding can take 25 points (50%) while design only takes 15 (30%).

No. It doesnt.

Take a good long look at this. Now imagine well have another 10 Hero Contests and i happen to use Knockback in all of them. Id be braindead after the 3rd time.

I would like to spend my time doing creative things. Not sorting out bugs others have already sorted out in their libraries.

One hero doesn't need a huge caster system. Hell, in Hero contest #1 I used vanilla jass with no libraries and I still won

Anyway we are going with the "small systems are okay as long as you don't use them to do your spell for you" thing. So knockback/jump systems are okay, stuff like caster systems are not.

At least I think that's how past hero contests did it.

 

[Deaod]

If we legalize all systems, users are going to use caster systems, or projectile systems, just edit a small amount of code(Really Small Amount) and then call it s spell they created.

If they do that, they get 0 points for originality. And if they intergrated the projectile system into their spells code, they also get 0 points for coding for not using an external library.

Heroes rely on coding to work, no?

No. They rely on spells. How you implement those spells is up to you. This has nothing to do with a coding competition, its about design and gameplay. Currently, i could do some halfassed spells with no synergy at all and still do moderately well. But thats not the point of a Hero Contest. If you think it is, then gogo, host the next four Zephyr contests at the same time and combine them. Thatd be honest.

These rules aren't gonna change much from the last hero contest.

And when do you plan on changing a rule? In ten years? I dont think WC3 modding will exist until then.

Showing a WIP of your work does not take much effort and can go a long way to help eliminate theft and provide feedback to the contestant.

First of all, it doesnt show theft of code. It can show theft for artwork, yes. But for code its entirely unreliable. Secondly, i dont mean to prohibit showing WIPs, just making them non-mandatory.

Hell, in Hero contest #1 I used vanilla jass with no libraries and I still won

That was 2 years ago, and 60% of the final result was decided by a public poll (i dont have to mention what effects that has, do i?).

At least I think that's how past hero contests did it.

Is that a reason not to change it for this contest? Look at it and see how it _should_ be done, not how it _was_ done before.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Hey, what about the imports? Should we have a limit there?

NOTICE: I think the rule over the passive skill should be changed. This follows a free theme now, and this passive one would ruin it in my opinion. I mean, having a passive skill is like expressing a passive aspect of us ^_^ Let the contestant decide how they want their spellset to look like.