GUI or Jass???

[turke]

Gui is a lot faster than that stupid Jass, isn't it?

 

[-JonNny]

lul
one of the best quotes ever

and... No its not. GUI = Graphical user interface
Means : behind each "GUI" function is JASS

Ever tried to convert a GUI trigger into Jass? you would see that in gui is many useless stuff and blizzard Jass functions. Jass >>> GUI

 

[Captain Griffen]

Jass is faster to write once you learn it, FAR faster to execute, and far more comprehensive in what it can do.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Gui is a lot faster for making simple triggers.

 

[turke]

fuck you stupid bitch

 

[Need_O2]

dont insult jass
it will get upset and cry :' (
hug it so it will be happy

 

[turke]

Ah, I know Jass is better, but I was arguing with my friend who insisted that Gui is better so to prove him I wrote this...
I apologize for any inconvenience...(I was really frustrated ATM)

 

[Super-Sheep]

Jass is "better", but GUI is enough. :/

 

[PurplePoot]

Not really. If GUI was enough no one would be using Jass.

 

[turke]

well i have started to learn c++ and now i can REALLY imagine how badly gui is done, before i thought that its ok but now i can see its a total wreckage =(

 

[Name_n]

Troll!!! :<

JK. GUI was meant to help the user of World Editor create triggers with a better understanding.

JASS is more 'unlimited' compared to GUI, meaning JASS has more options, while GUI does have its' limits. Examples of this include the ability of JASS to make several spells to be Multi-Instanceable(MUI), while in GUI, some spells can not be made MUI.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Gui is easy to use and my choice. I have been able to do nearly everything I've wanted to do with it.

Jass is harder to use but is completely unlimited. I think it's a little harder to learn and easily leaks with a low ammount of experience. If you want to edit literally everything about the game, use Jass.

There are a lot of extra functions with Jass, but Gui has everything a basic map maker would use.

 

[Eleandor]

Jass is harder to learn when you have absolutely no programming background. There's little to argue about that.

But if you do have some programming background, it doesn't have to be much (understanding variables & functions will do), you'll have picked up jass in no time.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Even with jass you can't edit everything about the game.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Even with jass you can't edit everything about the game.

I disagree.
Of course it's going to take more than WE features to change the game completely, but anything you want to do in WE, provided you have the right models, etc., can be done with JASS.

And Eleandor is right. It would be easy to learn if you have some experience, but hard if you dont, like me.

I have learned everything i know about WE on my own (referring to GUI).
It took a while, but i am satisfied with what I know.

Summary:

Use JASS if you are an extreme mapmaker with knowledge of variables and functions.

Use GUI if you are new with the world editor. once you get experienced, you can move to JASS or hone your GUI skills. Nothing good comes of beginner JASS users, at least when working on their own and learning from experience.

 

[Gamervidsman2000]

Ok you can use GUI for you little stuff like Hero selecting and all that stuff but i recommend useing JASS when you get into editing it can get more easy than GUI cuz you allready know what to type down. And i think JASS is perfect for makeing spells ive made my first spell with JASS and im new at it... It dont do any damage but it is getting there Lol

 

[PurplePoot]

Variables and functions are not advanced concepts.

And no, Jass cannot do even close to everything. It can just do everything that is possible within the scope of the 'trigger editor', ie: it can do everything it can do.

 

[Gamervidsman2000]

Well id used JASS for spells mainly and makeing them look good. More easy when useing good mathamatics.

 

[turke]

@ hawk900
The best reply I've seen in days =)

EDIT
Of course Jass isn't unlimited... C++ and such programs are... Jass could be even more powerful if you could include more advanced headers but it can do anything to satisfy any wc3 fan =D

 

[HINDYhat]

The only people who think GUI is far better are the ones who haven't tried learning Jass. No, skimming of Vexorian's Introduction to Jass does NOT count as learning Jass. Believe me, once you know it, you will never go back to GUI.

EDIT: Whoops.

 

[rover2341]

Eh. If the question is about speed then jass wins hands down.
As the GUI just converts back to jass.

If your talking about power Jass has more functionality then GUI, as some functions aren't exposed to the GUI.
From what i have found, is that jass is more used for custom spells. And with more speed and more flexibility it can be easyer to do complex logic.
Also its easier to share code with jass then the gui.

In General if i knew both i most likely would work in jass. But i don't know jass.And i know it would be a pain to learn it (I once spent 2 hours and realized learning it was boring, and looked like it would take me a week or two), even though i know a bit of c++ and c#. As learning synatax is not my favoirte thing to do.

If i can get by with using the GUI with out slowing my game progress down or hurting the overall result i don't see alot of reason to learn jass.
But that being said. The GUI is still very powerful, and can do complex logic simply and run fast enough with out the user noticing the difference on certain things. I have made a few games to show the power of the GUI, and trying to show that it wont be 500 triggers to do complex logic. It takes a bit more thinking as you have less flexibility and speed, but for all of my games it hasn't hurt it a bit. As there isn't noticeable lag. That said a little jass may by be required at times for some leaks. but for the most part purely gui.


I wrote tetris in c++ then moved it to GUI. I Wrote my roller coaster game in suducode and then moved it to GUI. (All My projects are 100% or nearly 100% GUI, Also Not locked)

In Conclusion, Yes Jass is faster more flexible more functionality and easier to share code with. But The GUI In most things, can have short code for complex logic, fast enough to run most things, and has a much smaller learner curve. So if you have the time to learn jass and care, its most likey wise.
But if you arnt making spells, and know the gui and don't care to learn jass, most of your projects you will get by just fine. As the GUI is much more powerful then people think.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

The only people who think GUI is far better are the ones who haven't tried learning Jass. No, skimming of Vexorian's Introduction to Jass does NOT count as learning Jass. Believe me, once you know it, you will never go back to GUI.

Oh, and to the guy who said that nothing good ever comes from people who start with Jass instead of GUI... I believe Poot here started from Jass and he's pretty much one of the best Jassers on Hive.

Nothing good comes of beginner JASS users, at least when working on their own and learning from experience.

I stand by my quote.

I would probably agree with your first comment. I have found it satisfying to use GUI. Like I said also, it allows you to do anything you would need to do for a normal map. JASS is better for an advanced map maker.

 

[HINDYhat]

It allows you to make stuff in a non-retarded way, it's easier, it's faster, it's more efficient, it's everything that GUI is not. I can't see why someone wouldn't take the day or two it requires to learn it.

 

[PurplePoot]

Pfft, learning GUI first is horrible (speaking from experience here), as you have to unlearn all the retarded habits you learn. I never got any good with GUI before I moved to Jass, if there is such a thing as good with GUI, but the point is, it doesn't help you to know GUI - It hinders you.

If it helps you, it's because it's motivation that you can do something when you look at Jass and go "wtf?"

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Are we GUI bashing? Or giving reasons for using JASS?

I'm confused here. I havent got a bad review on any of my maps?
Everything triggers fine for me.

 

[HINDYhat]

Your maps' scripting sucks.

I guess we'd have to start somewhere.

 

[rover2341]

If the game has no noticeable lag, then who cares?
(I am not saying this is true for everything, ex: not true for most custom spells)

 

[Kwah]

Okay, okayz.

A) JASS without vJass is llaaammeee.
B)

Try giving a reason.

Oh let's see. It's faster while running. It's faster to code once you learn it. It allows you to do things that would be horribly inefficient or broken with GUI. It has less totally retarded errors.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Okay, okayz.

A) JASS without vJass is llaaammeee.
B)

Oh let's see. It's faster while running. It's faster to code once you learn it. It allows you to do things that would be horribly inefficient or broken with GUI. It has less totally retarded errors.

Is it faster when the user is inexperienced? I'd think that a person would have a better understanding of something that displays what functions do, rather than just trying to guess what functions are.

I've already said that there is more functionality with JASS, that is agreed. Does that mean that people can't get desired effects with GUI? No.

What happens when you get 100 Syntax errors and you still haven't got any idea where you went wrong? That's 100 "retarded" errors.

JASS is better for the extreme mapmaker
GUI will do for the rest.

Both of them are effective. Both of them work.

 

[Vegavak]

I just wrote my first full JASS trigger, and I'm never going back to GUI.

I'm doing a full map conversion now. I didn't think it was THIS easy. Ha haha ha ha!

It's so easy!

 

[PurplePoot]

Archangel, I'll list you five fairly common Jass functions. You tell me if you know what they do.

CreateUnit
TriggerRegisterPlayerChatEvent
GroupEnumUnitsInRange
DestroyEffect
GroupRemoveUnit

--

Facts are: Jass is far more powerful than GUI. Yes, you can do a lot with GUI. No, you do not need Jass. The question is more whether you'd rather walk across burning hot sand in your bare feet or in a pair of sandals.

 

[toofless]

I can't use JASS from lack of programming knowledge. I understand functions and triggers but there are things I can't get my head round. Like taking and returning wtf is that all about.

The way I see it is that GUI is built for the beginner-advanced and JASS is for advanced +. In most case (?) that doesn't mean you can't use one for the other.

People say you can do most in GUI as in JASS but I understand that JASS is more efficient.

I say if you can use JASS, use it for efficiency.

 

[turke]

Pfft, learning GUI first is horrible (speaking from experience here), as you have to unlearn all the retarded habits you learn. I never got any good with GUI before I moved to Jass, if there is such a thing as good with GUI, but the point is, it doesn't help you to know GUI - It hinders you.

Exactly!
I have first learned GUI and now I am learning C++ and I realized how many bad habits I have picked up with GUI...
Jass is somewhat pretty similar to C++ and thus ofc more powerful...

 

[Avator]

PurplePoot: Meet the first person to tell you: I'm good with GUI.

I'm without a doubt a GUIer and I don't need JASS to make quality maps. GUI is understandable for everyone, simply because all you need to do is this logically. combine this with creativity and resourcefulness and you can make wonderful things. There are many, many GUI spells and maps uploaded here on the Hive, so everybody can understand what exactly is made in those triggers. You can even ask non-Wc3 players for help because you might have made a thinking problem (like an infinite loop), which they can spot since they only have to read what it says.
GUI grants me everything I need and everybody here will notice that once I launch my FFIX battle demo.

So to sum it all up
GUI:
-Simple understandable English
-Only requires searching and logical thinking
-No need to learn any sort of language
JASS:
-Lots of writing instead of a few clicks
-Requires you to learn the language before able to do anything
-Allows you to use a bunch of functions of which most of them, you'll never have to use.

I guess that should be enough reason for me not to go JASS.

 

[turke]

well, I disagree because I can think right now few thing that are impossible to be done good in GUi...
for an example it is impossible to make non-leaking general unit damage detection...to put it simply you CANNOT detect damage that is dealt to any unit in Gui without having it leak...

 

[Viikuna]

Jass is fun, GUI is not.


And:

Damage Detection is pretty tricky even if you use Jass. You either leak trigger events or destroy your triggers taking a risk of handle stack corruption or recycle all your units.

edit. I remember that Captain Griffen has this pretty cool damage detection system, which destroyed triggers after some time or something like that, but wc3c is down so I cant take look at that code

JASS without vJass is llaaammeee.

Ye, this is why I feel sorry for all mac users.

 

[Kwah]

Well: If it wasn't for vJass, I would probably not bother to learn Jass.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Archangel, I'll list you five fairly common Jass functions. You tell me if you know what they do.

CreateUnit
TriggerRegisterPlayerChatEvent
GroupEnumUnitsInRange
DestroyEffect
GroupRemoveUnit

--

Facts are: Jass is far more powerful than GUI. Yes, you can do a lot with GUI. No, you do not need Jass. The question is more whether you'd rather walk across burning hot sand in your bare feet or in a pair of sandals.

All those functions would be simple to understand, not so simple to use.
Just from looking at that, I'd have no idea how to use them.

I have said that jass is more powerful, yes. That doesn't make GUI obsolete like some are suggesting. The point I'm trying to make is that..

Both systems are good in their own sense.
Both systems are effective with experience
and, Both systems have their perks.

Argue it all you want, you'll never prove it to be wrong.
Some people like GUI
Some people like JASS
Get over it.

 

[PurplePoot]

Are we GUI bashing? Or giving reasons for using JASS?

They're the same thing in many cases. GUI is bad relative to Jass because X could be considered both GUI bashing and giving a reason to use Jass.

If the game has no noticeable lag, then who cares?
(I am not saying this is true for everything, ex: not true for most custom spells)

If you're willing to suffer through it, more power to you.

Is it faster when the user is inexperienced? I'd think that a person would have a better understanding of something that displays what functions do, rather than just trying to guess what functions are.

Function list ftw?

PurplePoot: Meet the first person to tell you: I'm good with GUI.

I'm without a doubt a GUIer and I don't need JASS to make quality maps.

Of course you can make good maps with GUI. They are still more restricted though

GUI is understandable for everyone, simply because all you need to do is this logically.

Programming is basically pure logic.

combine this with creativity and resourcefulness and you can make wonderful things. There are many, many GUI spells and maps uploaded here on the Hive, so everybody can understand what exactly is made in those triggers. You can even ask non-Wc3 players for help because you might have made a thinking problem (like an infinite loop), which they can spot since they only have to read what it says.

Fair point, but I'd personally rather ask a highly experienced person than some random guy.

GUI grants me everything I need and everybody here will notice that once I launch my FFIX battle demo.

Only because you don't know what you're missing out on or what workarounds you have to do until you see the easier way.

-Simple understandable English

Fair point. However, Jass, as I demonstrated, is also simple understandable English.

-Only requires searching and logical thinking

Jass can be done the same way with a program such as JassCraft.

-No need to learn any sort of language

That's a bad thing, as it makes the user make horrible mistakes. When you get 'good' with GUI, it's because you've actually learned how to use it - it isn't any easier than learning how to use Jass, you just don't notice it because you don't think of it that way.

-Lots of writing instead of a few clicks

You'd have to use it to understand why this is actually an advantage.

-Requires you to learn the language before able to do anything

Thus preventing users from completely destroying themselves. Besides, you can start doing simple stuff in an hour or two.

-Allows you to use a bunch of functions of which most of them, you'll never have to use.

But the option of using them is comforting and often saves a lot of time.

I guess that should be enough reason for me not to go JASS.

Be my guest, but please don't mislead other people.

All those functions would be simple to understand, not so simple to use.
Just from looking at that, I'd have no idea how to use them.

The fact that you understand halfway without ever having tried to touch Jass shows that it's a hell of a lot easier than you are acting.

I have said that jass is more powerful, yes. That doesn't make GUI obsolete like some are suggesting. The point I'm trying to make is that.

It makes it at a significant disadvantage. This is more for the user's sanity than functionality though (Oh god, 3 clicks and several menues to add two numbers...).

Both systems are good in their own sense

In what way is GUI good?

Both systems are effective with experience

All systems are effective, but some are more effective than others.

and, Both systems have their perks.

Name one perk of GUI.

Argue it all you want, you'll never prove it to be wrong.
Some people like GUI
Some people like JASS
Get over it.

But that doesn't make them on equal footing.

--

A last comment. Isn't it interesting how GUI users who have no knowledge of Jass are divided as to which of the two is better, but Jass users are 100% in favour of Jass?

There's something in that, you know.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Troll!!! :<

JK. GUI was meant to help the user of World Editor create triggers with a better understanding.

JASS is more 'unlimited' compared to GUI, meaning JASS has more options, while GUI does have its' limits. Examples of this include the ability of JASS to make several spells to be Multi-Instanceable(MUI), while in GUI, some spells can not be made MUI.

Do you have any idea of what your talking about?

Your maps' scripting sucks.

I guess we'd have to start somewhere.

FTW.

What happens when you get 100 Syntax errors and you still haven't got any idea where you went wrong? That's 100 "retarded" errors.

JASS is better for the extreme mapmaker
GUI will do for the rest.

Both of them are effective. Both of them work.

What happens when you get 100 Syntax errors and you still haven't got any idea where you went wrong? That's 100 "retarded" errors.

Who is the idiot that got 100 syntax errors?

JASS is better for the extreme mapmaker
GUI will do for the rest.

.....

 

[Avator]

Programming is basically pure logic.

Yea, but you need to know the coding first...

Fair point, but I'd personally rather ask a highly experienced person than some random guy.

My point here is that you might have made an infinite loop (e.g. 'Unit enters region', 'Create unit in the same region') that people who don't know anything can see that too and point you to it. You don't rely on such people, but they can be helpful.

Only because you don't know what you're missing out on or what workarounds you have to do until you see the easier way.

You'll see what I mean when you check out the map. You can already notice it by just playing, but if you want more info, just check the triggers.

Fair point. However, Jass, as I demonstrated, is also simple understandable English.

Yes, but those were some easy stuff. Remember when I was told to use the 'exitwhen' command? They thought it wouldn't quit the loop, but that's exactly what it did. Even experienced JASSers thought they knew it, but didn't because it's probably not a very common script and the name mislead them. JASS isn't a walk in the park, while GUI tells you just what you need to know and even comes with extra info in case this is necessary.

Jass can be done the same way with a program such as JassCraft.

Never heared of that. Why isn't there more attention on THW for such a program then? Wouldn't that convince people to use JASS more and giving higher quality maps instead of having the Maps Section spammed with crappy uploads?

That's a bad thing, as it makes the user make horrible mistakes. When you get 'good' with GUI, it's because you've actually learned how to use it - it isn't any easier than learning how to use Jass, you just don't notice it because you don't think of it that way.

There's no learning curve in GUI at all. I started out map-making after only playing Wc3 and I turned out just fine, because I could speak English and just searched for what I needed. There's really nothing more you have to do!

You'd have to use it to understand why this is actually an advantage.

Well I'm not going to put effort in that since I think I've given plenty of points not to use JASS.

Thus preventing users from completely destroying themselves. Besides, you can start doing simple stuff in an hour or two.

First of all: People destroying themselves? WTH!?
And second of all: Why on earth would I spend 2 hours learning a scripting language to only learn a few simple stuff, while I could use that same time to make something in GUI that 10 times better?

But the option of using them is comforting and often saves a lot of time.

It's comforting to know that you've got access to a big dosis of useless info? That's like "Hi, I can push a screwdriver up my nose". It's fun to know, but nobody will ever be interested in it...

Be my guest, but please don't mislead other people.

Mislead people? Excuse me, but do you say I mislead people because I've posted my opinion and gave several very good motivations for that opinion that even you marked as a "fair point"? That's not what misleading means, you know.

 

[HINDYhat]

Yea, but you need to know the coding first...

Isn't it so hard to search using the function list. Oh and the programmng structure is SO complicated!

function //etc...
endfunction

You don't rely on such people, but they can be helpful.

I'd rather rely on reliable people.

Even experienced JASSers thought they knew it, but didn't because it's probably not a very common script and the name mislead them. JASS isn't a walk in the park, while GUI tells you just what you need to know and even comes with extra info in case this is necessary.

Well then those 'experienced' Jassers weren't experienced enough. Here's a quote from Vexorian I believe (paraphrased):
Jass is like taking a walk up the mountain,
GUI is like taking the catapult

Never heared of that. Why isn't there more attention on THW for such a program then? Wouldn't that convince people to use JASS more and giving higher quality maps instead of having the Maps Section spammed with crappy uploads?

There's actually a more useful program called JassNewGenPack and it integrates a function list, syntax highliter and tons more stuff right into the map editor. It's really nice and is pretty much a necessity now when Jassing (JassCraft is rendered obsolete with this). Why don't people know about it? Because they think GUI is so much better than Jass and don't want to learn...?

You've discouraged me and I don't even feel like reading the rest of your post.

 

[MeKC]

Yes Jass is more powerfull. For example, you can't create trackables with GUI.

I started with GUI, and that helped me learning Jass, because then I knew nearly all the functions warcraft have.

When Im writte in Jass, and forget a functions name, I go find it in
the GUI list, and convert it to Jass. Then I find the name of the function.

 

[Avator]

All that trouble just to make it more complicated for yourself...

@HINDYhat: I facepalmed at your second quote (OMG)
Also by mentioning JNGP, you've lost all my interest. Can't believe I have to post this twice a day, but THW is stuffed with threads which had a problem caused by either WEU or JNGP. I'm not going to use either of those if I already know it's going to cause me issues and irritation.

PS: I've never discouraged anyone before by typing a post. Hurray for my capabilities!
*applauds*

 

[TriggerHappy]

but THW is stuffed with threads which had a problem caused by either WEU or JNGP

Just because people blame their crashes on JNGP doesn't mean it's JNGP's fault.

It can't be help accountable for noobs.

WEU however is outdated.

 

[Avator]

Dude, stop blaming noobs and read the question better before commenting it.
The solution posted by others was that JNGP caused it. And the problems disappeared all of the sudden when it wasn't used anymore. Or is that marked as shear luck?

 

[MeKC]

Actually JNGP make it more easyer to make maps. I havent seen any threads or had any problem myself that is cause by JNGP.

It make it more easyer to write jass. It replace the ugly normal font, and
add color so its easyer to read.

Also it have a function list like GUI. And it automatic pop up when you write to letters. The you just need to press enter, and it write the whole function for.

So its faster to write jass now than pick GUI.

 

[HINDYhat]

@HINDYhat: I facepalmed at your second quote

What, you rely on unreliable people? Ahhh okay now I understand why you're talking such random nonsense!

Yeah I haven't seen a lot of JNGP bugs... there were a few when Blizzard made the newest patch but that's been fixed since a long time. Stop saying random stuff pl0x.

 

[killer1390]

In my opinion, GUI is amazing. No it is not as good as JASS, but code just isn't for some people. If you are not going to be a programmer and you are not going to make maps like Dota(I hate this map, I am just refering to it's wonderful use of triggers) then you don't really have a motive to learn JASS. Now if you are going to be a programmer(That's me!) then learn JASS as quickly as possible, it will help you learn things.

Now, when people say JASS is faster to use then GUI, that completely depends on who you are! If you aren't fast at typing, then GUI is much better for speed.

JASS's only big advantage is the fact that it has a lot more functionality.

PS: GUI can also teach you the basics of programming but if you wan't to learn programming, get to JASS as fast as possible. Also, if there were programs that you can make 3d games with a system like GUI, then there would be a lot more games out there. Anywho, most of my reasons I like GUI are because of reasons that are outside of warcraft!

 

[PurplePoot]

Never heared of that. Why isn't there more attention on THW for such a program then? Wouldn't that convince people to use JASS more and giving higher quality maps instead of having the Maps Section spammed with crappy uploads?

Because people don't ask, nor go looking.

There's no learning curve in GUI at all. I started out map-making after only playing Wc3 and I turned out just fine, because I could speak English and just searched for what I needed. There's really nothing more you have to do!

Hence why while Jass is the long, hard walk up the mountain, GUI is the catapult. When you don't know what you're doing, you cause bugs from hell (ever heard of leaks, for example?).

Well I'm not going to put effort in that since I think I've given plenty of points not to use JASS.

But no good ones. If you don't care, just say you don't care, but don't try to back it up with insubstantial responses.

First of all: People destroying themselves? WTH!?

The number of new users in GUI that blow things up because they have no idea what they are doing is... large.

And second of all: Why on earth would I spend 2 hours learning a scripting language to only learn a few simple stuff, while I could use that same time to make something in GUI that 10 times better?

Because if you save 50% of the coding time of everything from then on, based on your conservation of time philosophy you save a hell of a lot of time.

It's comforting to know that you've got access to a big dosis of useless info? That's like "Hi, I can push a screwdriver up my nose". It's fun to know, but nobody will ever be interested in it...

Useless? If it was useless it wouldn't exist.

Mislead people? Excuse me, but do you say I mislead people because I've posted my opinion and gave several very good motivations for that opinion that even you marked as a "fair point"? That's not what misleading means, you know.

Giving your opinion as if it is a fact, when you know nothing about the field you are criticizing, is misleading people.

Also by mentioning JNGP, you've lost all my interest. Can't believe I have to post this twice a day, but THW is stuffed with threads which had a problem caused by either WEU or JNGP. I'm not going to use either of those if I already know it's going to cause me issues and irritation.

WeU? Yes, but no one uses it for Jass anyways. JNGP? Cite a thread. I've used it since January 2007 and have only once encountered a bug; it was a flaw with vJass and Vexorian fixed it within a day or two.