Draenor

[Fussiler1]

You know, Blizz' could make a new faction of the Outlandish Human Fortresses.

 

[AIagremm]

They have. Its called Sons of Lothar - the remains of the Alliance Expedition.

 

[Fussiler1]

I meant larger then that. More like a whole country.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah me too. I would call them... Sons of Lothar. Or Allaince of Draenor. Or Allaince Expedition.

However it would fit better if Draenor wasnt destroyed.

 

[VeljkoM]

How can an army or more like a task force create a whole nation? They would need one very important thing. Women! There was only one woman in whole expedition and she is lost.

 

[AIagremm]

She was not alone! I think...

 

[Fussiler1]

Elven Rangers.

 

[VeljkoM]

They were guys in warcraft 2. But still elves "reproduce" rather slow since they are long living. The longer something lives it reproduces slower.

 

[AIagremm]

There were woman in the Expedition. Even the dwarven ones.
Perhaps the members of the Expedition have thought about the chanse of them getting stuck in Draenor.

 

[VeljkoM]

Really what army brings women with them? They were task force sent to stop new orc invasion.

 

[Misha]

uh oh.. now we're goin' into weird... change subject slightly..

 

[Fussiler1]

Women are needed in an army.

Who else helps with setting up the tents, who else cooks the dinner, who else washes the clothes, who else entertaints the soldiers?

 

[AIagremm]

o_o'

 

[Fussiler1]

GIRLPOWAH!!

 

[AIagremm]

Woman are often most skilled crafters and food gatherers in Azeroth.
Since the Expedition took a lot of peasants and civilians with them, to create food sources, or because they thought about the variant of getting stuck on Draenor. This means they took a lot of weman with them.

 

[VeljkoM]

Actually all that you mentioned up there in the army isn't done by women since in medieval ages they were consider week and distraction for soldiers. Setting up tents was done by soldiers them selves and they were expected to take care of their equipment , coking was done by army cooks who were trained to cook only food that can't get stale in long period. Washing cloths wasn't always an option and soldiers tend to not wash for days or even weeks. Hygiene then wasn't popular as it is today (in fact hygiene become important very much later).

As for expedition they were sent to take back book of Medivh and find the way to destroy rift and I doubt that they would find many wiling recruits if getting stuck there was an idea. Most of the forces were in Hellfire Peninsula guarding the portal wile others were chasing Ner'Zhul.

 

[VeljkoM]

Expedition was so small that they even accepted assistance of Laughing Skull clan. In the end when portal started to collapse both human and orcs rushed to escape Dreanor leaving even smaller fragment of Expedition. We should consider that that fragment was reduced more by destruction of Dreanor and also that some of them escaped trough many new opened portals. Kadghar at the end of campaign even calls you to take refuge in one of the portals which looks like led to some Naaru. In simple words there wasn't left many to create new nation.

 

[AIagremm]

Yes, but could you please say more about that Naaru portal thingy?

 

[VeljkoM]

Well I somehow Khadgar managed to make friends with naaru called A'dal. It is confusing since at the end of Warcraft 2 Beyond the Dark portal Khadgar and his men go through some portal and latter he is found in Shattrath City as advisor to naaru. My guess is that A'dal saved them somehow and teleported them to safety.

 

[AIagremm]

Actually they just remained in Draenor.
He has summoned A'dal when he was sending his mind to venture through the Twisting Nether, thought it would be cool if something like this happened:
Khadgar and the others entered a portal and got stuck in the Nether as Ner'zhul. But unlike him they met not the demons, but naaru. They returned with them to Draenor to save it from the Legion, and have sent Turalyon, Alleria and a part of Expedition somewhere far, where they could do something related to forming the Army of Light, like preparing a world to become the citadel of Light's forces, or fight some demons somewhere.

 

[VeljkoM]

As the flames die to embers and the arcane energies that once bound two worlds slowly fade, the Dark Portal crumbles into dust as its powers subside and dissolve. The finality of what has been done here becomes manifest. The moment is shattered as volcanoes erupt in fiery fury as the earth begins to shake beneath your feet. The world of Draenor is dying... Khadgar motions toward the remaining rifts created by Ner'zhul and beckons you to follow him. The warriors of Azeroth under your command gaze upon the rifts with uncertainty - but to remain would be suicide. Knowing that their beloved Azeroth is safe from harm, they gather up weapons and wounded companions alike as you lead them into the swirling, unknown reaches of the Twisting Nether.

This what happen in warcraft 2.

 

[Fussiler1]

Source?

 

[VeljkoM]

Warcraft 2 Beyond Dark portal of course. If you want I'll show you the game cinematic.

 

[Misha]

Show it ASAP

 

[AIagremm]

Dimensional Gateways! O.O

 

[VeljkoM]

There were multiple gate ways not just one. Also rewind forward to see the important stuff.

 

[AIagremm]

Watched it all. Wow.
And I know there were many.

It is impressive, however I would prefer Draenor not destroyed, or at least a new world where Alliance Expedition fled would be shown.

 

[VeljkoM]

Only god knows. They were lucky to survive unlike trolls and goblins.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah. I actually was thinkg about them the last few days.
If the Draenor hasnt exploded, the trolls would most likely escape in the panic, and hide in Zangarmarsh. Goblins would settle on a hidden shore, in small numbers.
Some would remain in the Horde, but most would leave on the shores, with the turtles who would mostly become wild, with planes of one day escaping on some island, making a mine in which they would settle, and becoming neutral(which they have).

 

[VeljkoM]

And the dragon orcs brought with them? I think that Laughing skull clan would rally them all to form a new horde. They would also ignore alliance for some time since they would achieve new horde that with their help.

 

[AIagremm]

Red dragons would slowly die out. They will be used as mounts for powerful orcs.
Laughing Skull clan, would remain neutral I think. However they would keep ties with Alliance. But the idea about them forming the New Horde, that isnt like the old one, but more like Thrall's Horde.

 

[VeljkoM]

That would be hard considering that Laughing skull is very treacherous and can't be trusted. In time corruption would slowly fade because Legion would never claim Dreanor because of the portals would never reach Twisted Nether. Orcs would mostly fight each other by then. Alliance would probably stay aside trying to survive.

 

[AIagremm]

Well, I think it would be like this:
Some of the clans, without guidance, confused and misoriented, returned to their shamanistic traditions, and formed the Orcish Clans(Positive neutral to Alliance), they would try to destroy the corruption, and redeem their brothers.
However some of the clans, would continue to remain bloodfirsty Horde. Like the Blackrock clan on Azeroth, they continued the demon worshipping. Though the Hellfire citadel is destroyed, its ruins are full of orcs, and sometimes they try to retake the citadel, on the once again lush green grasslands.
One of their goals is too open Nerzhul's portals to summon demon masters. However other races, cannot let that happen, because if a portal will open, it will rip the world apart - the fabric of time and space was damaged by Nerzhul's spellwork, so they protect the gates at all costs.
Laughing Skull clan would remain neutral to clans, and hostile neutral to the Horde.

 

[VeljkoM]

laughing Skull clan reason for helping humans is to gain more reputation so they could have control over the north clans. They wouldn't remain neutral until they rule the horde. Shame is that horde on Azeroth had Frost wolves that followed old ways so there was someone to show orcs the old ways. Dreanor however didn't have clan like that so they would mostly grow tired like orcs from the camps did before Thrall showed them the way. Mostly their future would be very bloody.

 

[AIagremm]

Indeed. Shamans would make it much easier.
There is only the mag'har clan - mixed clan concisting mostly of Frostwolves, that can be like Frostwolves in Draenor. And even I think that they should be green - just not as green as others. They would have to return to their natural skin color really slowly, a few hundred years to become brown again, I think.

Also, do you think there would be a small number of fel orcs, who are kind of the most elite warriors of the Horde, really few of them, and sometimes they even rule some clans.

 

[VeljkoM]

There weren't shit orcs then. They were created in WoW universe not in warcraft. Fel orcs also didn't exist since demons were needed to create them and if dreanor wasn't destroyed Magtheridon wouldn't never came.... I don't care what anyone says shit color isn't original color for orcs. Not even wow players approve it and many would like that they were never discovered.

 

[AIagremm]

Perhaps, the green orcs really are more classic. However green ones with a tint of brown!! >

 

[VeljkoM]

Let me enlighten you with history of the orcs through Warcraft....

First seeing of the orcs was in Warcraft 1 when they came from Red Planet. They were green then and also full of blood-lust and they used dark magic. They were portraided as evil which made them popular. No mentioning of corruption.

Then came warcraft 2. Orcs are green but there were mentioning of corruption. No color change was ever said. Orcs remained evil and berserk.

Warcraft 3 made orcs look less appealing. They lost all that made them cool. That is until chaos orcs appeared (Taurens also raised the interest). They were green and red but green was original color.

Then came WoW. Orcs were once more allowed to use warlock magic and have shown to be more barbaric then Alliance. Green was original color even then.

 

[AIagremm]

Well, yes green is original color, it fits well.

Evil orcs were very popular back then, not now.

In WCII it became better + the orcs were green, but later were corrupted.

WCIII made orcs even better - now not only corrupted, but also shamanistic orcs appeared.

WoW... messed up a lot of things, not only orcs. I guess the orcs really should be green, however brown is original.

 

[VeljkoM]

Then came Burning crusade which burned Warcraft lore completely bringing many changes which couldn't nor shouldn't happen. Shit orcs were introduced as until then not mentioned at all original orcs. This brought great displeasure to warcraft and wow players.

But to make it even more degrading leader of them was Groms own son...Garosh made such impact that it is hard to believe. He wasn't in the horde longer even then most WoW players and yet he got so great position and even dares to insult the icons of the horde. How can shit orc claim the title of warchief of the horde when he wasn't part of the horde for so long? How can green orcs, island trolls, taurens and even forsaken and blood elves (not to mention others) follow a shit orc they never have seen or heard?

 

[VeljkoM]

Wc3 didn't make orcs better for all. Many miss the ogre, trolls and goblins and good gameplay. It was to much focused on smaller armies and heroes. And actually you would be surprised how many bad orcs are popular. In wow horde is more evil then alliance since alliance follow light and horde has undead and blood elves as allies. Orcs are getting more evil again. Garosh is a living proof.

 

[AIagremm]

Seriously, Garrosh bugs me, he's crazy, mad and stupid!
I dont understand how Thrall, even with respect to Grom, didnt kick him out of the Horde? However it would cause some problems, and even could result the creation of a renegade Horde. And it seems that in the Cataclysm, Garrosh will do something bad to Thrall... and I always respect Thrall, and think he makes a wise desicion... except the exception of the forsaken and the blood elves in the Horde, but even I dont think that its real lore.

 

[AIagremm]

And yes, the variety of races was cool.
In WCIII Allaince had 3 races, and Horde had orcs and two new races, which were kinda cool, but the loosing of ogres and forest trolls was bad.

 

[VeljkoM]

Well he could send Garosh to be Thralls hand in Out land. Why the heck would Graosh even care about Azeroth? Also rumor is that Garosh will be warchief of the Horde.

Accepting blood elves and undead is so badly justified. They basically said "orcs are stupid but don't trust nobody"

Wc3 has 100 food limit (not to mention that everything has high food cost) which is drag since both Warcraft games and starcraft had 200. I bet if warcraft 2 had same engine as warcraft 3 it would be more played. It was just more awesome.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah, the food limits and other food stuff in WCIII is really bugging me.
Making an epic battle is almost impossible! And yes, I would send Garrosh to Outland, where he belongs. And doesnt bug anybody.

And yes, I too have heard about him becoming the Warchief. Im worried about Thrall. I heard some crazy people saying that he will become new Guardian of Tiristfal.

 

[VeljkoM]

I still think wow and warcraft should be separated like it was done to Command & Conquer games.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah, I share you opinion. Though some of the lore in WoW is quite good, and can be used in WCIV, most of it is just crazy!

 

[VeljkoM]

I do like some but it isn't good for RTS game. How did they explain that almost every race can be warlock when demon worshiping is bad? I mean how can horde allow it?

 

[AIagremm]

Its just for game balance. Humans would burn that inn in which there is a secret warlock place, and Thrall would personally rip the heads of the warlocks in Orgrimmar.

 

[Fussiler1]

Thrall is stupid since he failed to notice that there is a whole warlock section in Orgrimmar.