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Covid-19 vaccination

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deepstrasz

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Look into the Great Barrington Declaration, you'll see there are plenty of scientists who disagree with the narrative you hear on tv.
There are counter arguments too:
If you really want truth, how about you start by proving the virus actually exists.
Don't look up?


HOT TAKE:
Political advertising!?
 
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There are counter arguments too:
The point is that there are plenty of experts who have a different view, you just never see them on tv.
There are also plenty of counter arguments to the current strategy, some of which I've been trying to explain in earlier posts.

Keep in mind: Facebook admits the truth: ‘Fact checks’ are really just (lefty) opinion

The "fact" check about the danish study admits that the VE is negative, it only says there is POSSIBLY a different cause than the vaccines. One of the possible causes mentioned is that unvaccinated people are more likely to avoid infection risk because they are 'unprotected', which is clearly argued from the mind of a vaccinated individual, since by now everyone has had the opportunity to get vaccinated, so the unvaccinated clearly don't care about this 'protection' and it should not affect their behaviour. The only thing I can think of that might affect their behaviour is that there's a covid pass, but you can still get it with proof of recovery or a recent negative test.

The other "fact" check doesn't seem to be providing any proof either, just speculation. Of course, the claim itself also has no proof supporting it, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. Either way I never made this claim so I won't bother defending it more than that.
 

deepstrasz

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From a friend:
"These results are strange indeed.

The fact that this time period is so short, and that delta was still so dominant during this period, makes these results very difficult to interpret given the competition between delta and omicron.

Given the already well documented immune escape properties of omicron vs. vaccination, previous infection and monoclonal antibodies, yet the strong transmission advantages of delta, it is possible (likely?) that infections from those with immune protection are predominantly omicron, but for those without immune protection it is predominantly delta. This effect could strongly reduce omicron specific infection rates in unvaccinated and have a strong effect on VE estimates.

Too bad they removed previously infected from these data and didn't consider them a stratified cohort. If this competition effect was a major factor here, then one would also expect the cases among previously infections would also be dominated by omicron, and previous infection would also be deemed to have "negative effectiveness" vs. omicron. These data would give us an idea of whether the negative effect is a component of vaccination or an artifact of this competition effect.

If omicron eventually dominates and delta disappears, then this competition effect would disappear and we'd have a clearer sense of VE of vaccines vs. omicron outside of this competition effect.

But there is also a chance that delta has an inherent transmission advantage that will cause it to remain dominant in unvaccinated while omicron's immune escape makes it dominate among vaccinated and previously infected.

In that case we might see delta and omicron coexist in some sense.

We will have to watch these data unfold in the coming weeks and months."
 

deepstrasz

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Wrda

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Can we all just agree that this whole pandemic would have not happened if the governments of all countries hadn't been slacking, sitting on their sofa and playing cards with each other? They didn't take the virus from China seriously. Also China is to blame for not being able to contain the virus in the country, they were able to do this on a far worse virus than the current one, the virus from 2003~2005
 
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deepstrasz

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Wrda

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Day 21254625 my mind still cannot fathom how people believe that they are getting life saving vaccine, which in reality is pure bio-weapon designed to harm. I personally have no idea how is the propaganda in your countries guys, but from what they declare and what i see, it seems much stronger than the one in my country which fell apart long ago. For 12 years my country was ruled by very tyrranical prime minister who would basicly tax every big business here, asking for a montly payment from the business's owner, if the big businessman disagreed, our prime-minister would use police or the prosecutors to destroy him, for that tyranny alot of people like me didnt know untill 2020. We all knew he is corrupted, but not to that extent. For some reason the media would hide all of his tyranny and in fact present him like god. So basicly we had prime-minister who owned half of our country while controlling the most important parts - media, police and prosecutors, anyone who would oppose him would be smashed in the shadows. Well that was up untill 2020, where people would start protesting, on top of all of that the so called covid fraud erupted. At that point, each one of us knew that our prime minister is omega corrupted and he shouldnt be trusted at all. So one night he suddenly goes online on our most corrupted popular media with the most corrupted doctor in our country saying - "there will be alot of corpses because of a deadly virus, prepare! Lockdown is incoming". People in my country at that point knew that nothing of that is true because its our prime-minister saying his lies once again on his favourite media. So people would protest more and more but he wouldnt give up and would still wouldnt resign. 3 Months of nonstop protesting against his tyrranical rule. He still wouldnt resign and there comes a day where he comes again online on his favourite media with the most corrupted doctor saying - "the light has come! our salvation is here! Everyone should get vaccinated as soon as possible in order to stop the virus". All of that happening while people protesting outside healthy and vigor. Only the most brainwashed people living in fear would believe our corrupted prime minister. Most of our population knew that since its our prime minister vouching for vaccination, there is something terribly
wrong with that:) The narrative of the covid fraud here fell long ago, in 2020.
Ah one of the oldest fallacies in the book, ad hominem guilt by association.
By the way, what does "covid fraud" mean? That the virus and the pandemic doesn't exist? I'll assume that meanwhile.
I don't know if you realise that this mentally is exactly the same as flat earthers. They refuse to believe science, misunderstand several laws of it, make nonsense claims while not providing irrefutable evidence, and think that the consensus is wrong, which is the overwhelming majority, but some ignorant fools are right.
Yes they control our most popular media but we have 3 free tv medias that are showing the other point of view.
And what is this other point of view? Hmmm, very vague.
You guys will slowly see the truth, its already coming. They are all slowly shifting the narrative by saying that omicron is the last variant to come and that anyone who had 2 doses is without immune system. What a coincidence xD
I would like to meet this "they are all".
How can "by saying that omicron is the last variant to come" co-exist with "covid fraud"? Isn't that just a contradiction?
Check on 5G aswell. I am not here to fight, nor here to argue with anyone, im not here to prove facts nor to show undisputable information. Honestly at this point, i am truly truly feeling sorry for anyone still believing in this bioweapon and those who've had it.

Day 292492492 i still try to show people the truth yet they still deny the undeniable.
I'm truly sorry for your suffering in these delusions too.
Day 292492492 is roughly 823922 years, so I'll pass.
According to you a lot of people haven't apparently died from covid, they have been sent underground and been living there since then, and all scientists, virologists and people were all bought to create "something evil" for pointless reasons.
 

Dr Super Good

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Also China is to blame for not being able to contain the virus in the country, they were able to do this on a far worse virus than the current one, the virus from 2003~2005
No country has been able to contain it, so you cannot blame individual countries.
Day 21254625 my mind still cannot fathom how people believe that they are getting life saving vaccine
I have had 3 doses, of which my booster was a difference vaccine. I am perfectly fine. The only weapon these vaccines are is one for humans to use against Covid.
 

Wrda

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No country has been able to contain it, so you cannot blame individual countries.
I know, and I agree, that's why I also said this:
this whole pandemic would have not happened if the governments of all countries hadn't been slacking, sitting on their sofa and playing cards with each other
That being said, I don't think we can do anything else other than wait and have the same precautions till june~july.
 

deepstrasz

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@Dreamshock religion and philosophical movements have been used as ideologies to do harm throughout history. Humans are very mischievous creatures. But science, if done properly, does not lie.

@Drake53 Malone has been proven to be wrong. There are no studies to show ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine to be better or less harmful than the vaccine or newer antivirals.
 

deepstrasz

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Lack of evidence for X does not imply X is false. Are there studies that show ivermectin is worse or more harmful?
Few to no one does studies on this because it's not worth it as many effects of the substance(s) are known not to be worth the trials.
About what? And where's the proof?
to link a few.
 
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Few to no one does studies on this because it's not worth it as many effects of the substance(s) are known not to be worth the trials.
Right, it's not worth it because ivermectin is cheap so big pharma can't make huge profits, instead pfizer would rather invent a new medicine.

Claim: "COVID-19 vaccines are not working"
The article tries to counter this claim by stating "The vaccines have prevented serious illness and death for millions". Where's the evidence for this? Oh right, it's the "COVID-19 death rate" graph. I have mentioned in earlier posts that this type of graph is misleading, but let me repeat it here: 1) the graph is for all ages so it does not accurately show the risk of your own age group, 2) usually in these type of graphs if you have had your last vaccine less than 2 weeks ago you still count as 'unvaccinated', though here it appears these cases are simply excluded (I wonder why they couldn't at least show a separate line for this hmmmm), and 3) this graph does not show deaths caused BY vaccines, to make a fair comparison you need an ALL-CAUSE death rate graph.

Claim: "COVID-19 vaccines cause infertility"
The counterclaim for this ultimately leads to SARS-CoV-2 spike protein seropositivity from vaccination or infection does not cause sterility - PubMed
I think it's important to consider that there are multiple ways to interpret infertility, the publication talks about sterility, but when I see talk about infertility in relation to the vaccines it usually seems to be about disrupted menstruation cycles or miscarriages: Explosive Rise in Ontario Stillbirths Triggers Parliamentary Questions, Denials From Government

Claim: "vaccine makers are protected legally while families are not"
I don't really see a counter argument for this apart from the "lol actually you CAN sue them IF you can prove the damage was caused by the vaccine AND the vaccine manufacturer has engaged in WILLFUL misconduct" yeah... good luck proving that. Have you seen any stories about families being compensated? Me neither.

Not checking this site since I get insecure connection warning but from the url I assume it's the same claim as the last one from the previous link, which I already addressed.

Claim: "Spike proteins from mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are toxic"
Again, "there's no evidence", imagine arguing with a religious person that god doesn't exist and this is the only argument you can come up with.
It's funny, they also keep saying the claims they're trying to counter are misleading, but the only argument they seem to have that the spike proteins are safe is that supposedly the vaccines itself are not harmful, a conclusion they probably made based on the misleading COVID-19 death rates.

Claim: "Spike proteins often cause permanent damage in children's critical organs"
All I see here is nitpicking that it's "temporary" instead of permanent (do we have long-term studies to really know this for sure though?), and that the "rare" (which is also less rare than they want to admit, see one of my earlier posts for this) side effects may be caused by the immune response instead of the spike proteins itself.

Claim: "There is no benefit to vaccinating children against COVID-19"
"The vaccine is safe and effective (for children)" I'm so tired of reading this propaganda over and over, where is the proof to support this, I certainly don't see it in this article. Yes they mention children get hospitalized and maybe even die, but could the vaccine really have prevented that (is it effective?) and are the side effect risks (is it safe?) outweighted by the benefits?

'Misleading and frankly dangerous'
Hypocrisy, I already pointed out how these 'fact-checkers' are the misleading ones, and the real dangerous thing is how claims like Malone's are reacted to, there's no place anymore for a different point of view or a discussion.
 
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If any of you believe Ivermectin will demonstrate efficacy in humans (at safe doses), I'd love to take you up on a bet. As much as you're willing to give me, of course.
 

deepstrasz

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If any of you believe Ivermectin will demonstrate efficacy in humans (at safe doses), I'd love to take you up on a bet. As much as you're willing to give me, of course.
:xxd:
 
:xxd:
The studies were non-clinical, hydroxychloroquine also showed the potential to treat COVID in non-clinical trials but when used in clinical trials "failed to show benefit for COVID-19 patients". As such until the Oxford study comes out I would be hesitant to use this as proof of the claim of Ivermectin being a treatment. Also I don't know if the University of Oxford study is clinical trials or not.
 

deepstrasz

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I just got my first Phizer vaccine shot last week and I was sleeping all week. Got the 2nd shot scheduled for the 21s. In case you did not already know Covid sucks! :)
 

deepstrasz

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deepstrasz

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Ah so the vaccines only weaken the immune system against COVID-19 and not any other virus, and only HIV can cause real AIDS. Thanks for clearing that up fact-checkers, you're always so reliable.

By the way, have you seen this yet? Bill Gates says Omicron 'sadly spreads immunity faster than vaccines
I wonder what he means with "sadly". You'd think natural immunity spreading is a good thing, especially when it also produces long-term B-cell and T-cell immunity, unlike the vaccines causing you to require a booster every couple of months.
 
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Vaccines cause AIDS.
Ever feel there may have been some colloquial middle ground to plant your flag in somewhere between "These people on the other side don't have convincingly strong arguments to warrant a global lockdown," and "THEY ARE SO ANNOYING I BET IT FUCKING CAUSES AIDS?"

Asking for a friend.
 

deepstrasz

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Ah so the vaccines only weaken the immune system against COVID-19 and not any other virus, and only HIV can cause real AIDS. Thanks for clearing that up fact-checkers, you're always so reliable.
Yes, because immune cells are not general acting cells. They are created depending on what the immune system comes in contact with. Immune cells ready to combat coronaviruses don't have a proper effect on other pathogens.

About Gates, he might have improperly said that he was hoping that the vaccines would have been more effective (human science ego).
 
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Ever feel there may have been some colloquial middle ground to plant your flag in somewhere between "These people on the other side don't have convincingly strong arguments to warrant a global lockdown," and "THEY ARE SO ANNOYING I BET IT FUCKING CAUSES AIDS?"

Asking for a friend.
You don't have to make it look like I literally said that, I was just linking to an article about it and asking questions.

I'm actually more of a "I'm worried about my friends, families, and coworkers who got vaccinated, and I want those responsible for this madness to be held accountable".
 
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Sad so many people still die from Covid every day... And that China is approaching a month of lockdown in prime manufacturing areas...
I understand. I also have covid. but I got lucky. mild form of the disease. My ears started hurting because of Covid. I thought I would die in pain. Walked lik a zombie after being sick
 
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The first time in this entire "pandemic", that I was diagnosed with covid, was a few weeks back. A sore throat, runny nose and some cough... It passed in a couple of days, before my official quarantine... Sat in quarantine for 1,5 weeks, while being perfectly healthy...

I mean, I had a common cold a few months back. Even that managed to produce a slight fewer (37,5 C). This didn't.

No antibiotics, no vaccines, no medication of any kind.
 

Wrda

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The first time in this entire "pandemic", that I was diagnosed with covid, was a few weeks back. A sore throat, runny nose and some cough... It passed in a couple of days, before my official quarantine... Sat in quarantine for 1,5 weeks, while being perfectly healthy...

I mean, I had a common cold a few months back. Even that managed to produce a slight fewer (37,5 C). This didn't.

No antibiotics, no vaccines, no medication of any kind.
That's good for you, but what is your point? You don't know if by catching covid it caused you some hidden damage, which might not be felt at moment, but will be when you're older. Vaccines were never meant to grant you the ability to not get infected, they simply reduce the risk of death, make immune system respond faster, giving more resistance.
There are people who have taken vaccines and were always perfectly healthy.
There are people who have taken vaccines and were always unhealthy.
There are people who have never taken vaccines and were always perfectly healthy.
There are people who have never taken vaccines and were always unhealthy.
Yet vaccines have protected more lives instead of failing to do so.
 
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You don't know if by getting vaccinated it caused you some hidden damage, which might not be felt at moment, but will be when you're older.
FTFY

Yet vaccines have protected more lives instead of failing to do so.
Yet covid measures like lockdowns caused way more harm so we would've been better off if we just lived our lives normally like we're starting to do now again.

Anyways since thecovidworld.com has gone offline this must mean covid is now officially over!
Every time I still see someone wearing those stupid diapers on their face I cringe, but also feel sorry for these fools who still live in fear. Fear equals stress, which is NOT HEALTHY for you!
I'm still sceptical though because politicians keep extending the laws that make these measures possible.
 
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That's good for you, but what is your point?
People are apparently sharing their experiences with the disease. I just did the same. Plus, all this fearmongering rubs me the wrong way.

You don't know if by catching covid it caused you some hidden damage, which might not be felt at moment, but will be when you're older.
There may have been some momentary damage done, like with most diseases. But human body has a fantastic ability to heal itself. Besides... There may be so many other things, that will affect my health when I am older. I'll worry about it when I get there.

Vaccines were never meant to grant you the ability to not get infected, they simply reduce the risk of death, make immune system respond faster, giving more resistance.
And the same resistance (better, according to studies) can be attained naturally, by getting through with this disease.

There are people who have taken vaccines and were always perfectly healthy.
There are people who have taken vaccines and were always unhealthy.
There are people who have never taken vaccines and were always perfectly healthy.
There are people who have never taken vaccines and were always unhealthy.
Yet vaccines have protected more lives instead of failing to do so.
Alright.
But at the same time, forcing the vaccines on people is wrong. There should ALWAYS be a freedom of choice. I've no problem with the people, who take the vaccine. That's their choice. But I also have made my choice. And I shouldn't be discriminated or persecuted for it.
 

Dr Super Good

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But at the same time, forcing the vaccines on people is wrong. There should ALWAYS be a freedom of choice. I've no problem with the people, who take the vaccine. That's their choice. But I also have made my choice. And I shouldn't be discriminated or persecuted for it.
Should it be a choice though? The issue is that by not getting vaccinated the people are not just putting themselves at risk, which is their right, but also others, which is not their right. Here are just a few examples of how not being vaccinated could negatively impact others around such a person.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated they remained transmissible for 1 day longer when they caught Covid. During that additional day they spread it to 2 additional people, one of which was also not vaccinated and dies from it.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated they became seriously ill from Covid and required hospitalisation. Although they recovered they required several days of intensive care. During the time they were in intensive care there was a major road traffic incident which required many people receive intensive care. However not everyone who needed it could receive intensive care due to being short 1 bed due to it being occupied by the person with Covid. As such 1 person dies due to being unable to receive the medical attention they urgently required due to hospital resources being stretched further.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated their immune system did not respond quickly or strong enough to a Covid infection. This allowed the Covid strain inside them to mutate/evolve to become more deadly, virulent and less affected by the current vaccinations. Although the person did not die they did give this new strain to another person while they were still transmissible. The result is thousands more people die due to a new Covid strain.
As such it is not as clear cut as being a personal choice. There is a much bigger picture involved that affects everyone.
 
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Should it be a choice though? The issue is that by not getting vaccinated the people are not just putting themselves at risk, which is their right, but also others, which is not their right.
Can you stop with this bullshit narrative that people are selfish for refusing the vaccine? You're not putting others at risk. The vaccine is a placebo at best and poison at worst. The real selfish ones are people like you who want to force the vaccines on everyone so they can feel safe.
 
Should it be a choice though? The issue is that by not getting vaccinated the people are not just putting themselves at risk, which is their right, but also others, which is not their right. Here are just a few examples of how not being vaccinated could negatively impact others around such a person.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated they remained transmissible for 1 day longer when they caught Covid. During that additional day they spread it to 2 additional people, one of which was also not vaccinated and dies from it.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated they became seriously ill from Covid and required hospitalisation. Although they recovered they required several days of intensive care. During the time they were in intensive care there was a major road traffic incident which required many people receive intensive care. However not everyone who needed it could receive intensive care due to being short 1 bed due to it being occupied by the person with Covid. As such 1 person dies due to being unable to receive the medical attention they urgently required due to hospital resources being stretched further.
  • Because a person was not vaccinated their immune system did not respond quickly or strong enough to a Covid infection. This allowed the Covid strain inside them to mutate/evolve to become more deadly, virulent and less affected by the current vaccinations. Although the person did not die they did give this new strain to another person while they were still transmissible. The result is thousands more people die due to a new Covid strain.
As such it is not as clear cut as being a personal choice. There is a much bigger picture involved that affects everyone.
Personal freedom outweighs your irrational fears.
 

Dr Super Good

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Personal freedom outweighs
There have to be limits to personal freedom in a functional society. For example rules exist that make murdering other people a crime. Just because someone likes to murder people and views it as their personal freedom to do so does not make it good for society in general which is why rules exist that make it illegal. Sure this was an extreme example, but where does one draw the line?

The examples I gave in the above post may be unlikely, but are possible.
 

deepstrasz

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There have to be limits to personal freedom in a functional society. For example rules exist that make murdering other people a crime. Just because someone likes to murder people and views it as their personal freedom to do so does not make it good for society in general which is why rules exist that make it illegal. Sure this was an extreme example, but where does one draw the line?

The examples I gave in the above post may be unlikely, but are possible.
Let's not exaggerate. If all other medical measures are respected, it's abiding by the law and being moral. You don't just force treatment on people as you don't force education on them.
 

Dr Super Good

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Let's not exaggerate. If all other medical measures are respected, it's abiding by the law and being moral. You don't just force treatment on people as you don't force education on them.
Education is forced on people. Parents can have their children taken away if they do not attend school. Again this is because it is good for society in general even if it is sacrificing freedom of individuals.

Forcing treatment of conditions that only affect the person is another discussion. If a person refuses their cancer treatment that is their own choice as between it making little difference and not directly making others sick they are not really harming society. On the other hand an Ebola patient refusing treatment to go home is another matter. They very likely will spread it to other people so letting them go could be considered irresponsible. Sure Covid is not Ebola, but where does one draw the line? Both do kill people.
 

deepstrasz

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Education is forced on people. Parents can have their children taken away if they do not attend school. Again this is because it is good for society in general even if it is sacrificing freedom of individuals.
Again, you are exaggerating. Depriving a child from education is a crime for obvious reasons. Teaching them sexual education at 3 years old should also be a crime. Besides, you should not be forced to educate your child in public schools. That's fascism.
Forcing treatment of conditions that only affect the person is another discussion. If a person refuses their cancer treatment that is their own choice as between it making little difference and not directly making others sick they are not really harming society.
How about psychiatric treatment? Some people might not only take their life but others as well in the process.
They very likely will spread it to other people so letting them go could be considered irresponsible. Sure Covid is not Ebola, but where does one draw the line? Both do kill people.
You draw the line when the person intentionally spreads the disease. That's what you do with murderers that don't get life detention and get reintegrated in society.
 
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