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Covid-19 vaccination

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Have you been vaccinated against Covid-19? If yes, what was your experience? If not, will you? Why will you? Or why won't you?

I have been vaccinated, and it wasn't painful or anything. I only had a small temperature a day after, but only for a few hours. I'm about to receive my second dosage in three days. Honestly, I feel safer now.

EDIT: After my 2nd dosage, I had terrible headaches, and high temperature (39°C) for roughly 12 - 14h, a night after I received it. In roughly 10AM the next morning, it all passed, and everything went back to normal.

Oh, and the vaccine was Pfizer-BioNTech.
 
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I mean. I haven't been sick with flu for like... 15 years. Despite the fact that it's highly recommended to vaccinate from it every year, and I haven't vaccinated in... 15 years as well. You'll say covid is different, but I haven't been sick with it (unless I didn't notice) since the supposed beginning of the outbreak a couple years ago. And I haven't been hiding - I am working around lots of people and am spending plenty of time out in the city and beyond.

On top of all of this, I have been doing research, following the happenings in my country. And it is widely documented, that the vaccine carries significant risks (blood clots). So much so, that many countries have stopped vaccinating people with Astra Zeneca.

Considering this, I believe that a lot more logical choice for me is not to vaccinate.

And in general - I'd say that vaccines are only needed for old people, or other people with weaker immune systems. Because those people might not be able to develop natural immunity.
 

Dr Super Good

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You'll say covid is different, but I haven't been sick with it (unless I didn't notice) since the supposed beginning of the outbreak a couple years ago.
Except you have no proof that you have resistance to it. It could be that so far you have been lucky and not exposed to a dangerous dose of it. Many people with such a care free attitude have ended up seriously ill due to covid, and some of them did not recover from it.

The outbreak started in late 2019, at least in a form that was not able to be controlled. Outside comparatively few cases of different SARS strains there was no major issue with it before then. Covid is also not a common flu, so normal anti-body and immune responses do not work as well to combat it, especially in some individuals. If this was just a common flu there would not have been lockdowns, and millions of normally healthy people would not have died from it.
On top of all of this, I have been doing research, following the happenings in my country. And it is widely documented, that the vaccine carries significant risks (blood clots). So much so, that many countries have stopped vaccinating people with Astra Zeneca.
Which is why there are multiple vaccines from different manufacturers. Hopefully better ones will become wider spread and replace the less safe ones. If you are in the high risk profile for complications from a specific one being used in your area then I recommend keeping safe, such as wearing masks in crowded areas and obeying social distancing, until safer ones are being offered.
 
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As DSG brought up, an important term here is "Viral Load" the reason healthcare workers have higher death rate when exposed is because they are often exposed to a higher amount of the virus, giving less time for them to build an immune response.

OT, I had early access to the vaccine in March. The brand was Pfizer, and the first shot didn't affect me at all. My girlfriend was having flu symptoms from the first shot. For shot #2, the next day I pretty much just slept off. I very much had an immune response the 2nd dose, which is typical because there is more of the mRNA that creates an immune reponse in the 2nd shot. My experience is in line with everyone else I know who has had one of the 2-dose vaccines.

You should get a vaccine, you should advocate others do the same, and you should do your best to quell conspiracy theories about mRNA directly modifying your DNA.
 

deepstrasz

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the reason healthcare workers have higher death rate when exposed is because they are often exposed to a higher amount of the virus, giving less time for them to build an immune response.
Actually, they should get faster and more antibodies. More exposure->more antibodies. Higher death rates comes to those who have health issues.
You should get a vaccine, you should advocate others do the same, and you should do your best to quell conspiracy theories about mRNA directly modifying your DNA.
You should if it's needed. If you have antibodies, you shouldn't to appease politics.
 

Dr Super Good

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Actually, they should get faster and more antibodies. More exposure->more antibodies. Higher death rates comes to those who have health issues.
For normal viruses, yes. However covid is not a normal virus and the human immune system is generally poor at combating it efficiently. If the person is exposed to a huge dose they might be in a critical condition before their body starts creating anti-bodies in a meaningful way to combat it, by which time it may be too late. As it is people will naturally lose anti-bodies for it after a few months so can get relapses.

You should if it's needed. If you have antibodies, you shouldn't to appease politics.
Yes however without tests it is unclear if a person does have anti-bodies. Even if they do, it is unclear how effective they are against other strains.
 

deepstrasz

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If the person is exposed to a huge dose they might be in a critical condition before their body starts creating anti-bodies in a meaningful way to combat it, by which time it may be too late. As it is people will naturally lose anti-bodies for it after a few months so can get relapses.
Yeah, but that's not often and it's dependent on many factors like genetics, health issues etc.
Yes however without tests it is unclear if a person does have anti-bodies. Even if they do, it is unclear how effective they are against other strains.
Of course, you should get tested first...
One vaccine is not effective against all strands either.

Fact is, we don't know everything about how this coronavirus works and even how the vaccine does in the long run. Besides people are not clones and things don't work the same for everyone with or without the vaccine.
So, if you have antibodies and you are not a person at risk, then it should be pretty much safe to wait for those antibodies to decrease. Pumping up your immune system more than necessary isn't a good idea either.
 
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Except you have no proof that you have resistance to it. It could be that so far you have been lucky and not exposed to a dangerous dose of it. Many people with such a care free attitude have ended up seriously ill due to covid, and some of them did not recover from it.
I've been lucky for over 2 years, even though I spent majority of the day, most days of the week, among lots of people? Either I have some insane amount of luck, or this virus isn't as scary as it's portrayed (at least to me).

The outbreak started in late 2019, at least in a form that was not able to be controlled. Outside comparatively few cases of different SARS strains there was no major issue with it before then. Covid is also not a common flu, so normal anti-body and immune responses do not work as well to combat it, especially in some individuals. If this was just a common flu there would not have been lockdowns, and millions of normally healthy people would not have died from it.
Millions of "healthy" people did not die from it. Most of the deaths come from the risk factor groups. Also, lots more people worldwide die each year for various kinds of reasons, including annual flu.

Which is why there are multiple vaccines from different manufacturers. Hopefully better ones will become wider spread and replace the less safe ones.
And supposedly I should take the risk? As far as I've researched, quite negative information is springing up against Pfizer, J&J and Moderna as well. Why, on Earth, would I take the risk when I am perfectly healthy?

If you are in the high risk profile for complications from a specific one being used in your area then I recommend keeping safe, such as wearing masks in crowded areas and obeying social distancing, until safer ones are being offered.
I haven't been wearing masks outside, nor distancing myself from anyone, in these over-2-years of this "outbreak". Yet I hadn't caught this "virus", and I haven't infected any of my family members, friends, colleagues or other acquittances. For the most part, I lived my life just as I did before this "outbreak".
 
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To OP: Yes, I got the Moderna vaccine. 1st & 2nd doses. It caused me no noticeable pain or discomfort, beyond a sense that I shouldn't lie on that side at night for a little while. After the 1st dose, I had absolutely no side effects worth mentioning whatsoever.

After the 2nd, I had chills/shaking in my whole body during the night roughly 14 hours after the shot. At 23 hours, I was hit with a bout of nausea, fatigue, and lightheadedness strong enough I thought I might pass out. I didn't throw up, however, and after lying on the bathroom floor for over half an hour, the worst side effects abated and did not return. I was then left only with a sense of tiredness that lasted all day, and I caught up on a lot of sleep. :)

My community, that is to say my local county, has suffered roughly a third of its population in confirmed cases and several deaths. I'm extremely glad and gratified that I won't be one of either, now!

To anyone who is concerned at all about the vaccine, let me just ask you this. If there were a vaccine available to eliminate your risk of dying from cancer, wouldn't you take it? How about one to cure diabetes? AIDS? Alzheimer's? How is this any different? Covid has the potential to not just kill you, but instead cripple you for life due to irrevocable damage to the lungs, and other symptoms we're only still figuring out. This virus can and will mess you up very badly. It's the known factor, the thing that if you risk and aren't lucky, you could easily die, or kill someone else close to you because you transmitted the virus to them. The vaccine, for all the hubbub around it, doesn't hold a candle to the amount of risk Covid poses. It's a one- or two-time shot and done, you don't have to worry about it again.

P.S.: Even after getting both my shots, I still wear two masks when I go out, just to assure people that I'm taking this seriously. And I still keep my battery-powered pulse oximeter closeby, which can measure my blood-oxygen concentration and tell me if I might have the hypoxia symptom of Covid. That little device alone gave me so much peace of mind before I got my shots.
 
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To anyone who is concerned at all about the vaccine, let me just ask you this. If there were a vaccine available to eliminate your risk of dying from cancer, wouldn't you take it? How about one to cure diabetes? AIDS? Alzheimer's? How is this any different? Covid has the potential to not just kill you, but instead cripple you for life due to irrevocable damage to the lungs, and other symptoms we're only still figuring out. This virus can and will mess you up very badly. It's the known factor, the thing that if you risk and aren't lucky, you could easily die, or kill someone else close to you because you transmitted the virus to them. The vaccine, for all the hubbub around it, doesn't hold a candle to the amount of risk Covid poses. It's a one- or two-time shot and done, you don't have to worry about it again.
Yet over 99% of people go through this disease with very mild symptoms and have no "irrevocable damage to the lungs". Hmmm.

In the end, you do your thing, and let others do theirs ¯\(ツ)
 
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Yet over 99% of people go through this disease with very mild symptoms and have no "irrevocable damage to the lungs". Hmmm.

In the end, you do your thing, and let others do theirs ¯\(ツ)
And how long can we expect it to stay that way?

The virus is mutating. We see that much with the variants popping up in the UK, India and so on. There's already one that's about 70% more transmissible and it's overrun the 'old' version of the virus in the UK. It's easy to blow off some 600k+ deaths in the US as 'some kind of flu' and shrug our shoulders, but we can see with our own eyes what happens when the virus has room and time to adapt. If it mutates into a more deadly strain with harsher symptoms, will you still keep pressing this point that because a majority of people have mild symptoms, it doesn't matter? That kind of thinking is what got us here.

I didn't just take the vaccine for myself. I took it so the virus would have one less potential host to mutate within, and one less platform to infect others from. Hallelujah for anyone who has only mild symptoms -- I know several personally -- but that doesn't erase the people who die from or are crippled by it. It doesn't even begin to touch on how Covid has led to packed hospitals, and incredible strain on our healthcare system & workers with the staggering inflow of patients.

That's another thing I wanted to bring up, by the way. I know medical workers personally, too. They all tell me that it was almost easier on them psychologically when there was no vaccine, but now that there is, and there are STILL people too reluctant to get it and thus resulting in more hospitalizations, it makes them think "What the hell? We don't need this! The shot is out there, why didn't this person get it instead of winding up here?" You might want to think about that, too.
 
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Have you been vaccinated against Covid-19? If yes, what was your experience? If not, will you? Why will you? Or why won't you?

I have been vaccinated, and it wasn't painful or anything. I only had a small temperature a day after, but only for a few hours. I'm about to receive my second dosage in three days. Honestly, I feel safer now.

EDIT: After my 2nd dosage, I had terrible headaches, and high temperature (39°C) for roughly 12 - 14h, a night after I received it. In roughly 10AM the next morning, it all passed, and everything went back to normal.

Oh, and the vaccine was Pfizer-BioNTech.
Well, I got the first dose at 15th June, and the only thing I got was a small discomfort in my arm in the area where the needle pierced.

My second dose will be at 6th July. After receiving it, I will give an update.

My vaccine was Pfizer as well.
 

Dr Super Good

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Millions of "healthy" people did not die from it. Most of the deaths come from the risk factor groups. Also, lots more people worldwide die each year for various kinds of reasons, including annual flu.
Covid has caused an increase in death rates from the yearly average. It would have caused even more if preventative measures like lockdowns were not used. The true death toll will never be known as a lot of poorer countries will write covid deaths off as natural causes.
And supposedly I should take the risk? As far as I've researched, quite negative information is springing up against Pfizer, J&J and Moderna as well. Why, on Earth, would I take the risk when I am perfectly healthy?
Because for all you know you are already taking the risk, healthy or not. A bad dose of covid could be the end of anyone, even if so far you have resisted it.

Also just because you might resit it does not mean others do. Even with anti-bodies or an immune system that can fight it you can still be a carrier and infect others who might not have such a good immune system. Even if you get the inoculation you can still get covid, only difference being you have orders of magnitude better chances of making a good and fast recovery from it and not even needing hospital treatment.

I also suggest reading up positive research results from the inoculations, including the near zero deaths from covid and minimal chance of needing intensive care. It is important to have the full picture, not just one-side of it.
I haven't been wearing masks outside, nor distancing myself from anyone, in these over-2-years of this "outbreak". Yet I hadn't caught this "virus", and I haven't infected any of my family members, friends, colleagues or other acquittances. For the most part, I lived my life just as I did before this "outbreak".
*That you know of. Without scientific proof it is purely speculation. For all you might know, you could have been lucky and not caught it, and your family lucky and not caught it. For now...

Treatment policies cannot rely on luck and hearsay. They have to use scientific principles to be effective. Otherwise a lot of people will make claims like yours, even if it is not the case for them. As it is there is a huge problem with people lying about having inoculations, staying isolated or keeping socially distanced and that is why covid cases are increasing again in many areas of the world.
Yet over 99% of people go through this disease with very mild symptoms and have no "irrevocable damage to the lungs". Hmmm.
Evidence? I am pretty sure it is more like 20% of people have issues with it and possible long term health complications, especially given todays aging populations. At times they were reporting over a 20% fatality rate in some areas. And like I said, some pooer countries will never record the true death figure, attributing those deaths to other causes.
In the end, you do your thing, and let others do theirs ¯\(ツ)
Covid is a global problem. Everyone has to work together on it, without exceptions, otherwise it will win and keep persisting. If everyone just obeyed lockdown practices covid would be history already, defeated by the immune systems of the few who caught it. Instead selfish individuals thought the lockdown was a joke and did not obey it, spread covid, and that is why covid still exists and is rising again.
 
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@Setokaiva It's not even just lung inflammation. They've found inflammation in MANY major organs in the human body. SARS-COVID binds to ACE receptors, which we have in our (according to wikipedia): membrane of cells located in the intestines, kidney, testis, gallbladder, and heart.

Brain fog is also a side effect post COVID recovery. An independent study of reletively small sample size (<1k iirc), showed that almost 90% of people with long-COVID spend their time completely sedentary. When you can't walk up a flight of stairs without being winded, you're practically disabled.

@Amigoltu, If you want to roll the dice on your life, and risk infecting and indirectly causing the deaths of others, then fine. Don't social distance, don't wear a mask. But my forgiveness for such people has run out. You are acting selfishly at the detriment of everyone. Not everything is about your rights.
 
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Covid has caused an increase in death rates from the yearly average. It would have caused even more if preventative measures like lockdowns were not used. The true death toll will never be known as a lot of poorer countries will write covid deaths off as natural causes.
The true death toll will never be known because of the inflated statistics. As an article below points out, lots of deaths are written as "covid deaths" despite the fact, that covid was not the primary cause, or in some cases, not even one of the contributing causes.

Because for all you know you are already taking the risk, healthy or not. A bad dose of covid could be the end of anyone, even if so far you have resisted it.
And yet, for all I know, this may be a lesser risk. Not to mention, that I will rather take the risk of getting hurt by a natural cause, than being hurt by something that was supposed to protect me.

Either way is a risk. And it's my choice to decide which one I take.

Also: there's no such thing as a "dose" of virus. You either get the virus, or not. And your immune system recognizes it and destroys it, or not. It doesn't matter what "dose" you get.

[...] you can still be a carrier and infect others who might not have such a good immune system.
If those others have vaccinated, they have nothing to fear, right? And if they decided not to, then they have accepted the possible risk. Not to mention, that as you pointed out yourself, even those vaccinated can get sick. And again, with an over 99% recovery chance, most people already have a good chance of "good and fast recovery".

And if some of them do need hospital treatment - that's what hospitals are for. And it's not like they are overburdened...

*That you know of. Without scientific proof it is purely speculation. For all you might know, you could have been lucky and not caught it, and your family lucky and not caught it. For now...
I do know, though. If they would have gotten sick, they would have. I'd have known.

As for that "lucky" - let's stop with the joke. Neither I, nor my acquittances were healthy these past 2 years because of "luck".

Treatment policies cannot rely on luck and hearsay. They have to use scientific principles to be effective. Otherwise a lot of people will make claims like yours, even if it is not the case for them.
What, exactly, do you mean by this? If a person didn't get severely sick, a person didn't get severely sick. What would be the point of lying?

Evidence? I am pretty sure it is more like 20% of people have issues with it and possible long term health complications, especially given todays aging populations.
There are lots of sources from WHO, worldometer, CDC, etc. You can easily make the calculations yourself.

Even with the inflated statistics, the number stays at approx. 99% (+-0.5%).

Covid is a global problem. Everyone has to work together on it, without exceptions, otherwise it will win and keep persisting. If everyone just obeyed lockdown practices covid would be history already, defeated by the immune systems of the few who caught it. Instead selfish individuals thought the lockdown was a joke and did not obey it, spread covid, and that is why covid still exists and is rising again.
There is no such thing as "selfishness" here. It's everyone's individual business to take precautions, or not. If you vaccinated, you have nothing to fear. Supposedly. If you don't trust the vaccine - that's another topic. Not to mention, that most people have nothing to fear anyways.

Covid is not a big problem to the vast majority of the people. There is no justification, whatsoever, for the lockdowns. And there is even less justification for constitution-breaking forceful vaccinations or discrimination against those, who do not vaccinate.

Lastly, covid will likely NEVER go away, just like flu never really went away. And we aren't freaking out over flu, are we? :)

@Amigoltu, If you want to roll the dice on your life, and risk infecting and indirectly causing the deaths of others, then fine. Don't social distance, don't wear a mask. But my forgiveness for such people has run out. You are acting selfishly at the detriment of everyone. Not everything is about your rights.
Guess what? Driving your car, going on hikes, even just going outside - all of it is "rolling the dice on your life".
As I told @Dr Super Good - if other people have vaccinated, they don't need to fear me (unless they distrust the vaccine), and if they chose not to, like myself - it's their choice as well.

Everyone of us has the right to take, or not to take, precautions. And if you spit on my freedom and rights, you are as "selfish" as I am. :)
 
My list of issues with getting the Covid 19 Vaccine are as follows:

Coronaviruses Are Highly Mutagenic​

Like many other RNA viruses, their genome changes quite rapidly and we simply do not have the technology to keep up with it. Its the same reason you cannot meaningfully vaccinate against the, "common cold." (Which can be coronavirus.) I find that getting the Covid-19 vaccine is futile. Once a virus is exposed to a sufficiently large sample size, we are stuck with it. This bug is here to stay and it is already mutating... Which leads me into my next point.

Different Strains Already Exist​

Of which, your vaccine may or may not have prepared your immune system for. This should also be coupled with the knowledge that mutations survive based off of fitness. If a virus is less likely to kill the host it is more fit. This is why novel viruses eventually become less deadly over time.

I Am Not Personally "At Risk"​

This is due to me not having any preexisting medical issues and being far away from the age lethality curve. Selfish? Perhaps. I understand there is a minority of the population unable to get the jab due to preexisting medical conditions. Call me unsympathetic; I call it natural selection. If these people are so concerned for their safety, they can self isolate.

Other Factors​

I won't actually get into the issues of the health risks and efficacy of the current array of vaccines, but that certainly weighs into my consideration.

Conclusion​

If you swapped out Covid-19 with a virus that has a much higher lethality rate (like small pox for example), I would certainly take whatever vaccines were available. However, this is not the case. Covid-19 is somewhat effective at killing those who are already sick, fat or old.... But almost kills no one who falls outside of these categories. I will not take the jab at this point in time, but I am open to it if the current circumstances change.
 
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Got my 2nd shot yesterday. For me it is only logical to get the vaccination, even though I'm not at risk. Every life I can help save I am glad to do.

Can't really get behind anybody not choosing to do it. It costs you nothing, there is more or less no risk for you if you take it, it doesnt even require a lot of time. Not getting vaccinated is purely selfish and un-empathetic.

Also, mRNA vaccines are highly promising when it comes to adapting to mutations and further viruses, so supporting it only makes sense.
 
Got my 2nd shot yesterday. For me it is only logical to get the vaccination, even though I'm not at risk. Every life I can help save I am glad to do.

Can't really get behind anybody not choosing to do it. It costs you nothing, there is more or less no risk for you if you take it, it doesnt even require a lot of time. Not getting vaccinated is purely selfish and un-empathetic.

Also, mRNA vaccines are highly promising when it comes to adapting to mutations and further viruses, so supporting it only makes sense.
1. You can still get Covid-19
2. You can still spread Covid-19
3. The vaccine only helps your body fight off Covid-19.
4. You cannot ever adapt quick enough unless you rush your vaccines which lead to some other fun issues.
5. I hate to sound like a rational voice, but are you sure there is no risk taking the jab? Have you done your research?

So look, basically i won't be getting vaccinated...ugh i know! Ugh i know, im sorry!!!

i just wont

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
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1. You can still get Covid-19
2. You can still spread Covid-19
3. The vaccine only helps your body fight off Covid-19.
4. You cannot ever adapt quick enough unless you rush your vaccines which lead to some other fun issues.
5. I hate to sound like a rational voice, but are you sure there is no risk taking the jab? Have you done your research?

So look, basically i won't be getting vaccinated...ugh i know! Ugh i know, im sorry!!!

i just wont

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

There is a general misunderstand of people criticising the vaccines. In the end its not about not getting the virus, but the ultimate goal is and always has been to secure that the overloading of the health-system does not happen. Thus:

1. Yes I can. But my chances of getting a severe case are lowered by a lot, thus keeping free intensive care stations in the hospital.
2. Yes I can. But less severe cases lead to a lower virus count in your body, thus reducing the chance of spreading it.
3. Obviously. Don't know why there is a need to state that, although it does circle back to my entrance statement.
4. You can do exactly that. mRNA vaccines can be adapted in a shorter amount of time (months to a year) instead of older state of the art vaccines, which took multiple years. Please do tell me of the fun issues you are mentioning. People are always saying: "they rushed the vaccines so there are bound to be mistakes happening". No. The reason the covid vaccines were able to be developed this quickly was because of huge global interest, financial backing and studies for multiple phases being done at the same time. The isolated studies themselves + the individual phases were done completly appropriate and in their regular time span.
5. Yes. I have done my research and as a matter of fact, the mRNA vaccine is not able to have long lasting side effects, based on its scientific principle. I would have to look for english sources for that, but I can share some german sources if necessary.

Don't be sorry. It's your body. It's your choice. Doesn't mean I can't criticise you for it.
 
Another bit of failed reasoning you've made maddeem is on the mutability of the Coronavirus. Because Coronavirus was able to spread so far and so quickly this is what allows it to mutate faster. Vaccines help prevent/slow the mutations since the virus needs to spread and propagate in order to mutate which is something vaccines prevent by their very nature.

So you had the correct initial statement about how coronaviruses mutate but have come to the wrong conclusion. Also as far as I have read about most of the current vaccines they are still effective against almost every strain to varying degrees.
 
Another bit of failed reasoning you've made maddeem is on the mutability of the Coronavirus. Because Coronavirus was able to spread so far and so quickly this is what allows it to mutate faster. Vaccines help prevent/slow the mutations since the virus needs to spread and propagate in order to mutate which is something vaccines prevent by their very nature.

So you had the correct initial statement about how coronaviruses mutate but have come to the wrong conclusion. Also as far as I have read about most of the current vaccines they are still effective against almost every strain to varying degrees.
No. RNA based viruses mutate faster than their DNA counterparts was my implication, which I thought was obvious...

Edit: And like I said, mutations survive based on fitness. Mutations that kill the host make it less fit, therefore a less fit virus for the goal of propagation.

Also the vaccine does not slow propagation in a meaningful way. It just gives your immune system a "heads up" on the spike protein that allows the virus to bind to your cells. You will still have symptoms and will likely recover quicker, but you are still highly contagious.

Edit 2: Yeah PROXY, sources for #2 would be nice
Edit 3: Oh and #4 and 5 would be cool too
 
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No. RNA based viruses mutate faster than their DNA counterparts was my implication, which I thought was obvious...
Yes they mutate quickly, and one of the ways you can prevent them from mutating is through vaccinations and stopping the spread of the virus. Which is what I'm saying: you start from the correct premise and reach the wrong conclusion.
 
Ah, read my edit lol

Also the vaccine does not slow propagation in a meaningful way. It just gives your immune system a "heads up" on the spike protein that allows the virus to bind to your cells. You will still have symptoms and will likely recover quicker, but you are still highly contagious.
Ok now you just seem to not understand how transmission and propagation work and how faster recovery times and preventing the spread of a virus is essential in preventing possible mutations. Also your analogy I would describe as inaccurate. Either way, clearly you've made up your mind on COVID and the vaccines and are unwilling to change your stance in spite of the flaws in your reasoning/rational. Therefore I will simply say that I hope you change your stance at some point.

As for the topic of the thread in general, I will be getting my first vaccine dose tomorrow and hopefully the sooner the majority of my country gets vaccinated the sooner things can get back to relative normalcy.
 

deepstrasz

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I'm not vaccinated yet, I'm not wearing a mask at home and have no disinfectant like lysol and felt like I set my real life option to hardest mode. The reason why I want to be vaccinated is not to die early. (Setting my difficulty much lower)
Just wondering if Sinovac and Sputnik V aren't that effective compared to BioNTech.
 
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The funny thing is, if vaccinated people can still propagate SARS-COVID2, then you would want to get a vaccine MORE as these people will not be staying home when they are contagious, they will be out doing their regular daily activities. This is furthered by the fact that in many places, there is no mandatory mask mandate.
 
Level 7
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
127
This is the table of deaths from COVID in Spain since the beginning of the pandemic:

Age groupConfirmedHospitalizedUCIDeath
0 - 9263899231815014
10 - 19423556271518319
20 - 29497464932047894
30 - 39521865191761313223
40 - 49640247381303413823
50 - 595620465773871762950
60 - 6935788066000108487804
70 - 7923577172428935917698
80 >25425597791173750764

Let's say we believe the official data, I think that it's evident that injecting a vaccine developed in less than 1 year is risky (even more dangerous if you are under 50 years old where COVID practically doesn't kill anyone).

Here, in Spain, the goverment plans for July a massive vaccination of the entire young population, ranging from 6 to 29 years old, which makes no sense if we look at the data.
 
There's no reason to believe the COVID vaccines are any less safe than regular vaccines. They were able to be produced and pass tests much faster for a variety of reasons. One being that some countries had plans in place for a global pandemic for faster vaccine production/research.

You show quantitative data with no qualitative analysis. For example what if I told you that young people <50 are more likely to be out and about and therefore more likely to spread it to older people? For example that's why it was important to shut schools even though children have almost no chance of dying to it as children are terrible for spreading diseases and illnesses for a variety of reasons.
 
There's no reason to believe the COVID vaccines are any less safe than regular vaccines. They were able to be produced and pass tests much faster for a variety of reasons. One being that some countries had plans in place for a global pandemic for faster vaccine production/research.

You show quantitative data with no qualitative analysis. For example what if I told you that young people <50 are more likely to be out and about and therefore more likely to spread it to older people? For example that's why it was important to shut schools even though children have almost no chance of dying to it as children are terrible for spreading diseases and illnesses for a variety of reasons.
Poor argument, the obvious solution for these boomers and people who neglected their bodies is/was self isolation.

Sacrificing a younger generation's well being, economy and mental health for these people is hilarious. I laugh about it because I've come out unscathed in all regards. Now you want them to take a vaccine with a chance of serious life threatening conditions or death.

Funny that you say that these vaccines were not rushed. Not a single one has completed clinical trials yet. For your sake and the rest of the vaccinated world, I hope you are right. I for one, will take my chances without the vaccine.
 
Poor argument, the obvious solution for these boomers and people who neglected their bodies is/was self isolation.

Sacrificing a younger generation's well being, economy and mental health for these people is hilarious. I laugh about it because I've come out unscathed in all regards. Now you want them to take a vaccine with a chance of serious life threatening conditions or death.

Funny that you say that these vaccines were not rushed. Not a single one has completed clinical trials yet. For your sake and the rest of the vaccinated world, I hope you are right. I for one, will take my chances without the vaccine.
That's a false dichotomy right there, you save the well being, economy and mental health of people by combating the pandemic effectively. Compare the situation in my own country of the UK which had a piss poor response to the likes of New Zealand which had a much better response.
 
Level 29
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Mar 28, 2015
Messages
2,678
Alright, now I can give an update regarding my vaccination.

Yesterday, I took the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine at exactly 8:16 A.M.
The only side-effect I had was a slight sense of pain in the area where I was vaccinated, which is still ongoing, but only if I add pressure to it.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 69
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
18,843
So I decided to do my own research on death rates in regards to COVID-19. What I found was that among CYP (Children & Young People) the death rate of those infected with the Lambda variant of COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) is 1/500,000, meanwhile the death rate for the vaccine is 1/650,000. The reason why I, as a 25 year old, am not going to get any of the vaccines for COVID-19 is because I would be deliberately exposing myself to a drug which has a death rate that is very similar to the disease itself. I am not guaranteed to be exposed to COVID-19, especially if I follow proper safety precautions, but if I choose to take the vaccine then I am guaranteed to be exposed to a drug with a similar lethality. Furthermore, even if I were to take the vaccine I would still potentially be able to spread COVID-19 to others. It just doesn't make sense for somebody of my age/health who does not work with members of the general public to take the COVID-19 vaccine.

Who qualifies as a CYP?

According to the official website for NHS England CYP is defined as somebody from the ages of 0-25.

Where did I get the 1/650,000 figure from? The BBC published an article on the 15th of July 2021 stating that the average death rate of individuals who have received any vaccine for COVID-19 is 1/650,000.

Where did I get the 1/500,000 figure from? Research Square is a scientific preprint publication that publishes research papers before they are officially peer reviewed. The paper in reference to this figure was published on the 7th of July 2021 and has therefore not had enough time to be officially peer reviewed, a process which usually takes 3-4 weeks to complete. Furthermore, the data presented is in reference to the Lambda variant which wasn't even named until the 14th of June. The paper itself was authored by 15 different authors, all of whom are academic researchers who work for reputable universities, hospitals, and institutions.

Who said that you can still spread COVID-19 after you get the vaccine? The UK Government stated that "it is still possible to catch and spread COVID-19, even if you are fully vaccinated" in their recently published article regarding preventing the spread of Coronavirus after England reopens on the 19th of July.

Conclusion:

It makes no sense for me to take the vaccine for COVID-19 as it provides more risk for me than the virus itself. I do not believe any of the conspiracy theories such as the vaccine being magnetic, or the vaccine causing infertility, my decision is based solely on the figures provided by scientists and reputable authoritative sources, the exact sources we have all trusted so far when it comes to dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. Even if the information I have sourced is wrong I would still rather avoid exposing myself to an experimental vaccine altogether unless absolutely necessary. For some people it may make more sense for them to take the vaccine but for me it seems like an unnecessary risk that simply isn't worth taking.

All my sources are taken from reputable news sources, official government websites, or respected scientific journals and you can access them here: CYP Death Rates in England:


BBC News Vaccine Death Rates: Lisa Shaw death: Husband calls for vaccine choice

NHS Children and Young People Age: NHS England » Children and young people UK Government on Spreading Post-Vaccine:

COVID-19 Response: Summer 2021 coronavirus-how-to-stay-safe-and-help-prevent-the-spread
 

Deleted member 247165

D

Deleted member 247165

Yeah. You do realize that this intentionally spreaded virus was causing more panic and fear than it would normally produce, right ? I do not say it doesn't exist but it is not so deadly. Now you're gonna say "omg but many people died of covid". No that is not true. The virus accelerated already existing illnesses in the human body that the person might not even know they had. Like diabetics, lungs problems, and so on. How do I know that ? Simple, I work in a medical network in my country ( a private one more exactly which really does its work). Most doctors say that because of the stupid panic, people's mind went awry. Aside from that, many but many countries count natural deaths as covid deaths becauseeeee the family's members or relatives obtain money if the person died from covid. I swear that it just a stupid charade meant to destroy the huge amount of people (because tbh we are too many indeed) as well as tearing apart many industries. Tell a damn restaurant, shop and so who didnt lost money and resources during this stupid intentionally created crisis! I know how many hospitals and clinics got huge amounts of money from each covid test. Even this pathetic thing is what should make you think for 2 seconds. WHY IS THE TEST WITH MONEY AND THE VACCINE FREE ? Like seriously!
 
Level 29
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Messages
5,174
What about Comirnaty BioNTech (Pfizer) though?
Just look at what's happening in the Pfizer human experimentation country, aka Israel.

Or don't, because every day the news here releases stories that contradict the stories from yesterday, and all the numbers are constantly proven to be skewed or plain lies, sometimes even the media themselves stop telling lies for a day and ask about the government's lies...just take the third shot and then afterwards the 4th and 5th, forever and ever, since viruses don't go away...we had masks off for 2 weeks here after the government decided it's "ok" because people got vaccinated, now we have masks on again and soon there will be a lockdown again, and the media is bombarding pieces about how kids all must be vaccinated and you are evil bla bla bla if you don't stick random unknown shit in your kids, because don't you care about the people around you? just ignore the fact most people here took vaccinations and are still living in their mind jails of fear of the rona, both because the vaccinations don't stop anyone from getting sick or spreading sickness (at best they might reduce the chances and severity, to be seen in the future if we will ever have real numbers and statistics which we won't), and because they've been lied to for so long about the severity of the sickness for young healthy people.

I wonder how things will change when more and more people realize that suddenly they ain't got no money and all common goods cost much more and there is inflation. Will you still put on a mask and take more shots and stay home with no questions asked?
 
Last edited:

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
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Messages
27,198
Also: there's no such thing as a "dose" of virus. You either get the virus, or not. And your immune system recognizes it and destroys it, or not. It doesn't matter what "dose" you get.
Viral dose is basically how much initial exposure you get to the virus. You can think of it kind of like a swarm of angry wasps. A single wasp you can easily dispose of with minimal risk of being stung. However a large swarm of wasps and it is almost certain you will be stung, no matter how skilful and fast you are at disposing of them.

A single virus entering your body will take a long time to reach a dangerous population level. It might even be intercepted and destroyed by other immune responses targeting the infected cells. A lot of virus entering your body will already start out at a population level that could take many hours, or even days to reach, and your natural immune system responses will be overwhelmed from the beginning.
If those others have vaccinated, they have nothing to fear, right? And if they decided not to, then they have accepted the possible risk. Not to mention, that as you pointed out yourself, even those vaccinated can get sick. And again, with an over 99% recovery chance, most people already have a good chance of "good and fast recovery".
Getting sick can still cause long term health problems, vaccinated or not.
And if some of them do need hospital treatment - that's what hospitals are for. And it's not like they are overburdened...
They can very easily become overburdened, as was seen in India this year and even the UK last year.
Covid is not a big problem to the vast majority of the people. There is no justification, whatsoever, for the lockdowns. And there is even less justification for constitution-breaking forceful vaccinations or discrimination against those, who do not vaccinate.
Until you get sick, or people you love get sick, and die from it. Which has happened numerous times already.

Ignorance about the risk and such reckless behaviour is exactly why it still persists. If everyone obeyed regulations to begin with, Covid would be extinct.
What, exactly, do you mean by this? If a person didn't get severely sick, a person didn't get severely sick. What would be the point of lying?
Except not getting sick can have multiple causes behind it, some of which include luck such as not being exposed to it in the first place. You have no scientific proof specifically that your immune system is effective against Covid, or that you will be unharmed by Covid.

Lastly, covid will likely NEVER go away, just like flu never really went away. And we aren't freaking out over flu, are we? :)
It will only never go away because people fail to follow reason and obey logical measures to combat it. If the virus cannot spread, then it quickly goes extinct. The lockdowns were proof of this as they drastically reduced the common flu to near extinction levels. If people had correctly obeyed lockdown procedures then chances are not only Covid would die out, but also the common cold. Alas foolish people who did not wear masks and did not obey the lockdown spread the viruses and so that is why they are still here.
Covid-19 is somewhat effective at killing those who are already sick, fat or old.... But almost kills no one who falls outside of these categories.
Or anyone with undiagnosed health conditions. Or anyone who is exposed to a large initial dose irrespective of how healthy they are, such as a lot of the medical workers who have died. Or even if it does not kill a person, leaving them with long lasting health problems such as scarred lungs.

Would you play Russian Roulette? Then why do so with covid? There were hundreds of people with such an attitude and many of them are now dead, or nearly died.
Mutations that kill the host make it less fit, therefore a less fit virus for the goal of propagation.
Surely fitness is entirely down to its ability to spread. If the host dies or not is irrelevant for the initial purpose of spreading as there are always more hosts to infect. Eventually, after an apocalyptic die off of humanity it would start to evolve to become less harmful as suitable hosts to spread to become more rare so holding onto a host for as long as possible becomes advantageous, but currently on a planet with 7 billion people there is no natural mechanic encouraging it to be less harmful. What is more likely is that through selective pressure, over hundreds of years, humans would become naturally more resistant to the virus since their survival success is related to that of the host surviving, unlike the virus.

I'm not wearing a mask at home
Unless you have a lot of visitors to or near your house, you should not need to wear a mask at/in home. Covid can be spread by the air but only over a limited range. Hence why 2 meter distancing is highly effective at reducing it with further spread distances being due to air flow.

The funny thing is, if vaccinated people can still propagate SARS-COVID2, then you would want to get a vaccine MORE as these people will not be staying home when they are contagious, they will be out doing their regular daily activities. This is furthered by the fact that in many places, there is no mandatory mask mandate.
Yes however unfortunately the economy still has to keep running. Most countries have burnt through all their financial reserves so have no choice but to try to return to normal life within reason.

If people had obeyed the lockdowns when they happened it could have been defeated. But now large scale lockdowns are no longer really possible.
Here, in Spain, the goverment plans for July a massive vaccination of the entire young population, ranging from 6 to 29 years old, which makes no sense if we look at the data.
It only does not make sense if the risk from dying after taking the vaccine is higher than the risk of dying. Which is unlikely to be the case. The vaccines also help to combat hospitalisations and long term complications, another issue not recorded in those stats.

Also there is no magic 29 to 30 year old cut-off. Just because the statistics are organised like that does not necessarily mean that between the age of 29 and 30 your risk increases a lot. It is highly likely that at 29 your risk is closer to the 30+ risk category than to the reported value for 20-29.
There's no reason to believe the COVID vaccines are any less safe than regular vaccines.
Well one of them had some serious issues which is why a lot of places stopped using it. Most of them are quite safe though.
Sacrificing a younger generation's well being, economy and mental health for these people is hilarious. I laugh about it because I've come out unscathed in all regards. Now you want them to take a vaccine with a chance of serious life threatening conditions or death.
Very low chance. Like probably at the level of what covid does to them, or probably even below that while also improving their chances against Covid.

I am not guaranteed to be exposed to COVID-19, especially if I follow proper safety precautions, but if I choose to take the vaccine then I am guaranteed to be exposed to a drug with a similar lethality.
As long as you take the proper safety precautions (masks in public, safe distancing, disinfectants, e.t.c.) it is fine. That is your choice. However will you really always follow the proper safety precautions? Chances are you will eventually make a slipup and get it, especially as life tries to return to normal.
Where did I get the 1/650,000 figure from? The BBC published an article on the 15th of July 2021 stating that the average death rate of individuals who have received any vaccine for COVID-19 is 1/650,000.
Is this factoring in correct vaccination procedure? The vaccine only works after a few weeks after getting both doses. Any time before then and a lot of the unvaccinated risks still apply.

Also be aware that there is no magic age cut-off. If you are close to the 25 cut-off then you need to look at the stats for over 25s as well as they might start to become more applicable to you given how close you are to that age.
Planning to get my shots after my vacation ends. Why spend vacation with a fever? :)
The issue is that the process is not immediate. It takes roughly 2 months to get vaccinated from the time of your first dose to the time of optimal resistance. A lot of covid related deaths of vaccinated people were a result of them getting infected during this 2 month time period.

This is why I had my first dose this month. My second dose will come in the next few weeks. This will mean that by the time summer ends I will have optimal immunity.

For reference, only significant side effect I, and everyone I know, had was the feeling of a bruised arm muscle that lasted 2 days. I forget what vaccine it was though (I am bad at names lol).
No that is not true. The virus accelerated already existing illnesses in the human body that the person might not even know they had. Like diabetics, lungs problems, and so on.
Medical conditions that everyone can and will have. Including the result of age.
many but many countries count natural deaths as covid deaths becauseeeee the family's members or relatives obtain money if the person died from covid
The reported death rate spike well above the periodic average speaks for itself. More people are dying than normal, and so it is almost certain Covid is killing people.
Tell a damn restaurant, shop and so who didnt lost money and resources during this stupid intentionally created crisis!
It was created by people's inability to follow regulations. If people did not spread it, then there would be no need for long running lockdowns.
WHY IS THE TEST WITH MONEY AND THE VACCINE FREE ?
Because the vaccines have been sponsored by major governments.
and because they've been lied to for so long about the severity of the sickness for young healthy people.
A lot of people are not young, or healthy anymore. Those people care as the sickness can be quite severe to them.

I wonder how things will change when more and more people realize that suddenly they ain't got no money and all common goods cost much more and there is inflation. Will you still put on a mask and take more shots and stay home with no questions asked?
This is why most countries, like the UK, are now dropping lockdowns. They have burnt all the money they can trying to combat it and failed due to people's incompetence to follow orders. Now they just have to hope all the vaccinations help.
 
Honestly DSG, I've lost track of how many times I've had documented exposures at my work. I got sick once during those times and got better by the next day. My wife and kids got exposed by proxy (and sick as well)

No long term side effects.

It's almost as if this virus was designed in a lab to target the sick and elderly.

Honestly the worst case scenario is that people with comorbidities die a little bit sooner. The show must go on. At risk folks should self-isolate like they should have been doing from the beginning.

I like so many others just don't care anymore. Fear porn is only effective for so long.

To reiterate, I will not take the jab, I will not eat the bugs or live in the pods, and I will be happy.
 
Level 24
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
3,480
I initially intended not to get involved in this "debate" here or elsewhere but I believe a lot of interesting things have already been said by the posters before me, and I would like to add my general thoughts on the matter.

First of all, it appears that the currently available vaccines work well and are relatively safe. Yes, even the AstraZeneca one. The key words are work well and are relatively safe. That said, if I had a penny for every talking head who repeated that the vaccines are 100% effective or completely safe...

Given my above assumption, I might get vaccinated eventually. Honestly speaking I fear neither the disease nor the vaccine on a personal level. Then there's another angle which is that while I personally am not at a significant risk I could spread the disease to others who are. Putting aside that every week I see new articles on the exact nature of spread (asymptomatic vs symptomatic, level of sterilizing immunity of vaccines, immune response achieved through natural infection) which makes actually understanding the societal consequences of not vaccinating oneself difficult, it is perhaps more importantly a very dangerous road to travel. Where is the line drawn for what one individual is coerced to do for the betterment of the community at large?

There's another angle, as well. If the vaccines work as well as they seemingly do, would these at-risk groups not be protected through vaccinating themselves even if I am walking around the community like one Typhoid Mary? One common counter-argument I hear is while they are protected at large, there are and will be individuals for whom the vaccine is not as effective, be it elderly or people with weakened immune systems. Again it's quite sympathetic a thought that everyone else gets the vaccine in order to shield the minority that can't (or for whom it is not effective). On the other side again, on an ethical level, how much sacrifice or risk can be asked of one individual in order to protect others? What if I get vaccinated but still catch the virus and spread it to someone else who either gets seriously ill or even passes away, am I still to be held responsible?

In general though, it's the hysteria that gets me. Whether it's the post 9/11 craze or the covid ditto, we always need to be extremely careful as to not be caught up in the rage of the daily newsfeed. Five or ten years from now I don't want to hear just like how nobody supported the Iraq war nobody supported mass vaccinations of teens or unprecedented lockdowns.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
11
My tactic was: Wait for guinea pigs to test the vaccines, wait for results, decide. And ofc since I had the virus I did not need to do vac in the months soon after I got it last year. But maybe I might, The upcoming delta variant and by the advice of people I know who work in Medicine and had the virus too, influence me to go for it.
 

These vaccines aren't FDA approved. They have not completed clinical trials. They damage your immune system. Good luck to those who took the jab.
 
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