• Listen to a special audio message from Bill Roper to the Hive Workshop community (Bill is a former Vice President of Blizzard Entertainment, Producer, Designer, Musician, Voice Actor) 🔗Click here to hear his message!
  • Read Evilhog's interview with Gregory Alper, the original composer of the music for WarCraft: Orcs & Humans 🔗Click here to read the full interview.

Concept Art Contest #5 - Mythology

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Art & Graphics Design Moderator
Level 58
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
4,467
The World Is Flat said:
Anatomy is a moot point, this is about mythological creatures.
Click to expand...

YOU FAIL!

(at least in my book you do)

Making anatomy and bone structure logical: is the different between, cool concepts and Breath taking concept that marks your life. To be a concept artist there's so much more to consider, the different between the professional and the fan boy IS here...

More logical is a creature anatomy wise, bone structure wise, muscle structure wise, and easier it is to imagine this creature COULD live/eat/walk/breath/drink/live/reproduce....
 

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

Level 30
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
6,276
... you don't get what i meant by that do you?

Nvm, forget i said it.

one last thing though: Since when does mythology attend to the logical/realistic? I KNOW that somthing can look better or worse if it has acurate anatomical aspects... thats somthing 5th grades know, its common sense... my knowlage of anatomy isnt going to affect my judging of the cold star or the kraken. obviously if the tentacles were attaced by hairs to the main body i would rasie a point, but i'm not jduging the concept am i? i am judging the art. (and if not, then maybe the concept has an explanation for the hairs, its not my place to judge how magic works.)

like i said nvm... forget i said it.
 

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Art & Graphics Design Moderator
Level 58
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
4,467
The World Is Flat said:
... you don't get what i meant by that do you?

Nvm, forget i said it.

one last thing though: Since when does mythology attend to the logical/realistic? I KNOW that somthing can look better or worse if it has acurate anatomical aspects... thats somthing 5th grades know, its common sense... my knowlage of anatomy isnt going to affect my judging of the cold star or the kraken. obviously if the tentacles were attaced by hairs to the main body i would rasie a point, but i'm not jduging the concept am i? i am judging the art. (and if not, then maybe the concept has an explanation for the hairs, its not my place to judge how magic works.)

like i said nvm... forget i said it.
Click to expand...

Now that will be tricky to answer..

This is a CONCEPT ART competition, so you have to focus on the concept, more than the art skills.. now, you have to consider that, the art skills also help making the concept look more realistic and logical, those who are skilled in art, usually involve much more hours of practice and drawing and OBSERVATION. Soo logically, they will tend to make a concept more realistics than those who aren't good at drawing. Altough, that last statement is logical in a way, but it doesn't mean that those who aren't good in drawing don't have a good understanding of anatomy and bone structures etc.

Now, that have been said, the point of ''proportions and logical body structure and anatomy'' have been solve I presume, now concerning the textures of the creature that have been concepted. It is hard to tell if a creature is made out of stone with hair over it and a magic shield around it, if the artist doesn't have the skills to represent it, so IN A WAY inded, the art can help the concept artist to get a better understanding of their concept.

So that's usually why concept artists tend to write side notes to indicate diffrent points that aren't clear, next to their concepts and sketch.

Now, you should understand that, even if we are talking about mystical creatures, all those rules should be applyed.

So I presume, the best way for you to judge fairly each contestant is
= consider the logic of the concept (anatomy wise, how it can eat, breath, reproduce, etc.)
= consider the look of the concept (look, diffrent features, clothing, etc.)
= consider the ''general description'' involved around that concept (what is it supose to represent, is it original to represent that creature that way?, etc.)

That's about it... I invite you to comment on this.
 

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Mr.Goblin

Art & Graphics Design Moderator
Level 58
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
4,467
Zealon said:
Why is this such a big deal? Can't we just let the poor guy judge?
Click to expand...

if he doesn't have what it needs to be a good judge, than I claim someone who has the right knowledges to be judging. (not to discredit you TWIF, or anything, but I still remember that old Concept art competition of yours.)
 

04gusigo

04gusigo

04gusigo

Level 5
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
164
I don't really get what is so hard... but I believe you should judge according to this:

contest%20judging%20and%20voting.png

"Correct"ness		Does the creature/human have realistic anatomy? (Like if the structure of the design is balanced and aesthetically pleasing.) Does the environment make geological sense? Etc./15

Creativity		How inventive is the concept? Does the creature/environment look original or does it look generic?/15

Theme		How well does the concept fit into the theme of mythology?/15

Style		How well does the entrant take advantage of their medium? Do they show creativity in their depiction? Is the style suitable for a concept?/5
  • 75 % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
  • 25 % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.
Then to award more marks for each of the section, you can start judging in detail(like anatomy).
 

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

Level 30
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
6,276
I agree with your points goblin, disagree with a few points, but wont touch on them but this: I was in the understanding that the concept art contest was more focused on the art aspect.

But again, is the judge supposed to be able to judge magic? Should i say: "your magic sucks GTFO" ... ? no. Judging a concept is ... well oppinion... its a concept, you need some kind of referance point, and this concept doesent have it.

I understand and would be able to apply everything in the afore mentioned categories. You need a judge. And I'm a fine one, with prefectly adequate art-appreciation. Again, i understand anatomy, but it may just be a moot point, because most judging anyones going to do comes more from oppinion than textbook around that matter. knowlage does matter, and i have it, but its not somthing so easily judged... seing as this is about magical creatures... referance kraken comment.

The question is:
Do i not have whats needed to be a judge?
I think i have whats needed. Nurdle maybe does too, although we havent run him through hoops like me yet.

I volunteered to help out, I have the skills. If you want me to GTFO say so, but give me a good reason other than i messed up in the entrie requirements of an unrelated contest. (Which I didn't Judge)

... I'm Doing this so you guys can have a judge...

And franky, not being an artist yourself doesent matter (using the term artist lightly) A good artist can still have a horrible understanding of anatomy and other things, but still be able to make something universally pleasing. you could also be a really lousy critic. and in some ways, somone who isnt an 'artist' can be a much better judge of art.

So ya, i ranted too long.
Take nurdle on once you jump him though the hoops i've gone through. and while your at it, say fuck off or come on in to me... -.- this is getting annoying.
 

Dentothor

Dentothor

Dentothor

Level 27
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
2,273
Ughh. If you need me to judge i can. And TWIF to be able to critique art, you have to be able to draw. Its like a baby who isnt toilet trained trying to toilet train another baby. It not a simple opinion. Its an experienced opinion. You, having no experience with art related matters shouldn't be saying how easy it is to judge a piece of art.
 

Kimbo

Kimbo

Kimbo

Level 45
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
6,982
Dentothor said:
Ughh. If you need me to judge i can. And TWIF to be able to critique art, you have to be able to draw. Its like a baby who isnt toilet trained trying to toilet train another baby. It not a simple opinion. Its an experienced opinion. You, having no experience with art related matters shouldn't be saying how easy it is to judge a piece of art.
Click to expand...

To judge art you don't have to be an "artist". That's what makes art amazing, touching and beautiful. That's why it touches the hearts of so many people and makes art appealing.

It doesnt take a music composer to know a song is "good" or "complex" or "well done". You don't have to be a cook to know "good food". You don't have to build cars to know a good car, you dont need to write a book/be a writer to know what a good book is.

This so called "experienced" opinion is bullshit. You only have to know the "technical" aspects of art which ANYONE can be capable of, not the "PROCESS" of making art. So dont start that.

Sheesh, stop excluding Twif by saying this retarded and disgustingly selfish excuses, if you dont want him to be a judge, say the real reason, not an excuse.

I don't care if TWIF is a judge or not, I don't know this "problem with the concept art contest" I hear vaguely about, but seriously. Don't EVER say you need to be an artist or a "good" artist to know "good art" or to judge "good art".
 

enjoy

enjoy

enjoy

Level 23
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
705
I agree with kimberly. You do NOT need to be able to draw yourself, to judge art properly.
There have been many art critiques through time, who have not been artists themselves. I mean, a photographer could judge art aswell. They are not always able to draw, but they know where the light should hit and where the shading is and so on.
I think TWIF would be a nice judge. Stop telling him what he can't do, just because he is not an artist.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

Kimberly said:
To judge art you don't have to be an "artist". That's what makes art amazing, touching and beautiful. That's why it touches the hearts of so many people and makes art appealing.

It doesnt take a music composer to know a song is "good" or "complex" or "well done". You don't have to be a cook to know "good food". You don't have to build cars to know a good car, you dont need to write a book/be a writer to know what a good book is.

This so called "experienced" opinion is bullshit. You only have to know the "technical" aspects of art which ANYONE can be capable of, not the "PROCESS" of making art. So dont start that.

Sheesh, stop excluding Twif by saying this retarded and disgustingly selfish excuses, if you dont want him to be a judge, say the real reason, not an excuse.

I don't care if TWIF is a judge or not, I don't know this "problem with the concept art contest" I hear vaguely about, but seriously. Don't EVER say you need to be an artist or a "good" artist to know "good art" or to judge "good art".
Click to expand...

enjoy said:
I agree with kimberly. You do NOT need to be able to draw yourself, to judge art properly.
There have been many art critiques through time, who have not been artists themselves. I mean, a photographer could judge art aswell. They are not always able to draw, but they know where the light should hit and where the shading is and so on.
I think TWIF would be a nice judge. Stop telling him what he can't do, just because he is not an artist.
Click to expand...

As much as I agree with your arguments, I'd also like to mention that in a concept art context, it's not only the aesthetics that matter (which anybody can appreciate and compare quality of), but also the concept in question. Like I've said before, I don't mind TWIF being a judge, but I would prefer one who is proven to have a more in-depth knowledge of certain aspects related to the contest. For instance, a mythologist would be better qualified to judge our interpretations. A professional concept artist would be better to judge whether this is good and useful concept art. A morphologist (biology) would be better to judge the realism of our concepts. Considering we don't have any of these (as far as I know, anyway), I think another concept artist is our best bet. The only thing we are all qualified to judge, is how original these concepts are, and how aesthetically pleasing they are. Bear in mind, though, that concept art is not designed to be aesthetically pleasing, but rather to be revealing. It's supposed to describe something visually, not to be awesome by itself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

Level 30
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
6,276
Dentothor said:
Ughh. If you need me to judge i can. And TWIF to be able to critique art, you have to be able to draw. Its like a baby who isnt toilet trained trying to toilet train another baby. It not a simple opinion. Its an experienced opinion. You, having no experience with art related matters shouldn't be saying how easy it is to judge a piece of art.
Click to expand...

1. Yes I do.
2. I'm not training anybody.
3. do you know how many professional/casual art criticis there are out there who could never and can never do what the arists do? 90% and higher I'm going to guess. But I've heard higher numbers.

Morphology is, to over simplify, lingustics, and I've taken a brief collage class in it, based around dialect and introduction to basic phonetics. I also have a friend who is a linguist who knows over 8 languages..

so i don't think you mean morphology.

@shiik, we know.

@kim... thats what i was trying to say.


I belive dentothor is banned from involving himself in contests.. no?


I only offered myself up becaus you needed it peeps, nurdl9 hasnt confirmed, and i don't think dent can do that, forgive me if i am wrong. I dont really mind if i don't do it, but both kim and enjoy have a good and serious point.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

Morphology within biology, forgive me for not clarifying, concerns the size, shape, and structure of an organism or one of its parts. For instance, it includes the study of anatomy.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

I'd say go ahead and do your judging, TWIF, if you have the time and will anyway. Then let enjoy consider if she thinks it's fair. I don't know, that might not be necessary. But instead of waiting and discussing, just get to the job. I'm sure it'll be useful to somebody that you judge (I'd love to hear what you have to say about my concept). If Nudl9 shows up to judge, I can't see a problem with there being three judges.
 

Pyramidhe@d

Pyramidhe@d

Pyramidhe@d

Level 43
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
2,263
enjoy said:
I agree with kimberly. You do NOT need to be able to draw yourself, to judge art properly.
There have been many art critiques through time, who have not been artists themselves. I mean, a photographer could judge art aswell. They are not always able to draw, but they know where the light should hit and where the shading is and so on.
I think TWIF would be a nice judge. Stop telling him what he can't do, just because he is not an artist.
Click to expand...

for instance, i dont make icons but i am an icon moderator. the same goes for enjoy as well. but we can moderate icons just fine

However, the issue remains that twif doesnt do art stuff. and this leads to the first point that he is not a suitable art judge material. i am sure he can prolly point out the good stuff like the shading makes sense and etc. but to be a real judge, you need a critical mind and that means twif will have to point out all the bad stuff as well. ESPECIALLY all the bad stuff. And to make sense on why it is bad, he would need to think of a way to remedy that, make a possible suggestion. unless it is something obvious like blurriness, i dont know how you could even begin to explain it unless you have some sort of art experience. a very clear evidence of that is if you look any resource section. take icon section for example. i cant even begin to count how many icons i rejected for sub-par quality which multiple people have rated and commented 4/5 or 5/5 or deserving dc.

but the real problem i think is credibility. none of us come with an official diploma saying "qualified to judge in concept contests" so the public opinion really relies on our image and what they know of us. what i just said in the previous paragraph really amounts to pile of cow pat. for all i know, twif can have an excellent qualities as an art judge and we are all idiots for thinking otherwise. but that possibility doesnt cross our mind because we havent seen anything from twif that relates him to art and because he is not an artsy guy. so the immediate response from everyone is "wtf does he know". this would prolly be the exact response i would get if i were to suddenly moderate the map section or if triggerhappy started moderating skins. now. take that kind of response and put it in a contest judging situation, where people spent their time and effort for a certain goal, to win. and how would that person react to a particularly bad/harsh score from, lets say, twif. the immediate thought will be "wtf does he know." followed by "this judging thing is flawed" followed by "screw these contests". because thats how people react. then, of course, is the drama poopstorm that prolly would follow.

i have my doubts but honestly speaking, give twif the judging because he volunteered for it. if he sucks at it, fine. no lasting harm and we wont just let him judge next time and if we act quickly, get another judge to re-judge the entry. it happened before for an icon contest before and it all went fine.
 

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

The World Is Flat

Level 30
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
6,276
Actually dent, i honestly had no idea. Sorry, i belive i hurt yoru feelings, i sincerely apologise.

Thanks for being honest pyra.
I'm gonna take this slow. gonna go very in depth on my thoughts about each one. hopefully i wont be seen as a non-art ignaranamus after this ^^

hell even if i'm not approved as a judge, i'll still do it anyway, just because all the drama makes me more determined.
 

anarchianbedlam

anarchianbedlam

anarchianbedlam

Level 26
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,050
No wait a second enjoy, lets not get ahead of ourselves now. Who is to say that this poll to decide whether or not you judge is a good idea? What we need are some judges to judge whether or not we should even create this poll to decide if you judge.

EDIT: Wait, but how do we choose the judges to judge that poll for you to judge? maybe we should make a poll for that or something

EDIT: Wait, but then we would need judges for that poll.... and polls for those judges... and so on... AND SO ON! OH SHIT CIRCULAR LOGIC! AAAAHHHHH
 

deepstrasz

deepstrasz

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 75
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
20,241
anarchianbedlam said:
No wait a second enjoy, lets not get ahead of ourselves now. Who is to say that this poll to decide whether or not you judge is a good idea? What we need are some judges to judge whether or not we should even create this poll to decide if you judge.

EDIT: Wait, but how do we choose the judges to judge that poll for you to judge? maybe we should make a poll for that or something

EDIT: Wait, but then we would need judges for that poll.... and polls for those judges... and so on... AND SO ON! OH SHIT CIRCULAR LOGIC! AAAAHHHHH
Click to expand...

We'll just have to have judges for you too :).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Pyritie
  • Locked
Concept-Art Contest #4 - EVOLUTION
14 15 16
Replies
750
Views
68K
Pyritie
Pyritie
Heinvers
  • Locked
Concept Art Contest #8 - Giants
3 4 5
Replies
218
Views
36K
Heinvers
Heinvers
Paladon
  • Locked
Concept Art Contest #3 - Demonic
5 6 7
Replies
336
Views
29K
Paladon
Paladon
Heinvers
  • Locked
Concept Art Contest #9 - Overwhelming Odds
2 3
Replies
128
Views
24K
Mr.Goblin
Mr.Goblin
Mr.Goblin
  • Locked
Concept Art Contest #10 - Bounty Hunter
2 3
Replies
141
Views
24K
stein123
stein123
Top