Beyond the Throne: Tides of Darkness

[Kam]

Look for an update this week.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Hey, that super-Barracks looks kinda cool. : )

 

[JCarrill0]

Old maps being updated as well?

 

[Heinvers]

An update? Cool.

 

[Kam]

Old maps being updated as well?

The older maps have what I consider now to be poor terrain. I won't be updating them. I am working on a new terrain in the city tileset though.

The Outpost is simply a flavor change to differentiate the Human and Orc Barracks. I had tested the Outpost as a combat tower as well but it got too complicated.

 

[JCarrill0]

The older maps have what I consider now to be poor terrain. I won't be updating them. I am working on a new terrain in the city tileset though.

The Outpost is simply a flavor change to differentiate the Human and Orc Barracks. I had tested the Outpost as a combat tower as well but it got too complicated.

That's perfectly fine
Consider making that 3rc race campaign yet?

 

[Kam]

That's perfectly fine
Consider making that 3rc race campaign yet?

I have. I'm not sure I have the time for a campaign. I am also working on a training map though similar to the SC2 challenge maps. You'll need to use Lost units to negotiate a winding road of Orc and Human units.

 

[TaShadan]

Love the Paradise Shoals terrain. Had my first game on it today. There was a bug though. It looks like its related to one of the Orc spellcasters. I can not tell which one it was though because i played human. The game was really laggy while the spell was active (i think it was a whirlwind like thing). You could check the replay. Ignore the chat part where JCarillo is complaining about me being a cheap rusher with a bad cocky attitude.

 

[JCarrill0]

Ignore the chat part where JCarillo is complaining about me being a cheap rusher with a bad cocky attitude.

yeah hehe, we did have fun though.

 

[Kam]

Love the Paradise Shoals terrain. Had my first game on it today. There was a bug though. It looks like its related to one of the Orc spellcasters. I can not tell which one it was though because i played human. The game was really laggy while the spell was active (i think it was a whirlwind like thing). You could check the replay. Ignore the chat part where JCarillo is complaining about me being a cheap rusher with a bad cocky attitude.

First, what service are you using to play?

If Prime406 would like to play with me sometime I enjoy teaching people about my map. I was not surprised TaShadan won, I'm not sure I've ever beat him.

Why no Lost?

There was no lag in the replay but I could tell based on the chat it was when the Huntress used her ultimate. I will look into it before I release an update this week.

Would any of you be available for a game Friday or Saturday?

Do you have any comments about unit balance? I noticed no one pulled sea units either.

 

[JCarrill0]

First, what service are you using to play?

If Prime406 would like to play with me sometime I enjoy teaching people about my map. I was not surprised TaShadan won, I'm not sure I've ever beat him.

Why no Lost?

There was no lag in the replay but I could tell based on the chat it was when the Huntress used her ultimate. I will look into it before I release an update this week.

Would any of you be available for a game Friday or Saturday?

Do you have any comments about unit balance? I noticed no one pulled sea units either.

Unit balance seemed fine, TaShadan used his hero very well, the 3rd player was Death adder here at THW, we were using ENT host bot from makemhost on Bnet servers, I was on Lordaeron, and they were on Northrend (I believe), We all used skype to chat before and after the game. I think we were all random TBH.

 

[Remixer]

So you are not going to update Severed Isles? (That's what I named it)

 

[JCarrill0]

So you are not going to update Severed Isles? (That's what I named it)

he updated the 3 map a few days ago, the rest of the other maps are out dated and no longer planned on being used

 

[Kam]

So you are not going to update Severed Isles? (That's what I named it)

Severed Isles served as inspiration for Typhoon. I've been learning about melee terrain design and I believe the current three maps are well balanced and interesting to play on.

I would like to work on a 1v1 city tileset, likely Dalaran Ruins, next.

 

[JCarrill0]

Severed Isles served as inspiration for Typhoon. I've been learning about melee terrain design and I believe the current three maps are well balanced and interesting to play on.

I would like to work on a 1v1 city tileset, likely Dalaran Ruins, next.

I look forward to it!

 

[Kam]

Preview of Ruined Lock.

 

[Heinvers]

Cool layout Kam.

 

[JCarrill0]

Very Interesting, I had to double check because it's looking a bit like sc2.

 

[Remixer]

Preview of Ruined Lock.

Avoiding bridges is mostly a good idea.

 

[Kam]

Cool layout Kam.

Thank you. I've been wanting to do a city tileset for a long time. The concept is a long forgotten lock and dam system.

Very Interesting, I had to double check because it's looking a bit like sc2.

I realized as I was making it that it looked a lot like the SC2 space maps. It was a challenge to balance a map like this for sea combat.

Avoiding bridges is mostly a good idea.

Yes they are a pain mainly because they do not allow sea units to pass under. It is possible to make such a bridge using doodads and invisible platforms but then you can't see what's going on under the bridge.


Do you have any critiques or questions about why I made certain decisions? Just so you know the large circular pool in the north is meant to be deep water as well.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Preview of Ruined Lock.

Thank you. I've been wanting to do a city tileset for a long time. The concept is a long forgotten lock and dam system.

Do you have any critiques or questions about why I made certain decisions? Just so you know the large circular pool in the north is meant to be deep water as well.

Fascinating. At first I thought you had misspelled the Scottish "Loch" (i.e. 'lake'), but after your second post, I realized my error.

That being said, really interesting idea; a dam system like in the Netherlands, with the raising & lowering of water levels & what-not. Coolio.

Thoughts:
- Where's the Lumber?
- Why isn't that little tongue of tileset (dark-purple) on the mid-left side mirrored on the far-right (note: I recognize not everything must be mirrored, but...)
- You're the man. : ) Keep on being an inspiration to the rest of us who need to get off our duffs and finish our mods.

 

[Kam]

Fascinating. At first I thought you had misspelled the Scottish "Loch" (i.e. 'lake'), but after your second post, I realized my error.

That being said, really interesting idea; a dam system like in the Netherlands, with the raising & lowering of water levels & what-not. Coolio.

Thoughts:
- Where's the Lumber?
- Why isn't that little tongue of tileset (dark-purple) on the mid-left side mirrored on the far-right (note: I recognize not everything must be mirrored, but...)
- You're the man. : ) Keep on being an inspiration to the rest of us who need to get off our duffs and finish our mods.

Thank you for your support! I had made some more progress prior to reading this and I think the new screenshot answers your questions.

 

[Remixer]

As soon as you are finished with the terrain you can contact me i can give you feedback (however I am back home 30th day so not before that (except with screenies).

 

[Kyrbi0]

Thank you for your support! I had made some more progress prior to reading this and I think the new screenshot answers your questions.

Ah, much better (a "WIP" on the previous one probably would've helped... ). I like utilitarian (the locks) mixed with the lush (the trees & grass).

 

[Kam]

Ah, much better (a "WIP" on the previous one probably would've helped... ). I like utilitarian (the locks) mixed with the lush (the trees & grass).

I'm not sure what to do with the two large center land masses. I divided each one with a 1 level cliff but I don't think it's diverse enough to be fun in combat.

EDIT: Terrain is substantially complete.

 

[Aisha Mizuki]

Look like i gonna try this map ^O^
Awersome game Kam （ゝ。∂）

please keep it up

 

[Remixer]

I'm not sure what to do with the two large center land masses. I divided each one with a 1 level cliff but I don't think it's diverse enough to be fun in combat.

EDIT: Terrain is substantially complete.

I give you some feedback based on the picture:

1. The fall grass mixed with two summer grasses does not look pleasing.
2. Natural rocks next to city cliff walls are out of place, I'd recommend you to find alternative solution. Maybe replacing rubble texture.
3. In the middle of the map there is this white tile figurine, it is not symmetric. Caught my eye as the image is take from above.
4. There could be more wood around expansions, as well the forests in the main bases are based inconveniently. (Not sure if it matters so much though.)
5. You might want to darken down the whitish structures and doodads as well as the gold mines as they really pop out harshly.
6. Make sure to use raise/lower/smooth tool around the shallow water areas.
7. To my eyes the ground rubbles (Doodads>Cliffs) look ugly (Never personally liked them). However if you want to use them I'd recommend to use them around the map instead of just few places. (In this map I find it hard to find a place where you could actually place them. But try at the shallow water areas.)

Oki, so I think that was pretty much all I could recognise from this picture. So you got lay out pretty much ready and figured how the map would look so now just minor fixes (Some pointed out above.) if you wish to do so and then it's time for environmental decoration. :>

About the center problem you mentioned: I agree the cliffs look inconvenient. So you could think of alternative solutions. Personally I'd go with some town thingies (with walls) or alternative a bit more creative: hostile outlaw camps (f.e. bandits or some humanoid races that fight and "build base" or something around there).

 

[Heinvers]

Pretty.

 

[Kam]

I give you some feedback based on the picture:

1. The fall grass mixed with two summer grasses does not look pleasing.
2. Natural rocks next to city cliff walls are out of place, I'd recommend you to find alternative solution. Maybe replacing rubble texture.
3. In the middle of the map there is this white tile figurine, it is not symmetric. Caught my eye as the image is take from above.
4. There could be more wood around expansions, as well the forests in the main bases are based inconveniently. (Not sure if it matters so much though.)
5. You might want to darken down the whitish structures and doodads as well as the gold mines as they really pop out harshly.
6. Make sure to use raise/lower/smooth tool around the shallow water areas.
7. To my eyes the ground rubbles (Doodads>Cliffs) look ugly (Never personally liked them). However if you want to use them I'd recommend to use them around the map instead of just few places. (In this map I find it hard to find a place where you could actually place them. But try at the shallow water areas.)

Oki, so I think that was pretty much all I could recognise from this picture. So you got lay out pretty much ready and figured how the map would look so now just minor fixes (Some pointed out above.) if you wish to do so and then it's time for environmental decoration. :>

About the center problem you mentioned: I agree the cliffs look inconvenient. So you could think of alternative solutions. Personally I'd go with some town thingies (with walls) or alternative a bit more creative: hostile outlaw camps (f.e. bandits or some humanoid races that fight and "build base" or something around there).

It's hard to find doodads for Dalaran ruins, the set given in WE is mostly reused from other tilesets. There aren't any destroyed statues, etc specific to this DR. The ruined ground textures look better when you're in game view. I wanted to emphasize that the walls of this lock have been neglected. One issue I have with the Blizzard cliffs is when you do a ramp on a diagonal into shallow water there are triangles of water. I'll probably attempt t hide this with debris in the water (boxes, dark lily pads, etc).

Pretty.

Thank you.

 

[Remixer]

All water issues can be solved.No need to use doodads I think.

 

[Kam]

All water issues can be solved.No need to use doodads I think.

How?

 

[Remixer]

I need to think about this issue specifically. However I think you might be able to get the wanted resource by changing cliff levels and switching "Enforced Water"- something on and off as you place new cliffs/water at the certain area.

 

[Kam]

This is about done now. It will be included in the next update.

Edit:

In addition to the new map I have a significant announcement. I am considering the Naga as a 4th race. I've added a screenshot of the current tech tree. What are your thoughts on this?

The turtle will use this system: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-a-202320/?prev=search=naga&d=list&r=20&mmr=4

My design idea for them is a magic disruption spell set. Everything is WIP right now but there is a chance the first few units could be in the next update.

 

[Remixer]

Can you send me tha map so I can check it? (Terrain)

 

[Kam]

Can you send me tha map so I can check it? (Terrain)

I will tonight, I'm away from my computer right now.

Any thoughts on the Naga?

 

[Even]

Another race would be awesome, especially a naga one... You know how much we love those amphibians XD

 

[Remixer]

Naga as a race is pretty solid, I think however that it might be too over used. You have to make sure you make an unique naga race. Also nagas are pretty easy to place to various areas, though there are some environments that they do not fit.

 

[Kam]

Naga as a race is pretty solid, I think however that it might be too over used. You have to make sure you make an unique naga race. Also nagas are pretty easy to place to various areas, though there are some environments that they do not fit.

My greatest concern with them is making sure they are unique and well developed. As you can see I have already started working with an old UI by unwirklich. They already fit well into the lore of my map. All units will be amphibious so they play into the sea unit aspect. I would love spell ideas.

 

[TaShadan]

Naga is a great idea Fits the naval combat style too!

 

[MogulKahn]

Naga as race are overused, but if you have some unique idea, go for it, after all your map is based around naval combat. But from those pictures, I am not that impressed whit those models.. I think there is 10x better models on this site, than those that you used.

 

[Kam]

Naga as race are overused, but if you have some unique idea, go for it, after all your map is based around naval combat. But from those pictures, I am not that impressed whit those models.. I think there is 10x better models on this site, than those that you used.

I've attached the current unit pool.

Any model that is chosen must have swim animations.
I have a strict KB restriction that I'm adhering too.

Which models were you referring to?

 

[MogulKahn]

Wind Rider skin is the worst for me... I really don't know why, but I just don't like it. Hmm, I am pretty sure that I saw some other models in your last pic, ugly pink? naga siren, that floating thing as a hero, and few more, I can't recall now... Btw, where did you find that turtle model, it is badass?!

 

[Kam]

It was in my models folder. There was no source file. A quick search showed me it's used in Power of Corruption though.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Not bad, not bad... Where'd you get that fancy Naga UI?

I disagree with Sea Giants & Lobstrokk out of principle, but meh. That "Sealed Python", while cool, does seem a bit odd... But hey.

And man! Thanks for pointing out that Slave Wagon code. That's a great idea for something.

 

[Kam]

Not bad, not bad... Where'd you get that fancy Naga UI?

I disagree with Sea Giants & Lobstrokk out of principle, but meh. That "Sealed Python", while cool, does seem a bit odd... But hey.

And man! Thanks for pointing out that Slave Wagon code. That's a great idea for something.

While searching the depths of internet for custom UI's I found a post from unwirklich many years ago where he attached a WIP. I contacted him on DA and after not hearing from him I spent a day in Photoshop and got it looking complete.

As far as unit models there is a serious lack of Naga unit models with proper animations and of decent quality.

 

[Remixer]

While searching the depths of internet for custom UI's I found a post from unwirklich many years ago where he attached a WIP. I contacted him on DA and after not hearing from him I spent a day in Photoshop and got it looking complete.

Apparently (in the screenshot) it's still missing empty inventory part.

 

[Kyrbi0]

While searching the depths of internet for custom UI's I found a post from unwirklich many years ago where he attached a WIP. I contacted him on DA and after not hearing from him I spent a day in Photoshop and got it looking complete.

Oooh, that's right... Can has?

As far as unit models there is a serious lack of Naga unit models with proper animations and of decent quality.

While I agree that the "right" models may not be there (i.e. ideally one would come up with ideas, then find art to match, not the other way around), I would be hard-pressed to agree that there aren't enough Naga models, nor of high enough quality. If anything, too many, and many that are too high quality. You have seen all of Jigrael's work, right? Medusa, Incursor, Royal Guard (v1 & v2), Naga War Queen (ok, that one's a bit wonky), Tridentyr...

With another Murgul or two, a Siege Engine of sorts, that's 4-5... the Myrmidon, Coautl, Siren, Snap Dragon & Dragon Turtle are another 5... So that leaves 2-3 to find (and if one of those is the (campaign) Summoner &/or Royal Guard (depending on which Hero model you used), well then...), including the likelihood of some "big T3OD Dragon"-type unit. So missing models are, like, 1-2, maybe?

(again, not all of those models you may agree with; personally I love both the Medusa & Tridentyr, but they don't fit 'my vision' so I won't be using them. Still, they are there).

 

[Kam]

What I feel is missing is a secondary magic unit model, and something I can use for the Naga experimental unit.

As far as ideas go the majority of this was designed long ago before I had any models other than Blizzard's.

I attached the edited images of the UI.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ah. Well personally, I'm almost entirely sold on the Summoner (my only issue is how similar it is to the Siren... But the color differences help, makes it like the Myrmidon <-> Royal Guard to me; maybe change her weapon?). But yes, I understand the "race design before models were available" bit. My Trolls suffered from that for a while.

Many thanks for the snazzy UI. May your goats have multitudinous offspring, and your cheese ever-ripen.

 

[Remixer]

What I feel is missing is a secondary magic unit model, and something I can use for the Naga experimental unit.

As far as ideas go the majority of this was designed long ago before I had any models other than Blizzard's.

I attached the edited images of the UI.

So you should think of alternative units whom fit to the sea:

1. Turtles
2. Crabs
3. Mur'guls & Murlocs
4. Sea Giants
5. Sea Revenants
6. Think of something that could do as some kind of spectre or ghost that fit to the sea.
7. Water Elementals
8. Serpents

Remember that you can make pretty marvellous looking units by using special effects and visual effects on them just add the effects via passive item abilities which have no statistic effect nor icon.