[Role Playing Game] Acheron

[icekid2007]

Take your time @AP, good luck )

 

[Vinz]

Wait, does 0-0 not work? (Base Attack Damage)

 

[APproject]

Thanks, icekid.

No, then attack is disabled even if bonus damage is acquired.

 

[APproject]

August is almost here so more time for the project. Here is the WIP of vendor / shop menu, will reveal how it works after next WIP image, nothing complex, can be already predicted easily.

Vendor WIP

 

[Heinvers]

That's pretty elegant yet simple. Gj man.

 

[Chaosy]

Sweet looking stuff.

 

[APproject]

Thanks.

I decided not to release the map in Alpha and Beta stages before general release, I will release full version instead as with my all projects, because those stages just brings up troubles and unnecessary problems. I will try to make the game short and replayable at least 3 times as 3 difficulty modes may bring up different experience.

 

[Heinvers]

Great choice man. Keep on mapping btw

 

[Vinz]

Agreed, we can comment on the visuals anyway. It's better to release more complete versions.

 

[Chaosy]

You really need some new mechanics for each difficulty if you want to make it replayable 3 times.

 

[APproject]

Yeah, I will try to bring up slightly different game with each difficulty and not just a rise in numbers. Basically, first easy mode will be very limited with items, limited with talent points and you will be able to acquire only half of everything, because more would not be needed. In other difficulties more and stronger creeps will appear that means more points in all aspects and hero will grow much faster. Difficulty might bring more boss fights, more complex puzzles and everything different in a slight way.

 

[Chaosy]

Actually I would disable all those sweet 'advanced' features in 'easy' mode. Because easy should be.. easy. That will add something motivating for 'normal' mode too. 'Hard' mode is a little harder to think of something unique for though. Maybe.. only enable 'dungeons' or something like that in hard mode.

Because as you said, you can't just change the numbers. Blizzard did that in WoW and we all know how that went. *cough* LFR *cough*

 

[APproject]

An idea that might motivate players just popped in my mind after reading your comment. Perhaps I should limit how much of map you can play on certain mode. For example, in easy mode you are stopped at certain part and you are forced to play on another mode in order to go further, because game ends there. And only the third mode can lead to the end of the story. Because on easy mode you will be able to go through story very quickly and retrying the game with slightly other features, but the same story, might be boring at some aspect.

 

[Chaosy]

You could also divide your map into three parts, completely isolated from each other. You could name them act 1 / 2 / 3.

Act 1 equals easy mode and the difficulty increases for each part as well as the amount of features added.

However this wouldn't solve the original problem, the replayability. Something you COULD do though would be to make both quests and units randomly generated. (a part from those lore bosses for example.) This could include:
1. each mob location can have a random set of mobs with the same stats. (wolf, bear and boar for example)
2. each optional quest could be randomized between a few quests.
3. something that would be truly epic would be to randomize the terrain a little. I know this would be impossible with the quality of terrain you provide. However, if you could replace stuff with recolored edits.. like an ice place could turn into a fire place. If you managed to do this for a few areas they would seem to be completely fresh.

edit: I actually got tons of inspiration of the third idea of mine, off to testing it is!

 

[APproject]

It will be divided in 3 parts indeed. At start game will take place at Erebus, then at Asphodel Meadows and lastly at Tartarus. Generating mobs would threaten the balance and generating terrain with quests would take tremendous amount of time to do, so I would rather add something to what already existed on previous difficulty. Those ideas surely would do lots of good, but it is just too much for me to handle. +

EDIT: Since no Alpha Beta versions, here is the full talent tree.

Talent Tree Full

 

[Heinvers]

Awesome stuff

 

[A Void]

It will be divided in 3 parts indeed. At start game will take place at Erebus, then at Asphodel Meadows and lastly at Tartarus. Generating mobs would threaten the balance and generating terrain with quests would take tremendous amount of time to do, so I would rather add something to what already existed on previous difficulty. Those ideas surely would do lots of good, but it is just too much for me to handle. +

EDIT: Since no Alpha Beta versions, here is the full talent tree.

Talent Tree Full

You should fill up the black background in the talent tree, I just don't understand why people always make it black? There are many ways on how to fill up the blackness with some other image.

 

[GunSlinger]

Subbing for awesomesauce.

Loved Iceborn and am eagerly waiting for this.
Good luck bro!

 

[Vinz]

You should fill up the black background in the talent tree, I just don't understand why people always make it black? There are many ways on how to fill up the blackness with some other image.

The attention will be then drawn from the actual tree to the background.

 

[Heinvers]

You should fill up the black background in the talent tree, I just don't understand why people always make it black? There are many ways on how to fill up the blackness with some other image.

Because the background is not the focus here :O

 

[A Void]

The attention will be then drawn from the actual tree to the background.

No it wont, take for example Diablo 3, World of WarCraft and many countless other games.

 

[GunSlinger]

The attention will be then drawn from the actual tree to the background.

Why do they call it a skill "tree"? Looks more like skill "root" to me.
It would've been a tree if it branched in the opposite direction

 

[Heinvers]

Why do they call it a skill "tree"? Looks more like skill "root" to me.
It would've been a tree if it branched in the opposite direction

Off topic. The world doesn't make sense sometimes

 

[GunSlinger]

Off topic. The world doesn't make sense sometimes

Sorry about that. Still, it's kinda weird.
I gotta ask, will the gameplay be like diablo?
You know, kill baddies, get random loot.

 

[A Void]

Why do they call it a skill "tree"? Looks more like skill "root" to me.
It would've been a tree if it branched in the opposite direction

Because it represents a wide selection of choices just like many leaves on the trees. Each branch has leaves just as each selection box has many choices (buttons). It all makes sense.

 

[APproject]

@GunSlinger
Thanks. It is just more convenient going from up to down, just like writing the text, you go down, not up. And it doesn't represent a tree, it doesn't have leaves, branches, a stem, it is not a tree, it is symbolism.

I don't know about diablo, never played it though, but probably yeah, ordinary RPG. Since this is single player, random chance to drop items is silly, because I can save and keep trying forever until I get the best loot. There will be hidden stuff, some puzzles to get the loot, but not vital for easier difficulty. However, there will be a drop based on chance. The chance will be determined at the very start of the game when you select the game mode difficulty, selection determines the chance to drop and decides what items will be dropped in the future, so it will be decided at start and save - load abuse might not work.

@A Void
Talent tree already has images and background is really minor, just few slim edges, so I don't really see a point in covering it with another picture you will not be able to see, but small edges. As for three bottom windows, there will be text and I don't want the text to merge with picture, it should be clear and stand out.

***

Here is almost complete Vendor / shop menu. As Void insisted, pictures remains to be added, also costs for remaining items. It all might change within time. When certain Soulrank (Level) is acquired, certain column with items will be revealed, rest stays hidden until certain level is gained. When item is bought, it disappears. Empty black window is for the description of items, it will appear when item is selected. Another window with Misc items may have unlimited count to be bought, there level is not required, you may buy levels, talent points, skill points, transfer one property to another, etc. Cost of those will be appear to the right once item is selected, cost might vary depending on the level though.

Vendor WIP

 

[A Void]

@GunSlinger
Thanks. It is just more convenient going from up to down, just like writing the text, you go down, not up. And it doesn't represent a tree, it doesn't have leaves, branches, a stem, it is not a tree, it is symbolism.

I don't know about diablo, never played it though, but probably yeah, ordinary RPG. Since this is single player, random chance to drop items is silly, because I can save and keep trying forever until I get the best loot. There will be hidden stuff, some puzzles to get the loot, but not vital for easier difficulty. However, there will be a drop based on chance. The chance will be determined at the very start of the game when you select the game mode difficulty, selection determines the chance to drop and decides what items will be dropped in the future, so it will be decided at start and save - load abuse might not work.

@A Void
Talent tree already has images and background is really minor, just few slim edges, so I don't really see a point in covering it with another picture you will not be able to see, but small edges. As for three bottom windows, there will be text and I don't want the text to merge with picture, it should be clear and stand out.

***

Here is almost complete Vendor / shop menu. As Void insisted, pictures remains to be added, also costs for remaining items. It all might change within time. When certain Soulrank (Level) is acquired, certain column with items will be revealed, rest stays hidden until certain level is gained. When item is bought, it disappears. Empty black window is for the description of items, it will appear when item is selected. Another window with Misc items may have unlimited count to be bought, there level is not required, you may buy levels, talent points, skill points, transfer one property to another, etc. Cost of those will be appear to the right once item is selected, cost might vary depending on the level though.

Vendor WIP

The background, you should add two or 1 colored background image that doesn't take too much attention. Random drop increases repeatability, I fear this will be a 1-time play- if you don't include it. And a little suggestion to use custom borders, Warcraft III borders are overused too much, Button Manager is an excellent program that can help you out.

 

[Vinz]

Gold and Silver coins are overused too much. Souls are something new and unique to the game's theme.

I think the simplicity of the background is okay.

Random Drop is one thing that you should add, however.

 

[APproject]

Map itself is dark themed so a colored background of entire menu wouldn't make it so. Little edges of background really doesn't yell for a color, I guess we have totally different view on the matter.

As I said, there will be random drop, but the drop will be decided at the start of the game, so that you could not save - load abuse. Drop of certain items will be decided by chance at the beginning depending on the difficulty, but not in the long run of the game. So why would it matter, it is still decided by chance, just at start, difference is you could not save before opening the chest, and retry many times until the best drop, because only one item will be dropped that has been decided by probability at start.

Replayability will be determined by difficulty, there will be 3 difficulties and all slightly different, I have discussed about it some posts ago with Chaosy. Harder difficulty, more and different items, more levels, more of the game, different puzzles, boss fights, everything slightly different. Probably you will not be able to complete the full map if not playing on the hardest, I am still thinking about this option. Also, 3 long talent tree specs and up to 100+ of custom items in total would surely bring decision based experience, so when replaying you wouldn't need to repeat the same build. I think this is decent enough as for a single player map. Aww, I just dealt with icons / skins and it took me plenty of hours of dirty work, I guess will keep those borders, nothing major.

 

[A Void]

Map itself is dark themed so a colored background of entire menu wouldn't make it so. Little edges of background really doesn't yell for a color, I guess we have totally different view on the matter.

As I said, there will be random drop, but the drop will be decided at the start of the game, so that you could not save - load abuse. Drop of certain items will be decided by chance at the beginning depending on the difficulty, but not in the long run of the game. So why would it matter, it is still decided by chance, just at start, difference is you could not save before opening the chest, and retry many times until the best drop, because only one item will be dropped that has been decided by probability at start.

Replayability will be determined by difficulty, there will be 3 difficulties and all slightly different, I have discussed about it some posts ago with Chaosy. Harder difficulty, more and different items, more levels, more of the game, different puzzles, boss fights, everything slightly different. Probably you will not be able to complete the full map if not playing on the hardest, I am still thinking about this option. Also, 3 long talent tree specs and up to 100+ of custom items in total would surely bring decision based experience, so when replaying you wouldn't need to repeat the same build. I think this is decent enough as for a single player map. Aww, I just dealt with icons / skins and it took me plenty of hours of dirty work, I guess will keep those borders, nothing major.

A question: how many of attribute stats will there be and what will they be named? Ex: Str, Agi, Int.

Off-Topic: if you still havent found a female voice actor, I suggest you to use computerized text to voice online program that will convert text to audio.

 

[APproject]

There will be only three, because I want them visible on hero stats window when selected. It will be Endurance, Protection and Willpower.

Each point of endurance increase health regeneration by 0.5 point per second and critical strike chance of physical attacks (melee and abilities' physical attacks) by 1%.

Each point of protection increase defense points by 0.5, increase attack and walk speeds and increase the chance to dodge an attack by 1%.

Each point of willpower increase mana regeneration by 0.5 point per second and increase the chance to do a critical strike with spell damage by 1%.

It is basic, but with addition of percentage abilities. Talent tree will open many ways of improving through these three attributes, for example, deal certain spell damage to enemies once you dodge their attack. So it is already calling for building spell damage as well as dodge rate. I will try my best to mix those up, so more builds could be taken into consideration.

I already found a female voice actor, will see how it will turn out. I've seen maps with computerized female voice, it was awful, robotic and toneless, I would rather keep it silent than ruin it with that, hehe.

 

[A Void]

There will be only three, because I want them visible on hero stats window when selected. It will be Endurance, Protection and Willpower.

Each point of endurance increase health regeneration by 0.5 point per second and critical strike chance of physical attacks (melee and abilities' physical attacks) by 1%.

Each point of protection increase defense points by 0.5, increase attack and walk speeds and increase the chance to dodge an attack by 1%

Each point of willpower increase mana regeneration by 0.5 point per second and increase the chance to do a critical strike with spell damage by 1%.

It is basic, but with addition of percentage abilities. Talent tree will open many ways of improving through these three attributes, for example, deal certain spell damage to enemies once you dodge their attack. So it is alrrady calling for building spell damage as well as dodge rate. I will try my best to mix those up, so more builds could be taken into consideration.

I already found a female voice actor, will see how it will turn up. I've seen maps with computerized female voice, it was awful, robotic and toneless, I would rather keep it dilent than ruin it with that, hehe.

Hero stats window can be edited, there is a .pdf file inside UI folder of War3.mpq. You can edit the .pdf file using NotePad or Notepad++.

Glad to hear that you found a voice actor already. BTW: I am searching for a way to complie the entire project into an .exe that will run your map without the need of Warcraft 3. Self-Executing .Exe that has the command to load the map with War3.exe. Tough I am testing this method, it should work.

 

[APproject]

But I would need to make it active, for example, Luck attribute will be having points, would it make it possible to display points just as for the other three attributes? Would it be able to edit that attribute through triggers? I haven't heard anything about this, so not sure how its mechanics works.

Sounds like a cool idea, something like Test Map button in the Editor.

I am facing texture problems. The quality of texture for talent tree and vendor menus is really good in the Editor, but ingame it look terribly blurry even though video options are maxed. It looks really bad in comparison to Editor.

 

[A Void]

But I would need to make it active, for example, Luck attribute will be having points, would it make it possible to display points just as for the other three attributes? Would it be able to edit that attribute through triggers? I haven't heard anything about this, so not sure how its mechanics works.

Sounds like a cool idea, something like Test Map button in the Editor.

I am facing texture problems. The quality of texture for talent tree and vendor menus is really good in the Editor, but ingame it look terribly blurry even though video options are maxed. It looks really bad in comparison to Editor.

For custom attributes you would need to use Jass in the trigger editor. As for the textures, can you give me a bit of comparison screen-shot? Warcraft 3 uses DirectX in-game as well as other important graphical changes that are not present in the editor. The editor doesn't use all of the graphics that in-game presents. Texture limit is also 512 x 512, if you use higher than that then the game will auto resize and stretch it back to 512.

 

[Vinz]

What native uses custom attributes?

 

[Heinvers]

That Vendor interface looks cool.

 

[APproject]

Ah, I have no knowledge of Jass, so I guess I will stay with three.

Oh... I opened the game through WC3, because I couldn't make a screenshot when game is started through Editor, and textures are perfect, high quality. Obviously when game is started with Test Map function, those textures becomes terrible, but when started normally through WC3, textures are as good as in editor. Phew..

Thanks, Heinvers.

What do you mean, Cakeman?

 

[Vinz]

A Void mentioned using JASS for custom attributes.

 

[muzzel]

Ah i was wondering too, but i guess Cake is refering to this:

For custom attributes you would need to use Jass in the trigger editor.

But there is no native for custom attributes, and its incorrect that you need jass for it.

 

[Solu9]

There is no reason to use Jass for custom attributes. Jass may make it easier, I have no idea, but GUI works just fine for that. I never use Jass and I have made tons of custom attribute systems.

 

[Vinz]

We were talking about attributes alongside Strength, Agility and Intelligence.

 

[muzzel]

We were too. Still no need for jass, and there is still no native.

 

[APproject]

Custom attributes needs to be displayed right here:

You were talking about this?

 

[Solu9]

Custom attributes needs to be displayed right here:

You were talking about this?

Ah. I've always just used a custom display for attributes. The default one is so god damn limited.

 

[Vinz]

We were too. Still no need for jass, and there is still no native.

I replied to Solu. ;_;

 

[muzzel]

I replied to Solu. ;_;

i know, what he said is still correct

 

[APproject]

Alright, I decided to make the most of the drop by chance, I still don't know if people might not abuse save/load, but it really opens more ways of exploring the map. Changed my mind after reading this article.

EDIT: I just checked what kind of integer is being generated, it is ALWAYS 43 between 1 and 100, I replayed hundred of times, RANDOM integer is always set to 43 when it is generated at the start of the game. That's extremely stupid, how is it random? I understand that random number doesn't exist, it is generated by formula each time, but once game starts every time it is generated 43, so only one drop is possible. Is there a way to generate random number so that it would be different every time I replay? I guess I will have to periodically set random integer every 0.1 second to base it on time.

 

[laserdemon]

If the boss will be revived then it's ok, but I think the bosses in your map won't, that means we can't get the drop forever if our luck is bad? We have to replay the whole game and watch the unskippable cinematography again in order to get the item? Furthermore, how could we know whether which drop we are supposed to get?

 

[APproject]

I am thinking about boss reviving system, for example, you can revive it several times and each time it will be stronger, more loot. And I am not making it completely luck based, because there will be 3 major item types, each type will have 5 of its versions and every version 4 levels, so on easy difficulty, bigger chance to drop level 1, on hard mode it doesn't drop level 1 at all and has a small chance to drop level 2. It will be possible to save before the drop and load over and over, but that would be game mechanics abuse, so player should be fine without abusing save/load. However, on hard mode getting level 2 pieces instead of level 4, would be unfortunate, yet higher level would give just a slight edge, not a vast difference. I decided not to rise all those numbers to infinity like in Iceborn, because it makes no sense, since Hero grows, enemies grows in numbers too, so it is still equalized, just a slight edge will be given throughout the game. And cinematics will be skippable, so it is in Iceborn, at least in later versions.

 

[Chaosy]

Add a sweet background image for the shop.

*golum voice*

We wantsss it, we needsss it.