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WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

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Really? Sorry, I guess my internet's a bit bad these days, I couldn't seem to receive it...
But anyways it's alright, good luck to the current testers(:
 
looks a bit like Company of Heroes (I like that game). Seems pretty realistic.
Just looks awesome to me. I'd like to test this out... (Can I download It somewhere?)

Anyway keep up the good work
 
Finny! Would you be adding some random events in updates like riots and strikes (Which lower economy/income) due to social unrest? It'd really be interesting to see that you'd have to take care of both the civil wars and international affairs at the same time. That way, players would actually think before they start spamming just troops.
 
Here are some of the updates i made as a result of this beta test (note that i might have forgotten to write some things). Please let me know if there was something else you noticed that you wanted to have changed.

UPDATES:

*Greately decreased repair speed by mechanics (by about 5 times). They can now not be used offensively to make your tanks invincible.

*Added proper mechanic icon to the british/american engineers overhead.

*Reduced splash and target damage of the flamethrower. Also slightly reduced range and increased oil cost.
Later, i might consider making "shock" damage (that of flamethrowers) more effective against buildings and slightly less against infantry.

*Buffed initial defenses for the italians. They now also have more units present in africa, aswell as a transport in rome to give them the option of moving troops down to africa if they want to go "all in" there.

*Added an extra bridge across the donau, around the areas of present Slovenia.

*Increased oil upkeep cost for all vehicles. Hopefully, you will now no longer have huge oil reserves lying around.

UPDATES TO COME:

*We will implement a way to tribute cities to your allies. This will happen through a certain unit (owned by the player beign tributed to) having to move to the city and claim it. Tributing cities will increase the targets relation towards you.

*It will be easier to increase standings towards other nations through different means. The rate at which relations improve during alliances will also be increased.

and more to come...
Click to expand...
 
Miss_Foxy said:
Finny! Would you be adding some random events in updates like riots and strikes (Which lower economy/income) due to social unrest? It'd really be interesting to see that you'd have to take care of both the civil wars and international affairs at the same time. That way, players would actually think before they start spamming just troops.
Click to expand...

You really wouldn't have time to handle random events and WiF it self isn't really made in a such way that such events would be fun or even close to realistic. Theres already the diplomacy, war.. and war.
 
Will there a way to gain oil even if all the reserves are depleted?
Hmm... The tank invincibility thing seems kinda buffed, how about a way mechanics can sabotage other vehicles by making them unrepairable?
Does the trading option with other countries include trading for oil at a certain rate?
 
Because germany has the jagdpanther and the tiger :)
Quite frankly, it is because finland got all it's military equipment from germany, and we wanted some variation between the factions (and vuorma wanted to use his stug ;).
Germany can't have both the stug and the jagdpanther since they have the same role.

EDIT: @Miss_Foxy: i think you have misunderstood lots of stuff here.
Oil is an undepletable resource, when i was talking about oil reserves i meant oil resources stacking up for each player - them making more than they could spend, so to say.
Also, i DID nerf the whole repair-until-invincible thing, by simply reducing the repair rate. Now, you will want to pull tanks away from the front and leave them with a mechanic to let them slowly repair, rather than having them insta-repaired at the front during combat.

And finally, it is possible that trading benefits would be based on the resources held by the player you are trading with; perhaps you can get, say, 5% of the total oil and gold income of a player each transport that reaches port? Just an idea.
 
That sounds like a great idea Fin, that way it'll add to the realism and allow players to think a little before starting a full waged war against everyone.
Hmm... Is there a way for an assassination of the minister of defense or president or something, even without the 'Minister' or 'President' unit itself? Like, when some specific event happens and unit uses a certain ability on a one-of-a-kind building of the enemy, they'd have a chance of assassination and might get some benefits?
I'm really sorry if the idea's dumb, please pardon me...
 
Its good with some variation but i cant compare the jagdpanther with stug III. Ive looked on their stats and they are almost the same, aint so big diffrent with dmg, armor and health. But thats just minor things :)

And another thing i notice the M18 Hellcat have 85 in speed, i dont know how fast that is in wc3 but the M18 Hellcat was the fastest tank in WW2 and could almost reach 100 km/h.
 
Hmm... In Warcraft III, maybe it could have about 95 at max, since the terrain is scaled down and it'll be too fast if it really looked 'fast'.
 
Svenska_0rmen said:
Its good with some variation but i cant compare the jagdpanther with stug III. Ive looked on their stats and they are almost the same, aint so big diffrent with dmg, armor and health. But thats just minor things :)

And another thing i notice the M18 Hellcat have 85 in speed, i dont know how fast that is in wc3 but the M18 Hellcat was the fastest tank in WW2 and could almost reach 100 km/h.
Click to expand...

Well thing is as said we need variation and not an exact copy of Germany but to make all nations unique. Fact is that the "Sturmi" is the most commonly known tank used by the finns and also the most modern vehicle they had. Finland lost 8 StuGs but had destroyed 87 Soviet tanks as well a uncounted amount of anti-tank guns by the end of the war.
We are aware of the M18 situation and thats also why it is the fastests of all tank destroyers in the game. For example the T-26 tank could go highest around ~30km/h but is still among the fastest in the game in order to fit it for the light tank role.

Balance and enjoyability over realism, aye?!
 
Would there be some graphical details on them which will let players know that they move slower? (Like being slightly fatter than the rest)

PS: Oh, about that unfinished mechanics section in your forum, what did you mean by the unfinished text over there saying how French had a positive K/D, etc?
 
Miss_Foxy said:
Would there be some graphical details on them which will let players know that they move slower? (Like being slightly fatter than the rest)

PS: Oh, about that unfinished mechanics section in your forum, what did you mean by the unfinished text over there saying how French had a positive K/D, etc?
Click to expand...

All units' models are made after how they actually looked at the time, so the Tiger tank for example which is very slow is also very fat yes :grin:

Oh this?
http://worldinflames.se/combatmechanics.php
It's the default 404 error page error (whenever your client tries to request a page which does not exist).

Hugomath said:
What's the attack range of battleships?
Click to expand...

Sorry for having this ignored, 600.
 
You need to know many aspects of WWII to get these jokes.

Predictable Causes:
German engineers managed to produce a repair-able machine. -> Most of German tanks and stuff were like condoms... or syringes, you could repair and use them again but mostly, their quality was awful, and most of their stuff standed for really heavy crap which was hard to repair.

Russian troops received a positive K/D ratio. -> Soviet army had most casaulties amongst soldiers in WWII, comparing to German army which they fought against.

The Italian army won a battle all solo. -> Italian army even failed to conquer some poor African countries, they had to use tanks to threat people...

Japanese pilots put their seatbelts on. -> They were suiciders, mostly.

USA failed in stealing the kill -> This one I don't really get, well I take it as USA entered the battles and (tbh) did nothing but claiming victories... which is kinda true.

Well, that's My personal opinion about these jokes.
 
PastTime said:
You need to know many aspects of WWII to get these jokes.

Predictable Causes:
German engineers managed to produce a repair-able machine. -> Most of German tanks and stuff were like condoms... or syringes, you could repair and use them again but mostly, their quality was awful, and most of their stuff standed for really heavy crap which was hard to repair.

Russian troops received a positive K/D ratio. -> Soviet army had most casaulties amongst soldiers in WWII, comparing to German army which they fought against.

The Italian army won a battle all solo. -> Italian army even failed to conquer some poor African countries, they had to use tanks to threat people...

Japanese pilots put their seatbelts on. -> They were suiciders, mostly.

USA failed in stealing the kill -> This one I don't really get, well I take it as USA entered the battles and (tbh) did nothing but claiming victories... which is kinda true.

Well, that's My personal opinion about these jokes.
Click to expand...

Opinion approved!
 
@PastTime: about the americans, they completely refused to join the war until the very end, in 1943, whern Hitler declared war on THEM (that silly little man!), and japan did the same, at which point they just sailed in and mopped up the last bits and pieces.

By the time the americans joined the war, 75% of the german army had already fallen to the russians on the eastern front. Still, they take all the credit! :)
 
Still, I have to admit that Germans fought well against so many enemies, Italy was crappy ally and Japanese troops didn't really support anything related to biggest German battles/operations, I don't know what was their point of joining into Axis. But as I said, they kicked technology forward aswell as many scientific aspects(Im still suprised how civilization improved from a horse to space journeys in almost one century). Still there are many minor allies and minor axis which are forgotten (Romania, Finland, Poland, French resistance[which had more fighters than France inhabitants] and many more). If they were mentioned then there would be a serious reason to call it world war.

That was kinda offtopic but I think it's ok to discuss some map related stuff.

To be honest I can't think of any questions for developers right now, maybe how goes the progress?
 
PastTime said:
Still there are many minor allies and minor axis which are forgotten (Romania, Finland, Poland, French resistance[which had more fighters than France inhabitants] and many more). If they were mentioned then there would be a serious reason to call it world war.
Click to expand...

Mentioned where, on the 404 error page? I find it better to only mention those which are able to play ingame. Soviet, USA, China, Britain, Italy, Germany, Finland and Japan.
Yea, havn't got any idea of what to write related to China, Britain and Finland yet however.
 
Well, I wasn't talking about 404 page, just overall look at the WW2 fighters.

But if you ask Me, it's kinda stereotypical but, oh well:
British soldiers didn't have any time for tea break.
Not sure about Chinese. Can't really say much about them since I don't know much.
Finland: Got lower battle performance than Soviet army.
 
Lol. Fin is it just me or is there a hacked version of this map as well? I've seen one being hosted in Battle.Net and it says WW2: World In Flame, without the 's'. I was too laggy to downlaod it then.
 
What about smoke/gas artillery/grenades?
Take a look.
  • Invisibility
  • Events
    • Time - Every 1.00 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • -------- temp_group is a Unit Group, used to store units that were Invisibilited --------
    • -------- temp_point and temp_point2 are Point --------
    • -------- temp_unit is a Unit --------
    • -------- Invisibility's Stats - Targets Allowed field is empty --------
    • -------- Invisibility's Techtree - Requirements field is empty --------
    • -------- Invisibility's Stats - Mana Cost is 0 --------
    • -------- Dummy has invalid model path (omg.mdx) and no shadow, cannot attack, is invulnerable --------
    • -------- Dummy's movement type is None --------
    • -------- Dummy's Stats - Hide Minimap Display is true --------
    • Unit Group - Remove all units from temp_group
    • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area) matching ((Unit-type of (Matching unit)) Equal to (Footman)) and do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Set temp_point = (Position of (Picked unit))
        • Set temp_unit = (Picked unit)
        • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units within 512.00 of temp_point matching ((((Matching unit) is A ground unit) Equal to True) and ((Matching unit) Not equal to temp_unit))) and do (Actions)
          • Loop - Actions
            • Unit Group - Add (Picked unit) to temp_group
            • Set temp_point2 = (Position of (Picked unit))
            • Unit - Create 1 Dummy for Neutral Passive at temp_point2 facing Default building facing degrees
            • Unit - Add Invisibility to (Last created unit)
            • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility (Picked unit)
            • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point2)
        • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
    • -------- only those units who weren't just Invisibilited will get their buff removed --------
    • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units in (Playable map area) matching ((((Matching unit) is A ground unit) Equal to True) and ((((Matching unit) is in temp_group) Equal to False) and (((Matching unit) has buff Invisibility) Equal to True)))) and do (Actions)
      • Loop - actions
        • Unit - Remove Invisibility buff from (Picked unit)
  • Remove Dummy
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Finishes casting an ability
  • Conditions
    • ((Unit-type of (Casting unit)) Equal to Dummy
  • Actions
    • Unit - Remove (Casting unit) from the game
The example map is attached.
 

Attachments

Yeah, we know how to code grenades, but we have mostly skipped them since it usually means ordering every single unit to cast a grenade, which is would consume a lot of time for the player. Also, adding it to artillery would be kinda counter-balancing, since artillery is one of the most imbalanced units in hte map at this point.

Thirdly, your map leaks and is very ineficcient, you litterally group 90% of all the units on the map every second and then don't remove the group afterwards, which means that you have a massive group leak every second!
Also, you could code it in a way that allows you to only create a single dummy each loop, which would make it even more eficcient.
We also prefer to keep as much of our code as possible in JASS since it is much more reliable and allows you to see exactly what all the functions are really doing.

Thank you for the effort though, the idea of smoke grenades is actually not that bad, infantry in this map is very exposed, and you could use smoke screens to allow them to pass across crucial points such as chokes or bridges (perhaps giving them an evasion buff).
 
You could add grenades as autocast. In my opinion, Parasite would suit, because it creates a projectile and auto-targets any enemies that are attacking or fighting. See:
  • Throw Grenade
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to Parasite
  • Actions
    • -------- trigger_count is Integer --------
    • -------- trigger_target and trigger_caster are Unit Array (100)
    • -------- Parasite's Data - Damage per Second should be high --------
    • -------- Parasite's Stats - Duration must be as little as possible --------
    • -------- Parasite's Stats - Buffs should be set to something without a model --------
    • Set trigger_target[trigger_count] = (Target unit of ability being cast)
    • Set trigger_caster[trigger_count] = (Casting unit)
    • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count + 1)
    • Wait 0.50 seconds
    • Set temp_point = (Position of trigger_target[0])
    • Special Effect - Create a special effect at temp_point using Objects\Spawnmodels\Other\NeutralBuildingExplosion\NeutralBuildingExplosion.mdl
    • Special Effect - Destroy (Last created special effect)
    • Unit - Cause trigger_caster[0] to damage circular area after 0.00 of radius 500.00 at temp_point, dealing 100.00 damage of attack type Siege and damage type Normal
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
    • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count - 1)
    • For each (Integer A) from 1 to trigger_count, do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Set trigger_caster[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_caster[(Integer A)]
        • Set trigger_target[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_target[(Integer A)]
Example is attached.

Reply to 'insufficiency': If I use only one Dummy, then I'll have to instantly move it to a unit and order it to cast Invisibility. But abilities may not be cast momentarily. Something like this will not work:
  • Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Position of Footman 0040 <gen>) facing Default building facing degrees
  • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0040 <gen>
  • Unit - Move (Last created unit) instantly to (Position of Footman 0041 <gen>)
  • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0041 <gen>
  • Unit - Remove (Last created unit) from the game
Vuormalainen said:
Trust me, we can code. ;) I'd rather like you to explain your idea.
Click to expand...

EDIT: @Vuormalainen Khm, well... If I understand correctly, Fingolfin doesn't want infantry to use grenades, because that would require micro (manually ordering a unit to cast a spell). Using auto-cast abilities like Heal (Alliance Priest), Bloodlust (Horde Shaman) units can cast spells automatically, and in triggers' events that would be registered just like any other spell. So why not apply that to grenades, and infantry will throw them on its own.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
kkots said:
You could add grenades as autocast. In my opinion, Parasite would suit, because it creates a projectile and auto-targets any enemies that are attacking or fighting. See:
  • Throw Grenade
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to Parasite
  • Actions
    • -------- trigger_count is Integer --------
    • -------- trigger_target and trigger_caster are Unit Array (100)
    • -------- Parasite's Data - Damage per Second should be high --------
    • -------- Parasite's Stats - Duration must be as little as possible --------
    • -------- Parasite's Stats - Buffs should be set to something without a model --------
    • Set trigger_target[trigger_count] = (Target unit of ability being cast)
    • Set trigger_caster[trigger_count] = (Casting unit)
    • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count + 1)
    • Wait 0.50 seconds
    • Set temp_point = (Position of trigger_target[0])
    • Special Effect - Create a special effect at temp_point using Objects\Spawnmodels\Other\NeutralBuildingExplosion\NeutralBuildingExplosion.mdl
    • Special Effect - Destroy (Last created special effect)
    • Unit - Cause trigger_caster[0] to damage circular area after 0.00 of radius 500.00 at temp_point, dealing 100.00 damage of attack type Siege and damage type Normal
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
    • Set trigger_count = (trigger_count - 1)
    • For each (Integer A) from 1 to trigger_count, do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Set trigger_caster[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_caster[(Integer A)]
        • Set trigger_target[((Integer A) - 1)] = trigger_target[(Integer A)]
Example is attached.

Reply to 'insufficiency': If I use only one Dummy, then I'll have to instantly move it to a unit and order it to cast Invisibility. But abilities may not be cast momentarily. Something like this will not work:
  • Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Position of Footman 0040 <gen>) facing Default building facing degrees
  • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0040 <gen>
  • Unit - Move (Last created unit) instantly to (Position of Footman 0041 <gen>)
  • Unit - Order (Last created unit) to Human Sorceress - Invisibility Footman 0041 <gen>
  • Unit - Remove (Last created unit) from the game
Click to expand...

Trust me, we can code. ;) I'd rather like you to explain your idea.
 
Autocast sounds better, BUT:
imagine that you have a group of freshly trained soldiers (in WiF, it is not uncommon that you attack with a group of 12-20 soldiers). Immediatelly when theese meet the enemy, every single one will lob off a grenade towards it at the same time, and having them stand around for a while will give the same effect (everyone being regenerated at once).

Also, i'm not sure what grenades would be effective against. In the real war, everything was obviously built around killing soldiers. Even without vehicles, humans are so versatile; we can hide in the smallest pits and holes in the ground, not to mention trench in, and sneak up on tanks and plant mines on them etc. However, there is no way you can properly have this represented in such a stylized, macro-style game like this. That is why we have the rock, paper, scissor model instead - infantry are weak against light tanks, light tanks are weak against medium tanks, medium tanks are weak against heavy tanks, all tanks are weak against AT-guns, and AT-guns are weak against infantry. If we use grenades as a weapon against infantry, we will have an even growing arsenal of scissors to shred those poor little paper bag soldiers.
And just imagine the epic shock value you would get from 12 soldiers throwing grenades at once.. it would be such a massacre that battles would only be about who gets the first strike (and building infantry would feel pretty vain).
 
Then you could make a special unit-type - Grenadier, which is very expensive.
But that's just my silly idea.

EDIT: You may say something like, tanks have area damage too and are much better than grenadiers, so why make grenadiers if there are tanks

EDIT2: Yes, interpreting trenches and little holes can be hard in Wc3. But at least you could make barricades, which save those hiding behind them from enemy's fire.
 
kkots said:
Then you could make a special unit-type - Grenadier, which is very expensive.
Click to expand...

That's a more suitable way of doing it, at least if it automatically uses its smokegrenade. But we already had a pretty hard time with soldier and the current flamethrower unit and I'am wondering how we would get it balanced. But I also think it would make it annoying for the player as you already usually want infantry in higher numbers and you now would have to drop in some more special units as well. Also, as I've mentioned too many times, you don't really have time for such micro in WiF.

Even if it's gonna be automatically using it the enemy will still need to move his units around from this cloud or spread them out in order for better results, right? Works in SC2 sure, but WiF isn't just that. WiF is more of a overview and larger scale game in which the major operations and management should matter rather than micro. But if we get the flamethrower-soldier "issue" solved I myself could consider it, but of course I'll let Fingolfin share his word on this as well :p. However, I do absolutely not consider it a priority but a nice addition indeed :)

kkots said:
EDIT2: Yes, interpreting trenches and little holes can be hard in Wc3. But at least you could make barricades, which save those hiding behind them from enemy's fire.
Click to expand...

We have a lot of barricades actually, but most of them are for the look and easy view of pre-war borders and as well obviously some more on France's northern coast for example.
 
Vuorma, i think you are underrestimating the players ability to micro at some degree, there is NOTHING preventing a player from adding in an extra unit type or two into the mix, otherwise it would be a pretty braindead game. I think the only sane way to implement smoke grenades is to have a new unit type, but the problem there lies in the fact that we might need a new model in that case, and that will take up space. I could imagine having it as an ability on mortar teams, incase we decide to add those.

As for the whole moving around part; smoke screens would do "one thang and one thang only", and that is to make infantry within it harder to hit (allied or enemy alike). I don't see why you'd need to spread untis around because of that, really. I am not against the idea of having units use active abilities for theese kind of specialized tasks, the part where micro becomes an issue in this game is when it is something you NEED to constantly do in order for your units to be at their best in battle, for instance the idea of having a "crouch/take cover" ability on infantry - that increases armor at the cost of speed - basically, you'd have to turn it on everytime you attack and turn it off everytime you move. That is just evil to the player. Same goes with artillery having to pack/unpack, just a true menace.

So to make it short, if we add mortar teams, then yes, it would be really cool (and benificial for the balance of infantry) to give them smoke grenades as an ability. The only issue is wether we have the space to add those.

EDIT:

BATTLE STATIONS!!

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You can read the whole thread here.
 
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It only has 100 more triangles than the cruiser.
Besides, the upkeep cost of theese will be so brutal that you won't want more than 5 or 6.

It is hard to estimate how long it took to make the whole thing, as you might recognize i uploaded pictures of the mesh several months ago and didn't work on it for a long period, but i could safely say that the texturing and wrapping took more than 8 hours.
 
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