wow, this thread is interesanting, and it made me ask something to my self.
as i readed it is immoral and buggy(about the high poly, unnessesary anims etcetc) what about export a model, edit it to make it suitable for wc3 and upload it(removing all those innesesary things and adding what is left) is is it approvable by the hive that way??
How about... READING A DAMN THREAD.
Like we said, only if you retexture it, fix the animations, make it lower poly, and don't make it look like a rip, then you're fine. Usually.
In my opinion wow-rips arent in any way immoral or unjust. From what i know the entire wc3 modding community must be based on creativity. How do you get creativity flowing? With as wide a variety of resources as possible. With resources comes possibilities and with possibilities comes ideas and since there isnt any real physical gain/loss involved in extracting, i see no reason to deny logic. The better the bricks the better the house!
I dont think you understood a word i said. Im not implying that you NEED any wow models im saying that you might WANT wow models!
Uhm... You convinced me.
But what if I want no new or creative stuff? What if I'm just good at making copies of other people's work and there are people that enjoy playing such games? I mean look at my new map. It's completely based off wow and d3 and people still like it. I see no problem with that, and as a matter of fact I started it as a d3 rip-off. Anyway, I dislike disapproving wow models and resources here on hive, but who am I to judge? I'll keep doing what I like and you will keep saying that it's a ripoff but I don't mind.
Uploading maps with WoW models is as well illegal (I won't post once more why, look by pages 12-19). So on, they'll still eat modhammer.
Here's the rule:
Maps that violate any of THW's general or specific site rules as detailed in the FAQ
and guess what does THW's rules say,?
The direct exporting of resources from games other than Warcraft III is prohibited. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, World of Warcraft®. No such resources may be submitted to THW. Forum discussions pertaining to the export or editing of resources from other games will be closed.
just exporting the model is illegal, if you post WoW models in any kind of way, you'll experience the big holy hammer in yar arse!!
Darkholme, I'll answer your statements, ignoring the first 2 since they are personal points of view.
3rd Statement (==3. Political Comment==)
we guide through international copyright laws here, and as they have been written they most be followed, so don't state that because some(american's in this case) are absurd for you, you can ignore then and disobey them.
4th Statement (==4. Amusing Information==)
1rst "Opinion" (you never proved it a fact you just made it up), in Canada downloading copyrighted content is illegal, atleast in Ontario, my brother-in-law, who lives in Toronto, recieved a communicate concerning this matter from the goverment adverticing the cut of internet service if this action continued.
According to most countries' laws(is not inside the international agreements), copying a copyrighted material that you own is not illegal if, only IF, the company does not support backuping for the broken CD or the lost of the copyrighted material. (Blizzard Entertaiment supports the backuping of their products, so it's ILLAGAL to copy Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo TM products, except those which have lost this support[Warcraft 1]).
2nd "Opinion" that matter, the Canadian TV, is unrelated to the subject in discussion.
5th Statement (==5. Sidenote: It's still not theft==)
You don't say what's theft and what's not, laws say so; and laws agree that the action is against the authors copyrights.
okey, now lets get into matter.
First, you aren't copying an idea, but taking something concrete, and you DON'T credit ideas, but YOU CITE ideas according to 2 patterns, the Washignton D.C's National Bibliothek pattern for citing authors, or the European pattern.
Now you appointed 3 statements inside this body:
1. The owner of the concept isn't deprived of the model.
He looses the right to keep it inside the whole of the license agreement within the product, which specified that the content of the product had only been made for the purpose of being used within the product.
2. The model isn't a hole product being used it's a portion, and a certain portion of work is legally allowed to be copied as long as credit is given
This things are protected by the license agreement, and dues is protected by the international law, according to it you won't altere, or extract any content within the product. So your opinion once more falls to law.
I won't repeat myself anymore and really, end the argument already, we aren't changing our policies. Now leave the argument apart, we won't change our rules, deal with it.
That does not however change the fact that the legal argument is just as empty as it was way back when I initially pointed out the holes in the argument. EULAs don't ever trump actual laws.
sidenote: Griffen: They aren't claiming to be the model's creator, and the map that they would make with it would still be owned by the company who created the resources. But we're back into opinion on this point.
I guess the long and short of it is: The legality of the issue can be argued depending on use and context, and in many you could claim fair use. Hive has every right to make their own policies, for any reason they choose. So while you can do it from that argument, you can't put them here. In a map (the context where you could claim fair use) or otherwise.
Frankly, it is a good policy, even if I disagree with the legitimacy of alot of the arguments here as to why.
In the EULA it says something about being bound by the laws of texas. I'm pretty sure most other places will supercede that part, for example.Wrong actually; they are a contractual obligation. Some laws that can trump, some it can't. Given the retardation of US law, the DMCA probably makes the EULA largely legally enforceable in this area.
Fair use does NOT apply for this usage anyway. You'd be distributing a derivative work (the model) rather than transformative. There is no real public interest claim.
Due to the usage, in no cases can you claim fair use.
- noncommercial, non-profit, entertainment, the map must be an original idea with non-default playstyle as to be transformative.1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
- a commercial game, which makes use of the model in its original form2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
- miniscule. The model is a very small part of the copyrighted work, and it is being used as a small part of a larger work.3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
- none at all. neither the map nor model will affect the popularity, or income of WorldOfWarcraft.4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
If a company did it in an game, that is a very different situation than a person using a model by blizzard, in a map for a game created by blizzard, a map which all rights to are also owned by blizzard. The individual is not making any profit or marketing for themselves for future profit through a map with a copied model.No, we're not. What was the last company to rip models and put it in their games? Oh, yea, that one that got sued into the ground, right. You just don't take people's models without their consent. We ban people for that at WC3C because it is massively immoral and really unprofessional and just plain rude.
In the EULA it says something about being bound by the laws of texas. I'm pretty sure most other places will supercede that part, for example.
Lets assume the EULA isnt the issue here. you can rip the models off the disc without agreeing to the EULA. The Eula applies while installing. So let's say you ripped the model without having agreed to the eula, whatever it says. I'm only talking about the fair use argument.
I'm going to clarify that I'm not making any statements about just distrubuting the model, but distributing a Warcraft 3 map that makes use of the model.
So Lets approach this making the assumption that the use is a map, an encrypted map, to say you made the extra effort to not give out the model by itself, which would as you point out be an obvious derivative work.
- noncommercial, non-profit, entertainment, the map must be an original idea with non-default playstyle as to be transformative.
- a commercial game, which makes use of the model in its original form
- miniscule. The model is a very small part of the copyrighted work, and it is being used as a small part of a larger work.
- none at all. neither the map nor model will affect the popularity, or income of WorldOfWarcraft.
If a company did it in an game, that is a very different situation than a person using a model by blizzard, in a map for a game created by blizzard, a map which all rights to are also owned by blizzard. The individual is not making any profit or marketing for themselves for future profit through a map with a copied model.
and again, before someone whines at me again saying something about the policy not changing, there is no part of my post even implying that the policy SHOULD change.
Remixes, could be claimed as fair use, and use a much larger portion of the copyrighted work.You can rip and then redistribute music in the same way; doesn't stop it being illegal.
Distributing it as part of a map would count as not distributing it by itself, as part of something larger and original.You cannot not distribute it.
You can lock a map by making it not open in WE, which makes ripping things out of it more difficult. Which is all any kind of encryption does anyways. Otherwise you wouldnt be physically able to copy games, and cds, with 'copy protection'And you cannot actually encrypt the map, nor can you stop people taking the model out.
Hmm. Nothing I can find on fair use rulings and laws says anything like that. Quote please?None of these actually give a reason why you need to rip stuff rather than creating original content. Without that reason, fair use does NOT apply. Fair use is assumed not to exist unless there is a reason for it to exist.
precisely, which is why a company using models from someone else's game in their own commercial game would almost definitely not be fair use. I was pointing out the fact that blizzard would be retaining ownership of the map, because of how they set up their license.Being not for profit or not is something that has very little impact in terms of turning it from non-fair use to fair use, but being for profit makes fair use a lot harder to claim.
Remixes, could be claimed as fair use, and use a much larger portion of the copyrighted work.
Distributing it as part of a map would count as not distributing it by itself, as part of something larger and original.
You can lock a map by making it not open in WE, which makes ripping things out of it more difficult. Which is all any kind of encryption does anyways. Otherwise you wouldnt be physically able to copy games, and cds, with 'copy protection'
Hmm. Nothing I can find on fair use rulings and laws says anything like that. Quote please?
precisely, which is why a company using models from someone else's game in their own commercial game would almost definitely not be fair use. I was pointing out the fact that blizzard would be retaining ownership of the map, because of how they set up their license.
There's nothing saying you can't distribute something freely if it falls under fair use, that was my point. but since a rational discussion/debate is clearly pointless here. I give up trying to have such a discussion.
I made it clear as to how a ripped model can be used AND distributed and fall under fair use, if you're just going to "Nuh-Uh!" about it feel free.
if someone is looking and decides to make a map using a model under fair use, they know basically how such as thing would work, and can go look up the rest of the details on how fair use works and then do it in such a way that what they do is legal.
They can't post it in here, which is fine, but they'll know there are ways to use small portions of someone's copyrighted work as fair use.
I'm done with this "discussion" now since I've pointed out that the 'illegal' argument really depends on the context of how the fraction of a copyrighted work is used.
Yes, spout all the tedious legal mumbo-jumbo you want, it still comes down to the fact that we, as a website, do not want to have these models here. We don't want you uploading them. We don't want you talking about them. It's against our rules, and while you use this website, you'll follow them; whether WoW models are legal or not is irrelevant at this point
It's quite easy:
Advertising the websites isn't illegal, and neither is the product they sell. WoW gold is against the EULA for World of Warcraft, not illegal according to international law.
Copyright Law, on the other hand, has much to say on the subject of stolen property. WoW models are stolen property.
Alcohol does far less long-term damage than Marijuana. But that's entirely besides the point, because CNN is sell-out Conservative bullshit.
And that's besides the point again, because:
This isn't a World of Warcraft website. If gold-selling websites are so illegal, why has ING and the like been around for a long, long time? They're insanely popular, and though Blizzard frowns upon their practices, and bans gold-miners, they've never pressed charges, and they can't.
On top of that, ripping a model that wasn't created by you and that you don't have permission (By the creator or by law) to use is entirely against the rules here.
But that's irrelevent STILL. Why? Because we don't like people who steal others' property. So if you wanna use this website, you don't. It's as easy as that.
On top of that, ripping a model that wasn't created by you and that you don't have permission (By the creator or by law) to use is entirely against the rules here.