Why are WoW models not allowed?

[X.e.r.e.X]

Ofc it's banned also... It's model like any other

 

[Hawkwing]

Is this thread seriously still alive? Tbh, it should just get closed.

 

[brad.dude03]

50 others would spring up in its place. That's why it's kept open.

 

[Hawkwing]

Very valid point you got there.

 

[Lightskin]

wow, this thread is interesanting, and it made me ask something to my self.

as i readed it is immoral and buggy(about the high poly, unnessesary anims etcetc) what about export a model, edit it to make it suitable for wc3 and upload it(removing all those innesesary things and adding what is left) is is it approvable by the hive that way??

 

[HappyTauren]

How about... READING A DAMN THREAD.

 

[Pyritie]

wow, this thread is interesanting, and it made me ask something to my self.

as i readed it is immoral and buggy(about the high poly, unnessesary anims etcetc) what about export a model, edit it to make it suitable for wc3 and upload it(removing all those innesesary things and adding what is left) is is it approvable by the hive that way??

Like we said, only if you retexture it, fix the animations, make it lower poly, and don't make it look like a rip, then you're fine. Usually.

 

[Lightskin]

How about... READING A DAMN THREAD.

well, sorry, its just that reading 23 threads more is about boring.

Like we said, only if you retexture it, fix the animations, make it lower poly, and don't make it look like a rip, then you're fine. Usually.

nice, thanks for telling me.

 

[diablothun]

I think tahat by this logic even Dota templates should be illegal since the spells and engines and tahta stuff are all dota's property right ?

 

[HappyTauren]

What a moron. They are BLIZZARD's property, as everyone else made for wc3 is.

 

[Mysecret]

In my opinion wow-rips arent in any way immoral or unjust. From what i know the entire wc3 modding community must be based on creativity. How do you get creativity flowing? With as wide a variety of resources as possible. With resources comes possibilities and with possibilities comes ideas and since there isnt any real physical gain/loss involved in extracting, i see no reason to deny logic. The better the bricks the better the house!

 

[Kimbo]

How the hell is it creative when you arnt even making anything from scratch or by heart? Really..Thats like saying "Cnping naruto characters from anime stills is creative ^__^" than compared to actually drawing them yourself..hmm?

 

[brad.dude03]

The funny thing here is that your opinion doesn't matter at all.

 

[Mysecret]

Well, as the definition suggests a debate involves expressing multiple opinions from diffirent people, you motherfucker. Okay? And yes what i described is creative, because it isnt all about making things from scratch, pouring hours into it, your bare hands etc, but also what you do with it.

 

[Deathbringer]

In my opinion wow-rips arent in any way immoral or unjust. From what i know the entire wc3 modding community must be based on creativity. How do you get creativity flowing? With as wide a variety of resources as possible. With resources comes possibilities and with possibilities comes ideas and since there isnt any real physical gain/loss involved in extracting, i see no reason to deny logic. The better the bricks the better the house!

That was a horrible analogy given that WoW models are so large you can only have 4-5 bricks to build your house with if you managed to use any

The fact remains, the Wc3 modding community is based around creativity, and this SITE is based around YOUR creations, not Blizzard's, and you don't NEED WoW Models for a good map, on the contrary they degrade from the general quality of a map given their extreme differences to anything else in Warcraft 3, unless you plan to replace every.. single.. model.. in your map with WoW models (which isn't plausible nor possible) there's no reason.

 

[Mysecret]

I dont think you understood a word i said. Im not implying that you NEED any wow models im saying that you might WANT wow models!
And by want i mean find a creative use.

 

[Deathbringer]

I dont think you understood a word i said. Im not implying that you NEED any wow models im saying that you might WANT wow models!

There's no reason to want something that would kill your map, creatively or not WoW models would in fact completely ruin any good map, they flat out take up enough space to kill a man and then some, as well as generally making everything else look like shit.

Given how simple it is to rip WoW models anyway, if we DID allow them, let's just hypothetically state this:

We would have every single WoW model in existence within a week, the sheer amount of stupidity that would follow is not estimable. Everyone and their mother will be uploading WOW models.

To break it down, there are about 33,000 models found in WoW (Don't ask how I know this), I can BET that within 2 months we will have at least one of every one of those on this site, and the site cannot handle that many of models of that size.

I'm sure one or two "artists" could dumb down their poly counts, but it still wouldn't help the situation, it would be an out of control snowball and Blizzard especially would not take kindly to us posting their content on the internet for everyone to steal.

This is all hypothetical of course.

Risk vs Reward, the Reward is far from worth it.

 

[Mysecret]

Uhm... You convinced me.

 

[Deathbringer]

Uhm... You convinced me.

Haha, nice to see you see things our way =D

 

[brad.dude03]

See why I told you in advance. You wasted all this time arguing, when just like everyone before you, you submitted in the end.

Nothing can replace hard work, and that's what we support here at the Hive, original content.

Also, there's no need to flame. Do it again and you'll be punished. Being blunt isn't against the rules.

 

[Serbianbeast]

But what if I want no new or creative stuff? What if I'm just good at making copies of other people's work and there are people that enjoy playing such games? I mean look at my new map. It's completely based off wow and d3 and people still like it. I see no problem with that, and as a matter of fact I started it as a d3 rip-off. Anyway, I dislike disapproving wow models and resources here on hive, but who am I to judge? I'll keep doing what I like and you will keep saying that it's a ripoff but I don't mind.

 

[Deathbringer]

But what if I want no new or creative stuff? What if I'm just good at making copies of other people's work and there are people that enjoy playing such games? I mean look at my new map. It's completely based off wow and d3 and people still like it. I see no problem with that, and as a matter of fact I started it as a d3 rip-off. Anyway, I dislike disapproving wow models and resources here on hive, but who am I to judge? I'll keep doing what I like and you will keep saying that it's a ripoff but I don't mind.

Justify it and call it whatever you wish, its still what it is.

We're not talking ideas, we're talking models ripped straight from games.

 

[Screaming_flame]

I'm Currently Using, One, BUT it won't Show Up in your Computer.

Don't tell me where I got that.

 

[brad.dude03]

Uh...

What?

 

[Screaming_flame]

I said That I'm Actually Using One, But It Won't Show In your .MPQ

 

[Darkholme]

Wow. this thread is still going. lol

The models aren't original, through they're just as original as using the standard models that come with wc3 so that is really irrelevent. The creativity that would matter would be the map, not the models used in the map, or nobody wuld be using the standard models to match that same logic. "I need to make sure I don't use models made by other people". For that matter people wouldnt be using public models either, because that's not original either. They would all have totally original models and every map would look completely different with different graphics. Which wouldnt be bad but its damn unlikely.

Ripping a wow model is easy, true, but making it suitable for wc3 is really NOT easy. You need to remove all the extra meshes, fix the textures, add teamcolor, lower the polycount, and then add the missing animations. alot of work, but not as much as doing it from scratch. If done right a ripped model can be a good feature in a map, like if the wc3 equivalent is crap, or nonexistant. If you want a creature in your map from wow, for a solid reason (like its a big troll map and you want one of those giant trolls for a boss), and it doesn't exist in wc3, you could make it yourself, copying the wow one, or you could copy the wow one and make it into a wc3 model if you have the ability (which requires most of the skills modeling would anyways, but takes less time). There's not much difference

If they allowed it people would upload crap that nobody could use up here and waste server space, which is true.

For the record, you can use American Fair use law to justify it's legality, because a single model is a very small fraction of WoW, and assuming it's just a small part of an original work by yourself it's legal. Additionally, it doesn't in any way infringe on their profits, because a model in your map won't hurt their WoW sales. Go look up american fair use laws, there's a pretty simplified breakdown of it on wikipedia for people who dont want to read legal jargon. I'm pretty sure blizzard owns the rights to anything you make in their toolset or release with a map, so that would be a pretty big indicator on the legal side too. By the way, I'm not talking about distributing the models by themselves, like on the site, which would be on the side of illegal, im referring to using it in a publically distributed map, as part of a larger product.

It's the site policy, so you can't upload them here, legal or no, and im not even saying I disagree with said policy (because people would upload crappy models, which would make the decent models harder to find). I'm just saying what I'm saying. Poke holes in the arguments, on both sides, just for fun. woo.

You could debate this on the grounds of morality, which someone did in this thread at some point, and there were equally interesting rebuttals, but then it's all opinion and just philosophical discussion, which, while interesting, doesn't help anyone come to any conclusions. and well, site policy. No connection to legality, regardless of how many people claim it is, but you don't own the site so you can't stop them from taking down content you post against their rules.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Professionalism requires you don't allow it.

 

[BlinkBoy]

read the thread before posting, your argumwent has been repeated and thrown millions of times. I won't repeat myself anymore and really, end the argument already, we aren't changing our policies.

Uploading maps with WoW models is as well illegal (I won't post once more why, look by pages 12-19). So on, they'll still eat modhammer.

Here's the rule:

Maps that violate any of THW's general or specific site rules as detailed in the FAQ

and guess what does THW's rules say, ?

The direct exporting of resources from games other than Warcraft III is prohibited. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, World of Warcraft®. No such resources may be submitted to THW. Forum discussions pertaining to the export or editing of resources from other games will be closed.

just exporting the model is illegal, if you post WoW models in any kind of way, you'll experience the big holy hammer in yar arse!!

Darkholme, I'll answer your statements, ignoring the first 2 since they are personal points of view.

3rd Statement (==3. Political Comment==)

we guide through international copyright laws here, and as they have been written they most be followed, so don't state that because some(american's in this case) are absurd for you, you can ignore then and disobey them.

4th Statement (==4. Amusing Information==)

1rst "Opinion" (you never proved it a fact you just made it up), in Canada downloading copyrighted content is illegal, atleast in Ontario, my brother-in-law, who lives in Toronto, recieved a communicate concerning this matter from the goverment adverticing the cut of internet service if this action continued.

According to most countries' laws(is not inside the international agreements), copying a copyrighted material that you own is not illegal if, only IF, the company does not support backuping for the broken CD or the lost of the copyrighted material. (Blizzard Entertaiment supports the backuping of their products, so it's ILLAGAL to copy Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo TM products, except those which have lost this support[Warcraft 1]).

2nd "Opinion" that matter, the Canadian TV, is unrelated to the subject in discussion.

5th Statement (==5. Sidenote: It's still not theft==)

You don't say what's theft and what's not, laws say so; and laws agree that the action is against the authors copyrights.

okey, now lets get into matter.

First, you aren't copying an idea, but taking something concrete, and you DON'T credit ideas, but YOU CITE ideas according to 2 patterns, the Washignton D.C's National Bibliothek pattern for citing authors, or the European pattern.

Now you appointed 3 statements inside this body:

1. The owner of the concept isn't deprived of the model.

He looses the right to keep it inside the whole of the license agreement within the product, which specified that the content of the product had only been made for the purpose of being used within the product.

2. The model isn't a hole product being used it's a portion, and a certain portion of work is legally allowed to be copied as long as credit is given

This things are protected by the license agreement, and dues is protected by the international law, according to it you won't altere, or extract any content within the product. So your opinion once more falls to law.

Now leave the argument apart, we won't change our rules, deal with it.

 

[Darkholme]

I won't repeat myself anymore and really, end the argument already, we aren't changing our policies. Now leave the argument apart, we won't change our rules, deal with it.

If you had paid attention to my post you would have seen that I was not saying the policy should be changed, in fact I was saying that it makes sense due to the low quality items that would result from it being lifted, and that to post items in violation of the site's terms is bad, due to the hive being allowed to make any terms it sees fit. I in fact stated support as to why hives policies should NOT change. My post wasn't about changing the policy, I was just pointed out flawed arguments in some of the more recent posts, from both points of view, as well as providing some summarized information for those who havent read the whole 28 pages.

That does not however change the fact that the legal argument is just as empty as it was way back when I initially pointed out the holes in the argument. EULAs don't ever trump actual laws.

So while I agree with the policy, what I'm refuting is bad logic and empty arguments.

I believe I mentioned that in my post as well.

Pay attention to what you read, and you won't make as many irrational angry rebuttals.

Edit: it's 2 AM, and my vocabulary isn't the greatest at the moment, hence the repetitive word choice.

sidenote: Griffen: They aren't claiming to be the model's creator, and the map that they would make with it would still be owned by the company who created the resources. But we're back into opinion on this point.

I guess the long and short of it is: The legality of the issue can be argued depending on use and context, and in many you could claim fair use. Hive has every right to make their own policies, for any reason they choose. So while you can do it from that argument, you can't put them here. In a map (the context where you could claim fair use) or otherwise.

Frankly, it is a good policy, even if I disagree with the legitimacy of alot of the arguments here as to why.

 

[Captain Griffen]

That does not however change the fact that the legal argument is just as empty as it was way back when I initially pointed out the holes in the argument. EULAs don't ever trump actual laws.

Wrong actually; they are a contractual obligation. Some laws that can trump, some it can't. Given the retardation of US law, the DMCA probably makes the EULA largely legally enforceable in this area.

Fair use does NOT apply for this usage anyway. You'd be distributing a derivative work (the model) rather than transformative. There is no real public interest claim.

sidenote: Griffen: They aren't claiming to be the model's creator, and the map that they would make with it would still be owned by the company who created the resources. But we're back into opinion on this point.

No, we're not. What was the last company to rip models and put it in their games? Oh, yea, that one that got sued into the ground, right. You just don't take people's models without their consent. We ban people for that at WC3C because it is massively immoral and really unprofessional and just plain rude.

I guess the long and short of it is: The legality of the issue can be argued depending on use and context, and in many you could claim fair use. Hive has every right to make their own policies, for any reason they choose. So while you can do it from that argument, you can't put them here. In a map (the context where you could claim fair use) or otherwise.

Frankly, it is a good policy, even if I disagree with the legitimacy of alot of the arguments here as to why.

Due to the usage, in no cases can you claim fair use.

 

[Darkholme]

Wrong actually; they are a contractual obligation. Some laws that can trump, some it can't. Given the retardation of US law, the DMCA probably makes the EULA largely legally enforceable in this area.

Fair use does NOT apply for this usage anyway. You'd be distributing a derivative work (the model) rather than transformative. There is no real public interest claim.

Due to the usage, in no cases can you claim fair use.

In the EULA it says something about being bound by the laws of texas. I'm pretty sure most other places will supercede that part, for example.

Lets assume the EULA isnt the issue here. you can rip the models off the disc without agreeing to the EULA. The Eula applies while installing. So let's say you ripped the model without having agreed to the eula, whatever it says. I'm only talking about the fair use argument.

I'm going to clarify that I'm not making any statements about just distrubuting the model, but distributing a Warcraft 3 map that makes use of the model.

So Lets approach this making the assumption that the use is a map, an encrypted map, to say you made the extra effort to not give out the model by itself, which would as you point out be an obvious derivative work.

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

- noncommercial, non-profit, entertainment, the map must be an original idea with non-default playstyle as to be transformative.

2. the nature of the copyrighted work;

- a commercial game, which makes use of the model in its original form

3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

- miniscule. The model is a very small part of the copyrighted work, and it is being used as a small part of a larger work.

4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

- none at all. neither the map nor model will affect the popularity, or income of WorldOfWarcraft.
[/QUOTE]

No, we're not. What was the last company to rip models and put it in their games? Oh, yea, that one that got sued into the ground, right. You just don't take people's models without their consent. We ban people for that at WC3C because it is massively immoral and really unprofessional and just plain rude.

If a company did it in an game, that is a very different situation than a person using a model by blizzard, in a map for a game created by blizzard, a map which all rights to are also owned by blizzard. The individual is not making any profit or marketing for themselves for future profit through a map with a copied model.

and again, before someone whines at me again saying something about the policy not changing, there is no part of my post even implying that the policy SHOULD change.

 

[Captain Griffen]

In the EULA it says something about being bound by the laws of texas. I'm pretty sure most other places will supercede that part, for example.

Lets assume the EULA isnt the issue here. you can rip the models off the disc without agreeing to the EULA. The Eula applies while installing. So let's say you ripped the model without having agreed to the eula, whatever it says. I'm only talking about the fair use argument.

You can rip and then redistribute music in the same way; doesn't stop it being illegal.

I'm going to clarify that I'm not making any statements about just distrubuting the model, but distributing a Warcraft 3 map that makes use of the model.

So Lets approach this making the assumption that the use is a map, an encrypted map, to say you made the extra effort to not give out the model by itself, which would as you point out be an obvious derivative work.

You cannot not distribute it. And you cannot actually encrypt the map, nor can you stop people taking the model out.

- noncommercial, non-profit, entertainment, the map must be an original idea with non-default playstyle as to be transformative.

- a commercial game, which makes use of the model in its original form

- miniscule. The model is a very small part of the copyrighted work, and it is being used as a small part of a larger work.

- none at all. neither the map nor model will affect the popularity, or income of WorldOfWarcraft.

None of these actually give a reason why you need to rip stuff rather than creating original content. Without that reason, fair use does NOT apply. Fair use is assumed not to exist unless there is a reason for it to exist.

If a company did it in an game, that is a very different situation than a person using a model by blizzard, in a map for a game created by blizzard, a map which all rights to are also owned by blizzard. The individual is not making any profit or marketing for themselves for future profit through a map with a copied model.

and again, before someone whines at me again saying something about the policy not changing, there is no part of my post even implying that the policy SHOULD change.

Being not for profit or not is something that has very little impact in terms of turning it from non-fair use to fair use, but being for profit makes fair use a lot harder to claim.

 

[Darkholme]

You can rip and then redistribute music in the same way; doesn't stop it being illegal.

Remixes, could be claimed as fair use, and use a much larger portion of the copyrighted work.

You cannot not distribute it.

Distributing it as part of a map would count as not distributing it by itself, as part of something larger and original.

And you cannot actually encrypt the map, nor can you stop people taking the model out.

You can lock a map by making it not open in WE, which makes ripping things out of it more difficult. Which is all any kind of encryption does anyways. Otherwise you wouldnt be physically able to copy games, and cds, with 'copy protection'

None of these actually give a reason why you need to rip stuff rather than creating original content. Without that reason, fair use does NOT apply. Fair use is assumed not to exist unless there is a reason for it to exist.

Hmm. Nothing I can find on fair use rulings and laws says anything like that. Quote please?

Being not for profit or not is something that has very little impact in terms of turning it from non-fair use to fair use, but being for profit makes fair use a lot harder to claim.

precisely, which is why a company using models from someone else's game in their own commercial game would almost definitely not be fair use. I was pointing out the fact that blizzard would be retaining ownership of the map, because of how they set up their license.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Remixes, could be claimed as fair use, and use a much larger portion of the copyrighted work.

Music's covered by its own framework, isn't it?

Distributing it as part of a map would count as not distributing it by itself, as part of something larger and original.

It would still count as distribution.

You can lock a map by making it not open in WE, which makes ripping things out of it more difficult. Which is all any kind of encryption does anyways. Otherwise you wouldnt be physically able to copy games, and cds, with 'copy protection'

And...? The fact you cannot avoid distributing it when ripping it doesn't mean you aren't distributing it...

Hmm. Nothing I can find on fair use rulings and laws says anything like that. Quote please?

It's called copyright law. You're not allowed to distribute copyrighted stuff without consent. Fair use is an exception, but certainly not the rule.

precisely, which is why a company using models from someone else's game in their own commercial game would almost definitely not be fair use. I was pointing out the fact that blizzard would be retaining ownership of the map, because of how they set up their license.

So...? That has no relevence.

 

[Darkholme]

There's nothing saying you can't distribute something freely if it falls under fair use, that was my point. but since a rational discussion/debate is clearly pointless here. I give up trying to have such a discussion.

I made it clear as to how a ripped model can be used AND distributed and fall under fair use, if you're just going to "Nuh-Uh!" about it feel free.

if someone is looking and decides to make a map using a model under fair use, they know basically how such as thing would work, and can go look up the rest of the details on how fair use works and then do it in such a way that what they do is legal.

They can't post it in here, which is fine, but they'll know there are ways to use small portions of someone's copyrighted work as fair use.

I'm done with this "discussion" now since I've pointed out that the 'illegal' argument really depends on the context of how the fraction of a copyrighted work is used.

 

[Captain Griffen]

There's nothing saying you can't distribute something freely if it falls under fair use, that was my point. but since a rational discussion/debate is clearly pointless here. I give up trying to have such a discussion.

I made it clear as to how a ripped model can be used AND distributed and fall under fair use, if you're just going to "Nuh-Uh!" about it feel free.

if someone is looking and decides to make a map using a model under fair use, they know basically how such as thing would work, and can go look up the rest of the details on how fair use works and then do it in such a way that what they do is legal.

They can't post it in here, which is fine, but they'll know there are ways to use small portions of someone's copyrighted work as fair use.

I'm done with this "discussion" now since I've pointed out that the 'illegal' argument really depends on the context of how the fraction of a copyrighted work is used.

It isn't fair use. It doesn't matter how small or insignificant the amount is or how little it damages anyone if there is no fair use rational. Fair use is not to avoid creating your own content, but for things such as education, reviewing, critique, parody, etc. - things where you actually need to use it, rather than to cut down on what you need to create. The latter, which is the use it is used for in WC3 mapping, is very much not in the interests of creativity, and has no fair use rational, hence does not have that exemption to copyright.

 

[Elenai]

In summary:

Don't fricken use them, they don't fit, and quite frankly its cheating.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes, spout all the tedious legal mumbo-jumbo you want, it still comes down to the fact that we, as a website, do not want to have these models here. We don't want you uploading them. We don't want you talking about them. It's against our rules, and while you use this website, you'll follow them; whether WoW models are legal or not is irrelevant at this point

 

[Dr Super Good]

Using WoW models in WC3 is the same as using Supreme commander, TES oblivion or Crysis ported models in WC3 or any game for that reason. You basically distribute recources that a company owns (in the form of a game only you brought from them and have permission to use) to other people for free. This violates the law.

WoW icons are an exception as blizzard specifically has stated that WC3 players can use them with out any problems, afterall a lot of the WoW icons were from WC3 so it was only fair.

As this site trys to remain legitimate and obey the law, WoW models can not be allowed. There are also other reasons like WoW models not being of a usable standard for WC3 (are too high quality) but in the end all those reasons do not mater as they still would not be permited due to the use of WoW models in WC3 being offically illegal in almost all legal systems.

Really I am suprized this topic has not been closed by now. No mater what is said, WoW models will not be allowed and I am sure everyone has grasped by now that they are banned for a reason far beyond the management of this site.

 

[BlinkBoy]

I con't close it, Wolverabid had said "to leave it open" since it's a "necessary evil", I think you get what he means.

 

[Darkholme]

Yes, spout all the tedious legal mumbo-jumbo you want, it still comes down to the fact that we, as a website, do not want to have these models here. We don't want you uploading them. We don't want you talking about them. It's against our rules, and while you use this website, you'll follow them; whether WoW models are legal or not is irrelevant at this point

If you're referring to my post, you must be pretty dense. I said the policy is a good policy, and said it should be in place. I was pointing out the stupidity of one of the arguments used for it, because the argument is flawed, and the stupidity of said argument just made me feel an urge to respond to it, whether I agree with the policy or not. What you don't get is the post wasnt even about the site rules, just about the stupid argument in favor of them.

Dr Super Good: As others have pointed out, if this thread gets closed a dozen more will spring up in its place.

 

[brad.dude03]

No, it was a general reminder to everyone who has come before you have everyone who will come after. If I was directing it at you, I would have quoted.

 

[Darkholme]

Okie Dokie

 

[xXx-Tricky-xXx]

I think that it is hilarious Hive does not support WoW exports of ANY kind, yet supports an astonishing amount of advertisements of illegal sales of gold for the game on this website. Try justifying that.

 

[brad.dude03]

It's quite easy:

Advertising the websites isn't illegal, and neither is the product they sell. WoW gold is against the EULA for World of Warcraft, not illegal according to international law.

Copyright Law, on the other hand, has much to say on the subject of stolen property. WoW models are stolen property.

 

[xXx-Tricky-xXx]

It's quite easy:

Advertising the websites isn't illegal, and neither is the product they sell. WoW gold is against the EULA for World of Warcraft, not illegal according to international law.

Copyright Law, on the other hand, has much to say on the subject of stolen property. WoW models are stolen property.

that was not the point i was trying to make, but if you want to bring up actual legality... then gold selling is quite illegal according to what you have said. Everything in the game is owned or licensed by Blizzard, so when you sell gold to another person, you are exploiting intellectually owned property for profit which in this case is theft. The exact same thing for selling an account, it is intellectual property of Blizzard no matter what you may think. My statement was this website supports gold/account selling, which is worse than ripping models because you are not exploiting the property for profit as you are selling gold and accounts that you do not own. Personally, I could care less as it is tough to keep a website like this running, but the way model exporting is looked at here is almost as bad as CNN talking about how bad marijuana smokers are, and then go on a commercial break sponsored by an alcohol advertisement. Everyone is a hypocrite these days.

 

[brad.dude03]

Alcohol does far less long-term damage than Marijuana. But that's entirely besides the point, because CNN is sell-out Conservative bullshit.

And that's besides the point again, because:
This isn't a World of Warcraft website. If gold-selling websites are so illegal, why has ING and the like been around for a long, long time? They're insanely popular, and though Blizzard frowns upon their practices, and bans gold-miners, they've never pressed charges, and they can't.

On top of that, ripping a model that wasn't created by you and that you don't have permission (By the creator or by law) to use is entirely against the rules here.

But that's irrelevent STILL. Why? Because we don't like people who steal others' property. So if you wanna use this website, you don't. It's as easy as that.

 

[xXx-Tricky-xXx]

Alcohol does far less long-term damage than Marijuana. But that's entirely besides the point, because CNN is sell-out Conservative bullshit.

And that's besides the point again, because:
This isn't a World of Warcraft website. If gold-selling websites are so illegal, why has ING and the like been around for a long, long time? They're insanely popular, and though Blizzard frowns upon their practices, and bans gold-miners, they've never pressed charges, and they can't.

On top of that, ripping a model that wasn't created by you and that you don't have permission (By the creator or by law) to use is entirely against the rules here.

But that's irrelevent STILL. Why? Because we don't like people who steal others' property. So if you wanna use this website, you don't. It's as easy as that.

really? smoking marijuana has worse long-term damage than oh say liver damage, mental depression, car accidents, and dont even think about trying to argue brain damage when alcohol is the leader in killing brain cells for that one. I agree on CNN being a sellout though...

I never said this was a WoW site. Saying that gold selling is legal because theres so many of them around is ignorant, no offense. For one, it is in no way profitable for Blizzard to file lawsuits or attempt to shut them down due to the fact it costs a company far more for attorney's than it would be worth. Why do you think occasionally you hear weird stories about people suing McDonald's and such for getting too fat or spilling something on themselves and winning large lumps of cash... The reason? Because the company would lose more for attorneys and paper work required so they settle the case outside of court. Anyway, they frequently ban gold farmers because it costs them nothing other than that subscription being nullified, and the employee being paid to press the big red ban button.

It is also very difficult to have jurisdiction of an outsourced website not in the United States, which a large majority of gold selling websites originate. Gold selling websites also do not run as a structured business, making it much harder to take class action lawsuits as you run into the problem of, "who is responsible". A good analogy would be Pirate Bay. So, just because they are doing it, doesn't mean its legal.

On top of that, ripping a model that wasn't created by you and that you don't have permission (By the creator or by law) to use is entirely against the rules here.

I believe you misunderstand my perspective. I do not condone piracy in any shape or form, I am stating that a lot of you saying "model exporting isn't allowed here is because its stealing, and bad" are a bunch of hypocrites when many like 'You' believe gold/account selling for the SAME game is alright when that is ACTUAL stealing because you are exploiting something you DO NOT own for profit. So for your last sentence stating the site does not allow model ripping because it is stealing, my whole point from the first post until now is that Hive looks down upon model stealing, but promotes site ads of actual profitable exploitation of Blizzard Entertainments intellectual property. It does not matter if you have paid for the game, everything in it is owned specifically by Blizzard. You can NOT sell gold for personal profit because it is considered an object, as well as code that is created and owned by again Blizzard.

Gold/account selling is very illegal, but just as Blizzard doing nothing about websites selling gold, they also do not find it worth taking action against anyone ripping models from WoW.
Theres a quite a few websites out there with WoW exported models and they have been around for a long time so that must mean it isn't illegal then, right?

And again, yes it is against the rules on Hive, and I am not disputing that choice... I was commenting on the hypocracy behind the choice to restrict model exporting while having a plethora of gold selling ads which is just as bad, if not worse since people make profit off it.

 

[BlinkBoy]

Let's make it clear for everyone's happiness:

Posting ripped material/speaking of techniques to ripp/ or anything related = BAN. That simple, go to nolife.com to post ripped shit, not here.

[as a side note: we wouldn't need those stupid adds if you guys would atleast stick 5 bucks at paypal for the site]

 

[Mechanical Man]

nolife.com is down apparently