when the map section will....

[rysnt11]

Hello, i feeling the map section have a bunch of wow rips in their imports, and i see some user have arguing about that, and i see a map moderator (i'd prefer to not say his name), want to clean up the map with wow rips
So i just wanna ask, when it will be held?
If some user or map maker, feel that this thread was meant to offense you, then just irgone this
And for map moderator, thanks for see and replying to this thread
Regards, with no offense,
-rysnt11-

 

[-Peper-]

Hmm, not only WOW rips. There are bunch of game rips on the approved maps.

 

[rysnt11]

I highly agree with you peper

 

[Aeroblyctos]

With the current speed of map moderators I would say it takes forever. Of course if they suddenly get some motivation and start checking maps it would still take months. There are so many maps to be tested and not much guys who actually have the motivation and time to do this.

 

[rysnt11]

Actually, can we just 'move' all the map that haven't been updated since last time (approx 2 - 4 years) then, start checking all the map that updated
Also, the mod can make a thread for gather info about the map, make it like request forum, so the forum always be on all the main forum

 

[Aeroblyctos]

If you have so much motivation towards the map section you should start to do that. Just ask from moderators permisssion and let's see how far you can go before you are exhausted and start to understand the job will take too much time and effort.

 

[Skycraft]

It won't be happening anytime soon.

 

[rysnt11]

Then make a rule, and a complaint thread

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Then make a rule, and a complaint thread

What?

 

[rysnt11]

If you have so much motivation towards the map section you should start to do that. Just ask from moderators permisssion and let's see how far you can go before you are exhausted and start to understand the job will take too much time and effort.

This

 

[Aeroblyctos]

I was talking about you. I don't have that time and effort to do such a thing. I have my own campaign which takes all my time. If you don't have anything special you can do this. At least you made this thread and started complaining.

 

[rysnt11]

Actually, i'm sick with all other user arguing about the wow rips...
I have 4 rpg that needs much attention, and i also have a terraining workshop running...

 

[Aeroblyctos]

You see?

No one wants to take responsibility of the map section. It's chaos in there: maps are just piling up. That's why I said it would take forever to fix the problem. Every time someone tries to do something there he just give up sooner or later releasing the job is somewhat impossible.

 

[rysnt11]

Hmm...
I see...
I'll contact the mods, i check the map

 

[Dr Super Good]

The rules are currently in a state of change about the use of WoW models or any resource from blizzard games so honestly map moderators should not be rejecting such resources for the time being.

Rips from other games not owned by blizzard though should be removed so feel free to report such maps.

 

[Rui]

What DSG wrote.

Personally, I don't play a lot of games outside Blizzard's universes, or not frequently, at least, so it's not always easy to recognize models from non-Blizzard games.

 

[-Kobas-]

Well I can't check maps every day, even when I do like today I need time, a lot of it.
I made errors, I can't moderate each map equally, you must understand that there are 2 many map types and things to check. Once when I found few critical errors I stop checking and reject map instantly. This is poor moderation because user won't know what's wrong about his map (I tell him to fix checked errors but what's with others missed). Sometimes user send me request to explain my actions (That is good thing because he care about his work) and I spare some time to check it again.
Year ago when I joined I checked maps and reported bad ones, there was large number of reviewers and users who actually rated and played uploaded maps, today no one care about them, few comments and even less downloads. I saw users upload their maps and never update them again or even log in

Today pending map page's number has been reduced from 25 (+ dozen maps) to 23 (+ few maps). Happy.
Note: You are free to report any not-working map, map with ripped imports etc etc any time.

Guys once and for all, if rule say NO, then DO NOT.
Why is so important to have model or 2 imported from some other game?
If tomorrow admins change it, OK, then do what you want

And for the end if you want change, start doing something, don't show with finger on staff members. Maybe we act smart sometimes when we should not, maybe we abuse our power sometimes, again, when we should not, but please contact admins, report, do what you want, just stop with "this" like threads.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

It's a shame that as long as this problem is, same type of threads will happen again.

 

[rysnt11]

@kobas: okay, i spare some of my time to check up all the long forgotten maps, and see if they have rips or not
@all moderator that have see, and replying this thread: thanks, and i will not make any more thread like this, thanks for your effort, i really appreaciate it!

 

[Orcnet]

just report maps with rips from other game and then you're settled, seriously

 

[-Kobas-]

Guys you are free to report any map that:
- Don't have author name (or it's Unknown).
- Don't have description (or few lines of text).
- Don't have type/category or other options set right.
- Map show any kind of racism/insulting/sex/porn etc etc.
- Map with empty terrain.
- Map with game crushing errors/bugs and such things.

Those will be rejected.

I check maps as much as I can, http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=pendingstats

 

[SA Dashie]

What if the game is terrained during the game?
just saying it before some idiot reports a map like that...

 

[rysnt11]

You mean the host create terrain (placing doodad, boss, and everything on the map), when played in bnet or lan?

 

[-Kobas-]

Generated terrain is fail.
There is no script that can do it better than human. (At least for wc3)

Even maps that use triggers/scripts to do so must have at least something already created.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Generated terrain is fail.
There is no script that can do it better than human. (At least for wc3)

Even maps that use triggers/scripts to do so must have at least something already created.

Actually you're wrong. Kitabatake has made an incredible map with generated terrain and it actually looks and fits with the theme very well. The terrain is a lot better than average noob terrain made by a human.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/uncharted-waters-1-30b-87297/?prev=d%3Dlist%26r%3D20%26u%3Dkitabatake

 

[-Kobas-]

One map in 1000. And I bet that some terrainer can make it look at least 2 times better than script right now.
And I was speaking about advanced terrainer not beginner.
Just generate something like this:

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Yeah well I agree that there is no script that can do it better than human.

 

[Arisato]

Maps Section
Map Name: Warlock

Terraining done by triggers : )

 

[Vehster]

It is simple enough to script terrain a map better then ummm a human?

Technically your still scripting terrain when your using the terrain editor since your still putting code on the cube of the map.

 

[-Kobas-]

I checked some more maps today...

Date	Diff.	Pending	Submitted
2011-06-17	-25	413	3
2011-06-16	+3	438	4
2011-06-15	+1	435	4
2011-06-14	-10	434	2
2011-06-13	-6	444	5

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/apps.php?p=pendingstats

 

[Archian]

If users discover a map submitted to the Hive Workshop that does not meet the nesscary requirements for it to be approved or finds it to be directly in violation of the map submission rules:

Users should be encouraged to either report the map, make a post with a list of bugs to inform the author AND map moderators in the map-thread, or politely inform the respective user that what he/she are doing is in violation to the map submission rules (include link). Last is only if a moderator hasn't responded within a week after it's submission date. Generally regular users shouldn't act as police, leave that to the moderators.

On a slightly note, while browsing the map section I don't see an option for users to report the map, only the map-thread:

This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.

Forgive me if I have missed something, but where do people report maps?

EDIT:

When looking at the rules presented to users who intends to submit a map. These are the rules that shows up:

General Resource Rules Summary

Cite your sources.
Make sure it works.
No works in progress.
Have all necessary permission.
Don't cry because your resource was rejected. Moderators are there for a reason.
Map Specifics

Don't submit other people's maps.
Again, no WIPs. Maps must be close to a final product. Everything must be ready to go.

You might wanna include "NO WOW EXPORTS OR GAME RIPS".. These are the first rules people see when submitting a map: it says nothing of game exports etc. Those rules should be listed along with the current ones which, in my opinion, should be considered rewritten and include careful details. Seeing as the current ones seem kind of, sloppy...

 

[Jazztastic]

If you have so much motivation towards the map section you should start to do that. Just ask from moderators permisssion and let's see how far you can go before you are exhausted and start to understand the job will take too much time and effort.

And for the end if you want change, start doing something, don't show with finger on staff members. Maybe we act smart sometimes when we should not, maybe we abuse our power sometimes, again, when we should not, but please contact admins, report, do what you want, just stop with "this" like threads.

Hello, i feeling the map section have a bunch of wow rips in their imports, and i see some user have arguing about that, and i see a map moderator (i'd prefer to not say his name), want to clean up the map with wow rips

There are a few individuals who could help with the map section for moderating. Maybe the requirements (I don't know if there are actually any) for being a map moderator should be dropped a little, and more moderators should be made. Even just two or three more would drastically cut down the pending maps, and imagine the feedback people would get on their maps. Let a few people try being a mod. It would also solve the problem for illegal imported material, one click look in the "import" tab and you can find WoW resources. One of the more experienced map moderators (apocalypse and kobas come to mind) could monitor them for a week or two to make sure theyre actually being fair. It's a simple plan, and I think it would work wonders for the 20+ pages of pending maps.

 

[rysnt11]

I think, the requirtment is good as it, the moderator just need some underling, like a raider commanding a grunt
they may search, or made a contest to choose a (or more than 1) user that can be their underling, the underling it self, given the power to moderating, but not rejecting or accepting a map, then the moderator could easily see the description given by their underling to decide, whether a map is good enough to be approved or not
Still, it's just a suggestion..

 

[Boris_Spider]

I think, the requirtment is good as it, the moderator just need some underling, like a raider commanding a grunt
they may search, or made a contest to choose a (or more than 1) user that can be their underling, the underling it self, given the power to moderating, but not rejecting or accepting a map, then the moderator could easily see the description given by their underling to decide, whether a map is good enough to be approved or not
Still, it's just a suggestion..

They already have those, they go by the name "Reviewers." One or two of them are helpful, but the majority of them rate the map's descripttion and move on - useless.

How could one have the power of a map mod but the not the ability to approve/reject maps? What would these min-mods do?

//\\0o//\\

 

[rysnt11]

The min-mod (underlings) are those who choosed by the moderator they self, to help them review a map, those min mod, can make a moderation, but no power to reject, cuz they are under command of the moderator him self

 

[Boris_Spider]

The min-mod (underlings) are those who choosed by the moderator they self, to help them review a map, those min mod, can make a moderation, but no power to reject, cuz they are under command of the moderator him self

To moderate a map is to approve it or reject it based on whether it functions properly with the most recent patch and doesn't contain illegal material. Anything else would either be reviewing, spamming, or flaming.

//\\oo//\\

 

[rysnt11]

Reviewing, and check whether the map has an illegal material

 

[Jazztastic]

But by reviewing it, you basically can accept or reject it. When you review it, you have to open the map and play it, look through the triggers, etc. Maps get rejected for having illegal material in them, being broken, or just being terrible. I'm personally still in favor of having a bunch of mods that are overlooked by experienced ones. Give the more responsible members of the community the power to help shape their community. People who actually care will try to the best of their abilities to review maps and give honest reviews.

 

[rysnt11]

Actually, that's what i want to mean..
But, nvm, hope mods reads our disscussion..

 

[-Peper-]

Actually, all people could review. They can vote for Approval and Reject. Not just mods...

 

[Jazztastic]

Yeah but writing a 2 page review then saying "vote for approval" or "vote for rejection" only works if the map has been seen by a mod . . . I know i've posted reviews for a few pending maps that haven't even been replied to by the person who amde the map

 

[Rui]

Well, you've got the Map Reviewers social group. If I see someone working right towards that, including team working and whatnot, I'll be sure to consider that individual for moderator.

 

[Vehster]

I kind of been working with Cweener to fix this issue, hopefully I will get back to reviewing...

My reviews work and are official and are correct, so I would hope if Kobas saw one of my reviews he would act as what I reviewed with,
If not then I guess it is extra time because I have the ability to review a map fully inside out in a few minutes.

I was busy helping people in Bnet with stuff, I shall get back to map reviewing soon.

It also seems the requirements for a map mod is to be known by almost everyone while having 800+ posts and 50+ rep and more but the rest wouldn't be nice to say.

 

[Rui]

I like to do a joint activity in map reviewing, hear everybody's opinion on the reviewed resource. Plus having a group gives you some freedom on the map choice since you do not need to worry about people leaving. That's why I pointed to the Map Reviewers social group.

 

[Ironside]

I have decided to continue where I stopped after the map purge event.
Guess I'll just review and then send the list to moderators like I did back then.

This may be a little offtopic, but what is the current function of Mark Review?

 

[Jazztastic]

because I have the ability to review a map fully inside out in a few minutes.

Nothing that was created after hundreds of hours of work could have a quality review written for it in a few minutes. If by this you mean that you can tell if the resource should be rejected in only a few minutes, I agree with that. Otherwise, quality reviews on quality material takes a while. You have to absorb the material, play it a few times, then take a break for a few days and digest it. When you've fully thought it through, and see every detail and aspect in a map, then you can write a full and good review.

 

[Vehster]

Actually it could, for hundreds of hours does not compare to quality of a persons skill, however I usually give bonus points for people who spent hours upon hours of work into their maps.

Quality reviews don't take long and I even have my own template for all different ones while I give the chance for people to ask for my advanced reviews and why should I have to absorb something and play it more then once or twice while giving who I review the chance to contact me and ask any question about my reviews and my reviews can change at any time if the map is updated.

I notice every detail and aspect quickly... So that is why it takes most people so long to review... breaks...

Well for me I can say your comment is incorrect but for others sure.

 

[-Kobas-]

Nothing that was created after hundreds of hours of work could have a quality review written for it in a few minutes. If by this you mean that you can tell if the resource should be rejected in only a few minutes, I agree with that. Otherwise, quality reviews on quality material takes a while. You have to absorb the material, play it a few times, then take a break for a few days and digest it. When you've fully thought it through, and see every detail and aspect in a map, then you can write a full and good review.

You are right but so far there would be around 500 moderated maps in whole THW history.
We can't spend so much time on single map.

Actually it could, for hundreds of hours does not compare to quality of a persons skill, however I usually give bonus points for people who spent hours upon hours of work into their maps.

Quality reviews don't take long and I even have my own template for all different ones while I give the chance for people to ask for my advanced reviews and why should I have to absorb something and play it more then once or twice while giving who I review the chance to contact me and ask any question about my reviews and my reviews can change at any time if the map is updated.

I notice every detail and aspect quickly... So that is why it takes most people so long to review... breaks...

Well for me I can say your comment is incorrect but for others sure.

You are right as well, I was able to write really big and detailed review in only 20 min. But even then I wasn't able to test map completely or give advices related to balance (especially long maps with 100 creep waves, AOS maps with 100 different heroes etc etc).

So point is that you are both right, but unfortunately (just like in real life) we must take a little from good and bad just to work somehow.

Also I would like to post announcement:
THW PENDING MAP LIST HAS BELOW 400 MAPS (19 pages).
Today with some Ironside help we checked around 50 maps. (Thank you once again)
Numbers will go down drastically now so please be patient your map will be checked soon.

 

[Jazztastic]

Hooray! Less than 400 maps!

EDIT: Realistically, a map review should be around half an hour. The luxury of multiple days per map isn't an option, like Kobas said there would be very few maps with a review. However, I firmly believe that you can't review a map in under ten minutes. I'm not saying that spending more time on it will make it quality, but a GOOD review would have all aspects of a game included in it, so people reading it can fully comprehend the quality of the map. Map reviews aren't just for the creators, while it is nice and they SHOULD receive information on what needs to be fixed, they are actually for the public. It helps the public make up their mind as to whether the map is worth downloading. People make a living off of writing formal reviews on movies, games, novels, and anything else that is reviewable.

 

[Vehster]

A map review depends on the person, there is many maps now that has responses in the pending section and I am working from the end pages to the start to attempt to review and report back to Cweener.

My reviews have all the needed aspects of any map I review, which is why my reviews don't match all maps mainly my advanced ones.

I always list what needs to be fixed, maybe sometimes I forget to list some balance issue's but I always do write down the important things to be fixed.

Indeed however this is warcraft where we work for free while blizzard sits there with their whips, so reviews don't go as important as they need to be when outside of warcraft.

My way of reviewing is a quick look in-game then I extract the script and usually rebuild the MPQ to fully grade the map and report back to make the review on their map page or if I don' have time currently I take a quick look inside the main script and just read then say will get back later.