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What happens after death?

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Level 12
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When you die, your body will fertilize a tree, and then a human will cut down the tree, sell it, and the Bible will be printed on you. In which case the Bible will be burned as Hitler Jr. comes to power and starts killing all Christians since they are the cause of all evil. Afterward, the ashes (you) will then fertilize a man eating plant that will consume Hitler Jr. and therefore you will have been turned into a cannibal. Upon Hitler Jr. being consumed, Christians will take their revenge on all who believe in a flying spaghetti monster being the creator of the universe. The FSM disciples will pray to the pasta for help, and nothing will happen until they're all dead. No more pirates will exist and global warming + hurricanes + earthquakes will consume the earth. And thus, by your death do you condemn all of humanity to die! Cockroaches will be the only surviving species with plenty of food to eat (humans anyone?). Since God doesn't like Cockroaches even though he created them, he will turn them into pillars of salt. Plants will then die from too much salt in the soil and the earth will become a barren wasteland. Good day
 
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Also a question to Catholics its you guys that believe in Heaven & Hell correct? And are you the only ones that believe in this method?
Plenty of people have had beliefs in a "heaven" and "hell", although Christians have a somewhat unique idea of it.
 
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I am familiar with at least two religions that state that if you do not follow those religions, you go to hell. Therefore, everybody goes to hell.
 
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Grounding someone for thinking for themself is forcing your beliefs down their throats.
Sure. But by the point that they are doing something that would cause you to ground them, I'd say that shoving isn't going to do anything.
/\
||

This
/\
||

That.
In addition I'd like to add that this is a pointless discussion since one side refuses to see it from the other sides view
I'd hate to be one of those. :S
I think topics like these can seriously ruin friendships.
What kind of idiot judges people based on beliefs that don't hold any relevance in this realm? It's like judging me for not wanting to break a mirror in case it really does mean seven years bad luck.
statistics
*A-HEM*
there's a distinct difference between a higher being and a god.
I agree, but as long as it's outside this universe, how are we supposed to tell if it's at the top?
The body when it is broken or defiled by disease is like a computer with messed up wires, and the soul is like the hard drive.
I'd say the microprocessor is more akin to a soul. The connection to the RAM, hard drives, peripherals, etc. may be gone, but that processor still has use.
 
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Ok, let's end this once and for all... and by that, I have some questions for you all believing.

• Why send all that are unfaithful to God to hell? How come they do not deserve the same fate
as the others? No matter how nice and unselfish you've been through your life, you will still come to hell unless you believe in God.
A God, in which demands you to have a boring life, make your whole day
according to the bible and having regrets because you're not good enogh.

• According to some religious people, animals have no soul. And it actually makes sense, because on all paintings of the afterlife I have never seen an animal. However, this is kinda unfair for many reasons. First of all, they shouldn't have to care about going to hell or heaven... I think. And secondly we already know that we act just like animals in many cases so really, what makes them different?

• If God believes that a man and a woman should marry and not the opposite how come he ever created them as such? Sure, in some cases you were treated to like your own gender but mostly you're born with it.

• Now this is a little blur for me but when I had my confirmation I believe we read something about the death of Jesus and that they who said that they didn't believe in what he said were spared and they who said they did believe, were killed. All because they wanted to live with God in afterlife. Yeah, that's very kind of God don't you think?

• Now it's getting really stupid and this is what me and Elenai were talking about. At least from my part... and that's the theory that everything came from Adam and Eve!? Well, it's just ridiculous. That would mean that we're all from the same foundation and it would cause a huge inbreeding. Also it's funny that he never mentioned the beings that lived before us such as the dinosaurs. It also says that he created the universe for mankind... but we've only been around here for about 300 000 years and the universe... OUR universe isn't less than 13.7 billion years! Make sense to you? Now, I haven't read this myself but according to old beliefs, the universe isn't more than 6000 years old... eh..

PS. I haven't re-read this post so there might be some errors.
 
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I fail to see how this has anything to do with the arguement.
I said I do not believe in things that aren't proven, or have been tested and are generally seen as true because no-one has been able to falsify(that's the word?) it.
Even if brown does not exist, then why is there a word for it? If it's an abstract thing like time, does it matter? As long as you can count the seconds that we've made up, why can't I see the colors we made up.
You can't touch brown, but you know what it is.
Colors are colors, that's just how it is. They're words, meant to describe how we see something.

But how do you know what you see really exists? Take the colour magenta, for example. Pink. Pink doesn't exist. Why? Because it's not a part of the spectrum of light. But then how come we can see it? In order to see a colour like yellow, you have to have multiple wavelengths hitting the retina at once. To see the yellow in a banana, you need to have both blue and green wavelengths hitting the retina at the same time. But what happens when red and violet wavelengths hit the retina? The brain has two options: It can either show you green, which isn't remotely close to a mix between red and violet, or it can invent an entirely new colour half way between red and violet. Magenta is an example of the brain choosing to do the latter.

Case in point. Does magenta exist? No, but you would say it does, since you can see it. But it's a complete fabrication created by your brain.
 
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Originally Posted by shadow3
I fail to see how this has anything to do with the arguement.
I said I do not believe in things that aren't proven, or have been tested and are generally seen as true because no-one has been able to falsify(that's the word?) it.
Falsify God.

Even if brown does not exist, then why is there a word for it?
If God does not exist, why is there a word for it?

If it's an abstract thing like time, does it matter? As long as you can count the seconds that we've made up, why can't I see the colors we made up.
Why can't I believe in the God we've made up? (not that we actually made it up)

You can't touch brown, but you know what it is.
Colors are colors, that's just how it is. They're words, meant to describe how we see something.
You can't touch God, but you know who he is.
God is God, and that's how it is.

: )
 
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Gilles said:
Falsify God.
It hasn't been tested and shown to work, so that doesn't apply to his argument.

Gilles said:
If God does not exist, why is there a word for it?
Because the idea of god exists.

Gilles said:
Why can't I believe in the God we've made up? (not that we actually made it up)
You evidently can, as you do seem to. That doesn't make it real though.

Gilles said:
You can't touch God, but you know who he is.
God is God, and that's how it is.
Yes, we do know what the idea of god is. But that doesn't prove its existence.

Hakeem said:
Sure. But by the point that they are doing something that would cause you to ground them, I'd say that shoving isn't going to do anything.
But the 'or else' threat will often stop them from doing it.

Hakeem said:
Ohshi- :p

Just responding to his post which implied the same, but yeah, you got me there.

--

brad, does the fact that we can see it not make it to some extent real?
 
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Poot, I was just pointing out holes in his post. I know most of what I said doesn't hold much water.
 
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To the Atheists,

You're trying to destroy a system that already exists. By believing in God, it helps us to live our life. Most atheists I know of either have a life that sucks, emotional, and very complicated. So why don't you just admit that God exists, I mean whether he exists or not the whole point is to find out, not getting the answer. If you answer God doesn't exist then you have to justify it and I bet Einstein can't even find that reasoning. Same goes to my point, I'm not saying God exists, I actually believe its an idea that came from us. But it helps us to question the very existence of life, motivate us to keep going. Else you will be at the bottom of the society, trust me, most great people who are very very smart even believe in God.
 
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Just because it's not in the spectrum doesn't prove its unexistence. White and black
aren't in the spectrum either but you know they exist. Even your almighty bible says that...

Because the spectrum of light actually exists. We know that there are waves of light, nanometers in length, and that the specific length of each wave determines the colour.

When you see black, it's the absence of light. When you see white, it's light, period.

With magenta, what you're seeing is an illusion. It's an illusion that can't be defied, because it's brought about by our brains. Without us even realizing it.

If our brain creates a fictional colour, does that make it real? I don't think so, I think it means that we all suffer the same collective illusion.
 
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To the Atheists,

You're trying to destroy a system that already exists. By believing in God, it helps us to live our life. Most atheists I know of either have a life that sucks, emotional, and very complicated. So why don't you just admit that God exists, I mean whether he exists or not the whole point is to find out, not getting the answer. If you answer God doesn't exist then you have to justify it and I bet Einstein can't even find that reasoning. Same goes to my point, I'm not saying God exists, I actually believe its an idea that came from us. But it helps us to question the very existence of life, motivate us to keep going. Else you will be at the bottom of the society, trust me, most great people who are very very smart even believe in God.
My life doesn't suck, nor does that or any of my friends.

Well, depending on how you define suck of course.

--

Most great people that are very very smart such as?

--

brad, white is in the same category as magenta.
 
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My life doesn't suck, nor does that or any of my friends.

Well, depending on how you define suck of course.

--

Most great people that are very very smart such as?

--

brad, white is in the same category as magenta.

Well was I refering to u?

--

The word must does not refer to everyone.

--

Its too many to list all the names of the great people, you can search it in wikipedia or google to find it out.
 
Level 35
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• Why send all that are unfaithful to God to hell? How come they do not deserve the same fate
as the others? No matter how nice and unselfish you've been through your life, you will still come to hell unless you believe in God.
A God, in which demands you to have a boring life, make your whole day
according to the bible and having regrets because you're not good enogh.

God does not send you to Hell, you go there yourself.

God gives you a choice while you are on Earth: Live with me, or not. If you don't you'll not be on my lawn either (Earth being the lawn)

So you go to Hell, which is only Hell because other evil people live there, and 'make it Hell'.

Hell is essentially just another place, used to separate those who have chosen to be separate from God. It is not God's fault, that the people who happen to live in this place, retain their sinful natures, and make life Hell.

• According to some religious people, animals have no soul. And it actually makes sense, because on all paintings of the afterlife I have never seen an animal. However, this is kinda unfair for many reasons. First of all, they shouldn't have to care about going to hell or heaven... I think. And secondly we already know that we act just like animals in many cases so really, what makes them different?

According to SOME.

And what makes an animal different from a human..."Perception of Right and Wrong, and the accountability that comes from it".

• If God believes that a man and a woman should marry and not the opposite how come he ever created them as such? Sure, in some cases you were treated to like your own gender but mostly you're born with it.

Pardon?

• Now this is a little blur for me but when I had my confirmation I believe we read something about the death of Jesus and that they who said that they didn't believe in what he said were spared and they who said they did believe, were killed. All because they wanted to live with God in afterlife. Yeah, that's very kind of God don't you think?

....yeah....I've never heard of that...

Martyrs have been killed by non believers...but I don't think God has ever directly killed any of his followers.

• Now it's getting really stupid and this is what me and Elenai were talking about. At least from my part... and that's the theory that everything came from Adam and Eve!? Well, it's just ridiculous. That would mean that we're all from the same foundation and it would cause a huge inbreeding. Also it's funny that he never mentioned the beings that lived before us such as the dinosaurs. It also says that he created the universe for mankind... but we've only been around here for about 300 000 years and the universe... OUR universe isn't less than 13.7 billion years! Make sense to you? Now, I haven't read this myself but according to old beliefs, the universe isn't more than 6000 years old... eh..

Young Earth Creationism, is not the same as Old Earth Creationism, lets keep that in mind :)

I am an OEC, Intelligent Design Supporter, with a leaning towards Evolutionary biology.
 
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Level 40
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Well was I refering to u?

--

The word must does not refer to everyone.

--

Its too many to list all the names of the great people, you can search it in wikipedia or google to find it out.
Your post implied your life tends to suck if you are an atheist.

--

List at least a couple.

Elenai said:
He's referring to gays and lesbians.
 
Level 6
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Does magenta exist? No, but you would say it does, since you can see it. But it's a complete fabrication created by your brain.

The point here being, "since you can see it". If you see a rock, is that a tree? No, it's a rock. Obviously.
Magenta exists, want to know why? Because we can see it, doesn't matter if it's not part of the spectrum, because we've got eyes and a brain that combines and mixes and whatnot, so that we see something, which we decided we're going to call pink, and that's just how we work. If aliens landed in my backyard and couldn't see pink, we'd still have a word for it, because we can see pink.

That might be a little confusing, so here's something that's maybe easier to understand.

Time doesn't exist. We still have clocks that show the time. It's something we have made up, because it's convenient to have a word and definition for.

Now you can go "but what is time" and I wouldn't be able to answer that, but you know what time is yourself, so it would be a stupid question in my opinion. Sorry :p
 
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On proving/disproving God:

One cannot prove without first disproving. Thus, one cannot prove God exists without first proving that he doesn't. However, there are no means of actually proving God's existence to anyone but yourself, as any "proof" that can be made is subject to belief/faith. Thus this is a paradox.

Please, paradoxes are not fun to debate, especially when half the people refuse to acknowledge that it is, indeed, a paradox.
 
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On proving/disproving God:

One cannot prove without first disproving. Thus, one cannot prove God exists without first proving that he doesn't. However, there are no means of actually proving God's existence to anyone but yourself, as any "proof" that can be made is subject to belief/faith. Thus this is a paradox.

Please, paradoxes are not fun to debate, especially when half the people refuse to acknowledge that it is, indeed, a paradox.


Also that it is Faith that makes this a to unstable debate subject.

As someone who truly believes in God and still thinks this is a paradox, there are great measures of faith that you must have to believe in something like that. But, its just like putting faith in if you believe in evolution, or believe in Egyptian gods. You must always put faith in something unless its 100% proved and I have not seen any like this yet.

Also holy drama guys..
 
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.. paradoxes are not fun to debate, ..

Believe I said something about that earlier, but I got carried away.

I refuse to believe in God, because I'd rather trust science.

And with that, I'm out of this (IMO) silly discussion.
 
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To the Atheists,

You're trying to destroy a system that already exists. By believing in God, it helps us to live our life. Most atheists I know of either have a life that sucks, emotional, and very complicated. So why don't you just admit that God exists, I mean whether he exists or not the whole point is to find out, not getting the answer. If you answer God doesn't exist then you have to justify it and I bet Einstein can't even find that reasoning. Same goes to my point, I'm not saying God exists, I actually believe its an idea that came from us. But it helps us to question the very existence of life, motivate us to keep going. Else you will be at the bottom of the society, trust me, most great people who are very very smart even believe in God.


In response to DoOs_101



The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
- Bernard Shaw

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
- Benjamin Franklin

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”
- Thomas Jefferson'

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
- Albert Einstein

"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it The truth is the truth
even if no one believes it."
- Anon
"I count religion but a childish toy, And hold there is no sin but ignorance."

- Christopher Marlowe

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.
- Richard Dawkins

It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me,
it is the parts that I do understand.
- Mark Twain

Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine.
- Arthur Schopenhauer
 
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Yeah in response to ehm... BlackHobo...

Those quotes didn't mention anything about... God.

Rather it tries to attack the sense of relligion. God is not relligion. So you're post is rather saying the most great people are agnostic? That is true, I'm agnostic too, but I still believe in God.
 
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FFS. I'm /emoquitting this thread. I have seriously had it with this same shit back and forth over and over. Also, what the truth is doesn't matter, what people act on does.
 
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Yeah in response to ehm... BlackHobo...

Those quotes didn't mention anything about... God.

Rather it tries to attack the sense of relligion. God is not relligion. So you're post is rather saying the most great people are agnostic? That is true, I'm agnostic too, but I still believe in God.

depends how u define god.

And no about half were atheists.

agnostic means u dont know if god exists. so u cant "believe" in god and be an agnostic.
 
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Agnostic means you choose to believe something, but acknowledge that you cannot prove the basis of your beliefs to be factual. It is possible to be agnostic theist and agnostic atheist.

... Okay, now I'm /emoquitting the thread.
 
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I think a bit too many atheists (I'm an atheist too) believe that science some how cancels the existence of god. Modern science does contradict some of the teachings in the Bible, but then agan the bible was written by a man so it can be wrong. However in my opinnion God could easily exist alongside science and things like evolution.

However I choose not to believe in God mostly because I do not see a reason to believe in God for myself. To me god does not exist but to someone else god might exist, and that is fine with me (even if this sounds strange).
 
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What happens after death is FSM and IPU have an epic fight lasting many millenia, yet lasting only an instant, across seventeen planes of alternate existence for control of your soul. Upon the conclusion of said epic fight, you are returned to Its/Her saucy/HAWT goodness, for purposes unknown. This is true because I say so, and I probably have Shados or someone else of comparable awesomeness to vouch for me.

I would vouch for it. It is about as possible as every other explanaton I have heard.

What is 'knowing' but believing with a good amount of evidence to back it up? :/

I would argue that 'knowing' something means you can explain it with a series of valid logical arguments which are eventually founded on a self-evident truth (for an example of one, there is always the useful: I think, therefore I am).


Regarding the origin of the cosmos, I believe myself the only person to have ever given a complete answer. It involves "something" coming from "nothing." Somehow I manage to keep it within the realm of logic. Imagine that. Or, you know, shrug it off thinking nobody will ever find an answer and that mine is automatically wrong despite you not knowing my logic. Many great things happen by people refusing to try.

Personally, I am not accepting your argument because you have put forward to me neither premises nor conclusion. You have made several vague statements about having come to a logical explanation for the origin of the cosmos, but I have yet to see it. Do explain your argument.
 
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I would argue that 'knowing' something means you can explain it with a series of valid logical arguments which are eventually founded on a self-evident truth (for an example of one, there is always the useful: I think, therefore I am).
I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with Elenai or not. What you said doesn't contradict anything he said as far as I can tell. Granted what he said was rather vague.

I would vouch for it. It is about as possible as every other explanaton I have heard.
That is a pretty bold statement. What is it you believe?
 
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Gilles said:
That is a pretty bold statement. What is it you believe?
How is it pretty bold? It strikes me as fairly evident - any story you come up with based on no factual evidence is pretty much equally likely to any other story you come up with based on no factual evidence (All hail the celestial teapot).

--

I think Richard Dawkins' quote best illustrates the situation and Ephy's point that what matters is not the truth, but how people act.
 
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Objective empirical evidence is what I meant, Gilles.
Unfortunately I don't fully understand empirical evidence, and I don't think it would be wise for me to tread there without a good grasp of it. Besides, I don't think you can rely on it in all cases. How can you use it to prove the existence of love?
 
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Watching chemical reactions occur inside someone's brain. Besides, love inside oneself is self-evident, as the term "love" is given to an arbitrary feeling we know we feel (think back to I think, therefore I am) whether or not we know it exists outside ourselves.
I'll concede the brain bit, although I don't know that proves much.

I believe it to be self-evident that there is a super natural. Evidence (largely experience) leads me to believe in the Catholic Church.
 
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But you cannot take something subjective (emotion, feeling, experience) and apply it to something objective (existence in reality). It just logically doesn't follow, for reasons which should be obvious.
I think it's makes perfect sense. Also, you draw a lot of your "objectiveness", from experience.
 
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Elenai said:
And the scale in reality? :p
His "scale of atheism" had 1 as fundamentalist religious and 4 as completely undecided agnostic, so it went all the way across.

Elenai said:
Care to elaborate anyway? :p
Because subjective is that which strictly pertains to oneself, or one's interpretation of something. For example, I could taste some food say "the food is hot", but you might taste the same food and say "the food is cold". Why? Because our definitions of "hot" and "cold", as well as our perceptions of reality, differ. Seeing as love is a strictly subjective phenomenon, you can prove it using subjective reasoning. However, god, if s/he/it were to exist, would be an objective phenomenon, and thus subjective reasoning doesn't pertain to it as it isn't within the same reference frame (another example, imagine trying to accurately measure pressure with some random thermometer. Finally, take the issue of colourblindess; two different people (subjectively) perceive the same light (objective) differently - the objective truth is that the light is wavelength X, while the subjective truth varies by the person you ask).

Does that clear things up?

Gilles said:
I think it's makes perfect sense. Also, you draw a lot of your "objectiveness", from experience.
Which is why you get several independent people to test theories before you trust them.
 
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I'll concede the brain bit, although I don't know that proves much.

I believe it to be self-evident that there is a super natural. Evidence (largely experience) leads me to believe in the Catholic Church.

Love is a natural part of life; leading to overall seduction and extreme attraction (in most cases) to the opposite sex, which later leads to reproduction and the continuation of the human race.
 
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