Warcraft III - Fall of Outland

[Vosty]

You know a lot about lore Alagremm.
I DO hope this happens, and If I ever get done with my project (which has no actuall maps yet) I will come here to Jass.
Good luck, and get a guy to make a mod!

 

[AIagremm]

Ok, now I need you to make a desicion people:
You need to choose, do I need to start the project, or not.

Plus I have heard the rumors that there can be 3 races in a mod.
So people, do we need to leave the ogres, or will there be four races as there need to be(I note that ogres may be one of the things why people would like the project)

 

[Vosty]

You gotta get a FEW more people, then start. Right now you got a kind of shaky team.
People might like ogres, but in your game they are a simple throw-on.
Ogres should either gt a larger role, or be left in the dust. A race that doesn't have a main campaign is a little pointless.

 

[izaiphovias]

Of course you need to start it Alagremm, but as vosty said, you'll need some more people to help you.
And about the ogres, well, even if they are pointless, a "complete" mod would be better, even if one of the races would only serve as tutorial. But try to use your lorekeeper imagination dude, you can find something better than ogres.

 

[Vosty]

xbacurix got it right. =D

 

[AIagremm]

I agree with xbacurix. And as I said, they will have an important role in the campaign, however usually only as enemies(Ogres became part of the Horde only in Second War), but I'll try my best.
By starting the project I mean that I will start recruiting people for it.

{EDIT}
You can check out the project thread here.
People, if you can be of any help, or if you know somebody looking for a project, please go to this thread.

 

[Mulgrim]

Of course you need to start it Alagremm, but as vosty said, you'll need some more people to help you.
And about the ogres, well, even if they are pointless, a "complete" mod would be better, even if one of the races would only serve as tutorial. But try to use your lorekeeper imagination dude, you can find something better than ogres.

Mok'nathal would have been good, but not enough lore i think. or at least to contribute to the large plot/rise of things (Dark Portal).

 

[AIagremm]

Right, I forgot them!
However they cant be one of the main playable races.
But we will make a moknathal mini-race(Like naga race)for the campaign.

But from now on, you write in the project recruitment.

 

[resamar]

. . .but but but but but it was my idea. i was making a campaign of that. . .( OK so it sucks out loud and i haven't worked on it in a while, ) BUT STILL!, i would like to help with the voice recording.

{EDIT 1}
i gotta say. ogres are in fact an easy race to throw into ANY map. as there are many many buildings that can be used IN GAME as ogre buildings, and there are already ogre models. the way i see it is that if i remember right from Lore though. Ogres did play an important role in the coming of the horde. i understand your difficult choice. i say drop the ogres, but put them in the maps as a neutral hostile race.

{EDIT 2}
another problem is though. the Moknathal are half orc half Ogre. in a way they are an important Lore Piece ( although you may be able to avoid bringing up connection to that lore ). the Moknathal where pacifists. believe it or not. so adding them as a mini race wouldn't follow heavily into lore. ( Rexxar was the only exception. as he went with the horde and his father Leoroxx disowned him ). HOWEVER. making them a Neutral Passive township that constantly pop up in the mod as a place to buy and recieve a couple quests wouldnt be a bad idea. i got some good ideas so if your ever in a creative jam maybe i can help.

 

[AIagremm]

First - Dont triple-post resamar.
Second - we are making a mod
Third - It is easy to make their units, but it would be hard to make their buildings.
Four - Ogre did have a part in the Rise of the Horde, but not that big. So they stay.
Five - Mok'Nathal will be neutral passive sometimes in the maps, and campign neutral in some missions.

 

[Joss]

So, have you confirmed the fact that mods can only have 3 races, or is it just a rumor?

 

[AIagremm]

4 races. I wanted to confirm that mods can have only 4 races.
No idea, but I guess that you can programm even two races.
So the ogres stay. Now that I found them a place in the storyline, Im sure they will stay.

 

[El_Suave]

I still think the idea of a mod is too big. We should start by doing the campaigns as if everything were being made into custom campaigns. Worry about the mod after we've done all the campaigns.

 

[izaiphovias]

We are making the campaing, whow many times i must say that!!!! We are planing the races so we can launch the campaing... (a demo campaing, but still a campaing)

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too.
I mean that we should make a demo first then campigns then the mod.

 

[El_Suave]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too.
I mean that we should make a demo first then campigns then the mod.

That would be the ideal path to take. Trying to tackle everything at once would be chaotic and suicide. I'm down with being more serious on the project once we have a proper outline on how things are going to be done. It's not that hard:

-Prologue (Tutorial)

-Act I (Race 1)
Chapters
Chapters
-Act II(Race 2)

etc...

Making and finishing the prologue would be the biggest step for us since it would show that we are making progress with the story.

 

[Cthulus]

Agreed.
Sounds okay to me.

 

[izaiphovias]

Yeap, this is easy, the hard part is to find the campaings stories, what they will tell about, how it will hapenn, and so on...

 

[Evillizard]

Ive finnaly read all of the comments
1. Some people are saying that Chogall should be in the Tutorial (Ogre) campaign, but Chogall was not an Ogre Magi until Warcraft II when Gul'dan fused Ogres with magic from the Elven Runestone (I might be wrong, but im pretty sure thats it)
2. You might consider making the ogres one of the bigger campaigns and having the Mok'nothal as the tutorial campaign.
3. Its a pretty good project overall. Id like to give a hand in it, I can terrain (Decently, not perfect like those uber maps, but I can terrain decently), Trigger (I do know triggering, but I cant exactly do Custom Spells with all big boom boom effects, I can make cinimatics, but I wouldnt do that good of a job ) and I can skin. Sadly, I cant make a mod though
4. I may be wrong, but dont you also need to make skins for terrain?

 

[FlowerofSpeech]

An interesting idea, however, since the originator of this project lacks any definite skill and wants to bite off more than he can chew (6 campaigns? plus a new UI, models, skins, etc.) I don't have much optimism for this project. Besides, there have been many of these campaign/race mods that have never come to fruition, I'd prefer to see you guys come up with a tech tree, some models, then start building your campaign.

I mean, by tech tree:

Example
Orcs - Shamanistic or Warlock Based?

Tier 1: Axe Melee Unit (Moderate cost) (Uses Stormreaver grunt model), Spear Ranged Unit (Moderate cost) (uses hawk scout model?) (Requires Mill),
Upgrades: Hunter Training (Spear Ranged unit can transform into Melee unit),
Cleave (Axe Unit can cause its target to bleed for damage over time)
Tier 2: Utility Unit (Requires Mill), Tier 2 Melee/Ranged (Requires Research V), Spellcaster A (Has Spell X can learn spell W), Spellcaster B (Has Spell Y, can learn spell Z), Siege, Light Air Unit
Tier 3: Heavy Melee Unit, Spellcasters get 2 more spells, Heavy Air unit
Upgrades: Increase Tier 1 unit's strength, Give Heavy Melee passive, give Heavy Air unit active/passive ability, Base Defense Upgrade (like Tower?)

That's the general forumla to the WC3 races, you could use it as a model and build from it (you don't have to be bound to it, obviously, whatever you can do to make a race unique the better), but right now I don't really see anything here... just some people dreaming. Sorry for being hypercritical. It's just I've seen a lot of well planned mods fall apart.

 

[Vosty]

Of course, he did kinda startbackwards, but the guys at blizz, when they built wc3 had like 100+ people.
Consider having one story gorup, one material (model and skin) group, one race group (balancing etc.) ,and one campaign group.
Of course that has a LOT of people, so start flahing a little bit bigger than you are now.
Any luck in getting a programmer? I jsut learned some lgiht c++, but I don't have any idea how to make a mod.
The guys at Reinventing the Craft said that you need to hack game.dll and replace it with your crap.
.dlls are written in c++, but I looked at it, and it was slightly jibberish.
Well, good luck getting a programmer. I suggest a few.

 

[AIagremm]

Ok, thats a lot to answer.

Evillizard, we cant make a campign for mok'nathal, because they arent a melee race.

FlowerofSpeech, do you really think that I believe that we can actually make a mod? xD
I hope we will, but we are still on the design stage, thought we are slowly beginning to work. Yes, the techtrees are important and Im working on them right now. The orcs are my major headache right now. I cant deside who will be the campaign-only race and who will be the melee-race. Shamanistic or corrupted orcs? First i though of making their race unic because if they want thay can make an optional upgrade - Bloodpact that changes the units stats, allows the creation of new buildings and units, and doesnt allow the creation of other ones. However it can be hard.

vosty, you do have a point, and thanks for investigating. Now at leats we know what we need to deal with. I'll try to be more active on my search.

Thank you all for help and constructive criticism.

 

[izaiphovias]

I still don't agree with removing the blood pact, this is one of the cooles things of the orcs, of course it is kinda hard, expecialy talking about the heroes, but if we can make this, the blood pact will make the orcs really really cool to play, without it, they will only one more orcish race, like all the others, the blood pact is what makes them unic here...
=]

 

[AIagremm]

BTW, we need to think of unic features for each race: orcs - two ways of advancing.

 

[Evillizard]

What I was trying to say to have the Mok'nothal for a race is to have them solo hero + a few units, mabye 1 building added just for the use of the campaign, but other than that only creeps in the melee games.

EDIT: May want to have the without the bloodpact Shamans, Shamans as the healing unit with healing wave and lesser heal, but if you get bloodpact you get the Warlock which is good at dealing damage, shadow bolt and Summon Daemon. But, if you get this, you will not have a healing unit. Also, if you get bloodpact, the orcs will be more hazy, have a chance to miss, but be much more fierce and strong in melee (Ranged units have shorter range and will miss at times) ect. So, if you get Bloodpact you'll be ultimately more powerful, but you will loose some other things. So what ever one you chose, its not better or worse, it depends on which on you're better at.

EDIT2: Btw, is this going to be a mod overhaul? Where you make new campaigns, new races and resources, and a new World Editor? Or everything but the WE? Just Curiouse.

{EDIT}
Btw, I think I said the Mok'nothal thing wrong. I ment it to be like it is in Dawn of War 2, where you have 1 guy (In DoW2 you have like 4, but what ever) and a few units following his squad. If 1 dies, you can get to a point where you can get him back (You can get to "Shamanistic Point" and there you'll be able to rez fallen units). Anyway, can you answere to my question of if I can do something on the project? I can terrain decently, I can trigger (still learning the more really advanced stuff, but I can do cinimatics) and I can skin. (Im also looking for a good, clear, all explaining modeling tutorial so I can learn how to model)

 

[Cthulus]

Maybe you can skin for us, but you'll have to wait for our Project Lead to get back online.

 

[AIagremm]

I have returned! Tremble mortals! FoD has come to this world!

I dont know what you can do(especially since we dont need skinners, terrainers and triggerers right now). But I'll keep you in mind. Right now you can register on our site and work as a helper in the discussions.

 

[Mulgrim]

well, i didn't even know we had skinners.. we either have too few or none.

 

[AIagremm]

Because we dont need them right now. However... do you think we need skinners to help modellers.

 

[Mulgrim]

yeah... specially if that skinner is dedicated, and good at it.

 

[AIagremm]

Hm... So we should find one?

 

[arthas_king]

Im thinking of something strange, we are having so much fans, but none wants to help us out....

 

[AIagremm]

Actually this is quite normal.
But when we will make a demo... hazam! We got 1300 fans

 

[Cthulus]

Actually, plenty of FoD have asked to help in the future.

 

[VeljkoM]

Well if you need AI for that demo call me. I don't have time to make maps or something like that so I can offer AI for now.

 

[AIagremm]

Ok, we will need you later... but we will need you.

 

[VeljkoM]

Maybe latter I'll be able to help you more. Just send me a map with races or Object editor data and I'll make campaign AI (they just need to attack so that's easy)

 

[Vosty]

Campaign AI FTW!
The AI editor is ok, bust it is really just plain bad when making stuff for single player, or something more humanlike, or set to a situation. Using campaign AI is just better.

 

[VeljkoM]

Campaign AI just attacks so all you have to do is order him to make units and send them which is easier with AI editor. Triggers just can't do it that easy.

 

[Cthulus]

Thanks, VeljkoM. I sure hope you can cook up some really ferocious AI.

 

[AIagremm]

He sure can. I know VeljkoM as a mastermind AI maker.

 

[Evillizard]

I can do some terrain, wouldnt be very uber uber, but I certainly can terrain. Infact, ive been wanting to terrain something Draenor-like, and, I can learn to model. Ive been looking to learn, but Im going through the tutorials and...blahh.... I need to find one that has exact links where to get the tools, and exact instructions how to use it, ect. Anyway, if I do learn how to model, I could try to make some coolio Doodads and models. Anyway, back to what I was saying. I can terrain, not all perfect like, but I can certainly terrain well. Im not talking about flat terrain with 2 trees on the hole map, lol.

P.S. Ive got an idea for the Orc techtree, not fully though.
(During warcraft I, there was only 1 main base, so im implying that, but not copying the techtree)
Stronghold:Trains Peon, has the Spear Thrower Ability (Pheonix fire with spear projectile)
Peon: Builds all the Orcish Structures (Barracks, Beastiary, Altar of Storms, Watch Tower, and Warmills) (deals 3-4 damage)
Barracks: Trains Grunts, Axe Throwers, and Catapults (Grunt: Basic melee unit, deals 10-12 damage. Axethrower: Basic Ranged unit, deals 7-9 damage. Catapult: Vulnerable Siege weapon. Deals 20-30 damage, can learn the Spiked Armor ability.)
Researches: Spiked Armor

Beastiary: Trains Wolf Riders and Frostwolves. (Wolf rider, heavy melee unit, good at leading assults. Deals 12-15 damage, has the Dismount ability(Dismount ability, when killed the Rider will jump off and act as a Grunt). Frostwolf: Melee unit, adept in aiding assults. Has the Bite(Stun) ability.) Can research the Mount Frostwolf ability, Mounting the Wolf Riders on Frost wolves, giving them the Bite ability along with their normal self.

Altar of Storms: Can train Shamans and Revive dead heroes. (Shaman, deals 10-10 damage, can cast the Lesser Heal(Heal) and Healing Wave abilitys.) Can research Bloodpact, increasing damage and health of all units but giving them a chance to miss on attacks, removes the Training of Frostwolves, and Replaces Shamans with Warlocks(Warlock, deals 13-13 damage, can cast Shadowbolt and Summon Imp)

Gotta go to school, will finish later.

 

[AIagremm]

Well, we will have 3-tier main halls.
And yes you got some of them right, but we are making other concepts and dont need help with them and race creating.
We dont need terrainers, sorry

 

[Evillizard]

Damn. and I posted my map on the Hive just so you could sees it oh well. If you do find a use for me, let me know. Till then, ima see if Shadowz123 needs help on his map

 

[AIagremm]

Dant worry, lad! All be ok, argghh!

 

[Cthulus]

Take heart, young Warchief!
So, have we got a base map/terrained area done yet?