Warcraft III - Fall of Outland

[AIagremm]

My two favorite future races
But why the mad face?

 

[izaiphovias]

didn't understand vercas mad face too...

Ogres... ogres... ogres... i don't even know if Blizzard had made an origin for them. And if the campaings will take place before the Dark Portal, well, why ogres? They don't even were part of the horde at that times. In the tutorial you could place demos, the Burning Legion, Kil'Jhaeden's quest corrupting the orcs.

 

[Vosty]

Ogres? Couldn't we replace them with something more important? There were many races in the world of Azeroth. Night Elves, High Elves, Humans, Orcs, Tauren, Furblogs, Gnolls, Trolls, Shadow Trolls, Dragons, and a miilion others.
I'm not so good with stuff before or after wc3, but SOME of these races must of existed somewhere right? They didn't just appear, even though most of them were at Kalimdor.

 

[izaiphovias]

Ogres? Couldn't we replace them with something more important? There were many races in the world of Azeroth. Night Elves, High Elves, Humans, Orcs, Tauren, Furblogs, Gnolls, Trolls, Shadow Trolls, Dragons, and a miilion others.
I'm not so good with stuff before or after wc3, but SOME of these races must of existed somewhere right? They didn't just appear, even though most of them were at Kalimdor.

In truth, all the races you said, with the exeption of orcs, were origined in Azeroth.

But i agree with vosty that ogres aren't the best race for this mod, you realy should replace the ogres with something more important

 

[AIagremm]

Actually the mlost important races of Draenor(not Azeroth)were draenei, arakkoa and orcs. Ogres are not that important but they do play a role in history. Plus there is no race more important them they.
Plus making a demon race... there will be demon race in the campaign, but a playable race is not original.

 

[Joss]

Well, I could help as a terrainer. I'm a bit of a beginner, but I"ve been readign many tuts and refining my work lately. Also, I am a very good writer (Just check out my work in the Oblivion Map section of the Hosted Projects forum), and I simply love writign storylines and descriptions. I would be happy to come on as a writer, or, if you needed, a writer/terrainer.

 

[AIagremm]

Hm. You know, Im also a terrainer and a story maker.
You see, Im a noob in triggering, modelling, skinning, iconning(lol I invented a new word) and making loading screens.

However Im going to either learn to model or trigger.

 

[Vercas]

You're n00b in triggering, modeling and painting, in anther words.

Loading screens can sometimes be modeling + painting, modeling or just painting. It depends.

Learn to trigger, man!

 

[AIagremm]

Know why I always wanted to model?
Maps will be forgotten, but the models will always be used...
However in this situation I think that you are right.

But I can terrain(for example Draenor), however many cinematics will need a professional terrainer.

 

[izaiphovias]

Wait... are you a noob in triggering, you mean, GUI and JASS?

 

[AIagremm]

I mean triggering. All of it.(Object editor doesnt count)

 

[izaiphovias]

So how are you planing to make all of those campaings without knowing triggering?? You will recruit someone for that, or are you planing to learn??

 

[AIagremm]

Of course I will need some help.
This is mod-making, so it really will need some help.
But I'll try to learn.

Also I have an idea. Some of you who have layed WoW, know that in the beggining there is a cinematic that tells the stroy of the race. I have an idea, that every campaign will have a intro cinematic about the race. Ogres, arakkoa, draenei and orcs(also the horde)will have their story talled.

 

[izaiphovias]

GREAT, now this is a good idea.
I was wondering, how is the arakkoa story, never heared about it... =/

 

[AIagremm]

Oh, you know, the usual. Birds hail the great god. Great hero comes. Creates civilization. Rules centuries. Dissappears. Ancient civilizations of arakkoa destroyed. They fight against the light. Want to summon the great hero. Do dark things(And then in the campign, wow and lore: Orcs go mad. Destroy many settlements. Arakkoa try to summon an Old God. Pfail! Dead. Try to summon and exist even while dead. Everyone else waits till the hero revives, and do dark things)

 

[Vercas]

Oh man I dream to complete my own MMORPG which will be free, cool and stuff.
But I just don't have the needed knowledge of C++ and Visual Basic to complete it.
And my 3D Studios Max 5 doesn't work... Vista error...

We're both in the same situation!

 

[AIagremm]

You are making your own MMORG? O.O
Wow. I was thinking of a unic MMORG ones. Its a mix of strategy and MMORG. You can build your own castle(first you get a special spot, and then you can slowly create a cool mystical outpost for yourself or members of your guild). Of course the number of buildable castles is limited on thye map, so there are big servers where people register, and small servers of 100-150 or more players in which they play. You can choose one of many races, create a normal, or a specific(even your race specific)castle, find NPC that will protect and work in it. Get epic units, defend the castle from other players who want to claim it as their own, or just destroy it. Another inteseting thing is that you can give units commands what to do(like "idiot, cross right, not left!"), like in real life.
Plus the game is more like an RPG. You create the world yourself, with your actions.

Of course I only had ideas, and concepts, and no will to do anything.

 

[Vercas]

Man I still have the files and it's a WIP.

I am making the classes and in my MMORPG heroes can get guild fortresses in the borderlands, build up defensive weapons, hire mercenaries and bribe monsters to join their army.

I have the whole world in one server and managed to build a system for unlimited map size and map tiling / repeating.

It's bigger than WoW.

I am also making a map close to my MMORPG.

 

[AIagremm]

You made a world bigger then WoW, by yourself. And making some cool features, by yourself. You really impress me.

If you need lore/ideas/concepts or short stories, Im here to help.

 

[izaiphovias]

Bigger ta WoW, your game has an unlimited land??? xD, making a game bigger than WoW must be hard, the best of luck to you vercas!!! Needing ideas i'm here too. =D
I know that this thread is yours Alagremm, but this isn't getting off topic? =P
Talking about he mod Alagremm, how are you planig to be the ogre tutorial? I mean, the story of it.

 

[AIagremm]

No idea xD
No big deal, 1st chapter tells how to move it!(Call of the Gruul)
In 2nd chapter you learn how to build it!(Create farms, barracks and destroy local orcish settlemnt)
3rd chapter is how to kill it!(Mission - kill Son of Gruul, after you get really angry at him, his evil and his stupid wishes)

The main character is an ogre that will be one of those who will create Ogri'la and withstand the Gruul after Draenor was destroyed.

 

[izaiphovias]

You can put Dentars also in the story, he at least is an "important" ogre hero of WC II

 

[VeljkoM]

What Chogal and rest are just like amusement? Ogres have important part in history of the horde.

 

[Joss]

So, I would liek to know if I could help you as a terrainer or writer. I'm very good at writing, and an ok terrainer. Whaddya say?

 

[AIagremm]

I guess you can join. But the project is only going to start.

VeljkoM you do have a point there.
But Im not sure if the ogres are important enough to have their own campaign.
And if you can tell me if you know anything about their actions prior to the first war, I'd be pleased.

 

[Joss]

I can find out a lot of lore for you. And, actually, yes, the ogres are a big part of Warcraft Lore

Originally from Draenor, ogres were one of the last races of Draenor's giants. Some orc scholars believe the ogres were once intelligent and the dominant species of Draenor before the orcs rose to power. Orcs ruthlessly conquered ogre territory, enslaving or killing the ogres as they went; the war between the two races lasted quite a while, fueled by corruption from demonic forces. Soon the ogres were broken, the race either forced into exile or enslaved and used in experiments. To this day, most ogres hate orcs with a passion, remembering the wars they fought against each other.

Found this for you. Perhaps the first campaign could revolve around ogres being enslaved and then forced to go on quests and build structures as the tutorial campaign?

Many assume the ogres are insensate brutes, liking nothing more than destruction. Ogres have changed since the days of the Horde, however, possibly also due to their freedom from the influence of demons. More cunning than most give them credit for, ogre tribes keep somewhat at a distance from the other races as they have build a civilization. Villages are established in foothills, allowing ogres access to plains and forested areas.

The new civilization of ogres has somewhat of a patchwork quality to it. Tribes are experimenting with different approaches, observing the other races as they seek to find their own way. Some groups are nomadic, while others have started small agrarian communities. All hunt, either as a primary or supplementary source of food. While rivalries and conflicts occur, ogres place great stock in listening to elders and allowing moderation of disputes. There is a loyalty to the race and at least some respect for the other races, though ogre interests are always addressed first and foremost.

Ogres value endurance and insight more then simple strength. As strong as they are, they know that something out there is always stronger. Rangers are common among ogres, combining skill with the knowledge of the land.

Ogres test unfamiliar groups to determine their power and possible intentions. They try to avoid conflict, often by having ogre warriors make displays of aggression, smashing the ground and shouting at opponents, out of range of whatever weapons the opponents possess. As a last resort, ogres have some skill in formation fighting and will use a combination of charges and withdrawals to try to surround enemies. Ogres will throw spears at a distance in waves combined with the use of clubs, with possible magical support from ogre magi. When committed to a fight, these giants are completely dedicated, only breaking from an engagement if their leader commands it.

Despite their size and ferocious appearance, ogres are curious about the wider world and often seek to spread a more positive understanding of ogre culture. At the very least, an ogre hero can gain resources and allies for her tribe

And here is some more lore. Please note, I did not write this myself, this is actual Ogre lore from Warcraft.

Ogre society is based on violence and domination. The head of a tribe holds his position through sheer brute strength. Any member of the clan can challenge the leader to a battle to the death. The victor of this duel is declared the new ruler (or retains the position, if the incumbent emerges victorious). This ogre often takes to decorating himself garishly with whatever stolen armor and weapons he can get his hands on. Loot in a ogre clan is distributed by whoever can defend their claim. Thus, the strongest members are usually easily identified by their better armaments.

Besides their own tribes, ogres are often found employed as mercenaries, especially by the Goblin cartels, who see their extreme strength and slow wits as an asset. In Outland, ogre lords rule over the weaker and less intelligent ogres.

Ogres prefer to live in mounds, which are little more than caves or piles of stone built around steam vents, implying that ogres seem to prefer hot areas. Some ogre villages exist, but they are less common. Ogres are extremely destructive to their environment, and any area that they have lived in for some time can be distinguished by the piles of waste and excrement that they leave in plain view. Often, the dismembered remains of enemies and prey are hung on meat hooks, strewn about the ground, or otherwise left out for all to see.

And some more Perhaps I could be the project's Loremaster?

And if you were wondering about female ogre's, here ya go:

Ogre females have not appeared in the games and only a few have been mentioned in the lore. The few ogre females mentioned in lore include the unnamed wife of Tharg, who died by the claws of the black dragonflight. Chief Ogg'ora was a female ogre sorceress and former leader of the Fire-Gut ogres.

One of Gro'ach the Wise's commanders among the Duskbelch ogres was a female barbarian named Vaxar.

Other types of ogres:

Ogre magi are smarter, spellcasting versions of ogres. Ogre magi came into existence in the Second War when the orc warlock Gul’dan carved up an elven runestone and used its mystic powers to imbue ogre enforcers with the ability and intelligence to cast spells.
Gronn of Outland, the immortal demigods of the ogre race. Some say the gronn gave rise to the lesser ogres, yet if so, they show but little love for their children, as the savage brutes lord over the ogre clans with an iron fist.
Ogre Lords have only one eye and have stone-like growths covering their bodies. These Ogre Lords are closer in descent to the gronn compared to regular ogres.
Half-breeds, Half-ogre
Half-ogre magi
Half-human half-ogre
Manual of Monsters:In Manual of Monsters Appendix Three two other type of ogres are mentioned: the Ogrillon and the Gauntling; however the validity of the source is disputed.

I also have a full list of ogre tribes or ogre-related tribes and their purposes/customs/etc., if you would like them

 

[AIagremm]

But still... they will have not a bad part in other race's campaigns.
But as their own force...

 

[Joss]

I have plenty of lore on the subject of ogres, as you can see

Besides; since they are only the tutorial race, you wouldn't have to give them a full compliment of structures, techs, units, or even Heroes.

 

[AIagremm]

Actually, I too know all of this.
However I know the true lore.
The ogres were one of barbaric races of Draenor.
However they were enslaved by the Gronn - their bigger "brothers".
Before they could have been a great civilization, however they really are brutish.

And they were enslaved by the orcs only in and prior of the First War.
The first peacefull and civilizatic ogres appeared only recently. Ogres of Ogri'la use ancient arakkoa crystals to boost up their minds. However its in WoW so this could be only flavor lore.

They were one of dominating races of Draenor - last of the Draenor giants, their brutal strenght allowed them to rule some places of the wolrd with iron fist.

But they never had a civilization until recently, whe they understood the need of becoming smarter, more peaceful and socially active.

Plsu there is no Loremaster in the project! Only Lorekeepers(like me).
But you can still be in.

 

[izaiphovias]

So, there is really nothing too much to put in the tutorial story, as you said, a few raids agains orc encampments would be enough, but i like the idea of VeljkoM to put Chogal, and mine to put Dentars in the game, even if the ogres would be only in the tutorial =D. And as Joss, said, there is no trully need to create a full race for the ogres, if they will serve only as a tutorial, it will be very easy to create them.

 

[AIagremm]

Dude Im telling you. This is a mod.
There are four races in WC3. So there should be four races there.
And can you think of a race better then ogres for being the fourth race?

Ogres will have some roles during the missions, sometimes like ordinary creeps, and sometimes as a powerfull force.

If they had a role before first war, I'd be happy to get them in the story.

 

[izaiphovias]

oh yeah, i forgot that this is a mod... =P
but anyway, even a full ogre race should be easy to create.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeap, especially since there are many ogre models(even a builder).

Slo some of the ogres will play an important part of the campaign.

 

[izaiphovias]

and the buildings??? You will use orcish buildings or there are ogre buildings too???

 

[AIagremm]

No, that will need to be requested.
Along with draenei, arakkoa and orcish buildings.

Oh, and here is the list of orcish buildings from first war.
They are just what I need for orcs. See the Tower? Reminds you of something doesnt it? Something WC3ish.
All buildings are good. Except Kennel. I hate Kennel. I will think of another look for it.

 

[izaiphovias]

We don't have any modeler on Richard's group??? this could make things quite easy

 

[AIagremm]

If there is of course.

 

[Vosty]

The Wc1 models look cool, and the tower looks EXACTLY like the skull of Gul'dan, doesn't it?
Like you said the kennel sucks, but I thought the main building was kinda lame too.
MAYBE I CAN help, but probably not much, seeing as when we reach August, my schedule explodes being ripped apart by school, sports, and Wc3.
Good luck with this, and I hope you can get someone to make a mod.

 

[AIagremm]

Thanks!
Exactly! Skull of Gul'dan!
Yeah, the main building isnt that good, but I think of changing it a little.
To make it better and 3-tierish.

 

[izaiphovias]

So, you are going to use something like the WC I thechtree??

 

[AIagremm]

For orcs. However, I will need serious thinkin' to make it not only shamanistic until the Bloodpact upgrade, but also think about it.

 

[Malcous]

I would help you , but im too busy :/

 

[AIagremm]

No matter. You can help with draenei later.

 

[Malcous]

Ok

 

[Hinte]

I know very little about lore, but for the orcs, are they gonna be the green ones the red ones or the brown ones?

Green and red are in game and FrIkY has a nice pack of some of the brown orcs here on the hive http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/packs-542/the-maghar-orcs-115679/?prev=r=20&page=2

 

[AIagremm]

I know. There will be green and brown orcs.

 

[izaiphovias]

Particularly i prefer the brown orcs, i just do'nt know why they are brown... or there isn't any reason for that???

 

[AIagremm]

They just never were corrupted.
Green - corruption, red - further corruption.

Plus they will have mag'har(brown orcs)buildings.
I think I will have some sort of an upgrade - Bloodpact.
You can become green, get some new units and more damage.
However you will lose defence and such units as shamans. So you can choose, either to be good or bad.

 

[izaiphovias]

That's a good idea, perhaps you can made this corruption go even further, making them red, and gaining some demonic units, but loosing something too. Or are you plaing something diferent for the fel orcs?

 

[AIagremm]

I would like to add fel orcs, however they didnt exist before the creation of Outland.
The only exception are chaos orcs. However, I will leave their models in the game files.