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Warcraft 3 Reforged

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by Archian, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

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    Rule breaking behavior has already taken care of and more severe posts have been deleted.
    Continue on with reforging the wc3 discussion.
     
  2. disruptive_

    disruptive_

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    I'm drunk.

    Premise 1.
    The WC3/SC2 modding scene has some inherent value that must be extracted. I'm not talking about bringing the familty together or things like that, i'm talking about the green devil. We know that. Activision Blizzard knows that (Starcraft II; WC3 recent updates (or you really think they did those to please YOU special little creature?); Dota 1/2 cases and trails; WC3 Recycled, i mean Reforged, advertisements). Do they know that?

    Premise 2.
    You can extract that value on a slow, comprehensive, progressive, sustainable scale, or on a more white shark, cold blooded, let's fucking devour their wallets - that tomorrow we can die approach.
    On this concrete case, what are you expecting?
    The last approach also tends to be more professional (read: serious, otherwise a russian hitman hired by a controlling shareholder will kill one of the executives, i'm joking of course as the outcome will be simply some death threats here and there and a possible abduction but w/e) and more large scale on regards of the resources that will be deployed.


    A mod scene can even be treated as a serious minimization of the costs of searching talented and product-commited people (ie. workers).
    Just think on the hirings that Blizzard did this year for their classic game team. And this was from a community and users that endured years of neglection.

    The thing is, as it appears (appeared), there isn't a low risk system to manage a game's mod scene so to get the profits and value that it gives. How you milk this not-so new cow until it dries? How you correctly kill the goose that lays those delicious golden eggs?
    One could say that just leaving the modders photosynthesize on the forums and do stuff very slowly is not an efficient way to get the maximum amount of eggs (this is not my opinion, as i value passionate people that works for work sake). Wasn't the mission to extract value fast or atleast at a reasonable tempo?

    Blizzard has been on this last decade a satelite company in terms of innovation and corporative practices (this goes from online card games, microtransactions, directed dopamine triggering game mechanics, RPG features, mobile games market; on all this they didn't dictate, they saw what worked before from other companies and used it, while also not getting their hands too dirty; but over those guideliness they added their excellent and notable design and lore and voila, you got a high quality product that is so distinguishable that almost appears as if they were the pioneers all along) so they are waiting for a less risk averse company to dictate or that atleast would immolates itself for the greater good to see what is worthy pursuing on regards of the correct way of exploiting a game's modding scene.

    I don't think that the correct way (read: the way that will get my stocks high as fast as you can say "Immortal") is via Paid Mods, or by developing the World Editor (Reforged or not) unto a game engine itself so it reproduces value on its own (i'm saying this because there are lots of dudes that are kind of implicitly asking for this, but one can always dream).
    I think the way is, basing on the HIVE user hiring analogy, is by passing rather abussive but lucrative licenses to certain projects (most likely projects that share some kind of Blizzard product placement fanatism, like a new WC3 custom campaign, a Blizzard themed TD with some strange feature, but that also don't collide too much with other Blizzard products like a custom card game would do) that will put Blizzard on the very confortable spot of a distributor of a brand new, fan based and created, but still Blizzard products and expansions. To quicken things up, as i said on the premise 3, i think they will implement a competitive ecosystem, like map rankings, etc., and some incentives so people work hard (before you think i'm crazy, if you go to the map development section you will find lots of dudes not respecting the authors time and interest, some even trying to push deadlines and such).
     
  3. neven1

    neven1

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    Wait , is someone advocating for paid mods? Who? How do you know?
     
  4. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Well this Christie Golden thing got me both concerned and hopeful , first thought is ofc 'here we go woman that destroyed WoW lore is here' but then they said ' biggest change is showing how Arthas got invincible or changing some of text' well then no 'wow looking' suramar, black citidel or draeneis cause those are alot more bigger changes that they should mention...
     
  5. Sieben

    Sieben

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    You may be right. To be honest, I don't mind if Blizzard adds a few new things, to enhance the original experience, provided the original style, atmosphere and lore are not altered too much. So this horse thing, if they put it in the game, is not so much of a problem, and could even be a nice addition.
    About Suramar, Black Citadel etc, we can't tell yet. Maybe they didn't mention these big changes because they think it's too soon to make any announcement about them. Maybe it's still an early work in progress, or perhaps they're still figuring if/how they are going to do it. We'll just have to wait and see :)
     
  6. Warseeker

    Warseeker

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    One question, since they say custom campaigns will be compatible with Reforged, will the in-game cinematic still work also? I mean, from the Culling mission I've watched on Youtube, units/heroes doesn't seem to use portraits during cinematics anymore but rather like realistic graphism, so what I'm saying is : How would in-game cinematics work in Reforged for custom maps? Does that mean map makers or modelers will have to re-create models with talk animations like in WoW?
     
  7. Iliya

    Iliya

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    The first comment it's out of context and unrelated. This was before WoW got that famous paid off itself. IceFrog's dota and other cusotm maps brought millions in Warcraft 3 boosting Blizzard's sales and bringing attention to them. Blizzard profited off their hard work while Icefrog just got a spit on his face. I'm surprised people cheer for that yet have claim to have an anti-corporate agenda.


    Icefrog left cause working day and night and satisfying millions of players for A spit on the face was not worth it. Blizzard already had the Warcraft 3 sales cashed in so they did not care about updating the game so they left it to rot where with a cosmetic Micro-transaction model you want to keep your game updated.

    Yes people monetize once their work gets hugely popular.

    "Forcing them to pay" WTF? How is allowing people to buy skins "forcing them to pay". That is the stupidest thing I heard. This is basically donating just you get a cosmetic to show off for it. The entire gaming market is based on this. I've explained the problems with Patreon. Name me one map maker with an actual working Patreon.

    Also Art is hobby and meant to be free? That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. Warcraft 3 is art so it should be free. All the games are art should so should be free. Moves, Music, shows All Free! I don't understand why people defend bug corporations for profiting yet not supporting a map maker making a wage on his work.


    @Anaxie No I'm not from China, Just A warcraft 3 custom map fan who is pissed off that I get a Rotten broken Corpse for my favorite game while China has a thriving community with the game constantly being updated. We can do it far better than them. TBH I would not mind playing them instead of trash battle.net but I have ping issues if I do and can't understand their language.

    Also the hell you mean this is something for East not West? Have you played any games? League, Dota, Fornite all popular games in West and I only see cosmetic price tags while them being most popular games ever. Paywall is just BS and a scam. You are paying for something you don't what it is, It could be total trash but you still have paid for it. Where with a cosmetic model you play the game first then you decide if it's worth to support it. Also Cosmetic models give the Devs an incentive to constantly update their game rather than taking the money and running while leaving the game to Rot as we saw with Warcraft 3.
     
  8. Wareditor

    Wareditor

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    I think we can all agree the new artworks are amazing.

    newart.PNG
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    I was referring to the maps/mods themselves and possibly new content but not skins.
    Who's going to stop them?
    I'm afraid you have much more to live through. You're misinterpreting what I am replying to you.
     
  10. Triceron

    Triceron

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    Then you are coming at it from the wrong place. Its just as much a fallacy to believe napping and modding is a sustainable alternative to a paying job. It is not. In most cases, it will never be. Your expectations of satisfactory monetary reimbursement is unrealistic.

    Im not wholy sure where you are coming from to say all this. Are you a mapper or modder? Are your expectations based solely on comparing to work done professionally? Tbh I make mods not to make money but to express my creativity and practice my art. Sharing it freely is my gift back to the community that makes it great. The mods I worked on that focused on money all got torn apart by internal politics. Once you monetize, it strains expectations.
     
  11. Almia

    Almia

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    Wow, seeing the old guys come back from their graves.

    Now, all we need is Kael's ass back here.
     
  12. No, looks like 2 pics clamped together. Compare to this at battle.net front page.
     
  13. Dr. Benevolent Guy

    Dr. Benevolent Guy

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    Thank You for your kind reply sir. Now i am convinced to buy the pre-purchase. Thanks and more power.

    Edit: Guys do you think there will be more campaigns added to the Reforged that is tailored to WOW Lore?
    Hope they will add post-WOW up to Battle for Azeroth Campaign if they will even it means of paying in forms of DLC and I am really up for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  14. Iliya

    Iliya

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    Yea in most cases never be and most will continue to map for free despite the ability to add cosmetic purchases. So it won't affect the majority of the community at all.

    I know a bit about the editor but I'm not a mapper or modder. I'm just big custom map player who is sick of watching all the great and famous maps outsourced away from Warcraft 3 to steam or some cases hugely delayed on updates or outright abandoned despite massive demand. Meanwhile I'm searching in Graveyard of Battle.ent for custom maps I watch the custom map community flourish in China.

    History and evidence has shown it's simple, once a map becomes popular, working on it becomes super tough, The map makers realize it's honestly not worth their time to work like free code monkeys to boost Blizzard's sales so they go to Steam or another platform where they get something for their work. What this does is make a huge Playerbase of Warcraft 3 follow them to do which in Turn kills Warcraft 3. Last time there were not many other engines or platforms to outsource to, This time there is plenty. If we don't support the popular custom maps, history will repeat itself with Reforge and the game will be dead once again after some years, This time even Netease's growth won't convince Blizzard.
     
  15. Anaxie

    Anaxie

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    Your profile says youre 20

    You were shitting in diapers when WC3 released and you are talking about the game Warcraft 3 scene dying.

    OKAY THEN
     
  16. Iliya

    Iliya

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    I've been playing this game since I was 7. I'm probably the last generation who touched Warcraft 3.

    Also I did not say Warcraft 3 scene was dying. I said it's DEAD! 3500 Peak on day is DEAD by any standard. Compare that to 40,000 of Netease. Death will be the fate of the reforged too if it does not support its map makers, This time it will die a lot faster. There won't be A Dota making Warcraft 3 popularity rise this time while the graphics are now severely outdated for their time.

    Custom maps are literally the only hope into making this game attract new players to be popular again otherwise remake will be just a quick nostalgia cash grab for players who can no longer be as active as they were in their childhood.

    Graphics are outdated for a RTS (compare that to state of the art like TW Warhammer) where WC3 was exceptional on graphics on release. Story and Melee gameplay are outdated now where they used to be best on release. Dota, Legion TD and other popular custom maps are all ported steam where they were once part of this game and made it popular. Right now it seems like this game only offers nostalgia rewards and nothing new.

    Reforged new custom maps will be the only thing that might make this popular again, however without proper support it won't happen or the map makers will just outsource once again, this time a lot easier. Leaving this game to offer nothing new for new players to even bother resulting in a quick death.
     
  17. Anaxie

    Anaxie

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    Id say the scene on Hive is lively enough for a 16 year old game. Most people like myself play offline components of the game.

    If you are expecting Reforge to magically last 10/15 years if it had Netease implementation you are insane.

    The VAST VAST possibly 95% of reforge purchases are going to be simply to replay the Vanilla Campaigns in the new graphics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  18. Augustus

    Augustus

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    I can say that's true. Grew up with all the WarCraft games and I play them mostly for the story and atmosphere. I don't do PVP in WoW and for me custom content for WC3 means high quality custom campaigns like Chasing the Dawn. I like DOTA too but I suck at competitive stuff and it really brings the worst in me.
     
  19. Augustus

    Augustus

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    Man, I would love to see even the HOTS one.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Overdramatic. Nobody has to hurry. When updates come to a map they come. This demand you're writing about is like you're buying food or something. Frankly, people just need to be patient and in the mean time play something else, be it another game or other maps. Simple. This end of modding fear is only an exaggeration. Warcraft III has never died and guess what, it was not due to payed modding but to free hobbyists. So please, enough with this false revelation of yours.
    The only support this game needs is for modders/mappers to have tools for map and resource creation and for ladder contests/games to be hosted regularly.