War on Terror

[Elenai]

(after looking at Firelord and everyone else arguing, here is my view, which is supported by facts from EVERY side)

Neither side is innocent.

Both Palestine and Israel are being real bloody handed, and war monger minded barbarians.

 

[3rgytr54]

I didn't want to go that far. But here is an example. Your walking down the street, some guy trys to mug you and you beat him down enough to get away. If you go any father with his beat down you can be sued for assault. "Once you go on the offensive, you cannot turn back"

 

[thegreatsmite]

Clsoe this post becasue of all this crap that people are showning, these are one-sides bias anti-simetic vidoes that are wiping the minds of us member, tha plistiens also tried to kill the jews, they were the first to attack the jews in palistein, then killed jews and the jews reacted. i am ashmaed with all of you, dont jsut close this form delete it.
you people should be ashamed with yourselves. take your anit-semitism out of here!
yes both sides have done horrible things to eachother, but its not the jews's fault, its both the jews, and the palistiens. both sides. i am ashamed to even see that people like you fall this low and believe videos on youtube which could be made by anyone,
the most anti-simetic person.
motice that not a single video here has a watermark, none are official, and notice how there are all one sided?

DELETE THIS POST NOW!!!!!

 

[Firelord213]

Those videos aren't pro-Hamas lol, It's pretty much videos that show what's going on in palestine.
Only time Hamas is mentioned there is that they gained power year 2006.

And you always blame WW2 and o the poor Jews etc, Yes I feel very bad about what Hitler did to them, But why did the Palestinians have to pay the price?
Why couldn't the Zionists get a land in USA,England or any other place.

And the above post says it all, When you go anti israel actions you're being anti-Semitic,
That's one of the most effective Weapons Israel uses.

And for the last time, It's not ANTI-jews, It's Anti-Zionists, Since there are Jews who are Anti-israel and that Judaism has no part in this it shouldn't be mentioned.

And BTW, ''They can be made by anyone since it's on Youtube, Lol @ You.
http://www.occupation101.com/

 

[thegreatsmite]

i never said those videos were pro hamas, there pro-palistien and there on-sided bias and offensife for leaving out half of the story. these vidoes are just as worthless as ones on moon consiracy, and i never mentioned WWII, you are loosing it, you only argument now is putting word in other peoples mouths.
and heres to answer your question, guess who was in charge of relocating all the jewish refugees? USA / ENLGAND and the un which is a USA and European majority.
and if you werent ignorant of other religions, you would know that in Judiaism, the holy land is...guess where...just take a guess.....so jews went there and enough were going there, and enough were being relocated there that the UN stepped it.

and heres a fact for you. Zionists planned to have ther jewish state in AFRICA, near UGANDA. but that didnt work out becasue of the USA and UN.


CLOSE AND DELETE THIS OFFENSIVE FORUM!!!

 

[Firelord213]

Oh so you're calling killing Civilians Judaism, O shi-?
And I wasn't only replying to your posts, There are other posters than you.
And why are they biased and wrong, Give me some facts than proves them wrong, because everyone can just say it's false.

And I knew about the Africa thingy, But the Zionists HAD to have Palestine.
And Guess what?
The Holy land of Christianity is in THE HOLY LAND (Palestine) And so is it in ISLAM D:!

And I present you some of many!

http://www.nkusa.org

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-30.htm

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/jews_against_zionism.html

 

[thegreatsmite]

Oh so you're calling killing Civilians Judaism, O shi-?
[/url]

mods, please ban him. this truly offends me


you are anti-semetic, you dont deserve to dicuss this topic becasue all you can do is post your hatred to jews and claim there wrong-dooings, but just remember, who attacked the jews first in the middle east, who started the conlfict, if it werent for muslims attacking jewish immigrants then this may not of layed out the way it did. im ashamed, im guessing your muslim, i know plenty of nice mulims im friends with them, which is why i dont agree with those steryotypes, you put a bad name on your faith and only encourage those steriotypes.


close this form please

 

[3rgytr54]

"Once you have seen it all, there is more to see"

youtube is a bad spot for anything truthful. Israel was placed there because that is what it says in the the Torah / Old Testament.

EDIT: Why not both?. Once again

Your walking down the street, some guy trys to mug you and you beat him down enough to get away. If you go any farther with his beat down you can be sued for assault. "Once you go on the offensive, you cannot turn back"

EDIT2:

1. Read your books
2. Don't get into an argument over controversial facts on a forum that has a habit of turning into a mess
3. And finally, No one speaks the truth

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Never ban people because of opinions. It is a good thing that people have different opinions.

 

[thegreatsmite]

if someone is dileerately being offensive, anti-semetic, racist, or whatever, they should be punished, it says so in the hive rules, under reputation i believe

 

[Firelord213]

please highlight everything I said that is Anti-Jew and Anti-Semitic and what is offensive.
if anything you said is true then I'll be more than happy to recieve neg-rep.
You maybe have been misunderstanding what I've been saying.

 

[PurplePoot]

He isn't being anti-semitic. Anti-semitic does not mean "disagreeing with Israel," or if it now does, then I'm proud to be so.

Also, who cares "who started it?" What matters is "what the hell are people doing now..."

 

[Elenai]

I want to know why its so darn difficult to just let the Jews have their small strip of land on the globe that is barely a few miles across at one point, a tiny strip of land that they have by all rights won by war and are now the legitimate government of that region, when the Muslim world has nearly 3/4 of the equator, several spots in the Philippines, a bunch of land in central asia, and newly formed pockets in developed nations, and also considering that The Holy Land, doesn't even have Islam's most holy site on it, while it does however have (as far as I know) the only holy sites Judaism has (places for pilgrimage, not historical).

Islam has an ocean...and Israel can't have a bucket?

Should we the United States, and Canada, and the South American Nations all of a sudden throw ourselves into the sea and let the Natives have their land back? I bet the Natives would love that, but sadly its not going to happen. We took the land, we have secured it, and it is now "ours", the same rules apply to Israel. It is a simple matter of politics, and who won what, and was able to keep it. Its probably not right, but its reality, reality is cruel and barbaric, its not a perfect system, heck, it might not even be a decently civilized one! But that's how reality works. They fought for the land, they won the land, and they are now the legitimate government protecting their borders and citizens in what ever way they possibly can given the circumstances, that they are not a large country like America, and they don't have bargaining chips, they are also surrounded by people who would rather see a Jewish man skinned alive and eaten by dogs, rather than have him sit at their table for a polite tea, likewise a Jewish man would not be very appreciative of a Muslim sitting down and having a few sips.

Both sides are not innocent.

I have seen Firelord's various points, and I'm sure they are at least half way accurate despite the bias. But there must be a realization when it comes to groups like Hamas.

Hamas isn't some "charity gathering of the Salvation army, ever so innocently being nice and happy and peaceful looking out for the greater good of mankind" they are not "weaponless martyrs, dying to save their families from an evil menace" they are also not taking any visible steps to make sure that civilians are not in harm's way when they know good and well Israel is coming in to strike. INFACT for some reason they tend to use places like schools, day cares, and hospitals as weapons platforms, WITH PEOPLE STILL INSIDE THEM! If I were a kind hearted group of freedom fighters trying to protect my family from the "Jewish invaders" I certainly wouldn't let them stand underneath my feet while I was throwing rockets at them. I would say "GTFO OF HERE! I'M SHOOTING, AND DON'T WANT YOU HURT!"

However, Israel at least gives a courtesy call. "Get out, or die, your house harbours our enemies"

Speaking of Israel, Israel is not innocent either, and they DO commit rather barbaric acts...but this most certainly doesn't make Israel a devil amongst lambs, all Israel is at this point is an aggressive wolf, amongst even more aggressive wolves, trying to keep other wolves from peeing on his patch of snow, which he fought the alpha male's for.

The thing one must remember about this conflict, is that it isn't "Good vs Evil", it isn't even "Right vs Wrong". Its politics vs politics. And Israel is the political winner of the land, and has the right to defend it's ground, and if necessary wipe a threat that constantly breaks truces off the face of the Earth. It is war, and civilians will get hurt, on both sides.

A 12 year old son Mohammad and his three 4 month old sisters, and their grandmother might get killed by an Israeli bomb, but it probably wouldn't have happened if:

A) Israel wasn't bombed the day earlier by a rocket launched from the house next door into the middle of Southern Israel, a rocket that happened to have hit civilian targets.

B) The house that Mohammad was living in with his family wasn't a lovely weapons platform with a view.

C) Mohammad and his family had the idea to leave the house upon realizing there were people shooting on their roof. Usually when you are standing underneath a gun platform....there is a good chance that you are going to find a bomb coming your way.

D) Common sense for the above.

To put it simply, Israel is being blunt, and barbaric. But Palestine is not being particularly lovely either, and are just as barbaric, if not more, due to the mere use of schools and hospitals as weapons platforms, if you don't want it to get bombed...don't give Israel a reason to think that you are hiding/shooting from it.

 

[Firelord213]

I don't have time to reply at the moment,
But no School has been used as a platform lol, They were shooting AT a platform that was close to a school, And it killed the people in the school as well.
And they dont have platforms on someones house lol.

Do you have any facts about this or are you using your Imagination?'
And could you please come with any true facts that proves my Sources wrong before you start calling my sources ''biased and false''?

 

[3rgytr54]

I don't have time to reply at the moment,

'nuff said

But no School has been used as a platform lol, They were shooting AT a platform that was close to a school, And it killed the people in the school as well.
And they dont have platforms on someones house lol.

Who said they "didn't"?

Do you have any facts about this or are you using your Imagination?'
And could you please come with any true facts that proves my Sources wrong before you start calling my sources ''biased and false''?

Calling them biased and somewhat false not entirely. Every source is "biased and false" to some extent.

I'm outa' quotes...

EDIT: Nope, not anymore.

"People who know the least always argue the most”

“It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side”

 

[Mechanical Man]

I didn't want to go that far. But here is an example. Your walking down the street, some guy trys to mug you and you beat him down enough to get away. If you go any father with his beat down you can be sued for assault. "Once you go on the offensive, you cannot turn back"

This actions will be better compared when you are mugged, instead to beat only the agressor, you attack also other people who are accidentally near and then you go to the attacker house, and beat the fuck out also his family and neighbours.

 

[3rgytr54]

No not really, countries are fighting. Not a mob.

“The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is now.”

In the six day war Israel literally and figuratively killed those other nations that were huge compared to it's tiny size. And ended a war in 6 days being the victor. That land should have been re-fought over then, not now.

 

[Elenai]

YouTube - Hamas - Human Shield Confession (I don't speak arabic...so if this video happens to be some form of mis-translation (which I doubt, but still) do tell me what it is actually saying)

YouTube - Terrorists Using Civilians as Human Shields
YouTube - Gaza, land of human shields

YouTube - Hamas human shields (a bit unprofessional, but for the use of the photos)

YouTube - NEWS - HAMAS HUMAN SHIELDS GET INJURED OR KILLED - TERRORISM MUST STOP

Do you have any facts about this or are you using your Imagination?'
And could you please come with any true facts that proves my Sources wrong before you start calling my sources ''biased and false''?

I have seen Firelord's various points, and I'm sure they are at least half way accurate despite the bias. But there must be a realization when it comes to groups like Hamas.

Did you miss that part?

 

[Mechanical Man]

Israeli human shield

http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/dailymail_humanshield.jpg

 

[Elenai]

Hey, I said both sides were barbaric didn't I? I just wanted to note that Hamas isn't a group devoted to being generally nice or innocent, as Firelord and so many wish to claim.

It isn't "Good vs Evil"

it is

"Everyone bloody sucks and are fighting over a piece of land that is barely the size of Maryland. And both sides are doing it through means that are entirely blood thirsty, and unwarrented."

This war is romanticized by both sides. All war is romanticized, when in reality it's the single most confusing, chaotic, and nerve wracking experience for both combatants, and civilians, and every day of war is filled with deeds of unimaginable cruelty, and evil for every side involved.

Nazi Germany vs United States:

Holocaust? Blitzkrieg? General Nazism.

---

We bombed the righteous **** out of Berlin, and utterly decimated Europe.

Civilians killed by both sides.

Japan vs US Marines:

Japan used kamakazi attacks and suicide tactics, and cruelly treated POW's, starving them to death, commiting war crime upon war crime, treating human beings like animals in the name of their god Emperor, and in the name of Nationalism and Imperialistic expansion.

---

America used flame throwers, burning people alive, carpet bombing entire towns with incendiary explosives, literally melting the skin off of men, women, and children! IN THE MIDDLE OF TOKYO! And that was before we even dropped the Atomic Bomb!

--------

Likewise both sides committed great acts of Heroism in the field of battle.

And we all know how WW2 is perceived, as a triumphant battle of the pure and determined Allies, fighting the bastardized excuses of human beings called "The Axis of Evil!"

Turns out...Many Nazi soldiers were Catholics, Christians, and generally nice people...they were just following orders after being threatened with death, or being brain washed.

Also, many American soldiers were not so nice, we've raped quite a few Japanese women, thus we've now developed a genetic lust for tentacles, and school girls.

Likewise, many Nazi's were not nice. And many Americans were brave heroes.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is no different, and no war then or now will be different.

 

[3rgytr54]

YouTube - Hamas human shields (a bit unprofessional, but for the use of the photos)

Will much as prove your points as

Israeli human shield
http://www.palestineremembered.com/i...umanshield.jpg

will prove his. That argument I think can't be argued except for the fact that there is always the "who's worse?" factor.

EDIT: I'm stuck at 370 posts hahaha...

 

[PurplePoot]

Should we the United States, and Canada, and the South American Nations all of a sudden throw ourselves into the sea and let the Natives have their land back? I bet the Natives would love that, but sadly its not going to happen. We took the land, we have secured it, and it is now "ours", the same rules apply to Israel. It is a simple matter of politics, and who won what, and was able to keep it. Its probably not right, but its reality, reality is cruel and barbaric, its not a perfect system, heck, it might not even be a decently civilized one! But that's how reality works. They fought for the land, they won the land, and they are now the legitimate government protecting their borders and citizens in what ever way they possibly can given the circumstances, that they are not a large country like America, and they don't have bargaining chips, they are also surrounded by people who would rather see a Jewish man skinned alive and eaten by dogs, rather than have him sit at their table for a polite tea, likewise a Jewish man would not be very appreciative of a Muslim sitting down and having a few sips.

That reasoning is how Israel got its land after World War II in the first place. "We lived there 2000 years ago so it's ours!"

No not really, countries are fighting. Not a mob.

“The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is now.”

In the six day war Israel literally and figuratively killed those other nations that were huge compared to it's tiny size. And ended a war in 6 days being the victor. That land should have been re-fought over then, not now.

Even in full-scale war you don't attack their population.

 

[3rgytr54]

Ahh, not in modern war. Modern war has no boundaries.

 

[Elenai]

@3rgytr54

My point was to show that Hamas DOES use human shields, not to show who is worse. ^^

That reasoning is how Israel got its land after World War II in the first place. "We lived there 2000 years ago so it's ours!"

yes, that is true. But my point is that just as we "won and kept" the land from the Natives, Israel too has "won and kept" the land from the Middle Eastern Natives.

Ahh, not in modern war. Modern war has no boundaries.

Not just "modern warfare". No war has boundaries. Boundaries in a war is a myth that can get you killed. War is a fight for survival at all stages of it. "The soldier fighting to survive on the battle field" all the way up to "Countries trying to survive".

When it comes right down to it "Its either you, or me, and it won't be me", that is how warfare works, and boundaries, nobility, honour, sacrifice...they don't have a place in the big picture of war. Sure there are instances where a man will take a grenade to save his squad...but that is a detail, not a big picture.

 

[3rgytr54]

Oh, ok I can see that now. How did I miss the "Israel is barbaric" statements

EDIT: still 370 posts... something is wrong

 

[Arvedui]

Even in full-scale war you don't attack their population.

That has never been true. In history the general population of either side has either been killed or enslaved.

Look at the Jews in Babylon. Or the Jews in Egypt.

The Romans were very apt at this.

The Mongols destroyed entire cities if their leaders didn't submit to them.

Also, look at the first time the Muslims retook Jerusalem in 614, they killed many of the inhabitants of the city.

And likewise, the Crusaders did the same thing when they re-captured the city in 1099.

And more recently, in WWII, the Allies and the Axis attacked civilian populations. Same in WWI.

During history the general population has always been an unwilling participant in wars.

I'm not saying that this is right, for anyone, to do. I'm just saying historically it's true.

Only recently we've made these rules of engagement. The world deems itself as "civilized" and acts horrified when nations do it. But they themselves forget that they have done it.

The world is not "civilized," if it was there would be no war.

 

[Anti_Bodies]

wars are won by doing whatever it takes to defeat your enemy.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

It's not about who's right, but who's left.

 

[Firelord213]

When looking at Elenai's post and Video,
I found some interesting things.

I'll begin with, I'm not like ''Hamas is the best government of all and they never do anything wrong!''.
I know Hamas does A LOT of bad things which I do not support,
They used to suicide bomb civilians (they stopped 3 years ago) which I'm very much against.
As they're in a conflict that's been lasting for 60 years and everyone in Gaza is poor and so is the government, I'm not surprised they use weird tactics like ''Human shields'' (I will get to this later on, O and IF they use human shields).
Many other Nations have been using weird tactics, Like when Japan said they will fight to the last citizen of Japan (With sticks and what ever they can) until that they win over the US, And US nukes them and they surrender and so on.

I will begin with video 1.
I've never seen that guy before (Even if I've been watching lots of hamas videos etc)
but it might be true, I'll ask an Arab friend if he can translate it for me.

Video 2.
''Start''
They say they were guarding the Police house of Hamas, I mean That's the police force, Not Al-Qassam.And they maybe don't want neighbouring buildings to be destroyed since that they live close to there and they'll loose all their property (They have almost nothing since that 50% of Gaza lives under the poverty line) and if they'd loose what they have and then they'd be forced to live out on the streets, And who's going to give them new homes?Israel? Those who have demolished 12.000 homes (Sorry for saying 18.000 before, Long time ago since I read about Israel-Palestine conflict).

And they're tired of being Economically embargoed, All borders owned by Israel, Air space owned by israel and sea space owned by Israel.
I mean why should they move from their homes so that Israel can blow a neighbouring house up.
Why doesn't Israeli people move from their homes so that Al-Qassam can hit Military buildings,Police offices and government buildings.

And 2nd guy who speaks (I've seen him before), He's dead now.
He's one of those who wants to permit suicide bombings of Civilians.
he probably wants all the support he can gain against Israelis as possible.
In the settlements of israel that are illegaly built in Palestine the israeli settlers are armed and ready to fight Hamas if they come.
So when hamas ''bombs'' these people, Is there any difference between those who want to ''defend Hamas'' and those who will fight Hamas (They have weapons for it)

Now the 4TH video litteraly made me laugh.
1st, I linked the video of ''The creation of Al-Qassam rockets'' or W/E it's called.
it's officialy released by Al Qassam Information center.
And they say that they're mainly home-made rockets, And that they were invented by some Al-Qassam soldier.

2nd, The Mine thing,
I'm sorry for being a bit ''noob'' now but is that even a Mine?
And the first thing every Israeli tank will do is driving over piles of Sand inside Cities?
if you look to the left there's no sand,
And is he digging it up or putting it down?
The guy who made the video gives us no what so ever proof, He's only taking out images and using his imagination.

3rd photo,
Yes a kid dressed up as a Suicide bomber,
In my opinion it looks like he took some tape and put sand in it, I mean why would he wear real suicide bombing belts in a crowd that's protesting (''Me thinks it's a protest'')
And as I've said before, hamas does not use Suicide bombing tactics any more (Since 2005) and I dont know how that kid is a ''human'' Human shield to Hamas.
The Video is called ''Hamas human shield'', Why are there images of mines,and kids dressed up as suicide bombers?

4th image,
Al-Qassam soldiers in battle or when out in public (with arms) always wear the Al-Qassam bandana, and mask.
They have none :/
And is there any proof there are any Israeli soldiers over there?
And why the heck wouldn't israeli army shoot back? they didn't hesitate using real bullets in the Intifadas against civilians.

o and again, how do we know it's against IDF? and not against Fatah`?
We're getting no what so ever proofs here, Just images and some random text where he put his imagination in.

5th image,
Aiming his anti tank against A school filled with Children (or something similiar was said)
I don't see any schools, I just see a hamas member with an anti tank aiming at something (We're not able to see what) and some grown up children running around?
Once again, We get no what so ever proofs.

6th image,
I mean WTF LOL, is there even an Hamas member in the Ambulance? all I can see is an ambulance in a very dark image and there's a guy (completely black as we're not able to see anything) and then a guy comming running or running away and it looks like he's holding a stick.

how do we know we use it as an gateway?
how do we know that there's not a family member of the Al-Qassam soldier (if it even is one) or that it's a friend or something?
Once again, NO PROOF.


6th Video)
Idk it's CNN and a spokesman of IDF or something,
I've seen videos of which CNN has been cutting out parts from, (Youtube)
And since IDF is one of the parts in the war they might lie.
BUT I wont say they are lying because I have no what so ever proofs against it (Since I don't have all time I need to lurk around videos and news reports etc)

Also, look at the first time the Muslims retook Jerusalem in 614, they killed many of the inhabitants of the city.

And O SHI- where did you get these facts from?

How did they take it in 614 (And RETOOK LOL?) when Muhammed was the Calipha and It was taken in 632+? Lol @ you.

Any ways, You must mean Umar?
he was a caliph who captured jerusalem, Of what I heard (A preacher said it)
Umar surrounded Jerusalem and besieged it, And said that if you do not surrender we will attack.
And after 4 months of Siege the Christians in jerusalem surrendered (And NO ONE was killed), And the patriarch said that a empire like that can never fall.

Wikipedia:
''With the Arab conquest, Jews were allowed back into the city.[53] The Rashidun caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab signed a treaty with Monophysite Christian Patriarch Sophronius, assuring him that Jerusalem's Christian holy places and population would be protected under Muslim rule.''

D:

 

[3rgytr54]

It's not about who's right, but who's left.

Cannot be more true.

“If we fight a war and win it with H-bombs, what history will remember is not the ideals we were fighting for but the methods we used to accomplish them. These methods will be compared to the warfare of Genghis Khan who ruthlessly killed every last inhabitant of Persia.”

EDIT: still 370! something is wrong

 

[Elenai]

about the 'moving out of a house military target thing'

Why should they move out? Because they are willingly being used as propaganda tools thats why.

everything involving the photos

And yet...Hamas still uses human shields/allows their use. And likewise you yourself admit that Hamas is bad, has done, and still does bad things. So why then should they be given such loving reverence?

IDF is one of the parts in the war they might lie.

And Hamas is telling the full and absolute truth right?

Israel has to be accountable...they are therefore scrutinized, Hamas is not. Who has a better chance of lying?

 

[Firelord213]

Well everyone's pretty much questioning Israel at the moment, They must come up with something (This may not be right, I have no proofs).

Hamas? I've not seen ANYTHING from them since that they have no control or any voice in World Media.
And when they do appear on World Media, Then it's been taken out of the TV-Channel of palestine which is private.
So I don't get how they could be lying when they haven't been saying anything D:.
But yes they would probably lie.

 

[Arvedui]

And O SHI- where did you get these facts from?

How did they take it in 614 (And RETOOK LOL?) when Muhammed was the Calipha and It was taken in 632+? Lol @ you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(614))

"The Siege of Jerusalem in 614 AD was part of the final phase of the Roman-Persian Wars, as the Persian shah Khosrau II and his general Shahrbaraz conquered the Byzantine Middle East"


Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Within the span of a few decades, Jerusalem shifted from Roman to Persian rule and returned to Roman dominion once more. Following Sassanid Khosrau II's early seventh century push into Byzantine, advancing through Syria, Sassanid Generals Shahrbaraz and Shahin attacked the Byzantine-controlled city of Jerusalem."


It's like you didn't actually read the map. The earliest date is 622 D:

I lol.

Any ways, You must mean Umar?
he was a caliph who captured jerusalem, Of what I heard (A preacher said it)
Umar surrounded Jerusalem and besieged it, And said that if you do not surrender we will attack.
And after 4 months of Siege the Christians in jerusalem surrendered (And NO ONE was killed), And the patriarch said that a empire like that can never fall.

Wikipedia:
''With the Arab conquest, Jews were allowed back into the city.[53] The Rashidun caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab signed a treaty with Monophysite Christian Patriarch Sophronius, assuring him that Jerusalem's Christian holy places and population would be protected under Muslim rule.''

D:

"In the Siege of Jerusalem (614), after 21 days of relentless siege warfare, Jerusalem was captured and the Persian victory resulted in the territorial annexation of Jerusalem. After the Sassanid army entered Jerusalem, the holy "True Cross" was stolen and sent back to the Sassanian capital as a battle-captured holy relic. Persians massacred up to 90,000 Christians. The conquered city and the Holy Cross would remain in Sassanid hands for some fifteen years until the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius recovered them in 629."

D:

EDIT: maybe I misused the word Muslim, thus confused you, sorry. Meant Arabs.

 

[Firelord213]

Persians were enemies of the muslims ?
Only Saudi Arabians were muslims at this time,
Persia wasn't muslim at that time lol.

AND BTW, I don't get why Umar would massacre Christians, As Umar was in Jihad against the Arabs, (True Jihad, Not Al Qaeda Jihad)
And true Jihad doesn't allow you to kill one single Woman,Child nor old man or anyone who's working on the fields etc (No innocents may die)
And Umar who was part in this and learned a lot of Muhammad, Why would he do such a thing?
As muslims at that time were very good muslims

 

[Arvedui]

Edited my post. I wrote the wrong word :/

 

[Firelord213]

They're not arabs either lol.
They're Persians >.<
That's like calling Swedes Portuguese.

 

[Arvedui]

It's the same as calling all white people Caucasian.

It's the vernacular. Most people refer to people from the Middle-East as Arab. Not just me.

 

[NinjasDontFight]

Say, I think all this terrorism and stockmarket crashes are just all one big (American) conspiracy. Just to get attention, credit and lots of stolen resources.

I am an ignorant person who doesn't know very much about anything, especially not America, enough to properly back up my outrageous claims.

 

[Arvedui]

The stockmarket crash today(withen this year) is going to be no diffrent from 1929. This government is run by idoutic, silver-spooned officials that are running America into the ground. Americans are arrogant fools who think they are gods. Most of the population is to ignorant or care-free to give a shit about the economy.
We aren't having a real conspiracy, sure the politicians are taking bribes from all over the world. But its not like their going into groups and scheming.

lol fail troll fails.

 

[Ash]

I tl;dr'd the thread, but you mean war of terror, right?

EDIT: Just read a bit higher, how did you manage to switch this to Israel?

The topic is about the war in Iraq, if you'd like to discuss Israel Vs Hamas, then feel free to discuss it, in another thread.

 

[3rgytr54]

The stockmarket crash today(withen this year) is going to be no diffrent from 1929. This government is run by idoutic, silver-spooned officials that are running America into the ground. Americans are arrogant fools who think they are gods. Most of the population is to ignorant or care-free to give a shit about the economy.
We aren't having a real conspiracy, sure the politicians are taking bribes from all over the world. But its not like their going into groups and scheming.

Its a global world now. If stuff here goes, other places will have problems. And by the way, its not the government.

 

[Arvedui]

I tl;dr'd the thread, but you mean war of terror, right?

EDIT: Just read a bit higher, how did you manage to switch this to Israel?

The topic is about the war in Iraq, if you'd like to discuss Israel Vs Hamas, then feel free to discuss it, in another thread.

Well since Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization, it still applies.

And I suppose it's my fault, I responded to Aeroblytctos post, after I asked that the thread be closed.

Stupid me.

 

[GrandEnder]

Zeitguiest explains alot of 9/11 and terrorist actions. Most of the war in Iraq was the United States wanting larger oil reserves.

 

[3rgytr54]

Ash, its all his fault.

Who is Zeitguiest, GrandEnder?

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Genocide... That reminds me of what is happening currently; Israel is slaughtering people in Gaza.

Wrong. Israel ordered the people to leave a LONG time ago. Hamas is using innocents as meat-shields, so how are they supposed to get Hamas? Do tell! Do they ask politely for the civilians to move out of the way?

And why shouldn't Israel "pwn" the shit out of Hamas anyway? Don't you think they were given enough shit from Hamas? Do you know how many innocent Israelis die daily? If your country was being terrorized, don't you think you'd do something about it?

The U.N. is anti-semitic garbage- Israel has had it with their preaches about "peace treaties" (which, by the way, Hamas broke). So is Israel just going to turn the other cheek? Not this time. No sir. Time for payback.

Edit: WOA. I didn't realize how many pages this thread contained... I thought it was two! My deepest apologies... I just felt I had to rebut Aeroblyctos' statement.

 

[3rgytr54]

Wrong. Israel ordered the people to leave a LONG time ago. Hamas is using innocents as meat-shields, so how are they supposed to get Hamas? Do tell! Do they ask politely for the civilians to move out of the way?

And why shouldn't Israel "pwn" the shit out of Hamas anyway? Don't you think they were given enough shit from Hamas? Do you know how many innocent Israelis die daily? If your country was being terrorized, don't you think you'd do something about it?

The U.N. is anti-semitic garbage- Israel has had it with their preaches about "peace treaties" (which, by the way, Hamas broke). So is Israel just going to turn the other cheek? Not this time. No sir. Time for payback.

Edit: WOA. I didn't realize how many pages this thread contained... I thought it was two! My deepest apologies... I just felt I had to rebut Aeroblyctos' statement.

/\
||
|| short history of what has been going on, haha.
||


But your edit made it all worth while.

 

[Arvedui]

Zeitgeist, was a propaganda film that is filled with bullshit.

Once again, I ask this thread be closed.

Again, I re-iterate: I'm sorry 3rgytr54, but this was a flame fest waiting to happen.

Discussions like this belong on Medivh's Tower.

No good can come from an open topic, such as this one. People will get angry, hurt, whatever.

Maybe not as of yet, but eventually, some prick is going to come up and say something completely ridiculous and nonsensical that will completely derail the thread and get people negrepped or banned.

It's happened in almost every other thread like this. I don't want that to happen here.

 

[3rgytr54]

I see it coming.. but 7.5 and only a little one.. If i see a downturn I'll make sure to ask And thanks for the info on the movie that I have never heard of because it was crap.

 

[Hakeem]

Zeitgeist, was a propaganda film that is filled with bullshit.

Baby with the bath water. If the baby is still alive in all that bath water...

Once again, I ask this thread be closed.

We do not permit users to close threads. There is no "report thread" feature. You can report posts. Being an idiot and/or biased is not a directly punishable offense.

Furthermore, a lot of users have been asking for this thread to be closed. Why do not these users instead just follow the rules and let the moderators worry about keeping a thread open?

Discussions like this belong on Medivh's Tower.

Medivh's Tower is a forum for people who can hold a proper debate. The rules state the the topic need not be serious, but the way it is discussed must be. If someone doesn't have MT membership, their only other option is to post here where any random idiot can post.

No good can come from an open topic, such as this one. People will get angry, hurt, whatever.

And maybe someone will come along who has a good point.

Maybe not as of yet, but eventually, some prick is going to come up and say something completely ridiculous and nonsensical that will completely derail the thread and get people negrepped or banned.

People get themselves -repped and banned. The moderators are the ones that do it, but they do it because of the actions of the user.

It's happened in almost every other thread like this. I don't want that to happen here.

Then tell people to keep it civil.

---

As with any war, even games of Warcraft, the key thing is resources. Whoever has more wins. To stop a war, you stop the resources from flowing.

Maybe I'm naive, but the area doesn't seem all that good for mining to me.

 

[3rgytr54]

Medivh's Tower is a forum for people who can hold a proper debate. The rules state the the topic need not be serious, but the way it is discussed must be. If someone doesn't have MT membership, their only other option is to post here where any random idiot can post.

I laughed at the bold part.

But in all seriousness,

As with any war, even games of Warcraft, the key thing is resources. Whoever has more wins. To stop a war, you stop the resources from flowing.

Maybe I'm naive, but the area doesn't seem all that good for mining to me.

Wars can never be won by fighting alone.

"Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you. "

EDIT: I'm still 370 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!