Vikings - Feels like ripoff to me

[orangebox]

Viking
Builds From: Factory
Armament: Twin Gatling Cannon (assault mode)
MT50 Lanzer Torpedoes (fighter mode)
Role: Air Combat/Ground Support

"Based heavily on the transformation design of the terran siege tank, the viking was designed to be the ultimate anti-air and ground-support weapon system. With the ability to change its combat role from an assault walker to an air-superiority fighter, the viking can switch smoothly to fulfill tactical needs in a developing battle."

Macross, anyone? *iseevalkyriesinkonigmonsterbodies*

 

[Mechanical Man]

what the hell is macross?

 

[orangebox]

Robotech?

 

[Eleandor]

...

ALL units in Starcraft and Starcraft 2 are ripoffs.

 

[Zombie]

Agreed. Watch some Alien movies, dude!

 

[PurplePoot]

What matters is that the games are awesome, not where the ideas came from.

 

[orangebox]

What matters is that the games are awesome, not where the ideas came from.

That's what concerns you. But what concerns me is that, being a gaming company this well known, they could've at least came up with original concept designs. What are they paying the concept artists for? To rip off concept from other works? I can do that too. I find this act rather appalling. I mean, most of SC looked like it came from Warhammer 40k, that was near the point of unbearable. But now they do it again from another title. What do you think the one being ripped off feels? Their hard work researching and coming up with concept arts.

Why are people fine with ripoffs? I for one am not.

(Tripods, War of the Worlds >> C&C Tiberium Wars >> Now, SCII)

(Variable Fighters, Macross >> ROBOTECH >> SC2 >> And lastly, the just released RA3 which previews Tengu in the Empire)

Hmm :/

 

[Eleandor]

That's what concerns you. But what concerns me is that, being a gaming company this well known, they could've at least came up with original concept designs. What are they paying the concept artists for? To rip off concept from other works? I can do that too. I find this act rather appalling. I mean, most of SC looked like it came from Warhammer 40k, that was near the point of unbearable. But now they do it again from another title. What do you think the one being ripped off feels? Their hard work researching and coming up with concept arts.

LOL.

Like I said, starcraft was a major ripoff from MANY scifi sources and mixing all those ideas made the game original. Add an incredible polishment to that (typical to blizzard) and you get a great game. I mean, Starcraft contained units from:

- Warhammer 40K
- Alien
- Starship troopers
- Predator
- ...

Now they add some new units such as the colossus (tripod?) and viking (transformers more than anything else, I mean I never heard of macross, ever). So what? I don't see any problems at all.

Those sources in turn stole ideas from other sources. I mean, you don't think Warhammer 40K is the most original world ever? It's not as if they just copy/paste idea's. The viking has a transform ability, great, so had the siege tank. So why don't you call the siege tank a rip-off?

 

[PurplePoot]

So tell me, how are you supposed to come up with 3 races that are actually original? I can link just about any idea to something that's been done before with ease.

 

[orangebox]

No offense, I as a learning artist finds that this act isn't really proper. It's like gaining glory over another person's hard work.

Eleandor > Like I said, it's to my concerns. I mean, why hire a concept art team for that if all they do is rip off designs from somewhere else? That's a rather simple task anyone can do, no? Hell even I can do it =w=

Siege Tank a ripoff? No, clearly I think that's quite an iconic design for StarCraft. The concept artists on the past team did quite a good job. The vehicle designs, etc etc. All has their own originality. (Flying buildings in any RTS? The Terrans has it.) But now, we see copies from one game to another. What is up with that? Note, Colossus from C&C?

Not to mention, RA3 concept art team might've even ripped off the Viking design into the Tengu we see. If not Viking, from the original Macross/Robotech.

Well if you actually compared a Konig Monster from Macross / Robotech to the Viking. It's exactly THE SAME THING with different outlooks. Oh right, the weaponries are different too.

PurplePoot > I'm saying CONCEPT DESIGNS. Visual concept designs. That's what concept artists are for, and the team in Blizzard isn't doing exactly a fine job. I mean, the Goliath has it's own flair. It gives me an impression of STARCRAFT imprinted on it. Siege Tank will be remembered forever as one of SC's iconic vehicles. Hell, the Battlecruisers and Wraith designs are good. Why rip off when they can produce such good designs?

But the sad thing is that when I see the Viking, or the Colossus, I don't see STARCRAFT. I see RIPOFF imprinted.

Edit : Just in case I'm mistaken to be criticizing on the race designs, I'm not. That was a side information I just felt like including into my post. The main concern here is the designs at hand.

Like how Eleandor suggested that Vikings = Transformers, IMO it barely resembled it. Has distinct resemblance but not too much. Transformers = Robots (non-piloted) which can transform to and from anything to anything. They can be a tape recorder at a time, and a giant robot the next. Though, Vikings = Konig Monsters from Robotech/Macross, the mechanics is exactly the same. Piloted aircrafts which can transform into an inverted bipedal mech without arms, instead weapon-based arms, like them mechs in Mech Warrior. These ideas may have slight individual similarities, but they are considered original in this time and day. You can never find original in it's original meaning. Not to mention original, they are popular too.

I mean, compare some other mecha anime with another mecha anime. The slight difference in design differentiates them from one another, although they are generally MECHA. Like Gundams, they are mechs with samurai based designs. Compare it with, say, Macross. Even though both have humanoid forms, but the mechs in Macross are aircraft based designs and can transform from Jet > Inversed bipedal MechWarrior-ish mechs > Humanoid mechs > Jet. They still have their very own retained originality. Although little, but from today's standards, it's already acceptable based off the current scarcity of originality as stated by Purple.

But looking at the Colossus and the Viking...Mmeh...

 

[Massive_attack]

Okay first of all

The viking looks nothing like the fighter in robotech. Not even close.

Secondly, red alert 3 is NOT a fair example, the tengu was intentionally designed to resemble the robotech mech, in keeping with the empire of the rising sun's stereotyped anime flair.

Additionally, the concept of a large quadrupedal/tripod mech has been around for a long time, its sort of a more general idea now, i really hate how people attach any mech of this type to that stupid movie (or that good book, but i cant remember if they had tripods in there).

And honestly, the colossus bears no resemblance to either the CnC 3 tripod or the war of the worlds (movie) mechs besides the fact that it shoots a laser and that it has 4 legs.

I would like to see you come up with something better.

 

[Tyranid]

In these days it's kind of hard to be original since almost everything has already been done. Honestly, I don't see why is it so wrong to get inspiration from other people's material as long as it's not a platant rip-off.

Also Warhammer 40,000, thought old, also takes from other sources, like Starship Troopers (1950s Novel, had The Bugs and perhaps the first Space Marines), Star Wars in some ways and also some other materials.

Also on the Viking;"Transformers, robots in disquise! Transform and roll out!"

 

[orangebox]

Okay first of all

The viking looks nothing like the fighter in robotech. Not even close.

Secondly, red alert 3 is NOT a fair example, the tengu was intentionally designed to resemble the robotech mech, in keeping with the empire of the rising sun's stereotyped anime flair.

Additionally, the concept of a large quadrupedal/tripod mech has been around for a long time, its sort of a more general idea now, i really hate how people attach any mech of this type to that stupid movie (or that good book, but i cant remember if they had tripods in there).

And honestly, the colossus bears no resemblance to either the CnC 3 tripod or the war of the worlds (movie) mechs besides the fact that it shoots a laser and that it has 4 legs.

I would like to see you come up with something better.

Right, just let me get this straight. What I'm concerned here is the idea of a Mech which is able to transform from and to an Aircraft, Reversed bipedal legged walker and lastly a humanoid form. Visually bearing the likeness of 100% will of course get licensing. Blizzard won't be stupid enough to approve designs if it was 100% similar. All they had to do is get some lazy concept artists and design something based off an already existing and interesting design. It's basically re-shelling the designs.

Here's the KONIG MONSTER, the model which I am comparing to the Viking, like I've been saying the past few posts.

Shuttle mode

Destroid mode (an older model of the one I showed, it looks slightly similar but not entirely the same as the one shown in Shuttle mode)

And RA3 not being a fair example, why is that? That's the whole reason why I'm writing this lol. Ripping off designs because they wanted that 'flare'?

Well to me, it does. Long-legged, shoots lasers, alien faction. Hmm? I didn't mind Tiberium Wars getting the idea from War of the Worlds. Since they are portraying aliens. But starcraft 2, being the continuation of SC, and seeing past RTS (Tiberium Wars) had this design out earlier, it just gives me that feeling of SC2 ripping off Tiberium Wars.

Yeah I think I might be able to come out with something better if I'm payed to do it. I mean, the concept art team is paid, and considered pro, but why are the designs not giving me a very good impression? Blizzard should do something about this, seriously.

Look at it this way too. Gundam 00's Union Flag is using a similar mechanical design of Macross. They have this Mech > Fighter transformation. But it has it's original flare. Why? The design outlooks! It looks NOTHING like Macross, even though it has the same mechanical designs. If Blizzard would want to come up with a Viking, I would like to see a redesign on it's outlooks so that it bears no likeliness to any other existing titles.

Not that I'm dissing the entire crew, I love the rest of the designs. Personal fav, Thor. But the Colossus and the Viking, geez!

 

[rober artua]

WoW Orcs and Elves are ripped from Tolkien but their design was remade slightly , so what ? I think Murloc is the only true Blizzard creation

By the way look at the space marine . It is definitely super ripoff .

 

[Mechanical Man]

omg lord of the rings ripped footmen from ... real life. Sue them!!!

 

[FlamyoftheHive]

If you examine all universes, its all ripped from each other. Nothing is ever original in the world because someone did it. But someone I once had the displeasure of playing with in an RP said Spell Warriors were unoriginal and that he has done them thousands of times. Then again thats when my Main RP wasnt established and the host chewed him out. It wasnt a pretty sight to say because his was a complete rip off of the worst show on the planet DBZ. EVERYTHING IS A RIP OFF! But how they redesign is what matters.

 

[orangebox]

To Rober Artua and Mechanical Man :

I would really appreciate it if you actually read what I wrote. Seriously, an advise from me to you. Do read everything and stop posting what's totally out of topic. You're basically humiliating yourself. If you actually read what I wrote in this thread, you'll find out that what you wrote has nothing to do at all with what I'm concerned about. I don't want to re-quote my previous posts OR retype everything I've typed earlier. But if you want to, fine. I don't mind.

Flamy : Exactly. "EVERYTHING IS A RIP OFF! But how they redesign is what matters." My concern is the way they redesigned it. I've even written a good example of a redesign in my previous post if ANYONE even read it.

"Look at it this way too. Gundam 00's Union Flag is using a similar mechanical design of Macross. They have this Mech > Fighter transformation. But it has it's original flare. Why? The design outlooks! It looks NOTHING like Macross, even though it has the same mechanical designs. If Blizzard would want to come up with a Viking, I would like to see a redesign on it's outlooks so that it bears no likeliness to any other existing titles."

 

[LordDz]

Orangebox, what everyone is basicly saying is:

So what?

It's like saying that Cod 2 is bad cause it got guns from MOH...

 

[orangebox]

Lord, you're just saying exactly what rober and mech said. I don't think I need to repeat myself again?

 

[LordDz]

Why not?
As I don't see your point . Yes, they might be inspired by something, but what should you use instead?

 

[orangebox]

Just read all my posts, you'd get it. It's plain annoying to have to retype 3 times.

I don't get the "Yes, they might be inspired by something, but what should you use instead?" Could you rephrase?

Like I said, (this is the 3rd time) My concerns over this matter is that the concept art team is PAID to deliver pro designs. If they are paid to simply rip off designs in this manner, anyone can do it. Why hire them?

I don't mind the idea of using an existing base idea as a starting step of concepting a new vehicle. But, even the outlook of the designs bears so much similarities. With that said example I've written earlier (The Gundam 00 example), that is a much better way of doing so. Although they used the concept of a transforming mech > fighter and vice versa, they didn't use the same outlook as Macross mechs. Instead, they have their own looks which distinguishes them from a Valkyrie / Destroids to a Union Flag.

If Blizzard truely wishes to have Viking out, at the least, redesign it's outlooks so that it looks original. I mean, they did great with the other designs. Hell, I love most of their designs. But it's just these two seriously failing it. All the other designs in the game has this StarCraft 2 labeled on it. It gives me the impression it's from StarCraft universe. But the Colossus and the Viking doesn't.

God, could anyone who just wished to give out your opinions PLEASE read all that I've wrote? This is literally bashing me indirectly. If you have read it, you won't come up with short phrases stating something along the lines of "Everything is ripped off," or "Ripping off is good because there's nothing original," and shit like that. I'm simply giving out my dissatisfaction/critique over their designs. I love the game, I want it to be better, not to turn into some lame rip off designs in the game.

 

[Eleandor]

Well I don't know, but I think the designs look pretty original. Sure, the colossus is obviously based on the tripod, but the art is different enough. Equally different as the siege tank is different from any WW II tank.

 

[Mechanical Man]

What outlook you mean? That both look like toys? Yes, sadly blizzard moved in that direction (but not only blizzard). Anyway tons of games have mechs (of course each with their more or less unique design) like that, if you call it ripoffs or not. And many times so called ripoffs are made accidentally, you just give two legs, two arms as machine guns, somewhat a humanoid structure, plastic textures and voila you have ripoff of an unknown mech. You know, many times happened to invent the same thing or write almost the same melody without knowing each other.

But I agree that blizzard should retain their sc1 concept style (where metal actually looked like metal), non going plastik fantastik.

 

[rober artua]

Just read all my posts, you'd get it. It's plain annoying to have to retype 3 times.

I don't get the "Yes, they might be inspired by something, but what should you use instead?" Could you rephrase?

Like I said, (this is the 3rd time) My concerns over this matter is that the concept art team is PAID to deliver pro designs. If they are paid to simply rip off designs in this manner, anyone can do it. Why hire them?

I have read your thread and all what I understand is that you do not like design of two models because they do not look like they belong to SC universe and that they are ripoffs .

Well what can I say ?

The concept artists show their concepts to the head master of the project and if he is happy with these concepts then it is worth it .


If you have better concepts perhaps you could send them to Blizz and they will use them instead old ones .

Lets make competition for Viking concept and then Let us choose the best one and send it to BLIZZ

P.S. Do not worry somebody will definitely make tons of good models for SC2 There are many ppl who can !!! I am actually thinking of my old model BRON .

I think I could make another one for SC2 but much better !

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

What are you whining about orangebox, Blizzard have their own idea models and others are most likely based on some other game/movie's model, so what? Then are developed with Blizzard's own ideas, animations even some model changes and abilities, own name etc.

You blame them they take the ideas from games or movies..... How do you have imagination? From nothingness? You have to see a lot of spaceship pics, then you have enough imagination to create your own spaceship with some shapes coz the idea of some shapes unlocks new ideas but that can't happen from nothing. And movies use physicists and engineers to design a scheme of how a spaceship looks like, based on airplane engineering. Blizzard had to go through alrdy made ships and developed in their own ways, you have proof that they just had one tab opened on a random game's model while shaping their own to look exactly 1:1? Unless that's like a game model's rip and modification... such ripoff whine is just useless.

Hey you say Battlecruiser are from the few unique Blizz models. Why? Aren't they the Startrek spaceship where they replaced the huge disk-like part with the hammer shape and put it on the front. While theyr back part is similar. Or maybe they changed some other models so much but based them on other games, that you cannot even guess what they based them on. Every game has taken ideas from another game or movies LOLOL. Sue them all.

 

[PimpMunkeh]

Warcraft was ripped from Warhammer totally and was melded with LotR lore influences as its universe grew. Even Blizzard says they take flavors from all types to make their own. The Night Elves, a mash of the Drow (from the DnD Drow, not real mythos), Druidic lifestyle, Amazon mythos, Nordic and Japanese influences.

Just for the sake of arguement, I've been to school for art since before I even graduated highschool. There is nothing wrong with being influenced or even using another's artwork to help you evolve an idea. Starcraft is now its original own regime of gritty sci-fi because of this method. Its supported in the educated art community and should continue to be. You can't grow without experiances; and blizzard's experiances clearly show in their artwork and concepts. Doesn't mean they are ripping anything off; just mean they are making someting else their own. Doesn't mean I like the "Viking" here, the unit in question; but I see no reason why to flame Blizzard for something that is clearly, just an opinion of taste and not of any real argumenitive value.

 

[Razorbrain]

im gonna go ahead and quote a line from a good movie

"only becouse you came up with an idea, doesnt mean it belongs to you"

 

[Serbianbeast]

rober artua has invited you to join group: So what?

Request accepted!

nuff said

 

[rober artua]

One more thing should be mentioned here . Some of the artist who work on one project like Wc3 could possibly work on another project like Warhammers in past . Therefore their concepts can have similarity . Alternatively some of the artists could be inspired by other artists and therefore their work could have similarity with other art works of these kind .

For instance lets take a look at Gentle Giant Studios : Gentle Giant Studios

They have made lots of sculpts for different projects like Harry potter , Pan's Labyrinth , Video Game Character Design and many more . I am not saying that they have similarity but it is very possible in this case . For example the skull which is shown in Z Brush sculpture of Rookwood is similar to the skull for Video Game Character Design.
It looks like they just used same skull in both sculpts .

I hope you see my point

 

[Ash]

This thread is faggotry of the highest degree; if you actually think anything is original -- least of all what blizzard spews out -- then you should sent to a 'rehabilitation centre'.

 

[~Void~]

That's what concerns you. But what concerns me is that, being a gaming company this well known, they could've at least came up with original concept designs. What are they paying the concept artists for? To rip off concept from other works? I can do that too. I find this act rather appalling. I mean, most of SC looked like it came from Warhammer 40k, that was near the point of unbearable. But now they do it again from another title. What do you think the one being ripped off feels? Their hard work researching and coming up with concept arts.

Why are people fine with ripoffs? I for one am not.

(Tripods, War of the Worlds >> C&C Tiberium Wars >> Now, SCII)

(Variable Fighters, Macross >> ROBOTECH >> SC2 >> And lastly, the just released RA3 which previews Tengu in the Empire)

Hmm :/

Fuck WH40k.

 

[D.I.Y Death]

This thread is full of win. Even if the viking was semi ripped off why does it matter? Are you paying the art team and telling them to make 100% original concepts? I'll answer that for you: no you aren't. So either shut up or actually listen to what 9/10ths of the people here are saying.

 

[LordDz]

All I have to add:

The Mech that can fly in RA3 is a ripoff on the viking.

 

[HappyTauren]

I have to say:

Night Elves are a rip off Amazon.
Dwarves are totally Nordic people.
Undead are a classic, neither-dead-nor-alive-people.
Orcs are probably neanderthals.
Tauren are those shamanistic, "primitive culture" people.
Gnomes and Goblins are just "small and intelligent", how original?
Pandaren are just a ripoff of eastern culture.
Humans are European ("noble") people.

And I could go on. Originality in games? To some degree, but interpreted a different way.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

oh yeah. if you look up hydralisk early concept, one of the "concept" looks just like ravener from wh40k.
"concept"
yes... some concept.
and reaper or whatever its called, looking from the demo, looks just like an assault marine. i mean how they move and explanation of how they are supposed to function.
then blizzard went that extra mile. you know. just to make sure that everyone knew they were ripping 40k, and showed that the reaper have a special ability where they throw a structure-effective explosive. Melta-bomb anyone?
seriously, after playing dawn of war and then looking at the space marine demo, i lost almost all my respect for blizzard.

however
i take design classes and my teacher said on the first day of class
"there is no such thing as an original idea" everyone rips off everyone.
however the really inportant thing, i think, is how you put that ideas together. aka. how much it sells

hydralisk for example. although it is a rip off, i definitely prefer the hydralisk design compared to the ravener design. more simplified and characteristic. no dangling bio-weapons, no distracting horns and stuff and looks quite unique among its race. and become a like a culture icon in korea. tyranids, they all look the same which i found to be boring.

reaper remains to be seen since all i have seen is concept art, which is pretty and all but dont tell me shit about the real thing

 

[Ghost765]

wh40k IS the original idea. it has such a variety of generic races that it can really sue anything that involves aliens and the future.

 

[Ash]

wh40k IS the original idea. it has such a variety of generic races that it can really sue anything that involves aliens and the future.

Nope

 

[Ghost765]

yes.
im not afraid of your rep gems.

 

[Ash]

Okay, the whole intelligent discourse we were going to have has just been negated by the omgwtf retarded comment you just left.

'Im not afraid of your rep gems', say that aloud to yourself, and try and figure out how stupid you just sounded.

 

[Karawasa]

This thread is a result of human nature. When you get into a particular field, you start to analyze and critique work in that field more than the lay man.

The OP, being an artist, is surely justified regarding his viewpoints. The problem is that the points will most likely be lost on the lay man (i.e. the rest of us).

That is what you have to understand OP, most people won't give a fuck. Take pride in the fact that you have more "depth perception" so to speak regarding these matters. But realize that most others do not.