Tech Tree

[PurplePoot]

@ depleeted gueysers being a waste..
well there better than nothing if your currently trapped in your base... with no other guysers to mine

If you are contained with no gas you lose regardless of whether your gas income is next to nothing rather than nothing.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

95% of the time yes... although it can still help sometimes... its a minor feature..., besides if it were redesigned as 'replinishing' rather than permanently depleted, maybe it would only start to regenerate, after the point of depletion, up to its innitial value. possibly fast enough for a single worker to continue harvesting (rather than requireing 3 to harvest for 1)

for humans you probably wouldnt bother, but for zerg and protoss, your main is already built, might as well... (humans can always come back for it later)

resources might regenerate fast enough to support 2-3 workers depending on the patch size..

im all for short games... but i also really love those long epic games.. where this, easy to impliment feature would have a bigger impact than shorter games

 

[PurplePoot]

In long games having an extra third of a base's gas income won't particularly help when you are a base or three behind. There's a reason you didn't really ever see anyone bothering to mine depleted gas in SC1 unless their workers had nothing better to do.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

it wont help much... but who says your 3 bases behind...

maybe you have the same number of undepleted bases as your enemy... and then on top of it the depleted one... thats enough to help turn the tides...
and in sc1 it takes 3 workers, to harvest what 1 worker from an undepleted can do..., whereas setting it up my way, 1 worker will be able to mine, a depleted, as fast as an undepleted... it just wont be able to support 3 workers at all..

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Heres the Zerg tech tree as of now, Also updated the first post

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

You know, when I first saw terran units not regenerating I was like 'whaaaat?' I dont remember how it was in old SC but they could've made like 1 life per 1 minute just to make them regenerate. I know it cant be like the zerg regeneration or protoss would regenerate both and terran would regenerate too, but just as slow as it is, regeneration. So weird without it even if sc didn't have it, like why copy sc more than what is already copied.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

yah in sc1 terrain didnt regen at all, zerg got like 1 hp, every 2-4 secs, toss got like 1 shield a sec

are you saying i should make terran regen?, any minor regen i add on them, wont really matter since they have medics anyways XD.. but yah, i might aswell give terrain 1hp regen, every 10~ seconds or sumthin

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I was talking about melee in general but sure why not if you're doing this techtree. In war3 units could regen cause organic units regenerate. I find it strange they don't and this is smth Blizzard should do. It wouldn't kill the balance if each organic regenerated 1 life/min.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

The main reason sc1 humans didnt regenerate, was likely optamization..
why include lines of script that simply increase the lag, with no other gameplay effect 99% of the time (even though the 'lag' would have been miniscule.. it was still uncalled for.. also i think they were trying to make it more REAL TIME', and guess what.. humans dont regenerate health on a minute basis.. lol... then again, a single person with a saudering iron, couldnt make a command center in 2-3 minutes either..., but that was forced to be scaled down.. for obvious reasons XD, that actually affected gameplay

 

[PurplePoot]

Erm, no. The reason that SC1 Terran (and SC2 Terran) don't regenerate is because in Starcraft regeneration is a Zerg ability, nothing more, nothing less. Considering Terran buildings burned down, Protoss shields recharged, and Zerg units/buildings regenerated, you can't pin such a miniscule effect as Marines/Medics/Firebats/Ghosts regenerating as laggy.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

eh...
but humans have the 'ability' to regenerate aswell IRL, which i would asume same for most living species...

although diversity for diversitys sake is a valid reason aswell...
the zerg could just as easily had the ability to 'quickly' regenerate lost health, as they earn hitpoints every second..., infact humans regeneration wouldnt have to be even noted, how miniscule it would be... (esp if they kept up with time),
Lets say a marine heals 1 hp, every day, and 1 hp every night (asuming a day and night cycle... that wouldnt bother zergs mechanic in the least, while adding the 'easter egg' that helps 'some' people satisfy the sense of realism...

the actual mechanic of zerg, even compared to human hasnt changed... except for a slightly lower need to send a medic to heal that scv, that just got hit by a zergling...
beyond that, there is no percieved effect, besides a small chance of surviving a fight by 1-2 hp that would have otherwise killed you... which is simply a balance issue... albeit a minor one that probably wouldnt warrant any balance changes for... (even a .1% attack rate increase, would be beyond enough to counteract the effects of this regeneration

 

[The World Is Flat]

SCVs are mechanical, they arent healable by medics.

No single game can last over 24 hours, sc2 will time out i belive.

Healing a army of wounded lings is a game-saving mechanic.

 

[PurplePoot]

eh...
but humans have the 'ability' to regenerate aswell IRL, which i would asume same for most living species...

And in real life an infantryman is not magically produced out of a structure that is only above ten times his size. So?

(Also, regeneration in real life is long-term and negligible; major wounds don't regenerate)

 

[The World Is Flat]

If a zergling was able to get one attack in on a marine, realisticaly, it would die from woulds quickly... but they dont.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

@ scvs.. that is something that affects balance, and thus super-cedes the rules of logic

@ healing lings: it is and they do... fast
infact if you were to calculate their rate of regeneration, it would likely be quick enough to watch the wounds close up before your eyes.. and heal over a 10~ 15 minute process (real time), (or roughly a 30 second process gametime)

@magically produced: again a balance mechanic.. but who knows maybe their clones and are magically produced, just in an under-exagerated time..

@wounds healing over a life time... depends on the types...

because marines are in an armored, suit, i would asume 80% of injurys are bruises/concussions ect... which do infact heal rather fast (a week or 2)

im not sure, but the game has a day/night cycle? atleast in some campaigns...
which is roughly 8 minutes per cycle, which seems like a reasonable under-exageration of the actual day, making the whole setup more believable..

Nowdays fully healing over a 2-3 month period, for some near-fatal injurys isnt all that unbelievable (55(marineHP) = 27 'day/night cycles' roughly 1 month) especially since im sure, that marines in that era, have quite a few medical advances, they can apply to themselfs (nano-bots?), stim packs.. ect...

@zergling getting 1 attack on a marine would kill him
well i asume you asume this wound would get through his suit, and hit a vital body-part...

either way, without feelings of 'pain' which medication can easily bring..
the marine wouldnt keel over.. and steroids would keep the heart pumping... aswell as whatever other advanced triag the suit itself has equiped inside....

@ the attack system
i believe it is already built around chance... but without the chance (average)
they figure that a zergling gets an attack in... it may 'kill' its target..
but not every hit actually would hit its target, (im sure marines can dodge claws sometimes), so rather the game asumes, the average marine can dodge an average 10 attacks in his life-time...
so then they just make it easy for the users.. and say.. after 10 attacks the unit dies...

otherwise every attack would deal 0-(a rough estimate of max dmg, likely the strongest attack in the 99th % of chance (an attack even from the weakest unit that can even harm someone, would have the potential for a perfect critical shot) (people have died from paper cuts, although its a slow death from disease... its root cause is still a papercut)

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Terra

Terran Tech tree innitial here we go.. crits? feedback?

I know its been changed far more drastically then the zerg.. and i still duno if i should set it back to the old barracks>factory>starport...

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Been thinking long and hard.. how to make battlecruisers (and otherships) even remotely comparable with smaller units like hydralisk, while still giving them insane amounts of hitpoints/armor/damage.... (Battlecruiser2000 hp~, 800 armor~, 260 dmg~), vs ground melee with far less souped down stats, (HydraliskHp 140~, Armor 80~, Dmg 20~)

The things i have decided on, is increasing evasion conciderably, (but allowing for missed attacks to have a chance (probably around 50% of the chance to hit to do one of the following %'s of their attacks dmg (1%,5%,10%, 50%)

Another update will be the inclusion of ACURACY, which is the main reason evasion stats are down. Acuracy will be expressed as a whole number in the tooltip, but is basically a %, ranging from 80 to 160 (yes that means you can have up to a 150% chance to hit a target.. ill explain next)

Critical Hits: If the overall chance to hit a target is greater than 100%, the hit is guaranteed, and the extra % is a chance to crit (50% bonus dmg, that bypasses armor)

This system at maximum advantage(for attacked) will give: (battlecruiser (80 acuracy)vs zergling(63% moving evasion)
a 29.6% chance to hit the zergling(for full damage), and (@50%) a 15%~ chance to deal partial damage, meaning about a 42% chance to kill the zergling, and a 2% (about the odds of a partial hit at 1% dmg)

and at max advantage (for attacker) will give, a 60% chance for MORE 50% (armor bypassing) damage.

This system lends strength to smaller and more agile units (mainly organic)
allowing for me to greatly increase the strength of heavy/mechanical units to compensate. (atleast twice as strong)

Hp decimal: hp will go to the tenths place, allowing for more acurate damage.




Mechanics Update:

ADDED
-Acuracy
-Critical Strikes
-Partial Strikes
-HP Decimal

Formula: (([acuracy#]-[CliffEvasion%*100]*(1-([evasion base%]*[evasion multiplyer#]/100)))/= Chance to hit %

NEED:
A opinions on which armor system to use, here is a list of some possible solutions (ranked in my current preference)

1. Double armor system (dmg is reduced by 1/10th the armor you got), Or wc3s armor system @ 1% (which ever deals more damage)
800 armor, reduces attacks by either 80 damage, OR 80%, whichever is more damage.

2. Scs current (10 armor is - 10 dmg)
3. noncompounding % (10 armor is a 10% reduction)

4. (4. Armor Degrading% - each attack reduces armor by 10% of its damage, also deals damage to hp when armors low (60 dmg attack, on 50 armor, reduces armor to 45, and deals 10 dmg, a 10 dmg attack, reduces 50 armor by 1, and deals no dmg)


The reason im leaning twards the first, is it allows for really high armor values, with weak units still dealing some damage (in battlecruisers case 20% damage) while relatively 'even' units will pretty much be using sc's current system (except 10 armor per point of reduction) and the same with strong hitting weak ( evasion kicks in there to aid in balance)

A few side notes, the battlecruiser will almost definently fire multiple weapons at multiple targets, at a time.

 

[Darkness-4ever]

So, you're actually working on this, or is it just information compilation for the alt tech tree?

 

[Bloody_Turds]

as of now, i have not done a single thing in the editor.... although id LIKE to start, atleast after i finish the concept pool (till i have enough good ideas)mainly for human/protoss, and get the mechanics/UI more fully planned out. So is it a project? yes. Is it one that will likely reach any playable phase? I have no idea. But i guess id like to start recruiting soon.. so if interested just post saying so.. the more support the greater the chances it actually becomes a game

Btw heres the revised UI, note that i havnt included formations and the like yet, this is strictly the single unit selection UI, also the button with a question mark on it.. would bring up the help files on the unit, along with an interesting bio(atleast according to my current 'plans')

EDIT: Revision #2 (and set up for wide screen)
Note, that i included SHIELD,ENERGY, and SHIELD REGENERATION, only to show where they would go on units with those things.., also the 'stats' on the scv arnt acurate at all, but simply thrown down numbers to best illustrate stuff (like the fact theres room for upto 9999 hp on a unit)

Give me crits on what you think, or if anything should be moved/added/removed on the UI and why.

Also newest idea, (further development on the units have levels concept)
It might be cool, if once a unit reached level 10, it became a 'hero' gaining a unique name (from a name pool), and possibly even a small, but specific Bio (under the ? button), once reaching this stage the unit will be revivable (your next trained unit of that type, will revive the hero) at the cost of 4x build time. It will also get enhanced stats, and possibly a new ability/enhanced older abilitys.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

UPDATED with human Units/Tech tree almost fully developed, now all thats left is protoss

 

[hugo802]

can u use the campaign units in vs AI like the spectre and the blue robot tiger and firebats

 

[The World Is Flat]

To... Be honest... I dont like what you've done here. Its horrid. Just my worthless oppinion.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

@To... Be honest... I dont like what you've done here. Its horrid. Just my worthless oppinion.

what i did here? i havnt done anything besides gathered ideas? you dont like the act of planning before you jump into stuff?

what dont you like about it? every last idea on the list is completely and utterly useless?, even outside the settings of a starcraft 2 game?
unless this is the case, its un-constructive without telling me what part(s) you dislike, and why..

@ worthless opinion:
Never said your opinion was worthless, we just seem to have alot of opposing viewpoints...

I dont think regen on humans hurts gameplay, you do
i dont think mechs are practical you do...
ect..

but the thing about persuading people, ya cant just say, its your way, you have to list reasons, if possible backed up by facts (that we both agree on)

saying: "Its the future its this way:" doesnt convince anything XD..

and maybe in 2000 years from now... when we have expanded beyond our solar system they do use armored mechs,



a good arguement for this is:

Argument(unless you want to read dont bother XD)

humans need to be raised for years(including large quantities of resources wasted on, greatly increasing there total cost compared to raw material that is harvested and built in about a years time.. and ready to use
and with robotics asteroids can be mined of metals automatically and quickly.. providing the raw materials needed..

Now i would bring up another point:
ok maybe some mechs would be used, but i still think its to much resources/work for the larger mechs that can still easily be destroyed...
to find a 10 foot mech, you would have to be atmost half a mile away, meaning its far less likely to attract a crowd than a 60 foot behemoth, plus the ammount of resources expended if they do find/destroy it is 1/20th what would be spent on the behemoth.. making smaller mechs far more practical, besides if ya think about it humans trumphed the dinos (i wouldnt go the cold blooded route if i were you, because many large mamals also became extinct during/after that erra)

now you might bring up the fact that the behemoth has armor so strong that chances are itl be able to take anything that sees it, and desides to come attacking...

now i come back with lots of zerg have 'acid' type attacks, which will widdle away at your armor, in a matter of an hours time (gametime), then the zerg would scavange their dead, back to the hive for assimilation, costing them very little

if you think about the cost of a zergling you got... feeding cost (probably entirely/mostly covered by its diet, and likely canabalistic tendencys(what they do with minerals/gas i dont know.., maybe vitamins that there not getting from food), and the innitial cells which are pretty much free?

I dont know what you would argue from this point.. but meh

@ periodic food system:
givin some thought (and ran a handful of test in wc3), 90% sure im going to stick with starcrafts origional system..

@ regen on humans; which part of it are you arguing? heres counterarguments to all 3 parts i could think of..
Lore/Believability
If regen on human types was to slow to affect balance ingame, why did humans in wc3 get it?, im sure advanced space men possibly who've undergone genetic advancedments, would be able to heal faster.., and i asume by building/unit construction times that time is somewhat accelerated, or at the very least warped for balance sake...

Set Appart from Zerg
If its to set the zerg appart, how much of an advantage is .08 HPS, compared to the ~1.5Hps regeneration that most zergs have. Sure humans regenerate, but Speedy Regeneration is about 10x better from a balance perspective.

Balance
What % of 'pro' games use large quantitys of marines? Has it not been said QUITE alot that MMM balls are overused... meaning there probably needs to be a little bit less incentive to use them... (dont go asking me how hp regen is incentive NOT to use them..., but rather concider just how little incentive .08 hitpoints per second really is... (to small to really matter much in balance..., 10 mins to gain 50 hp, how long do you think it would take 1 medivac to heal 20 marines to full hitpoints?)

 

[The World Is Flat]

Making immortals top tier is silly. they are weak enough as it is, you would have to seriously buff them.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

no idea why, but i cant see ANYTHING past page 8, the only way im even seeing your comment is through the last reply post @.@, ill put this up with teh high council?

 

[Dr. House]

Nice work? XD

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Ok now i can see the next page again.. lifes wierd.. eh.., anyways i kinda agree (not really sure on that part as i dont play toss, mostly terrain and human sofar)that the immortal would need a serious buff... , im just saying from the description, and its abilitys, it just 'feels' like it would be a higher tier unit, maybe with the colosus which i hear isnt getting much action.. although im not all up on the patches....

as i said any balance sofar said is INNITIAL, which are numbers pulled out of the top of my head to get a game where a unit is about where i think it should be..., I have no idea how much i would end up buffing/debuffing, right now im just trying to get everything where it fits

 

[The World Is Flat]

Terran in your build are far too TvT oriented, and their 'transports' are op.

Zerg are far underpowered, especially vs armor or mech.

I havent seen protoss, but i hope you will play with warping, shields, and their tech advantage.

Also, leveling is... Well it seems far overpowered for certain unit types.

I suggest that leveling conferres specific bonuses for certain unit types.

High level zerglings gain speed/hp

Roaches more armor/hp

Hydras longer range

Marines greater range and damage

thors or mech some kindof special ability, somthing like that


I like your hero idea aswell, but alot of it seems to chance based to me.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

ah thanks thats pretty constructive.. ill take a look at the figures and see if i can include some anti-mech for zerg

you think the transports are overpowered, even if it were to cost money to convert? both ways?, either way i was going more along the hercules line of transport (like in the campaign) that would cost 400-500 on its own and hold like 20+ people...

as for leveling units getting different bonus's, i think the bonus's will be fairly standard, (maybe 5 hp, 5% hp, and 5% damage per level?), with the experience needed/earned dependant on the unit killed...

that way if a zergling kills a tank it levels, maybe even 3 times, whereas a tank would have to kill 15~ lings for a single level

and any unit to reach level 10 may get an extra bonus, which would probably be unit specific


As far as Toss, im planning to maybe make energy and shields take from the same pool, on a few of the units

and id like to add some cool warp type skills (possibly something similar to wc3s phase shift)

@Hero concept: are you refering to the ability to revive units once they reach level 10, i kinda liked that idea as well because it adds a bit of diversity to the army, and lets you actually have 'elite squads', as well as adding good focus points for you to target (if i have a visual indicator telling what level a unit is, maybe tally marks floating overhead (might be to visually unappealing), although i think something more subtle like changing the tatoos, or model size by 5% might work well to

Update: well Zv Armored, is probably where the spitter kicks in, its good against infantry because of its splash attacks, but its good against armored aswell.. since each attack reduces a GROUPS armor by 1(which is probably a little high, might change it to .25 armor per attack or greatly reduce there attackrate and up damage, although they still sorta lack a suficient AA armor option, ya think allowing Corrupters attacks to bypass armor should do the trick (there already acid based, in my design)

@Zv Mech, although its true they dont have anything with a specific anti mech advantage, maybe i could replace Hydralisk Toxic Spines (deals DOT to bio) with some kinda anti-mech, (electrical spines?), although i kinda feel Lore wise mech should be the strongarm vs zerg, and bio the weak arm, although i think i probably over exagerated this (zerg have 3 primarily anti-ground bio weapons, and currently 0 anti-mech, and 1 anti-armored(ground only)

zergs anti-bio is rather strong looking back: Hlisk have PSN just for bio, Spitters have huge splash and low damage (best suited for low hp clusters (bio)), and even ultralisk's cleave, which im now starting to think should be replaced with some kinda mech-only bash/knockback or something...

@Zergs general underpoweredness
Point for point zerg always will seem unimpressive.. but its not ever point for point when you outnumber the enemy 3 to 1 or more, atleast i figure its gonna be this way...

So options:
1. reduce Ultralisk Cleave a bit, and give him an anti-mech skill (bash, Stomp(warstomp only stuns mech, slight dmg to all))
2. Give corrupter Armor piercing attacks, (or maybe reducing like spitter)
3. Give hlisk an anti-mech weapon (would cover ground and air), maybe electric based? or burrowing spines (continue to dmg mechs after they hit, for x seconds)
4. Reduce spitters bio effectiveness by decreasing his attack rate, and increasing his damage, (and maybe, an acid that could eat 5% of a units total health, every second for 3-5 seconds after attack)

@ terrain being to TvT orriented, not quite sure, are you refering to the quantity of anti-mech devices.. keep in mind alot of protoss are mech... and i tried to give them a nice little handful of TvZ weaponry aswell (firebats, ghost, tanks, and even battlecruiser (with 8 cannons!) are all especially great at taking on organic/weak enemys

 

[The World Is Flat]

You realize then that zerg will always loose to terran? they will simply go mech all the time.
Also, by armor, i mean the type, not a numeric stat.

Also, i had an algorithim somwhere for a stat growth system, where each attack and each hitpoint lost improved that specific area in a unit's stats, and then when they all reached a certain value level, the unit 'leveled up' improving that units unique stat. (for my map, we decided not to use this system, but...) for instance grunts level up bonus was hp and attack. in your system, say level 10 conferred some special ability, but it should also greatly imrpove hardieness, or you'll never get that veteran ling squad.

Medics atm are far to powerful aswell.

How much do you intend transports to cost initially and then for each lift/land/gather?

 

[Bloody_Turds]

well i was thinking 400 for the transports... and maybe if needed, 150 for the conversion, and free to convert back or something along those lines (as a transport itd hold 30~ ppl

@terran going mech all the time, as it already is maybe.. but that just means id probably balance the zergs overall strength to counteract mechs.. lol, although as i mentioned do you like any of the ideas listed or have any of your own to help them counter mech specifically?
or like any of those ideas?, mech is good, but it has 1 primary weakness.. its inability to heal without bringing scvs along, which usually die easy... making organic still pretty useful up front, aslong as they arnt using primarily anti-organic units..
for the most part lings> mech, with the exception of splashmech (tanks), and air in general is conciderably more expensive per statpoint than ground counterparts (a wraith is about a strong as a hydralisk in sc1, yet cost quite a bit more, for the maneuverability)

@ armor type?
how exactly are they to weak vs the armored 'type' just because they dont have anything that adds + dmg to armored, if ya think about it.. thats the whole point of armored.. not to take MORE damage

looking at terrain they dont have anything that specifically target 'armored' types, and i dont even think im including armored in the types, atleast as anything more than a visual.., the clases i was thinking were, organic, mechanical, structure. In the end high damage counters units with high armor.. because it gets reduced the least..., and is usually overkill for weak units... which means that weak/fast attacks counter weaks cause that prevents overkill, and can be a bit higher, since you have to factor in armor (2 attacks every second for 5 dmg, is quite a bit worse than 1 attack a sec for 10)

@ stat growth, im probably not gonna go through the fuss of giving stats based on what the unit particularly uses.. im sure ill be able to find a simple algorythm that works good enough (besides i want them to be able to figure about how much health a level 10 unit has without having to select and check it, a simple 10,5%,5% bonus means it has 50%+100 more health, and 50% more damage at level 10, fairly easy to aproximate in your head quickly

@Use of the campaign units, yes im sure you can pull the units directly from the campaign, if not i could atleast re-build them myself..., i didnt like the tiger thing lore wise in the campaign however.., and spectres and ghost are just about the same thing, and ghost being more known would be the name i used

 

[Bloody_Turds]

early toss tech tree

early toss tech tree

EDIT: Just wondering if anyone likes/dislikes the idea of zerg needing to have whatever tech building on the same creep patch as the hatchery to unlock the building of the unit? since im removing the queens spawn larvae likely for fertalize, which prolly will get autocast.. i figured atleast a bit more micro could be re-routed to creep development...


also lookin for opinions on the toss tech tree...
which of the 2 posted looks better? the primary differences:

Toss has an upgrade for the photon cannon, to more powerful version, with either splash or bouncing attacks, and probably electric..(req templar of archives
Toss also has 7 buildings required to get mothership instead of the 6 toss2 has
Toss2 has a 'field generator' that upgrades from a pylon (probably regains shields.. and maybe has some other effect..) with a req of cyber core

EDIT2: added toss2a, which is basically the tech tree with all the units and in a more complete form, note i may still go with toss 1's design, or atleast parts of it.... although i think the field generator would likely get more use than a level 2 tower.., and the toss i kinda feel have everything covered pretty well with cannons..., i might allow cannons to do more damage based on the number of pylons that overlap it.. which brings me to my next possible concept.

buildings gain either bonus shield regeneration, and/or ability to build themselfs faster, based on the pylons that overlap the area... opinions?

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Bump/Update:

gave ultralisk headbutt, instead of charge (making the skill from anti-building/pathmaker, to; anti-mech,large,structure)

- Headbutt: has a 25% chance to slam the ultralisk thick skull on a target dealing 150 bonus damage to the target, and 25 damage to itself. will only work on units denoted as mechanical, large, or structure, and only if the units current health is greater than 100.

also forgot to add guardian to this list . updated to include (it does have anti-mech aswell, but there still isnt anything low tier for it, but it should be fine..

 

[Bloody_Turds]

Bupdate - the sc2 forum in itself seems suprisingly dead..., out of curiosity, whats the primary forum used for sc2 mappers? or is it just quiet in general everywhere?

 

[GhostThruster]

whats the primary forum used for sc2 mappers?

Not here.


SC2Mapster.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

ah thanks i figured not here.. just didnt quite know where.. although i must admit i could have probably googled around a bit more

 

[Queen-Gambit]

*waves at Bloody*

Thank you for your reply on sc2mapster. I apologize for not clicking the link. I have fully read the information finally. We may be on different pages. I was browsing the 1st page and all the ideas are all merely unit stat changes. The post implies of new ideas and new game mechanics. Maybe the term, "fixed" or "improve" was what you want? I'll continue discussing anyway...

First things 1st, change the bloody name lol. It sounds like patch than an epic evolution. It sounds like your pretending the 1.5 patch will be that. It sounds like you don't know http://thesaurus.com. hehe

Heres an idea for a banner:

Creative with the essence of Starcraft
By rereading your post, it seems to me your willing to come up with lots of fresh NEW ideas. I believe that there are many unique, creative ideas that still need to be discovered that can fit into the essence of Starcraft gameplay. Don't just stick with mere STAT CHANGES. Here are descriptions I use for my Desert Strike map:

Terran - Descendents of a disastrous human colonization, the Terran are masters of survival. From infantry marines to heavily armed Battlecruisers, Terran rely on solid armor, plentiful firepower, and strength in numbers to hold the line.

Zerg - A race of parasitic insectoids, the Zerg is a ruthless killing species. 100% biological, the Zerg make no use of technology. Instead, their strength relies in overwhelming numbers, nightmarish mutation and aggression.

Protoss - Having highly advanced technology and potent psionic abilities, the Protoss one of the most powerful species in the galaxy. Protoss warriors are unsurpassed in their skills, complimented with their robotic war machines.

Use this as a muse for creative ideas

 

[Queen-Gambit]

Maybe give Terran mechanical units the Stim ability, not just marines. Think of a hellion attack rate high up but takes away 20hp from it or something. Maybe it also cost minerals and can only be used once?

Another approach to this is gaining new ideas by scrapping/removing current things. What new, creative ideas can you come up with if Zerg didn't have Corruptor, how about Protoss didn't have Archon. What new and exciting replacements can you think of? =)

Btw, the flow chart can be hard to read with boxes that are Red or Light green.

If this isn't the direction you want to head, i'll respect that. It seems like you just want to improve the current balance by merely changing few stats.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

@ it just being stat changes.. thats not really true.. cause most the stats ive given were pulled directly from sc2, its doubtful i could do a better job balancing than a trained team, with over 100k test games under their belt to fine tune everything , as the initial balance, some of the stats were changed in however because after changing the tree i think they need weaken/strengthened at there new spot.. but none of that is balance
i just listed every unit i do plan to include in the post and not just the ones i plan to edit , if u open the zerg section, ull notice spine/spore (similar to spine/spore crawlers, but more like attachments to another building. other 'new' zerg units include spitter, scourgling, and swarmer, and creeper (which is nolonger a scout, but will likely retain the same model) in addition to that most units have atleast 1 new upgrade that wasnt there before

@ the way i want thinks to head: keep throwing unit/building specific ideas, and any holes you see in the current trees (weaknesses you see shining through)

Also. please use [edit post] rather than posting a reply when you have the last post, its frowned apon to do otherwise...

@mech stimpack; this idea would probably offset the balance a bit to much in my opinion, i might add an equvalent (overdrive) to 1-2 of the units but to even most mech units its doubtful

@flowcharts there are a bit hard but after a min or 2 or a second look they usually get easier.. even blizz's tech tree charts arnt instantly understandable.
and there are a few things that i was kinda forced to give precedence (important structure has pull over builds units)

also for a bit more info if ya really need it:
buildings are squares.. addons are circles..
Directly-required structure: anything that is pretty much required for 9/10 strategies for that race.
Indirectly-required: structure required to build another structure, but isnt necessarily required (atleast 2-3 strategies that wont require this building)
units (diamonds) colors basically just say what building there built from, and there attached to their tech requirement
-looking back the queen and the spawning pool should be red, and the hive green (since late game units aren't exactly required in a good chunk of strategies) but eh its not an official tree and it helps alot better than nothing in understanding the current setup

@ sc1.5 it was intended to be 'somewhere between starcraft broodwar, and starcraft 2; not some later patch for sc2


although i think if i can get some more supporters i could probably start another 'random concepts' section (which i had a while ago, but was getting so few responses, i just decided to weed through it myself and dump all the ideas i didnt really think fit to well...

also toss units/building descrips are still in the works ill hopefully get that done this weekend

 

[Rispetto]

I actually like this idea.
It adds some realism to the game.
I liked the miss chance at first glance quite a bit, but when I think about it 15% is a lot man. And 30% for a moving unit? For units like siege tanks that would freaking ruin them.
Maybe something like a small damage mitigation on a miss with heavy weapons such as such tanks or ultralisks, instead of a complete 100% miss.
I do like the idea, though. Like a lot, really.
And you are right about the fact that some stuff takes up way too much time, like constantly spawning larvae on your hatchery/lair/hive. It's one of the reasons I dont like to play Zerg late game, because you need to like 4 hatch and be on top of your queens 24 goddamn 7 just to keep up with the unit production of other races.
If you decide to go through with this mod, give me a shout. I'm interested.

Edit: Maybe move this to project development?

-Risp

 

[Bloody_Turds]

@siege tanks did you read, artillery has a completely different system... splash prettymuch guarantees that itl deal the damage to everyone in the aoe

the primary units that have disadvantage from this system would be high dmg/slow attack units non-artillery, like ghost, but im sure ill find a way to counteract this

@moving to project development
well i still dont even know if im gonna start working on it.. all ive done with sc2s editor is a bit of work here and there.. mostly with terrain, and a small bit of code... so its not really a project right now , and dont wana get anyones hopes up

 

[Queen-Gambit]

@flowcharts - its like i can't physically see the words that are written inside. I tried zooming in and changing monitor settings. I kept staring at it and I don't c a difference =( this is what im seeing:

Instead of full color boxes, maybe just an outline of the box color? Like this:

Why didn't you comment on my banner!! it took me all day to make that it did. =(

Of course you will never compete with blizzard and their 100k testing. Sorry, i didn't mean it like that. All im saying is the name 1.5 doesn't seem appropriate to have for this deviation project.

Interested in creating 3 types of resources?

Aww ill post here more often, i promise i won't multi-reply lol

It seems hard to really see holes and stuff on this. Why don't we just simply start creating this map and test different stuffs for fun? Forget the UI at 1st, that stuff is confusing and I know some UI experts that can help out with that. We can start by switching around the command cards too.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

well im strictly wc3 thusfar, so anything i 'test' would probably be a wc3 version of the game... with wc3 tempmodels untill i ported to sc2.. unless you know someone who has experience in the editor.. willing to XD...

@flowcharts... did you try right clicking the image and open in new tab?
if so ill upload the origional .dia files for ya.. (ud need to dl freeware (Dia.exe) to view em)

@banner; its really nice , duno bout the text.. but eh
@name; its not an official project... and sc1.5 was just a name i gave it when i was making the post.. so people would have something to refrence the project... your welcome to list a bunch of better names and weel see what sticks

@competing with blizzard; i just might.. just not at the start.. nor for a long time... but if you look at dota in wc3... its in the same range as blizzards melee when it comes to games played.. so if the mod got really popular, and we had a nice selection of maps to play with it.. it possibly could...

@forget the UI; mostly that UI was an early attempt to incorperate all the info id like to make easilly available.. it was done in GIMP(freephotoshop) and was just to get a layout..

@Interested in creating 3 types of resources?
uh? you mean gas/minerals/ ??? and food... so technically itd be a 4th ...
i might be interested in a 3rd, although any more than that is probably making the game just a little to complicated

 

[Queen-Gambit]

lol, aww you have to get starcraft 2. I can do basics in the editor like changing the stats and changing the build sequence around and terraining (anyone can do terraining).

I am no melee player so i wouldn't be able to comment on the changes, only input some creative ideas.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

no i have it.. i just dont use the editor lol..
Update (toss ideas):

looking for a few interesting things to add to toss.. and here are a few of the ideas.. tell me which ones are liked.. and which are disliked

Recall Battery: a structure (probably t3) that automaticall recalls units to it, that reach less than 10% health (with less than about 10 shield). the device has a cooldown (maybe 3-5 seconds longer than cast time), and a cast time ranging from 1-3 seconds depending on the units size... and/or allow it to be used as a 1-way waygate, (you set the rallypoint, and then the units travel to the building, and materialize at the buildings rally.. (would be like nidus canal, except 1 way, and instantly pick the location without a build time)

I was thinking protoss could use some anti-air on the twilight council, allowing players to rely less heavily on cybernetics core builds only...
so heres the options:
Switch Sentry to Twilight council (and make it hit air)
remove sentry, add a new unit to the twilight council (that hits air, and is possibly organic, and probably ranged *as most anti-air is*), (templar, or some other name)
keep sentry, and add a new unit to twilight council (note; more units isnt necessarily better), probably primarily anti-air, maybe with minor anti-ground.


Shield Regen: im thinking of sticking closer to sc1's protoss regen, (which gives shield batteries more purpose), although i still think the shields could use some kinda bonus..
should shields even regen at all without the aid of something stated below?
should standing still (not fighting/moving) give a shield regen bonus?
should field generators (shield battery/pylon hybrid) give damage reduction to nearby (including buildings), more of a brilliance aura (just add 1-2 to all units in range's shields), and/or at the cost of energy charge each shield seperately (like sc1), should pylons (at their first tier) give any regen bonus's to units/buildings?
should 'day' grant a shield regeneration bonus (im sure toss have the tech for very efficient solar pannels)

my current plan is:
standard shield regen (slightly higher than sc1), and
Shield Generator, charging upto 20 shield per target per second, to upto 4 targets at a time

 

[Bloody_Turds]

bump

 

[Bloody_Turds]

bump,

and another Question: should protoss have 3 archons, 1 for 2 high templars, 1 for 2 dark templars, and 1 for 1 high templar and 1 dark templar. or simply 1 archon (probably just regular archon maybe with a spell but primarily a fighter

still undecided on moving the sentry over to the twilight council instead of cybernetics

 

[Bloody_Turds]

bump..., heres a bit of toss update..




probe - possibly able to go into 'fly mode' which drops all held resources but converts the probe into flying (meaning ground cant target it, and it can fly over stuff)
________________
Zealot (t1)
Descrip: melee fighter, similar to sc2's version

abilitys:

upgrades:
Organic Armor
Ground weaponry
shields
--
Charge: zelots already got it.. i figure itd be a good t2 boost for em
Advanced Shield: upgrades the shields increasing there regen, and maximum energy

________________

Dragoons (t1.5)
descrip: likely start out the same as goons from sc1, maybe a bit stronger with a bit higher cost. but with heavy upgrade potential vs large units

abilitys:

Upgrades:
mechanical armor
ground weaponry
shields
--
Immortal Shielding: reduce the damage of attackers dealing more than 20 damage by half
OR
HyperShield: Stops all damage for 1-1.5 seconds, at the cost of 40~ shield, autocast, when attacked, by any attack that deals more than 20 damage (in 1 hit), has a slight cooldown after use
________________
Sentry(t1.5)
descrip: support unit, possibly buffing nearby units

Abilitys:
Energize - increase the shield regen of nearby units by 1-2 energy a second
Crushing Field - Immobilizes a target, preventing it from attacking and dealing damage over time, channeling.. may let it target ground to block a location (aka force field)

Upgrades:
mechanical armor
ground weaponry
shields
________________
Dark Templar (t2)
descrip: offensive/stealth unit thats invisible.., possibly no shield(without upgrade)

abilitys:
permanent cloaked..

upgrades:
ground weaponry
organic armor
?shield: gives the dark templar basic shielding (60~ energy)
Void Warp - blink for the dark templar..

________________
High Templar (t2)
descrip: spellcaster...

abilitys:
halucination - makes a duplicate of an image, the smaller/weaker the unit the longer this image last, (large units like carriers only last 10-15 seconds, although smaller units like zelots can last several minutes...
archon warp - can turn into a archon, or twilight archon

upgrades
organic armor
psy storm - deals pure damage, to units in an aream damage bypasses armor
Psyonic Training - more energy, and a higher starting energy

________________

 

[Bloody_Turds]

bump

 

[Bloody_Turds]

bump