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acually, sc2 melee is boring and repetitive. but, i dont know if this is the anwnser.
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Tech Tree
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Lol I never expected that he would have the game changed. But anyway as I said, fun suggestions, it didn't irritate me in any way or anything. Afterall he's making a map.
By melee is meant the primary purpose of a strategy game - you play to make units, buildings attack and kill. It's not boring if you play vs various players and try to outplay them, you just don't think how many times you've done the same, you just do it. Kinda like saying soccer is boring because you watch some players kicking the ball every time, But not all will understand it say if you dont follow scenes, players etxc ^.^
By melee is meant the primary purpose of a strategy game - you play to make units, buildings attack and kill. It's not boring if you play vs various players and try to outplay them, you just don't think how many times you've done the same, you just do it. Kinda like saying soccer is boring because you watch some players kicking the ball every time, But not all will understand it say if you dont follow scenes, players etxc ^.^
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yea i was talking to you, and theterrain who seemed to have a loose grasp on what 'melee' actually is XD
@ the buggy, having a machine gun attack being to imba, because of the attack rate..., just because its a machine gun, doesnt mean its a high attack rate, i mean technically the marine emptys a clip each round, but you dont see it dealing 6-10 hits @ 1 dmg...
Concidering that the most likely alternative would require you to not only train the buggy, but the marine to go in it, im sure price probably wont be a problem..
although an attack every .8-1 seconds probably sounds about right.. depending...
It might be interesting, if every 2 seconds, it launched 5-10, 2-3 damage attacks, since that would make them far more specialized, and they would be practically usless against high armor units, but extreemly potent against anything with low armor, but i think workers recieve armor bonus.. so id probably stick with, but im not gonna do that.. XD
@ redscores
i didnt really see them as hostile, just miss-guided XD
@theworldisflat
glad to find someone who agrees with me XD...., but i duno if a question was really posed.., i do find it rather curious that the only thing being offered up is criticism... i could use ideas
I dont know how many random great ideas ive had, yet because there unrelated to any current project i was working on, get stored in a text file somewhere on my hardrive XD.
From my time on the internet ive realized it feels good releasing ideas to the people, hoping that they may find a good home..., and an even greater feeling when you see that very idea applied in someones work, its a real feeling of accomplishment, like you made a difference... ive got plenty of room for ideas, weather or not you know alot about the starcraft tech tree or not..
EDIT: oh and hi terran ^^, yea alot of people like certain sports, while others dont...
personally, i hate watching any sport, but if im playing its pretty fun...
@ the buggy, having a machine gun attack being to imba, because of the attack rate..., just because its a machine gun, doesnt mean its a high attack rate, i mean technically the marine emptys a clip each round, but you dont see it dealing 6-10 hits @ 1 dmg...
Concidering that the most likely alternative would require you to not only train the buggy, but the marine to go in it, im sure price probably wont be a problem..
although an attack every .8-1 seconds probably sounds about right.. depending...
It might be interesting, if every 2 seconds, it launched 5-10, 2-3 damage attacks, since that would make them far more specialized, and they would be practically usless against high armor units, but extreemly potent against anything with low armor, but i think workers recieve armor bonus.. so id probably stick with, but im not gonna do that.. XD
@ redscores
i didnt really see them as hostile, just miss-guided XD
@theworldisflat
glad to find someone who agrees with me XD...., but i duno if a question was really posed.., i do find it rather curious that the only thing being offered up is criticism... i could use ideas
I dont know how many random great ideas ive had, yet because there unrelated to any current project i was working on, get stored in a text file somewhere on my hardrive XD.From my time on the internet ive realized it feels good releasing ideas to the people, hoping that they may find a good home..., and an even greater feeling when you see that very idea applied in someones work, its a real feeling of accomplishment, like you made a difference... ive got plenty of room for ideas, weather or not you know alot about the starcraft tech tree or not..
EDIT: oh and hi terran ^^, yea alot of people like certain sports, while others dont...
personally, i hate watching any sport, but if im playing its pretty fun...
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I loled.
I do know the sc2 techtree, having recived 6 beta keys. (only played 2 times, but the techtree is on the internet)
Thank you for the compliment. if thats what it was.
Your posts are massive walls of information, lol.
putting a marine into the buggy imo is kinda silly, not to mention a rip of other games, and the bunker. and the marine acually does a few pulsating attacks. and they are relativly quick. but what i meant, is anytinng at all quick, would be imbalanced it if youlc fire on the move, becaue it could easily stay out of range, tail, or escape, while pounding the enemy repeatedly. but you would still have that problem with a railgun, but less so duto the fact that its a weaker dragoon equivilant, and it cant hit asmany units at once.
But w/e
I do know the sc2 techtree, having recived 6 beta keys. (only played 2 times, but the techtree is on the internet)
Thank you for the compliment. if thats what it was.
Your posts are massive walls of information, lol.
putting a marine into the buggy imo is kinda silly, not to mention a rip of other games, and the bunker. and the marine acually does a few pulsating attacks. and they are relativly quick. but what i meant, is anytinng at all quick, would be imbalanced it if youlc fire on the move, becaue it could easily stay out of range, tail, or escape, while pounding the enemy repeatedly. but you would still have that problem with a railgun, but less so duto the fact that its a weaker dragoon equivilant, and it cant hit asmany units at once.
But w/e
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yea, but remember your paying for a marine, and a buggy (along with the 2 food), for a marines damage...
Im sure other games have had units load into vehicles.. but i have a strange feeling that they ripped it from something else called "Real Life"
the things to concider, knowing that other games have used it (ive heard command and concor had it?), is was it a asset to that game, why. or why not... that way it can be determined if its a good idea here..
I know in warcraft 3, hypogryph riders were kind of a pain, but mostly because your actually sacraficing a 50 dmg anti air, and a 20 damage archer, for a 20 damage air, that hits air and ground...
Often i would fly in with my hippogryphs, just to dismount right before the battle, allowing for the archers to simultaniously take on the ground, while the hypogryphs now took on the air, and guess what, im now dealing 70 damage, in the time it takes to deal 20..., the exceptions to the above were when the enemy had a large ground force, and the only thing i had were the archers, in which case i stayed mounted for harrassment.., that and the air building was kinda out of the way... and not needed for alot of strats..
since both the barracks, and factory, are key nodules in the creation of hellions, and marines, that shouldnt be much of a problem...
Btw do you think that 'hellions' with a mounted marine, should use infantry upgrades, or vehicle upgrades? (vehicle for the armor, and probably infantry for the weapons...)
Yea my post are kinda walls of text.. i guess i just like to talk alot XD, when i have something to say, its alot, otherwise i wont post
Im sure other games have had units load into vehicles.. but i have a strange feeling that they ripped it from something else called "Real Life"
the things to concider, knowing that other games have used it (ive heard command and concor had it?), is was it a asset to that game, why. or why not... that way it can be determined if its a good idea here..
I know in warcraft 3, hypogryph riders were kind of a pain, but mostly because your actually sacraficing a 50 dmg anti air, and a 20 damage archer, for a 20 damage air, that hits air and ground...
Often i would fly in with my hippogryphs, just to dismount right before the battle, allowing for the archers to simultaniously take on the ground, while the hypogryphs now took on the air, and guess what, im now dealing 70 damage, in the time it takes to deal 20..., the exceptions to the above were when the enemy had a large ground force, and the only thing i had were the archers, in which case i stayed mounted for harrassment.., that and the air building was kinda out of the way... and not needed for alot of strats..
since both the barracks, and factory, are key nodules in the creation of hellions, and marines, that shouldnt be much of a problem...
Btw do you think that 'hellions' with a mounted marine, should use infantry upgrades, or vehicle upgrades? (vehicle for the armor, and probably infantry for the weapons...)
Yea my post are kinda walls of text.. i guess i just like to talk alot XD, when i have something to say, its alot, otherwise i wont post
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Hellion should not be the name. and imo it should be ditched all together. Uses vehicle armor and the mouned units damage.
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Multistims is bad, imo, because in some situations stims would become incredibly strong while in others they would just cripple your combat force.
Also, giving a hellion-type unit the ability to shoot while moving would be epic rigged, winglings can only barely catch them as is.
It allows zerg to slowly build up a large pool of larva which can be suddenly turned into a large number of combat units very quickly. The zerg don't have to just spam units over a long duration, helping them adapt to new opponents very quickly.
I just hate the idea of a giant chainsaw wielding mech of doom, personally. The Thor is kinda silly too, but it makes more sense (terran have emphasis on ranged, vehicles are generally siege/heavy support)
Also, giving a hellion-type unit the ability to shoot while moving would be epic rigged, winglings can only barely catch them as is.
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My point to make it more like the dragoon, slow firing, but powerful.
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personally a hammer type mech would make more sense, as the time it would take for a chainsaw to cut through stuff, is rather out of preportion to the damage it would actually be doing...
@ new name for hellions.. ofc, if i switch the tech around.. however its easier to refrence them as hellions XD, than this new vehicle, that holds a marine/firebat/ghost
it is pretty nice to be able to build up, and switch on a dime, and summon a massive force... however, having more than 3 larva, completely undermines the old larvae system, i figure with an upgrade allowing 4, and 5 larva at a time, you could still amass a nice army, fairly quickly, just not instantiniously, like it currently is.., and would instead need to mass an extra hatchery or 2..., because with 5 larvae mass hatcherys is alot more practical, (lairs and hives may even get more, like 6 for lair after upgrades, and 7 for hive after upgrades, if i included them both..
another option for queen, would be keep the spawn larva ability, but give it a 2-3 second cast time, and allow recast, as soon as its done, yet make the spawn larvae skill cost 50 mana instead of the current 25, making it more of a storehouse, while simultaniously allowing for the spawn overtime mechanic the hatcherys already preform, to actually be used..
@ new name for hellions.. ofc, if i switch the tech around.. however its easier to refrence them as hellions XD, than this new vehicle, that holds a marine/firebat/ghost
it is pretty nice to be able to build up, and switch on a dime, and summon a massive force... however, having more than 3 larva, completely undermines the old larvae system, i figure with an upgrade allowing 4, and 5 larva at a time, you could still amass a nice army, fairly quickly, just not instantiniously, like it currently is.., and would instead need to mass an extra hatchery or 2..., because with 5 larvae mass hatcherys is alot more practical, (lairs and hives may even get more, like 6 for lair after upgrades, and 7 for hive after upgrades, if i included them both..
another option for queen, would be keep the spawn larva ability, but give it a 2-3 second cast time, and allow recast, as soon as its done, yet make the spawn larvae skill cost 50 mana instead of the current 25, making it more of a storehouse, while simultaniously allowing for the spawn overtime mechanic the hatcherys already preform, to actually be used..
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the idea of a mech wielding a large melee weapon for seige is preposerous.
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just as a wreckingball outfitted for war is also preposterous? the mech would essentially be the same thing, but a little more versitile, and quite a bit smaller..
when you get down to it, the idea of a mech is preposterious..
i mean a buttload of materials wasted on a 'vehicle' that in reality, couldnt be that well armored, while retaining functionality and agility with its joints..
asuming mechs were used, odds are that a mech the size of a person, can hold just as big of gun, as your outfitting on the big one with..., plus it would be unmanned...
the only 3 things a mech really brings to the table is agility, and versitility, as a mech can likely climb obstacles, a tank or other type couldnt.., and i guess shock factor, just having a giant mech running at you, would scare half the enemy troops (asuming there human)
what it lacks is, speed, defensive capabilitys, a cheap price per unit... all of which are more important in 80% of situations (guess what, the other 20, aircraft can cover XD)
all that aside, i think a mech wielding a hammer would be pretty cool, and probably one of the most cost effective things you can really do with a mech, that you cant exactly do with a vehicle..., i mean you can mount a huge gun on wheels pretty easily..., and for 10,000 times less..
where as the counterpart to a hammer mech, would be a crane, which is compleetly imobile during siege,
although honestly the most effective sollution is probably rockets..., it doesnt play to well into the damage absorbsion role, im primarily looking to fill..
Give me a better idea, for a melee type unit, and i just might use it
when you get down to it, the idea of a mech is preposterious..
i mean a buttload of materials wasted on a 'vehicle' that in reality, couldnt be that well armored, while retaining functionality and agility with its joints..
asuming mechs were used, odds are that a mech the size of a person, can hold just as big of gun, as your outfitting on the big one with..., plus it would be unmanned...
the only 3 things a mech really brings to the table is agility, and versitility, as a mech can likely climb obstacles, a tank or other type couldnt.., and i guess shock factor, just having a giant mech running at you, would scare half the enemy troops (asuming there human)
what it lacks is, speed, defensive capabilitys, a cheap price per unit... all of which are more important in 80% of situations (guess what, the other 20, aircraft can cover XD)
all that aside, i think a mech wielding a hammer would be pretty cool, and probably one of the most cost effective things you can really do with a mech, that you cant exactly do with a vehicle..., i mean you can mount a huge gun on wheels pretty easily..., and for 10,000 times less..
where as the counterpart to a hammer mech, would be a crane, which is compleetly imobile during siege,
although honestly the most effective sollution is probably rockets..., it doesnt play to well into the damage absorbsion role, im primarily looking to fill..
Give me a better idea, for a melee type unit, and i just might use it
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uses for a mech:
1. durability
2. survivability
3. mobility
4. human like setup for easy piloting
5. shocfactor
6. no loss of human life (if remote controlled)
7. the ability to outmach a human in everyway, size, integrity, strength, the ability to interate weapons and extrasensory equipment into arifical anatomy. what is a CMC suit but not essentailly a mech that puts the control shmeme right inside itself. -.-
7. awesomesauce
If you've ever seen the odin of anachian bedlams models... maybe somthing like that. the siege weapon is a chain mounted fist. cooler. more practical than a hammer. (could walk around??? = AWESOME) if you go with a seige mech.
Chain fist, large gun. bi our quadrapedial. = OWN.
1. durability
2. survivability
3. mobility
4. human like setup for easy piloting
5. shocfactor
6. no loss of human life (if remote controlled)
7. the ability to outmach a human in everyway, size, integrity, strength, the ability to interate weapons and extrasensory equipment into arifical anatomy. what is a CMC suit but not essentailly a mech that puts the control shmeme right inside itself. -.-
7. awesomesauce
If you've ever seen the odin of anachian bedlams models... maybe somthing like that. the siege weapon is a chain mounted fist. cooler. more practical than a hammer. (could walk around??? = AWESOME) if you go with a seige mech.
Chain fist, large gun. bi our quadrapedial. = OWN.
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according to cartoons, mechs have a high survivability... but in real life practice, i doubt it would be the same, concidering there are so many moving parts, that the mech as a whole is reliant on..., if one pump in its leg gets shot, it would malfunction, and quite possibly topple over...
mobility it does have..., but it fails the durability test, as any one of many small parts could break.., nearly rendering it usless...
as for survivability, a mech has no particular strong spot for a person, asuming its a manned mech, which most science fiction mechs, of large stature are...
you say human like for easy piloting, but honestly i doubt that even in the future, ( i may be wrong), would you stand in a green room controling the mech with your kenetic abilitys... and even if you were, steps you could take, would trip the mech, meaning that 95% chance, it would just walk itself... and its doubt full a giant robot is a smooth ride, so if it were manned, a 'virtual ball' inside it would be doubtful...
ability to out match a human...
well depends, on if that human is mcguiver, or your in close quarters, in which case the human would climb onto you, and not much you can do, most mechs arnt designed to scratch their back..., and if hees knowledgeable pull the right wires are poof, but in a open ground war, gun vs gun, yes the mech would win..., but honestly, against something even like a tank, which is still probably 100 times cheaper than an armored mech, would probably put up a good fight, and it would depend whos missles hit who first, and where, asuming they had armor strong enough to withstand missle strikes, the tank would most likely have it, because of its tortoise shell design... XD'
so i stand by my origional word... about what it actually has..
ah a chain fist....., well thats kinda interesting, doubtful it could do more damage than a hammer though, as the amount of leverage a mech would be able to swing that hammer pretty fast, i was thinking more of a 2 handed maul than a hammer ofcourse, a fist on a chain could be swung like a wrecking ball i guess... but you wouldnt want that hand operational (able to grab stuff) as it would most likely be pure iron, or some other metal with strength and weight...
although we could argue that its just a game, and everyone has accepted the image of the badass mech that can take just about anything, and keep on going with little/no mechanical failure XD
im still thinking a 2 handed weapon, and perhaps a fighting style similar to the paladin of warcraft 3 (except armored ofc), big overhanded swings, with all of the mechs body weight into it, would really do some damage to a building...
the practicality of a maul, is there a fairly common weapon to find, when your that big..
your weapon break? nbd rip a light post outa the ground XD, and beat ppl with the cement side!, ofc in practice the mech would have other weaponry.., and probably fufill almost every role needed... (but we need to keep it at its primary role, so mech with hammer probably seems best.. the best part is it would keep its name... Thor.. the blacksmith to the gods..., often depicted wielding a hammer (not a 2 handed war-hammer, but a hammer none-theless
mobility it does have..., but it fails the durability test, as any one of many small parts could break.., nearly rendering it usless...
as for survivability, a mech has no particular strong spot for a person, asuming its a manned mech, which most science fiction mechs, of large stature are...
you say human like for easy piloting, but honestly i doubt that even in the future, ( i may be wrong), would you stand in a green room controling the mech with your kenetic abilitys... and even if you were, steps you could take, would trip the mech, meaning that 95% chance, it would just walk itself... and its doubt full a giant robot is a smooth ride, so if it were manned, a 'virtual ball' inside it would be doubtful...
ability to out match a human...
well depends, on if that human is mcguiver, or your in close quarters, in which case the human would climb onto you, and not much you can do, most mechs arnt designed to scratch their back..., and if hees knowledgeable pull the right wires are poof, but in a open ground war, gun vs gun, yes the mech would win..., but honestly, against something even like a tank, which is still probably 100 times cheaper than an armored mech, would probably put up a good fight, and it would depend whos missles hit who first, and where, asuming they had armor strong enough to withstand missle strikes, the tank would most likely have it, because of its tortoise shell design... XD'
so i stand by my origional word... about what it actually has..
ah a chain fist....., well thats kinda interesting, doubtful it could do more damage than a hammer though, as the amount of leverage a mech would be able to swing that hammer pretty fast, i was thinking more of a 2 handed maul than a hammer ofcourse
, a fist on a chain could be swung like a wrecking ball i guess... but you wouldnt want that hand operational (able to grab stuff) as it would most likely be pure iron, or some other metal with strength and weight...although we could argue that its just a game, and everyone has accepted the image of the badass mech that can take just about anything, and keep on going with little/no mechanical failure XD
im still thinking a 2 handed weapon, and perhaps a fighting style similar to the paladin of warcraft 3 (except armored ofc), big overhanded swings, with all of the mechs body weight into it, would really do some damage to a building...
the practicality of a maul, is there a fairly common weapon to find, when your that big..
your weapon break? nbd rip a light post outa the ground XD, and beat ppl with the cement side!, ofc in practice the mech would have other weaponry.., and probably fufill almost every role needed... (but we need to keep it at its primary role, so mech with hammer probably seems best.. the best part is it would keep its name... Thor.. the blacksmith to the gods..., often depicted wielding a hammer (not a 2 handed war-hammer, but a hammer none-theless
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Its not the mech part that bothers me, its the melee part. Terran are through and through a ranged race, every unit they have is ranged. I just don't like the melee-combat mech personally.
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Remeber, this is several 100 years in the future dude... its taken us ony 20 years to make incredible advancments...
Ever heard of backups systems?
Kinetic abilitys? try AR infared room.
Tripping? ever heard of AI assistance?
Concerning mech - vs. tank. mech is more manuverable... = win.
Again back up systems. heavy armor. ever heard of electrified armor to stop crawlers? and marines on a thor?
What about the crawling hand? ^^
NO MECHS WITH HEALD WEAPONS WRONG BAD CHEESY. GOOGLE BATTLETECH.. FAFNIR BATTLEMECH.
Mayhe use his specail fist and have a mountain giant like abiltiy to pull things up?
Remeber this is sci-fi but more realistic...
Ever heard of backups systems?
Kinetic abilitys? try AR infared room.
Tripping? ever heard of AI assistance?
Concerning mech - vs. tank. mech is more manuverable... = win.
Again back up systems. heavy armor. ever heard of electrified armor to stop crawlers? and marines on a thor?
What about the crawling hand? ^^
NO MECHS WITH HEALD WEAPONS WRONG BAD CHEESY. GOOGLE BATTLETECH.. FAFNIR BATTLEMECH.
Mayhe use his specail fist and have a mountain giant like abiltiy to pull things up?
Remeber this is sci-fi but more realistic...
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XD...., well you asume a 20,000 pound mech, can maneuver an advanced missle... unless that bitch can slow time, aint gonna happen..
now it may be equipped with the right stuff to scramble the missle, or force detonate it, or even shoot it outa the sky with a laser.. but its not gonna fkin dodge that bitch...
there are backup systems, but backups fail.. one good shot to the leg, and chances are, any backup systems you have arnt working to well... tell me, what is the 'backup' system to a bent knee hinge? or a missing foot.., if/when this thing steps on a landmine... i mean a jeep needs a spare tire, but i doubt that a spare mech foot is laying around.
Ai asistance can take care of it your correct, but why cant AI take care of all the walking in general, and i would asume in 500 years AI could be programmed to better handle the mech than almost any human. plus without the signal, and response delays...
yes it is more scifi... but the hand attached to a chain would give the dilusion that its a ranged unit, who launches said hand, and maybe grabs you and pulls back..., this is for building destruction XD..
even if were not gettin anywhere this is kinda fun arguing about ^^
now it may be equipped with the right stuff to scramble the missle, or force detonate it, or even shoot it outa the sky with a laser.. but its not gonna fkin dodge that bitch...
there are backup systems, but backups fail.. one good shot to the leg, and chances are, any backup systems you have arnt working to well... tell me, what is the 'backup' system to a bent knee hinge? or a missing foot.., if/when this thing steps on a landmine... i mean a jeep needs a spare tire, but i doubt that a spare mech foot is laying around.
Ai asistance can take care of it your correct, but why cant AI take care of all the walking in general, and i would asume in 500 years AI could be programmed to better handle the mech than almost any human. plus without the signal, and response delays...
yes it is more scifi... but the hand attached to a chain would give the dilusion that its a ranged unit, who launches said hand, and maybe grabs you and pulls back..., this is for building destruction XD..
even if were not gettin anywhere this is kinda fun arguing about ^^
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LOL yeah hehehehehehe.
AI takeover the pilot, the ability to walk on stumps, jamming systems.
Jeep gets hit by a landmine = jeep dead. mech = boom.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Firefly
30 tons 90kmh.
chainfist is a good idea.
AI takeover the pilot, the ability to walk on stumps, jamming systems.
Jeep gets hit by a landmine = jeep dead. mech = boom.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Firefly
30 tons 90kmh.
chainfist is a good idea.
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Replacement jeep/marine alot cheaper than a replacement mech foot , no mech on foot, could run 90kmph unless it were freaking huge....., or maybe that mech you linked to.. since it has chicken feet XD
i just dont see chainfist making any practical sense.. (yes i have seen a couple shows with chainfist mechs.. and even played a couple games.., its definenty a good weapon for maneuverability, but i think a hammer, with power is probably the best thing for building destruction, and it could maybe swing low, killing a line of zerglings.. it would be interesting, to have a min range on its swing, so any zerglings that are close to it wont get hit, but any, in row 2 get decimated XD, it would deal an cressent moon shaped aoe, that is a bit past the first row of attacking units, asuming there melee attackers, and there small...
, but that would probably make it to good at to many things..
eh im goin to sleep, nice chattin carry our convo on tomorrow maybe, oh and its also about which model becomes available first... a mech with a hammer, or a mech with a chainhand XD, that or if i can mod the thors anims, enough to look nice with a hammer type anims)
, no mech on foot, could run 90kmph unless it were freaking huge....., or maybe that mech you linked to.. since it has chicken feet XDi just dont see chainfist making any practical sense.. (yes i have seen a couple shows with chainfist mechs.. and even played a couple games.., its definenty a good weapon for maneuverability, but i think a hammer, with power is probably the best thing for building destruction, and it could maybe swing low, killing a line of zerglings.. it would be interesting, to have a min range on its swing, so any zerglings that are close to it wont get hit, but any, in row 2 get decimated XD, it would deal an cressent moon shaped aoe, that is a bit past the first row of attacking units, asuming there melee attackers, and there small...
, but that would probably make it to good at to many things..
eh im goin to sleep, nice chattin carry our convo on tomorrow maybe
, oh and its also about which model becomes available first... a mech with a hammer, or a mech with a chainhand XD, that or if i can mod the thors anims, enough to look nice with a hammer type anims)
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yea that mechs weak point is most definently its legs.., the only backup i could see is the ability for the mech to hop on one leg XD, if one is blown off
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acually that mechs leg is about 30ft tall and covered in 15 tons of neosteel armor. so no little tank or rocket will take it out copletelly. also, gyro systems and AI lockdown od the leg will lock the leg and use it as a crutch. its no worse than the exsisting thor. its a about 5 times as large. if the thor has a problem, no mechs, if it doesent, lotsamechs. i mean a human leg is just as weak in comparison. if you scaled.
but its ur mod. so its up to you to take advice...
but its ur mod. so its up to you to take advice...
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well theres always bigger missles.. XD.. and the bigger it is, the harder it falls...
asuming the right tech is available, in war, smaller is almost always better, except maybe in the case of explosives.. XD, well still really.. nuclear bomb XD... compared to a tnt bomb... (mostly because of cost to build large weaponry)
but yea in comparison to a human, it could definently take a bigger beating..., but if you were to calculate the wages for hireing a large infantry, and equiping them with basic armor, and machine guns.. its still far cheaper, and covers almost any role that the mech could cover, and if speed is an issue, give them pop-out, machine propelled roller blades XD, that can be used for speed travel..., the other obsticle a mech can do, but marines cant would be a big ass gun.., but thats where jeeps come in XD..
the only practical large terrain weaponry, is the battlecruiser, why? because its an intergalactic flag ship, capable of years in space, without need for docking.., something i doubt single manned wraiths and other ships can do..
this ship is also large enough to basically contain an entire city onboard, for the thousands of onboard workers..
similar to a modern aircraft carrier, except even more self reliant....
asuming the right tech is available, in war, smaller is almost always better, except maybe in the case of explosives.. XD, well still really.. nuclear bomb XD... compared to a tnt bomb... (mostly because of cost to build large weaponry)
but yea in comparison to a human, it could definently take a bigger beating..., but if you were to calculate the wages for hireing a large infantry, and equiping them with basic armor, and machine guns.. its still far cheaper, and covers almost any role that the mech could cover, and if speed is an issue, give them pop-out, machine propelled roller blades XD, that can be used for speed travel..., the other obsticle a mech can do, but marines cant would be a big ass gun.., but thats where jeeps come in XD..
the only practical large terrain weaponry, is the battlecruiser, why? because its an intergalactic flag ship, capable of years in space, without need for docking.., something i doubt single manned wraiths and other ships can do..
this ship is also large enough to basically contain an entire city onboard, for the thousands of onboard workers..
similar to a modern aircraft carrier, except even more self reliant....
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lol dude, what is a mech but a cmc suit scaled but made more efficient beccause it doesent have to fit around a human? dude a missile goes off, ad your enven 100 feet away, you'll sill dye from trauma and the shockwave. a mech? IGNORED.
rollerblades = -.-
humans being better and cheaper? kinda, but not better for the buck, 1 mech is worth the cost of all the marines.
jeep = owned by infantry. = sucks ass
battlecruiser = already there. -.-
http://www.solaris7.com/images/TRO/BattleMechs/TRO3058/Sunder 3058.jpg = stepping on tank would own. its 90 tons. its guns own a crucio siege tank.
http://cselvis.co.uk/images/Untitled-10_copy.JPG
http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/intshots/orionelescoventry.jpg =own
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/my_scratch/Picture23.jpg this is a 20 ton mech. that battle armor next to it is about 10-11 feet tall... bigger than a cmc. its skinny legs are hard to hit, it can travel at 110 kmh. waaaay faster than infantry or a tank, especialy over runied rough terrain. its legs would be hard to hit. and its one of the smalleds mechs.
just saying mechs are alot more efficent in the future.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/d/d9/Golem.PNG even this thing us better than a cmc. also, its not like neosteel bows to a rocket. you still see a tank fighting after it gets hit. and a mech is 2 times as large and tough, plus it can retreat ad take cover, and pass ruined warfare ground 10x as fast.
jsut saying its not a bad idea, and i tink a massive hellboy style fist on one arm that firs like a missile and can return is a sick idea. blus it coulld be used like a mountain giant.
http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/58_Pen_Hatchetman_FoxTeeth01.jpg hatchetman. give it a gun one one side, and an oversized fist arm in the other. = own.
rollerblades = -.-
humans being better and cheaper? kinda, but not better for the buck, 1 mech is worth the cost of all the marines.
jeep = owned by infantry. = sucks ass
battlecruiser = already there. -.-
http://www.solaris7.com/images/TRO/BattleMechs/TRO3058/Sunder 3058.jpg = stepping on tank would own. its 90 tons. its guns own a crucio siege tank.
http://cselvis.co.uk/images/Untitled-10_copy.JPG
http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/intshots/orionelescoventry.jpg =own
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/my_scratch/Picture23.jpg this is a 20 ton mech. that battle armor next to it is about 10-11 feet tall... bigger than a cmc. its skinny legs are hard to hit, it can travel at 110 kmh. waaaay faster than infantry or a tank, especialy over runied rough terrain. its legs would be hard to hit. and its one of the smalleds mechs.
just saying mechs are alot more efficent in the future.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/d/d9/Golem.PNG even this thing us better than a cmc. also, its not like neosteel bows to a rocket. you still see a tank fighting after it gets hit. and a mech is 2 times as large and tough, plus it can retreat ad take cover, and pass ruined warfare ground 10x as fast.
jsut saying its not a bad idea, and i tink a massive hellboy style fist on one arm that firs like a missile and can return is a sick idea. blus it coulld be used like a mountain giant.
http://www.camospecs.com/images/schemes/58_Pen_Hatchetman_FoxTeeth01.jpg hatchetman. give it a gun one one side, and an oversized fist arm in the other. = own.
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lol.. just cause 1 mech 'could' take all the marines, doesnt make it better..., 1 ghost with nuke could take out a mech... XD, oh and a mech takes shockwave dmg aswell, its just less likely to be knocked over, or suffer radiation...
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1 a nuke pwns everything. thats no excuse. plus a mech could carry a tactical nuke. (theres an idea ! xD give it a tactical nuke with a long casing time. and make it long and expensive to replace or not.)
2. shockwaves, or blast trauma affects humans because of the rattling done to the brain and cell structure. a machine might have a we wires losed. but again a mech would have 10 backups all across the mech.
2. shockwaves, or blast trauma affects humans because of the rattling done to the brain and cell structure. a machine might have a we wires losed. but again a mech would have 10 backups all across the mech.
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1, ive seen chuck norris take down armored mechs before...
2, these are future humans, designed with backup brains, and/or shock absorbant skulls...
and no a nuke cant pwn everything, theres far to many humans for a nuke to take all of them, because unlike mechs, they can split up XD, unless were talking about actual , high yield nukes, and not just minor tactical nukes that are used in sc2.. XD in which case the planets probably gonna just split in 2, because a future nukes gotta be stronger
2, these are future humans, designed with backup brains, and/or shock absorbant skulls...
and no a nuke cant pwn everything, theres far to many humans for a nuke to take all of them, because unlike mechs, they can split up XD, unless were talking about actual , high yield nukes, and not just minor tactical nukes that are used in sc2.. XD in which case the planets probably gonna just split in 2, because a future nukes gotta be stronger
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acually, they dont, only about 75% of the surface of korhal was destroyed from 1000 apocalypse class missiles. and in sc2, humans are no better, only ghosts. sorry. and yes a real nuke pwns everything... a mech would be able to escape faster than a human too. sorry to dissapoint you, but chuck norris can only do that shit to paper-origami or CGI robots. sorry. he would be ownt. by anyone. anyway hes a movie dude, were talking semi-realistic shit here.
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lawl, semi-realestically, a missle called an 'apocolypse missle' should be able to rid an entire planet of life.., unless this planet was larger than physically possible..?, or had little/no atmosphere, for the shockwaves to travel through..
idk what game thats from though.. so i cant tell you...'
ghost are humans.., its just a prime example of something that woulre require far less resources, and be far more devistating...., chances are one of those mechs, have a nuclear core, similar to a small yield nuke..., so you might aswell make a nuke.... XD, and save the 50 tons of steel, or whatever they use to make dem buggers.....
EDIT: nuff about the particular topic (practically of a mech), XD i need to get back to work, with the actual concepts...
idk what game thats from though.. so i cant tell you...'
ghost are humans.., its just a prime example of something that woulre require far less resources, and be far more devistating...., chances are one of those mechs, have a nuclear core, similar to a small yield nuke..., so you might aswell make a nuke.... XD, and save the 50 tons of steel, or whatever they use to make dem buggers.....
EDIT: nuff about the particular topic (practically of a mech), XD i need to get back to work, with the actual concepts...
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LOL this is a an ontopic discussion.
and btw there is nothing rediculous about the apocalypse missile not destroying a planet in one hit. infact, it would be the most absurd thing it can think of.
Aslo, i dont get what yous saying. a mech uses chemical myomer joints and a Controlled Fusion powercore. when a BT mech dies it goes 'critical- exploding on if the reactor is hit. and thats impossible from a canister rifle. a mech would pwn a ghost. a ghost is a spotter for a nuke, aside from that, he has little to do with it.
a ghost is an anti infantry. a mech would own it.
i think i won.
SO MAKE THE MECH. (i mean 'Cmn. TERRATRON ANYONE?)
MAKE. THE. MECH.
(the whole point is a melee weapon.)
and btw there is nothing rediculous about the apocalypse missile not destroying a planet in one hit. infact, it would be the most absurd thing it can think of.
Aslo, i dont get what yous saying. a mech uses chemical myomer joints and a Controlled Fusion powercore. when a BT mech dies it goes 'critical- exploding on if the reactor is hit. and thats impossible from a canister rifle. a mech would pwn a ghost. a ghost is a spotter for a nuke, aside from that, he has little to do with it.
a ghost is an anti infantry. a mech would own it.
i think i won.
SO MAKE THE MECH. (i mean 'Cmn. TERRATRON ANYONE?)
MAKE. THE. MECH.
(the whole point is a melee weapon.)
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i plan on adding mech, only because it can fufill the melee quite nicely..
BUT, why would a missle be called an 'apocolypse' missle, unless it brought on the apocolypse... aka destroying 90% of life on the plannet, and horribly mutating 9% of the survivors, leaving that 1% to fend for themselfs against zombies!
And, the ghost may be nothing more than a spotter.. but the fact that the nuke, which is still by far cheaper than building a mech, is usually more devistating..., and your saying the mech goes super nova if, its core is damaged.. thats a bad thing, because that means the mech cant really have any support units, or fear blowing up its own army.. XD, now it is possible to make it fairly safe with little chance of explo, unless self destruct is specifically chosen by the mechs controller..., thats quite another story...
and if you wana go the 'ghost is just a spotter' route, i supose the mech is self reliant, and capabe of creating other equivalent mechs? XD, and preforming any repair jobs on itself that need be.., humans heal, mechs dont...., mechs take large quantities of precious metals, humans take food.... which you can usually leave them on their own to maintain..., humans build mechs... do mechs build humans? XD nope... Humans can come up with unexpected battle strategies, mechs go by the book, and because of that can be outsmarted (unless theres a human controler), so no a mech couldnt defeat all humans, as there are humans on the back end, keeping that mech upkept..
but you could also say that a cliff is more powerfull than an army of 10,000 humans, because 10,000 humans running off a cliff would die.. XD..
im honestly suprised more traps werent included in sc2, and kinda in sc1, atleast they had landmines.., although zerg kinda got banelinngs now for traps... i mean humans already use their food as walls, why not 1up that and make actual spike barricades..., or walls, that can prettymuch absorbe any hits that were focused without high arc (not saying i will, but i might make a new building thats better at its job than supply depots, prolly not though)
although it is kinda funny how marines can shoot through their food supply, and take out units on the other side.. XD, maybe require you to lower them, just to fire, although that kinda defeats the barricade mechanic.. XD
BUT, why would a missle be called an 'apocolypse' missle, unless it brought on the apocolypse... aka destroying 90% of life on the plannet, and horribly mutating 9% of the survivors, leaving that 1% to fend for themselfs against zombies!
And, the ghost may be nothing more than a spotter.. but the fact that the nuke, which is still by far cheaper than building a mech, is usually more devistating..., and your saying the mech goes super nova if, its core is damaged.. thats a bad thing, because that means the mech cant really have any support units, or fear blowing up its own army.. XD, now it is possible to make it fairly safe with little chance of explo, unless self destruct is specifically chosen by the mechs controller..., thats quite another story...
and if you wana go the 'ghost is just a spotter' route, i supose the mech is self reliant, and capabe of creating other equivalent mechs? XD, and preforming any repair jobs on itself that need be.., humans heal, mechs dont...., mechs take large quantities of precious metals, humans take food.... which you can usually leave them on their own to maintain..., humans build mechs... do mechs build humans? XD nope... Humans can come up with unexpected battle strategies, mechs go by the book, and because of that can be outsmarted (unless theres a human controler), so no a mech couldnt defeat all humans, as there are humans on the back end, keeping that mech upkept..
but you could also say that a cliff is more powerfull than an army of 10,000 humans, because 10,000 humans running off a cliff would die.. XD..
im honestly suprised more traps werent included in sc2, and kinda in sc1, atleast they had landmines.., although zerg kinda got banelinngs now for traps... i mean humans already use their food as walls, why not 1up that and make actual spike barricades..., or walls, that can prettymuch absorbe any hits that were focused without high arc (not saying i will, but i might make a new building thats better at its job than supply depots, prolly not though)
although it is kinda funny how marines can shoot through their food supply, and take out units on the other side.. XD, maybe require you to lower them, just to fire, although that kinda defeats the barricade mechanic.. XD
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lol dude, 1 names have nothing to do with anything.
2 a minitactical nuke, as you said, is cheap. then put two on a mech. -.-
A mech does not go -SUPERNOVA- Its death is small and uneventful unless its a large mech, and if it is, then you dont want to be anywhere near it anyway. abut that, there is little likyood of going critical unless you are fully damaged in thee torso area of the mech and get it by somthing big.
3. mechs build humans? humans build mechs? wtf? dude, you are making me facepalm, you are supposed to be listening to community argument instead of fightin to the last.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MECH AND A ROBOT.
AI CAN EASILY BEAT HUMANS TODAY. HUMANS SUCK AT TACTICS. HUMANS ARE BIASED. MECHS ARE NOT.
Ever heard of SCVs for repair? or nanobots? lol. making me facepalm. Also, dude, humans suck at survival and finding food, as much as it seems like they dont in movies ect. humans are also fragile. humans can DIE if the fall 30 ft. eeasily. not to metion if they didn't theyd be out of it for weeks. a mech would activate its gyros. and get moving. a mech uses a self sustaining fusion reactor and has no need for food other than the pilot who has plenty in the cockpit.
Mechs in the future can beat a human in every way. probably alot of humans too. just saying i would totally put my money on one mech than 50 marines. (real mech)
about barricades. barbed wire? maybe? i dunno an upgade to terran buildings for barbed wire? its a terrible pain to get over for melee attackers. but most units are ranged so... obviously its fairly well balanced.
2 a minitactical nuke, as you said, is cheap. then put two on a mech. -.-
A mech does not go -SUPERNOVA- Its death is small and uneventful unless its a large mech, and if it is, then you dont want to be anywhere near it anyway. abut that, there is little likyood of going critical unless you are fully damaged in thee torso area of the mech and get it by somthing big.
3. mechs build humans? humans build mechs? wtf? dude, you are making me facepalm, you are supposed to be listening to community argument instead of fightin to the last.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MECH AND A ROBOT.
AI CAN EASILY BEAT HUMANS TODAY. HUMANS SUCK AT TACTICS. HUMANS ARE BIASED. MECHS ARE NOT.
Ever heard of SCVs for repair? or nanobots? lol. making me facepalm. Also, dude, humans suck at survival and finding food, as much as it seems like they dont in movies ect. humans are also fragile. humans can DIE if the fall 30 ft. eeasily. not to metion if they didn't theyd be out of it for weeks. a mech would activate its gyros. and get moving. a mech uses a self sustaining fusion reactor and has no need for food other than the pilot who has plenty in the cockpit.
Mechs in the future can beat a human in every way. probably alot of humans too. just saying i would totally put my money on one mech than 50 marines. (real mech)
about barricades. barbed wire? maybe? i dunno an upgade to terran buildings for barbed wire? its a terrible pain to get over for melee attackers. but most units are ranged so... obviously its fairly well balanced.
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are you aware that scvs have humans inside them, so apparently in the starcraft universe, the concept of a true AI has been abandoned (maybe man made it, then had an epic war, and then swore to never use ai again?)
giving a mech a nuke, doesnt really solve anything XD..,
todays AI's can only beat humans in certain situations, none of which include real world events.. its that human bias, that makes them unpredictable..., AI will always choose the most logical choice every time, because to do otherwise is foolish, it also would likely asume the same about humans...
50 marines? the price of a large armored mech is more like 500 marines, all fully equiped...
i know names dont have much to do with anything.. but i was just makin a point, your refrencing something from another game, that quite possibly stretched the truth by far....
1 mech could probably take on 500 marines (atleast), charging it correct...
yet 1 mech would fall victim to an emp, and single ghost.. launching an emp has no effect whatsoever on the environment, or resources, that you are likely fighting over (unlike a nuke, or a physical battle)
500 marines, could destroy a large base, quicker, and cheaper than a mech
500 marines, could preform precision ops, only wasting bullets where needed, preserving whatever terrain, or buildings that need saved (spoils of war)
500 marines, could split up, into groops, and patrol miles of terrain. (although in the space age, i would see mini-cams/autoturrets taking the place of marines for task such as this, marines are still versatile, that if the requirement arises.. they can meet demand
asuming the mech has to recharge (even if it has backup systems, a small tactical squad, could take out its power source, im sure marines are trained to survive in most situations, without the comforts of a basecamp)
Mechs are Huge, although they have shock factor, they certainly dont have suprise factor, which is honestly a bigger deal, since i doubt zerglings get 'shocked' when they see a big mech, since there prettymuch mindless, and get controlled by the hive... or whatever
just because nukes are cheaper than mechs, doesnt mean attaching nukes to them solves anything..., the mech itself would have to be capable of launching said nuke, far enough that it would be out of the blast radius, unless it was for suicide purposes.., why would equip a mech with 1-2 machine guns, when you could have 30-40 auto turrets simultaniously working together shooting from every side... with a couple "big Guns", for maybe 5% more, price...
whats the difference between robots and mechs? size?, a pilot?
lets do some math XD, give me some 'stats' on what raw materials a mech would be composed of, ill compare it to some of the more expensive composit materials around today... (and just asume their stuff is like 2x as strong, and cost about the same),
how many tons of 'neosteel' or whatever, is the entire mech composed of?, as that will most likely be the most expensive part, along with the reactor core, which ill price at, Ive done some searching (and am probably now on some government watchgroup database)
and it cost roughly 60 million a warhead, simply for raw resources (plutonium ect)..., lets asume this at about 10 million, cause im sure they either, find a more efficient way to creat the bomb, and/or since there mining thousands of planets, that they find some extreemly rich in the required minerals...
which suprisingly, is the price of paying/equiping 1 us marine for a year is 1 million dollars. lets bring the cost for marines down to 200k, because im sure there not paid aswell in sc2's era, and im sure craps cheaper to make aswell...
Sofar we have:
Mech:
1fusion reactor inside it: 10 million dollars
+ raw metals for the rest of the body
+ upkeep, and power refill's
VS:
500 Marines. (125 million dollars) for 1 year
Im not absolutely sure on the nuclear bomb cost, as who knows how reliable stats on the internet are.. XD, but a reactor would probably rival the cost of the bomb, if not be more, since its designed not to melt down, whereas a bom is designed to do the oposite...
btw, does anyone happen to know a really strong composite material, that would possibly rival, Neo-steel, as it seems to logically be what they used, since starcraft lore points to battlecuisers and bunkers using it..., so i can guestimate a material with a similar cost per unit, for the weight of the mech...
@ barbed wire, yea im aware most units are ranged, and the melee units probably have a hard enough time as it is, without barbed wire XD...
giving a mech a nuke, doesnt really solve anything XD..,
todays AI's can only beat humans in certain situations, none of which include real world events.. its that human bias, that makes them unpredictable..., AI will always choose the most logical choice every time, because to do otherwise is foolish, it also would likely asume the same about humans...
50 marines? the price of a large armored mech is more like 500 marines, all fully equiped...
i know names dont have much to do with anything.. but i was just makin a point, your refrencing something from another game, that quite possibly stretched the truth by far....
1 mech could probably take on 500 marines (atleast), charging it correct...
yet 1 mech would fall victim to an emp, and single ghost.. launching an emp has no effect whatsoever on the environment, or resources, that you are likely fighting over (unlike a nuke, or a physical battle)
500 marines, could destroy a large base, quicker, and cheaper than a mech
500 marines, could preform precision ops, only wasting bullets where needed, preserving whatever terrain, or buildings that need saved (spoils of war)
500 marines, could split up, into groops, and patrol miles of terrain. (although in the space age, i would see mini-cams/autoturrets taking the place of marines for task such as this, marines are still versatile, that if the requirement arises.. they can meet demand
asuming the mech has to recharge (even if it has backup systems, a small tactical squad, could take out its power source, im sure marines are trained to survive in most situations, without the comforts of a basecamp)
Mechs are Huge, although they have shock factor, they certainly dont have suprise factor, which is honestly a bigger deal, since i doubt zerglings get 'shocked' when they see a big mech, since there prettymuch mindless, and get controlled by the hive... or whatever
just because nukes are cheaper than mechs, doesnt mean attaching nukes to them solves anything..., the mech itself would have to be capable of launching said nuke, far enough that it would be out of the blast radius, unless it was for suicide purposes.., why would equip a mech with 1-2 machine guns, when you could have 30-40 auto turrets simultaniously working together shooting from every side... with a couple "big Guns", for maybe 5% more, price...
whats the difference between robots and mechs? size?, a pilot?
lets do some math XD, give me some 'stats' on what raw materials a mech would be composed of, ill compare it to some of the more expensive composit materials around today... (and just asume their stuff is like 2x as strong, and cost about the same),
how many tons of 'neosteel' or whatever, is the entire mech composed of?, as that will most likely be the most expensive part, along with the reactor core, which ill price at, Ive done some searching (and am probably now on some government watchgroup database)
and it cost roughly 60 million a warhead, simply for raw resources (plutonium ect)..., lets asume this at about 10 million, cause im sure they either, find a more efficient way to creat the bomb, and/or since there mining thousands of planets, that they find some extreemly rich in the required minerals...
which suprisingly, is the price of paying/equiping 1 us marine for a year is 1 million dollars. lets bring the cost for marines down to 200k, because im sure there not paid aswell in sc2's era, and im sure craps cheaper to make aswell...
Sofar we have:
Mech:
1fusion reactor inside it: 10 million dollars
+ raw metals for the rest of the body
+ upkeep, and power refill's
VS:
500 Marines. (125 million dollars) for 1 year
Im not absolutely sure on the nuclear bomb cost, as who knows how reliable stats on the internet are.. XD, but a reactor would probably rival the cost of the bomb, if not be more, since its designed not to melt down, whereas a bom is designed to do the oposite...
btw, does anyone happen to know a really strong composite material, that would possibly rival, Neo-steel, as it seems to logically be what they used, since starcraft lore points to battlecuisers and bunkers using it..., so i can guestimate a material with a similar cost per unit, for the weight of the mech...
@ barbed wire, yea im aware most units are ranged, and the melee units probably have a hard enough time as it is, without barbed wire XD...
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dude your whole thing made me lol.
1. we arent talknig about the real world. fantasy. ever heard of vesene gas? how much does a thor cos in conjunction to a marine -.-
2. a Blood Asp Assault mech would own 500 marines. and i think it costs 15 million credits. -.-
3. humans bias is their downfall. a computer can make much more effective decsisions, especially in the future. it can also calculate much better than a human.
4. 500 marines could not wase a base quicker
5. mech weapons are primarily enegy based. aside from certain weapons. also their weapons are so goddamn powerful they dont need to do single shots
6. 500 is incredibly hard to coordinate. they woud be torn apart.
7. a mech has a fusion core. i already told you. what fusion is a self sustaining nucear reaction using deuteirum and most likly a series of magnets. this is housd deep within a mech. thus no a marine cannnot.
8. a EMP shorts out electronics. ALL electronics. therefore the only things really immune should be protoss and zerg. seeing as protoss run off of psi enegry. the terran are the vunerable ones, and an EMP blast would disable them all (the marines) and they couldent leave their suits because they open via an electronic system.
9. size = shock and if that doesent work they do what they are supposed to and blow everything up. zerglings can be stepped on. burn or mowed down.
10. a nice fat old mech with about 4 heavy weapons, a host of light weapons, some Long range missiles. can own pretty much any force.
11. the difference between a mech and a robot is simple and obvious. a robot is entirely AI controlled 'anything' and a mech is a AI assited human remote or in cabin walker.
12. pricinge, 125 million is about accurate for marines. a mech with standard loadout in this age is probably in the range from 8-25 million at the highest. then about 5 milion for weapons max.
dude, you cannot win.... mechs are obviously better. humans require too much matinace. in comparison. sleep, food, their suits have all the weaknesses of a mech...
Barbed wire would be fine.
1. we arent talknig about the real world. fantasy. ever heard of vesene gas? how much does a thor cos in conjunction to a marine -.-
2. a Blood Asp Assault mech would own 500 marines. and i think it costs 15 million credits. -.-
3. humans bias is their downfall. a computer can make much more effective decsisions, especially in the future. it can also calculate much better than a human.
4. 500 marines could not wase a base quicker
5. mech weapons are primarily enegy based. aside from certain weapons. also their weapons are so goddamn powerful they dont need to do single shots
6. 500 is incredibly hard to coordinate. they woud be torn apart.
7. a mech has a fusion core. i already told you. what fusion is a self sustaining nucear reaction using deuteirum and most likly a series of magnets. this is housd deep within a mech. thus no a marine cannnot.
8. a EMP shorts out electronics. ALL electronics. therefore the only things really immune should be protoss and zerg. seeing as protoss run off of psi enegry. the terran are the vunerable ones, and an EMP blast would disable them all (the marines) and they couldent leave their suits because they open via an electronic system.
9. size = shock and if that doesent work they do what they are supposed to and blow everything up. zerglings can be stepped on. burn or mowed down.
10. a nice fat old mech with about 4 heavy weapons, a host of light weapons, some Long range missiles. can own pretty much any force.
11. the difference between a mech and a robot is simple and obvious. a robot is entirely AI controlled 'anything' and a mech is a AI assited human remote or in cabin walker.
12. pricinge, 125 million is about accurate for marines. a mech with standard loadout in this age is probably in the range from 8-25 million at the highest. then about 5 milion for weapons max.
dude, you cannot win.... mechs are obviously better. humans require too much matinace. in comparison. sleep, food, their suits have all the weaknesses of a mech...
Barbed wire would be fine.
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1, sticking to real world facts, is all we really got, as all the other data is varried, and random.., so we can use real world measurements, and just asume that the vespene gas, and minerals are used to trade for the other materials..
thats y i said give me the weight of said mech, and ill calculate, based on, todays medium grade steel (lets asume that their high grade super steel cost the same as todays medium grade steel...., im sure a mech could be built for 25 million, but it wouldnt be no 60 ft mech...
2 a marines suite may have some power asistance, but im sure there quite capable of being moved without it, and EMP's dont break guns..., not to mention no emp covers the area of all the marines, if there not in the same area...
3. humans bias is their downfall. a computer can make much more effective decsisions, especially in the future. it can also calculate much better than a human.
thats where an AI, that controls, and cordinates all of the marines... XD...
So the difference between mech and robot is AI, that kinda defeats all of your 'mech would be smarter, because it has AI", if your now saying it doesnt? and technically an scv is then a mech XD, and a marine might almost be concidered a mech, depending on if it actually does have power movement or not...
your mech figures, are being pulled right out of the sky, as i said, lets compare the mechs weight, to 2x (since its lighter) its price, in modern medium grade steel...., and asume its super high grade steel (or carbide, or whatever its made of) is about the same price per pound. (keeping in mind that im sure whatevers used for the mech is prolly 5x lighter than steel, and atleast 2 times as strong)
How many scvs, do you think it would take to build a mech?, and how long? probably atleast half a year, for a group of 100... (not counting research and design cost, but there probably all the same so lets cut that)
Did you know it took BP nearly a month, to build a freakin metal cone, to stop SOME of the oil coming out of that well...
"Humans require to much maintaniance"
You mean self maintaniance.. that they can do for themselfs..., sure they require food, but mechs require quite a bit aswell, but unlike marines, you have to hire people to do it for the mech, even without physical hits, parts do wear out, and have to be replaced..., and im sure replacing a joint for one of those things, runs higher than the food cost, for a couple months, and im sure a part goes bad every couple months on average....
@a Blood Asp Assault mech would own 500 marines. and i think it costs 15 million credits. -.-
I have no idea what that is..., but ofc it would, simply for the fact that the armor cant be penetrated.., but you keep forgetting this is more like a game of rock/paper/scisors, mechs (asuming its equipped with enough weaponry), can own endless hords of small, weak units, yet will always be vulnerable, to suprise, and/or back attacks, with missles, and EMP's... which the marines trumph over (that missle prolly hits 1-2 of em, but aslong as its not nuclear, the general mass is fine... (not like the marines should be used in a mob..)
Btw someone else besides either of us wana voice an opinion on the practicallity of mechs in a futureistic war, dont just quote the storylines behind other games, but actually try to use your imagination..., and reasoning to see just how practical, or impractical you think they are, cause i have a feeling this is gonna go on quite a while, without a tie-breaker XD (ps this still has nothing todo with me including a mech, cause i probably will, include atleast 1)
thats y i said give me the weight of said mech, and ill calculate, based on, todays medium grade steel (lets asume that their high grade super steel cost the same as todays medium grade steel...., im sure a mech could be built for 25 million, but it wouldnt be no 60 ft mech...
2 a marines suite may have some power asistance, but im sure there quite capable of being moved without it, and EMP's dont break guns..., not to mention no emp covers the area of all the marines, if there not in the same area...
3. humans bias is their downfall. a computer can make much more effective decsisions, especially in the future. it can also calculate much better than a human.
thats where an AI, that controls, and cordinates all of the marines... XD...
So the difference between mech and robot is AI, that kinda defeats all of your 'mech would be smarter, because it has AI", if your now saying it doesnt? and technically an scv is then a mech XD, and a marine might almost be concidered a mech, depending on if it actually does have power movement or not...
your mech figures, are being pulled right out of the sky, as i said, lets compare the mechs weight, to 2x (since its lighter) its price, in modern medium grade steel...., and asume its super high grade steel (or carbide, or whatever its made of) is about the same price per pound. (keeping in mind that im sure whatevers used for the mech is prolly 5x lighter than steel, and atleast 2 times as strong)
How many scvs, do you think it would take to build a mech?, and how long? probably atleast half a year, for a group of 100... (not counting research and design cost, but there probably all the same so lets cut that)
Did you know it took BP nearly a month, to build a freakin metal cone, to stop SOME of the oil coming out of that well...
"Humans require to much maintaniance"
You mean self maintaniance.. that they can do for themselfs..., sure they require food, but mechs require quite a bit aswell, but unlike marines, you have to hire people to do it for the mech, even without physical hits, parts do wear out, and have to be replaced..., and im sure replacing a joint for one of those things, runs higher than the food cost, for a couple months, and im sure a part goes bad every couple months on average....
@a Blood Asp Assault mech would own 500 marines. and i think it costs 15 million credits. -.-
I have no idea what that is..., but ofc it would, simply for the fact that the armor cant be penetrated.., but you keep forgetting this is more like a game of rock/paper/scisors, mechs (asuming its equipped with enough weaponry), can own endless hords of small, weak units, yet will always be vulnerable, to suprise, and/or back attacks, with missles, and EMP's... which the marines trumph over (that missle prolly hits 1-2 of em, but aslong as its not nuclear, the general mass is fine... (not like the marines should be used in a mob..)
Btw someone else besides either of us wana voice an opinion on the practicallity of mechs in a futureistic war, dont just quote the storylines behind other games, but actually try to use your imagination..., and reasoning to see just how practical, or impractical you think they are, cause i have a feeling this is gonna go on quite a while, without a tie-breaker XD (ps this still has nothing todo with me including a mech, cause i probably will, include atleast 1)
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1. this is the future, there are plenty of worlds and the dominon can take what metal they want for cheap prices.
2. the guns are most likey electric, or have electric systems. = dead forever in a emp. the suit is very large and heavy. if it deactivated it would probably fall over.
As I said, a mech has AI assistance. you could make it a robot. My firgues are not, acually, considering the terrain dominion is an oppresive imperialistic government, they will be able to accuire materials easily. not to mention that neosteel is entruely different than steel, and that a mech is relativly hollow to fit parts.
BP didn't build the cone, they already had it.
500 marines would irl die to 1-2 missiles but in sc2 a missile is about 1/100 of acual power.
1 emp could take out 500 marines or 1 mech, as irl emps already exsist that can theoretically take out cities.
a mech has usually 8 or so weapons. 2 on each arm, torso or shoulder, too. somtiems three on arms.
i think the figure for 500 marines is about closer to 40 million, still more expensive, but you also have to consider the fact that the vaue of the credits has changed.
Humans, especially marines are not self sustaining. i'd like to see you go out into the woods and last 2 weeks. a marine would have a better chance and still couldent do it. face it, humans suck at keeping themselves alive.
A mech could theoretically last forever (aside from running out of ammo) because of its neosteel constrution, and its self-sustaining power core. some mechs even have a team of 1-3 mechanics with the pilot ot help out in long term engaments. there is no reason why a mech cant have a emp weapon to take all of those marines out.
The mech woud barrel in firing lasers and missiles and rockets and scatter the marines. then he would shot and stamp and fire emps until they are dead.
a mech is a much more reliable choice. I'd much rather have a pair of mechs at my back than 1000 marines. hands down.
btw: blood asp
large control cockpit. 11 weapons (if you include the missile batteru under the control center.
a gauss rifle cannot penetrate alot of stuff in sc lore. this thigs armor among it.
2. the guns are most likey electric, or have electric systems. = dead forever in a emp. the suit is very large and heavy. if it deactivated it would probably fall over.
As I said, a mech has AI assistance. you could make it a robot. My firgues are not, acually, considering the terrain dominion is an oppresive imperialistic government, they will be able to accuire materials easily. not to mention that neosteel is entruely different than steel, and that a mech is relativly hollow to fit parts.
BP didn't build the cone, they already had it.
500 marines would irl die to 1-2 missiles but in sc2 a missile is about 1/100 of acual power.
1 emp could take out 500 marines or 1 mech, as irl emps already exsist that can theoretically take out cities.
a mech has usually 8 or so weapons. 2 on each arm, torso or shoulder, too. somtiems three on arms.
i think the figure for 500 marines is about closer to 40 million, still more expensive, but you also have to consider the fact that the vaue of the credits has changed.
Humans, especially marines are not self sustaining. i'd like to see you go out into the woods and last 2 weeks. a marine would have a better chance and still couldent do it. face it, humans suck at keeping themselves alive.
A mech could theoretically last forever (aside from running out of ammo) because of its neosteel constrution, and its self-sustaining power core. some mechs even have a team of 1-3 mechanics with the pilot ot help out in long term engaments. there is no reason why a mech cant have a emp weapon to take all of those marines out.
The mech woud barrel in firing lasers and missiles and rockets and scatter the marines. then he would shot and stamp and fire emps until they are dead.
a mech is a much more reliable choice. I'd much rather have a pair of mechs at my back than 1000 marines. hands down.
btw: blood asp
large control cockpit. 11 weapons (if you include the missile batteru under the control center.
a gauss rifle cannot penetrate alot of stuff in sc lore. this thigs armor among it.
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even nuclear cores need refills... so a mech isnt permanent...
I could survive in the wild for 2 weeks (maybe not in some desolate dessert), and im sure a mech with training could survive much longer...., humans are great at survival...
i doubt the marines weaponry would be electric, because electric, never would be as strong as explosive, although chances are it may be gas powered, combustion is still likely the propulsion system on weapons (plus im sure they figure itd be good to have something that works after an emp.. XD)
sure a missle could take out 500 marines standing in 1 big pile...., but thats the beauty of marines, you can, and probably should scatter them.... drop in groups of 5-20, maybe even 40 for a large assault, but never 500, at one place, at one time (except maybe basecamp XD)
bp already had that cone?!?! and it took them a month to get it there and positioned? just wow...
wait a second, the mech fires emps? emps that have little effect on the marines, (maybe disable target control systems, and remove the motor asistance from their legs), while potentially disabling himself, if one goes off to close...
oh and that mech u just linked to, definently has weak knees... XD
asuming that they can spread to as many plannets as they want, and get as much steel as they want for free..., mining still aint free, nor is intergalactic transport...
Im aware that much of the mech is hollow, thats why i asked for its WEIGHT, and not its area... XD'
3, even though a nuke could take care of the same thing, a mech or marines could, for probably cheaper... there is still a reason for marines (precision strikes..), why would you use a mech, when nukes are so much more cost effective?
there is no empty role for a mech to cost effectivly fill.. is the primary problem... not that marines in particular are a better choice..., although between planes carpetbombing a city, and marines for tactical operations, whats left for a mech to do?
I could survive in the wild for 2 weeks (maybe not in some desolate dessert), and im sure a mech with training could survive much longer...., humans are great at survival...
i doubt the marines weaponry would be electric, because electric, never would be as strong as explosive, although chances are it may be gas powered, combustion is still likely the propulsion system on weapons (plus im sure they figure itd be good to have something that works after an emp.. XD)
sure a missle could take out 500 marines standing in 1 big pile...., but thats the beauty of marines, you can, and probably should scatter them.... drop in groups of 5-20, maybe even 40 for a large assault, but never 500, at one place, at one time (except maybe basecamp XD)
bp already had that cone?!?! and it took them a month to get it there and positioned? just wow...
wait a second, the mech fires emps? emps that have little effect on the marines, (maybe disable target control systems, and remove the motor asistance from their legs), while potentially disabling himself, if one goes off to close...
oh and that mech u just linked to, definently has weak knees... XD
asuming that they can spread to as many plannets as they want, and get as much steel as they want for free..., mining still aint free, nor is intergalactic transport...
Im aware that much of the mech is hollow, thats why i asked for its WEIGHT, and not its area... XD'
3, even though a nuke could take care of the same thing, a mech or marines could, for probably cheaper... there is still a reason for marines (precision strikes..), why would you use a mech, when nukes are so much more cost effective?
there is no empty role for a mech to cost effectivly fill.. is the primary problem... not that marines in particular are a better choice..., although between planes carpetbombing a city, and marines for tactical operations, whats left for a mech to do?
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did i say in one pile? 500 marines, even scattered would be torn apart. and dude, fuel for a fusion reactino can be stored easily, say 50 years worth in a smaal space.
The marine gauss rifles systems uses electricity for fire control.
the marine suit uses a electric reactor. ergo, easily targetable.
emp mounted on a mech could be easily calibrated for exact size of burst. emp effects are premanant
the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that.
a mech usually weighs about 25-100 tons. and is full of things other than metal.
a mech could easily preform its own carpet bomb. a single tank could hold off 500 marines if effectvly backed up with maybe 50 infantry, a single mech could own that. a meh can do antiair and fire effectivly on the move.
the system to control, build house and fire a nke builds up the cost and a nuke is a single use machine. a mech can be sued for amny missions and is more tactically effective. a mech can be used for tactical operations and it has a much better view/range/ speed than a marine.
A mech can do many things depending on weight, 50 and under, medium/light combat and recon 55- up, heavy combat.
mechs are extrmely effctive and devistating, and they can also preform orbital drops with jump kits, and can fire as they fall. and they can be outfitted with planetary jump jets for hops. like cliff jumping ect. A mech is ten times any infantry and tank in durability, capeabiliy, and versatiliy.
i win lets stop arguing and get back to the friggen mod.
The marine gauss rifles systems uses electricity for fire control.
the marine suit uses a electric reactor. ergo, easily targetable.
emp mounted on a mech could be easily calibrated for exact size of burst. emp effects are premanant
the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that.
a mech usually weighs about 25-100 tons. and is full of things other than metal.
a mech could easily preform its own carpet bomb. a single tank could hold off 500 marines if effectvly backed up with maybe 50 infantry, a single mech could own that. a meh can do antiair and fire effectivly on the move.
the system to control, build house and fire a nke builds up the cost and a nuke is a single use machine. a mech can be sued for amny missions and is more tactically effective. a mech can be used for tactical operations and it has a much better view/range/ speed than a marine.
A mech can do many things depending on weight, 50 and under, medium/light combat and recon 55- up, heavy combat.
mechs are extrmely effctive and devistating, and they can also preform orbital drops with jump kits, and can fire as they fall. and they can be outfitted with planetary jump jets for hops. like cliff jumping ect. A mech is ten times any infantry and tank in durability, capeabiliy, and versatiliy.
i win lets stop arguing and get back to the friggen mod.
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"a mech can be used for any mission" lets see a mech go on a covert ops mission, sneak into an enemy base, and steal a 3 inch data cd... XD
i dont see a mech preforming a carpet bomb, without missles, whereas a planes bombs need no prepulsion system of their own, did i mention a plan is so much cheaper..., and faster..., able to drop said bomb, and get outa there, probably berfore the first bomb explodes...
Its true a mech takes specialized weapons to destroy, but the amount of time a mech is in one location, grants plenty of time for those specialized weapons to amas
@ marines, im sure that even if their firerate was controlled by an electric system, that the guns would still fire without this, maybe at an increased firerate.... (but if i computer controlls firerate, why does stimpack increase fire-rate?)
@ their armor using electricity, odds are their legs are machine asisted, for faster movement...
how many missles have been fired by enemys in IRAQ, or any war for that matter?, have ANY of them killed 250, or even near 250 marines?, no..., concidering as you said these marines have full body armor.. making even less casualties, except the marines directly at the point of impact, or if those missles were tactical nukes, or higher..., scattered doesnt mean each marine is 10-15 feet apart, it means platoons of marines, are on average, 100 yards away...
"the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that." you claim this, yet you also claim it could jump from orbit... thus requireing a couple hundred times that, (unless your claiming they have retro rockets slowing their decent (personally id go with large parachutes.. but i guess it helps with climbing cliffs to....)
Do you have any idea how much fuel it takes to keep something that huge in the air.... a fkin lot....
the fuel for 'fuel cores' is no doubt expensive, as it takes some of the rareist elements around..., and its not like they got a vast supply stockpiled, as the war has been rageing for quite a while....
you dont have to break the joints, all you really have to do is bend them...
the only disposable part is the nuke itself... the launch pad, and the building station can be reused
and your mech is still wasting a lot of ammo..., unless your claiming it to fire energy rounds, drawn from its core... in which case, its core, would probably run out alot faster than you claim...
@ emp effects being permanent, sure the emp permanently frys the chips... but chips are cheap... and easy to replace...
but replacing them in a mech might be alittle harder...
10 marines, could launch an emp take out your mech...
ur mech, could maybe take out the marines (emp or otherwise), but the mech is now disabled.. and human loss is about 10 marines....
light combat mechs/robots, might be more efficient.... but lets not get into argueing that, although 50 tons? would hardly classify as a 'small' mech
more like 1-5 tons.... (1 ton being more of robots, and probably not even having humans in them), as for the most part i agree with their effiency..
the fact is, specialist is the way to go, having 1 unit that can 'do it all' is very resource demanding, if you need a place obliterated, drop a nuke...., dont drop a mech, to launch a nuke..., if you need a place livable, and want to kill all biological inhabitants, drop bioligical weaponry, preferably something that destroys itself, after a certain time from release (or maybe nano-bots, that can be de-activated whenever, or target specific people)
i dont see a mech preforming a carpet bomb, without missles, whereas a planes bombs need no prepulsion system of their own, did i mention a plan is so much cheaper..., and faster..., able to drop said bomb, and get outa there, probably berfore the first bomb explodes...
Its true a mech takes specialized weapons to destroy, but the amount of time a mech is in one location, grants plenty of time for those specialized weapons to amas
@ marines, im sure that even if their firerate was controlled by an electric system, that the guns would still fire without this, maybe at an increased firerate.... (but if i computer controlls firerate, why does stimpack increase fire-rate?)
@ their armor using electricity, odds are their legs are machine asisted, for faster movement...
how many missles have been fired by enemys in IRAQ, or any war for that matter?, have ANY of them killed 250, or even near 250 marines?, no..., concidering as you said these marines have full body armor.. making even less casualties, except the marines directly at the point of impact, or if those missles were tactical nukes, or higher..., scattered doesnt mean each marine is 10-15 feet apart, it means platoons of marines, are on average, 100 yards away...
"the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that." you claim this, yet you also claim it could jump from orbit... thus requireing a couple hundred times that, (unless your claiming they have retro rockets slowing their decent (personally id go with large parachutes.. but i guess it helps with climbing cliffs to....)
Do you have any idea how much fuel it takes to keep something that huge in the air.... a fkin lot....
the fuel for 'fuel cores' is no doubt expensive, as it takes some of the rareist elements around..., and its not like they got a vast supply stockpiled, as the war has been rageing for quite a while....
you dont have to break the joints, all you really have to do is bend them...
the only disposable part is the nuke itself... the launch pad, and the building station can be reused
and your mech is still wasting a lot of ammo..., unless your claiming it to fire energy rounds, drawn from its core... in which case, its core, would probably run out alot faster than you claim...
@ emp effects being permanent, sure the emp permanently frys the chips... but chips are cheap... and easy to replace...
but replacing them in a mech might be alittle harder...
10 marines, could launch an emp take out your mech...
ur mech, could maybe take out the marines (emp or otherwise), but the mech is now disabled.. and human loss is about 10 marines....
light combat mechs/robots, might be more efficient.... but lets not get into argueing that, although 50 tons? would hardly classify as a 'small' mech
more like 1-5 tons.... (1 ton being more of robots, and probably not even having humans in them), as for the most part i agree with their effiency..
the fact is, specialist is the way to go, having 1 unit that can 'do it all' is very resource demanding, if you need a place obliterated, drop a nuke...., dont drop a mech, to launch a nuke..., if you need a place livable, and want to kill all biological inhabitants, drop bioligical weaponry, preferably something that destroys itself, after a certain time from release (or maybe nano-bots, that can be de-activated whenever, or target specific people)
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Well fuck. my arguemnt just got deleted, i'll finish it later, but lets just say that your about wrong on almost all counts.
if you want we could stop this after my rebuttal so we could get to work on ur mod.
if you want we could stop this after my rebuttal so we could get to work on ur mod.
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"a mech can be used for any mission" lets see a mech go on a covert ops mission, sneak into an enemy base, and steal a 3 inch data cd... XD
i dont see a mech preforming a carpet bomb, without missles, whereas a planes bombs need no prepulsion system of their own, did i mention a plan is so much cheaper..., and faster..., able to drop said bomb, and get outa there, probably berfore the first bomb explodes...
Its true a mech takes specialized weapons to destroy, but the amount of time a mech is in one location, grants plenty of time for those specialized weapons to amas
@ marines, im sure that even if their firerate was controlled by an electric system, that the guns would still fire without this, maybe at an increased firerate.... (but if i computer controlls firerate, why does stimpack increase fire-rate?)
@ their armor using electricity, odds are their legs are machine asisted, for faster movement...
how many missles have been fired by enemys in IRAQ, or any war for that matter?, have ANY of them killed 250, or even near 250 marines?, no..., concidering as you said these marines have full body armor.. making even less casualties, except the marines directly at the point of impact, or if those missles were tactical nukes, or higher..., scattered doesnt mean each marine is 10-15 feet apart, it means platoons of marines, are on average, 100 yards away...
"the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that." you claim this, yet you also claim it could jump from orbit... thus requireing a couple hundred times that, (unless your claiming they have retro rockets slowing their decent (personally id go with large parachutes.. but i guess it helps with climbing cliffs to....)
Do you have any idea how much fuel it takes to keep something that huge in the air.... a fkin lot....
the fuel for 'fuel cores' is no doubt expensive, as it takes some of the rareist elements around..., and its not like they got a vast supply stockpiled, as the war has been rageing for quite a while....
you dont have to break the joints, all you really have to do is bend them...
the only disposable part is the nuke itself... the launch pad, and the building station can be reused
and your mech is still wasting a lot of ammo..., unless your claiming it to fire energy rounds, drawn from its core... in which case, its core, would probably run out alot faster than you claim...
@ emp effects being permanent, sure the emp permanently frys the chips... but chips are cheap... and easy to replace...
but replacing them in a mech might be alittle harder...
10 marines, could launch an emp take out your mech...
ur mech, could maybe take out the marines (emp or otherwise), but the mech is now disabled.. and human loss is about 10 marines....
light combat mechs/robots, might be more efficient.... but lets not get into argueing that, although 50 tons? would hardly classify as a 'small' mech
more like 1-5 tons.... (1 ton being more of robots, and probably not even having humans in them), as for the most part i agree with their effiency..
the fact is, specialist is the way to go, having 1 unit that can 'do it all' is very resource demanding, if you need a place obliterated, drop a nuke...., dont drop a mech, to launch a nuke..., if you need a place livable, and want to kill all biological inhabitants, drop bioligical weaponry, preferably something that destroys itself, after a certain time from release (or maybe nano-bots, that can be de-activated whenever, or target specific people)
The mech (Price)
And raw steel for a mech (@900tons) would be about $60,000 today, that should cover the excess non-steel parts in a 100ton mech...,
so lets asume, that this 'super steel' in a world of huge demand... (just cause theres plenty, doesnt mean they can harvest it fast enough)
averages about 600,000, for that of a mech... construction is probably the largest part, unless you plan on creating a 'mech factory' which even with a mech factory, pouring out only a single model, your looking at 15 million a piece (not including initial factory cost, but rather effective labor, casting, and molding, ect), sofar were up to (10 million for the core, 15 million for labor, .6 million for raw material... (excluding the core materials)
thats 25 million a piece, for un-equipped mechs, of average size, without research cost, or creation of a mech factory, or transportation...
Weaponry
Lets asume about 50 million a year (per mech) goes on ammo, bullets, missles,
no nukes..
Research&Design
This can varry widely, and depending on how many of each model of mech made, depends on what would be spent for research.., lets asume 1000 mechs get made, per design..., (lets asume 5 billion, aka 5 million per mech)
thats 80 million per mech/year
lets asume a factory to spit out about 100 of these mechs (2 billion, aka 20 million apiece)
(another 5 million for transportation, for 1 year)
brings the grand total to $105 million per mech... (average sized mech, of about 60 tons). WITHOUT REPAIRS, which i cant even begin to figure out, as, each repair is case by case... (lets just tack on 20 million/year, and asume the mechs average lifespan is 1 year, of use... (you may argue, but a year on the battle field is probably average, with some mechs lasting about 5 years)
125 million dollars.. pretty acurate (tell me if you think any of the figure are drastically off, along with an argument as to why, preferably supported by facts (based on real world data)
i dont see a mech preforming a carpet bomb, without missles, whereas a planes bombs need no prepulsion system of their own, did i mention a plan is so much cheaper..., and faster..., able to drop said bomb, and get outa there, probably berfore the first bomb explodes...
Its true a mech takes specialized weapons to destroy, but the amount of time a mech is in one location, grants plenty of time for those specialized weapons to amas
@ marines, im sure that even if their firerate was controlled by an electric system, that the guns would still fire without this, maybe at an increased firerate.... (but if i computer controlls firerate, why does stimpack increase fire-rate?)
@ their armor using electricity, odds are their legs are machine asisted, for faster movement...
how many missles have been fired by enemys in IRAQ, or any war for that matter?, have ANY of them killed 250, or even near 250 marines?, no..., concidering as you said these marines have full body armor.. making even less casualties, except the marines directly at the point of impact, or if those missles were tactical nukes, or higher..., scattered doesnt mean each marine is 10-15 feet apart, it means platoons of marines, are on average, 100 yards away...
"the mech does not have weak knees, maybe hip joins, but a solit neosteel join could hold up ten times that." you claim this, yet you also claim it could jump from orbit... thus requireing a couple hundred times that, (unless your claiming they have retro rockets slowing their decent (personally id go with large parachutes.. but i guess it helps with climbing cliffs to....)
Do you have any idea how much fuel it takes to keep something that huge in the air.... a fkin lot....
the fuel for 'fuel cores' is no doubt expensive, as it takes some of the rareist elements around..., and its not like they got a vast supply stockpiled, as the war has been rageing for quite a while....
you dont have to break the joints, all you really have to do is bend them...
the only disposable part is the nuke itself... the launch pad, and the building station can be reused
and your mech is still wasting a lot of ammo..., unless your claiming it to fire energy rounds, drawn from its core... in which case, its core, would probably run out alot faster than you claim...
@ emp effects being permanent, sure the emp permanently frys the chips... but chips are cheap... and easy to replace...
but replacing them in a mech might be alittle harder...
10 marines, could launch an emp take out your mech...
ur mech, could maybe take out the marines (emp or otherwise), but the mech is now disabled.. and human loss is about 10 marines....
light combat mechs/robots, might be more efficient.... but lets not get into argueing that, although 50 tons? would hardly classify as a 'small' mech
more like 1-5 tons.... (1 ton being more of robots, and probably not even having humans in them), as for the most part i agree with their effiency..
the fact is, specialist is the way to go, having 1 unit that can 'do it all' is very resource demanding, if you need a place obliterated, drop a nuke...., dont drop a mech, to launch a nuke..., if you need a place livable, and want to kill all biological inhabitants, drop bioligical weaponry, preferably something that destroys itself, after a certain time from release (or maybe nano-bots, that can be de-activated whenever, or target specific people)
The mech (Price)
And raw steel for a mech (@900tons) would be about $60,000 today, that should cover the excess non-steel parts in a 100ton mech...,
so lets asume, that this 'super steel' in a world of huge demand... (just cause theres plenty, doesnt mean they can harvest it fast enough)
averages about 600,000, for that of a mech... construction is probably the largest part, unless you plan on creating a 'mech factory' which even with a mech factory, pouring out only a single model, your looking at 15 million a piece (not including initial factory cost, but rather effective labor, casting, and molding, ect), sofar were up to (10 million for the core, 15 million for labor, .6 million for raw material... (excluding the core materials)
thats 25 million a piece, for un-equipped mechs, of average size, without research cost, or creation of a mech factory, or transportation...
Weaponry
Lets asume about 50 million a year (per mech) goes on ammo, bullets, missles,
no nukes..
Research&Design
This can varry widely, and depending on how many of each model of mech made, depends on what would be spent for research.., lets asume 1000 mechs get made, per design..., (lets asume 5 billion, aka 5 million per mech)
thats 80 million per mech/year
lets asume a factory to spit out about 100 of these mechs (2 billion, aka 20 million apiece)
(another 5 million for transportation, for 1 year)
brings the grand total to $105 million per mech... (average sized mech, of about 60 tons). WITHOUT REPAIRS, which i cant even begin to figure out, as, each repair is case by case... (lets just tack on 20 million/year, and asume the mechs average lifespan is 1 year, of use... (you may argue, but a year on the battle field is probably average, with some mechs lasting about 5 years)
125 million dollars.. pretty acurate (tell me if you think any of the figure are drastically off, along with an argument as to why, preferably supported by facts (based on real world data)
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- Mar 9, 2009
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- 6,276
Lol, you jus't dont get it do you?
Well look were not here to discuss how awesome and vastly more effective they are. be that as it is.
How about we discuss your mod?
(not even bothering to read cause there too much text and your silly reasoning hurts my eyes) XD!
The major thing you have to look out fore is to keep the balance, Sc2 is extremely well balanced, but booring. you have to spice it up, whilst keeping the balance fairly steady. (i am making a huge mod and it is no mean feat)
Well look were not here to discuss how awesome and vastly more effective they are. be that as it is.
How about we discuss your mod?
(not even bothering to read cause there too much text and your silly reasoning hurts my eyes) XD!
The major thing you have to look out fore is to keep the balance, Sc2 is extremely well balanced, but booring. you have to spice it up, whilst keeping the balance fairly steady. (i am making a huge mod and it is no mean feat)
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- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,302
lawl 'silly'....
i still stand by mechs being impractical..., because 80% of your 'reasons' mechs are practical, involve either something you saw on a tv show, (sure that mech destroyed the city, but so did godzilla...)
I wouldnt call the ultralisk practical, if it didnt fill a very important role, the zerg knowingly need.. and since zerg control how they evolve..., but its doubtful that if regular evolution took its course, that the ultralisk would eever see the light of day XD, i wonder if the zerg actually have any un-functional species, that didnt evolve to suit the needs of the colony..
Anyways.. yea back to the mod
i still stand by mechs being impractical..., because 80% of your 'reasons' mechs are practical, involve either something you saw on a tv show, (sure that mech destroyed the city, but so did godzilla...)
I wouldnt call the ultralisk practical, if it didnt fill a very important role, the zerg knowingly need.. and since zerg control how they evolve..., but its doubtful that if regular evolution took its course, that the ultralisk would eever see the light of day XD, i wonder if the zerg actually have any un-functional species, that didnt evolve to suit the needs of the colony..
Anyways.. yea back to the mod
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- Mar 9, 2009
- Messages
- 6,276
1. i have never seen a tv show with mechs, i get about 90% of my stuff from facts/common sense. (and i consider the condition of the future aswell)
2. The ultralisk is a zerg mutation based off of an assmilated species. its very effective.
BACK TO UR FRIGGEN MOD. DO NOT REPLY TO THE ABOVE.
2. The ultralisk is a zerg mutation based off of an assmilated species. its very effective.
BACK TO UR FRIGGEN MOD. DO NOT REPLY TO THE ABOVE.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,302
Im also debating now on a bounty system, where roughly 50-75% of a units resource cost, is rewarded to whoever kills it (bio units will probably give 50, and mech 75% (protoss warships are mech, aswell as terrain, and buildings)
The only problem im seeing running into is for zerg, which have no real mech units, however it may work out, if i rework the food system into a more active thing (a supply depot creates 8 food every 30 seconds, and a marine consumes 1 food every 30 seconds, that way zerg kills could also reward food, and terrain/toss kills would award food for the zerg, also probably a bad idea, but i could add wild game (deer ect) to curve the food cost), how my food system would work, is you would take dps, based on the food shortage (you have 100 food worth of people, trying to survive on 50 food per cycle, they would get reduced atributes (maybe even permanent)
like maybe a unit whos only recieving half 'max' food, would get movement speed decrease, (effect is removed, when supply demands are met, but worsens with severity of hunger), and max hp loss (permanent, even after food demands are met, stackable (every 30 seconds you loose a % of max, based on amount of deprivation)
although both of these ideas are really gamechanging mechanics, i still need to test, and whatnot, to find practicallity
The only problem im seeing running into is for zerg, which have no real mech units, however it may work out, if i rework the food system into a more active thing (a supply depot creates 8 food every 30 seconds, and a marine consumes 1 food every 30 seconds, that way zerg kills could also reward food
, and terrain/toss kills would award food for the zerg, also probably a bad idea, but i could add wild game (deer ect) to curve the food cost), how my food system would work, is you would take dps, based on the food shortage (you have 100 food worth of people, trying to survive on 50 food per cycle, they would get reduced atributes (maybe even permanent)like maybe a unit whos only recieving half 'max' food, would get movement speed decrease, (effect is removed, when supply demands are met, but worsens with severity of hunger), and max hp loss (permanent, even after food demands are met, stackable (every 30 seconds you loose a % of max, based on amount of deprivation)
although both of these ideas are really gamechanging mechanics, i still need to test, and whatnot, to find practicallity
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- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,555
Go make your own game. If you don't like Sc2 the way it is, and you want a HUGE change, then just learn how to program.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2005
- Messages
- 10,532
High ground miss rate: The current spotting difficulties work just fine too.
Experience: Oh god no.
Random miss chance: Oh god no.
Depleted geysers: Were a waste of workers in the first game. If the geyser was depleted it was more or less worthless, so if anything the new system gives you a big hint to get your workers doing something useful.
Slow down fights: No thanks, they're fine right now.
Digestion pit: Doesn't really fit any lore and sounds silly.
Hatchery: Those upgrades would make Zerg rigged, and no, workers should not be trained.
Lair modification: Zerg need the early AA with hydras being tier 2.
Hive interceptors: No thanks.
Creep: way too complicated, no thanks.
Dodge/Evasion system: Way overcomplicated and leaves a significant amount to luck. Also doesn't fit Starcraft at all.
Zerglings passing cliffs and units: You're joking, right?
Zerglings coming in packs of 4: You're really joking, right?
Massive hydralisk buff: No thanks. Move while burrowed is good enough on two units as it is, Zerg don't need more anti-light units (Muta/ling anyone?), and the price nerf would make them insane.
--
I'm going to stop here because I haven't found a single good suggestion. Learn to play Starcraft 2 before you suggest why it's bad (you clearly haven't based on these suggestions), and learn to design games before you try, please. This thread should basically be titled "Why I don't understand Starcraft 2". It's also pretty funny that you think that the Thor is overpriced and that Dropship-style units aren't good enough as it is.
Also, how in the world is Starcraft 2 boring? If you find it boring, it probably isn't for you.
Experience: Oh god no.
Random miss chance: Oh god no.
Depleted geysers: Were a waste of workers in the first game. If the geyser was depleted it was more or less worthless, so if anything the new system gives you a big hint to get your workers doing something useful.
Slow down fights: No thanks, they're fine right now.
Digestion pit: Doesn't really fit any lore and sounds silly.
Hatchery: Those upgrades would make Zerg rigged, and no, workers should not be trained.
Lair modification: Zerg need the early AA with hydras being tier 2.
Hive interceptors: No thanks.
Creep: way too complicated, no thanks.
Dodge/Evasion system: Way overcomplicated and leaves a significant amount to luck. Also doesn't fit Starcraft at all.
Zerglings passing cliffs and units: You're joking, right?
Zerglings coming in packs of 4: You're really joking, right?
Massive hydralisk buff: No thanks. Move while burrowed is good enough on two units as it is, Zerg don't need more anti-light units (Muta/ling anyone?), and the price nerf would make them insane.
--
I'm going to stop here because I haven't found a single good suggestion. Learn to play Starcraft 2 before you suggest why it's bad (you clearly haven't based on these suggestions), and learn to design games before you try, please. This thread should basically be titled "Why I don't understand Starcraft 2". It's also pretty funny that you think that the Thor is overpriced and that Dropship-style units aren't good enough as it is.
Also, how in the world is Starcraft 2 boring? If you find it boring, it probably isn't for you.
- Joined
- May 27, 2007
- Messages
- 162
I was going to resist posting at all.. Then I was just going to one word post with "Sigh". Now I just can't resist.
High ground miss rate: There is a 100% miss rate already. In fact, a unit on high ground CANNOT even be SEEN by units lower than it. Play SC2 much?
Experience: Yeah, sure, lets give each unit a talent-tree, skills and play WoW in SC2. No thank you.
Random miss chance: So, let's just roll dice to determine winners?
Depleted geysers & 'depleted minerals' - lol. Don't even have a demoralising comment for this one. Just lol.
You want to slow down the fights? Easy, hit F10, Options, Game options, set speed to "NOOB". Should sort you out all right.
As for Dodge & Evasion. See my point about rolling dice to determine winners.
Hydralisk buff? Zerglings climbing cliffs? Zerglings coming in four-packs? I echo PurplePoots viewpoint on this - you have to be joking? And also, it begs the question, have you even played Starcraft 2?
--
So, pretty much go play starcraft 2. Try and get good at it, try and understand it. Then come back here and read this thread. Take a long hard look at yourself in a mirror. And then if you still cannot see the inherent flaws with any of this... god help us all.
I was going to stop typing a while ago, but my fingers got carried away in anger. Go play dota.
High ground miss rate: There is a 100% miss rate already. In fact, a unit on high ground CANNOT even be SEEN by units lower than it. Play SC2 much?
Experience: Yeah, sure, lets give each unit a talent-tree, skills and play WoW in SC2. No thank you.
Random miss chance: So, let's just roll dice to determine winners?
Depleted geysers & 'depleted minerals' - lol. Don't even have a demoralising comment for this one. Just lol.
You want to slow down the fights? Easy, hit F10, Options, Game options, set speed to "NOOB". Should sort you out all right.
As for Dodge & Evasion. See my point about rolling dice to determine winners.
Hydralisk buff? Zerglings climbing cliffs? Zerglings coming in four-packs? I echo PurplePoots viewpoint on this - you have to be joking? And also, it begs the question, have you even played Starcraft 2?
--
So, pretty much go play starcraft 2. Try and get good at it, try and understand it. Then come back here and read this thread. Take a long hard look at yourself in a mirror. And then if you still cannot see the inherent flaws with any of this... god help us all.
I was going to stop typing a while ago, but my fingers got carried away in anger. Go play dota.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,555
Originally, there was an ability to make 4 zerglings spawn, with 50% increased hatch time, and double resources if i recall correctly.
Inverse Occubation was it? It's still in the beta's ability list. Dunno if it works.
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- Jan 23, 2007
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- 1,302
Its, been quite a while, and ive bought the game.. still addin to the idea POOL, and still not sure if im going to make the mod..., but ive been leaning twards real time projectiles now, as from some of the test ive run, seem to really help in uneven combat (you send in 10 marines, against there 50, youll atleast do enough damage to 'kill' 5, although you probably wont kill any)
whereas sc2s current system, your 10 marines would likely kill 2, and not hurt anything else..
with this system however damage distribution will be spread out rather than focus, vastly increasing the role of healing..., for human that means medics heal may be replaced with an 'triage' type skill (auto-cast, non-stacking, rejuvination, over time, maybe with debuff of somesort untill healed), would prompt for post-fight healing, rather than mid-fight, may even give medics a revive type skill aswell
@the current feedback
it doesnt seem to be getting through that, this 'game' would hardly be based on starcraft 2, other than theme, and genre (rts)
@ depleeted gueysers being a waste..
well there better than nothing if your currently trapped in your base... with no other guysers to mine
@highground miss is already 100%
that would be inacurate... because you dont even try to attack high ground units as you cant see them..., im just stating that i prefered sc1's system where highground units were revealed... but had a reduced chance to be hit..., with real time projectiles, this wont be as much of an issue..
@digestion pit not fitting lore
How not?,
according to lore, zerg are ruthless, and efficient..
whats more efficient than using all available resources, including the corpses of enemys...
also its creepy, and dynamic... I really think itd fit well with zerg...
@creep being to complicated..
so life regeneration for allied, and ms reduction for enemy is to complicated?, ill admit maybe the automatic transferance of hitpoints from 1 structure to another, and even automatic growing may be a little up there... (the destroying of creep, would likely go hand in hand with the automatic growing creep, although i dont know exactly how i would go about doing it..., maybe it would just automatically sprout creep tumors for ya...)
@hatchery upgrades make them rigged
rigged with the current game, asuming you didnt counterbalance it, by maybe removing the queens spawn larvae ability... but anything can be balanced, with the right stats....
any time you add anything to a balanced system.. it becomes unbalanced..., untill you remove something else..
from first post:
(for those of you who have posted, That would be Unfair, or That would make X to strong, these would be concidered balance opinions, and how can you have balance opinions, on something that hasnt even ben half way developed, for example, lets say i want zerglings to be able to jump up/down cliffs...., (OMG WAI OP!!), but now lets say, they can jump cliffs, but they only deal 1 damage, instead of 5... (OMG WAI UNDERPOWERED!!), the key here.. is finding the average 'value' of cliff climbability...., and subtracting from some other attribute to make it fair..)
so again with concepts/ideas, that you think might be fun mechanics to do in the game, regardless of balance...., because balance is one of those things applied way later in a project...
whereas sc2s current system, your 10 marines would likely kill 2, and not hurt anything else..
with this system however damage distribution will be spread out rather than focus, vastly increasing the role of healing..., for human that means medics heal may be replaced with an 'triage' type skill (auto-cast, non-stacking, rejuvination, over time, maybe with debuff of somesort untill healed), would prompt for post-fight healing, rather than mid-fight, may even give medics a revive type skill aswell
@the current feedback
it doesnt seem to be getting through that, this 'game' would hardly be based on starcraft 2, other than theme, and genre (rts)
@ depleeted gueysers being a waste..
well there better than nothing if your currently trapped in your base... with no other guysers to mine
@highground miss is already 100%
that would be inacurate... because you dont even try to attack high ground units as you cant see them..., im just stating that i prefered sc1's system where highground units were revealed... but had a reduced chance to be hit..., with real time projectiles, this wont be as much of an issue..
@digestion pit not fitting lore
How not?,
according to lore, zerg are ruthless, and efficient..
whats more efficient than using all available resources, including the corpses of enemys...
also its creepy, and dynamic... I really think itd fit well with zerg...
@creep being to complicated..
so life regeneration for allied, and ms reduction for enemy is to complicated?, ill admit maybe the automatic transferance of hitpoints from 1 structure to another, and even automatic growing may be a little up there... (the destroying of creep, would likely go hand in hand with the automatic growing creep, although i dont know exactly how i would go about doing it..., maybe it would just automatically sprout creep tumors for ya...)
@hatchery upgrades make them rigged
rigged with the current game, asuming you didnt counterbalance it, by maybe removing the queens spawn larvae ability...
but anything can be balanced, with the right stats....any time you add anything to a balanced system.. it becomes unbalanced..., untill you remove something else..
from first post:
(for those of you who have posted, That would be Unfair, or That would make X to strong, these would be concidered balance opinions, and how can you have balance opinions, on something that hasnt even ben half way developed, for example, lets say i want zerglings to be able to jump up/down cliffs...., (OMG WAI OP!!), but now lets say, they can jump cliffs, but they only deal 1 damage, instead of 5... (OMG WAI UNDERPOWERED!!), the key here.. is finding the average 'value' of cliff climbability...., and subtracting from some other attribute to make it fair..)
so again with concepts/ideas, that you think might be fun mechanics to do in the game, regardless of balance...., because balance is one of those things applied way later in a project...
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- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 931
I was about to type something else until I remembered that this thread was for a mod to alter melee. Carry on.
- Status
