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Using Inversion to Demonstrate Zerg Balance

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I have come up with an inversion schematic to demonstrate the flaw of zerg's design very clearly....

We can look at the restrictions, partial restrictions or freedoms of race functions to see the big picture.

Going in to starcraft 2, each race got a new type of unit classification which would be described as a ranged ground to ground tank. Those units are as follows...

Roach------Free Wide Production (across all larvae)
Marauder--Restricted production (Tech Lab Outside of Reactor but only 50/50)
Immortal--Very Restricted Production (pays the most gas, 200 robo, no warp in)

Now if we look at the way each race makes defense, we can use the same Free, Partially Restricted, Heavily Restricted schematic, make an observation and then draw a conclusion.

Protoss - Photon Cannon - Free wide Production
Terran - Bunker and Missile Turret - Partially restricted also as marines are needed to fill the bunker
Zerg - ?????????????????? Totally free wide but totally restricted as you can sacrifice all drones for split role defense? Not right

In reality, it should say

Zerg - Colony Queen - The most heavily restricted defense as can only be made linearly by hatchery. Could still sacrifice a drone for a colony queen of course, however, going in to defensive spine or spore modes could have recyclable energy where exiting out of a static spine or spore mode could give the energy right back...

On the other hand, energy could regenerate fast enough to give a few casts between spine or spore mode but spawn larvae would have to cost quite a bit, or the defensive modes would have to cost pretty cheap if you wanted a role as odd as a mage casting defense....
 
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Now if zerg is not going to be properly restricted with their defense design, then the roach must be restricted to either Roach Queen larvae production, or only through the Larvae that queens spawn...

And because of that, roaches would probably have a natural ensnare effect with their attack to compare with the restricted production of marauders that stun their enemies.

Zerg play philosophy "Do not make units unless you are going to use them"

And beyond...

"Do not make units unless you are going to get kills" - Restricted Roach
 
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And this would make the game more fun how?

It makes the game more fun in regards to overlords actually getting used up for their carrying capacity.

That is one very great and prime example.

Overlords occupy larvae.... but what puts overlords on a level with a warrior or a drone in functional significance to the worker or warrior which gives them the right to interfere with zerg's production?

They can scout, and so zerg start with a natural scout. Well... that's not quite the viable significance that should justify larvae lords. You're probably going to scout with a drone anyways if you're playing for real....

In sc2 lords can put creep down... ok, that's starting to spark something...

One idea that I had in the past was to allow overlords to shoot zerglings as though they were ammo at the opponent. Nothing like a broodlord with an added base damage or anything. This would have just been to simply justify a lord that occupies larvae.

In the end, however, many zerg players at one point in time complained/proposed the idea that spine and spore crawlers should be capable of being loaded up in to overlords. It almost almost almost makes sense when you think about it... now you can use unit counters to enemy units intelligently to defend home base while you drop your defense on the enemy instead. Zerg is sacrificing larvae for that defense and for offense.

But they never put it in to the game because the spine and spore never quite qualified as a unit classification to do such a thing... why break the rules that much?

Queen drops are a bit of a joke, unless queens have a natural bonus damage to buildings.
 
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I think that my thread about thematics would definitely make the game more cool, and beautiful which in turn generates motivates and can result in "more fun" as you put...

The only idea I have come up with to make the game more fun is in regard to aiming for better E-sport worthy design.

I had an Idea for a different unit that could produce linearly at the hatchery and not cost a drone like a colony queen would. This unit would have feet or belly made of creep, be fast anywhere, but it would have a natural -1 armor as opposite to the queen's 1 armor.

It would be a more standard option of aggression for zerg, and you might always want to make 1 of them to get an offensive stance on the enemy before going in to colony queens since you would be taking more of a defensive stance naturally with drone sacrifice in to colony queen...

Get what I mean?

That's my best thoughts for getting towards making the game more fun.
 
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As far as thematically though, going back to the thread with the thematic Ideas... it would be cool to use all of one's workers at will, in warrior situations, out on the battlefield, considering that scvs and probes would now be warrior classified.

Scvs tanking in the front lines for marines

Probes shooting from a range behind zealots

Drones being mutated off as broodlings to co-function with queens

It's just epic and has a very free feeling of power to it.

But thematically, each power is different, but they are balanced by...

Reactive Quantity
Aggressive Quality
Positional Ability

Concepts.
 
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I'm telling you man, starcraft is something that resides in the hearts and imagination of children... What it was meant to be is in the logic of that passion....

We haven't even tasted "Fun" starcraft yet...
 

Dr Super Good

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to compare with the restricted production of marauders that stun their enemies
Marauders do not stun enemies. They fire "Concussion Shells" which slow their movement. Even that needs an upgrade.
And because of that, roaches would probably have a natural ensnare effect with their attack to compare with the restricted production of marauders that stun their enemies.
You are failing to realise that Marauders are anti-armored units. As such they are hard-counters for roaches as they deal high bonus damage to them. Roaches are actually meant to match up against marines as their toughness and damage is good at stopping marines. Hydralisks and zerglings hard-counter marauders.

As far as thematically though, going back to the thread with the thematic Ideas... it would be cool to use all of one's workers at will, in warrior situations, out on the battlefield, considering that scvs and probes would now be warrior classified.
They are workers, they are meant to die easily.

Please stop double posting and use the edit button.
 
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You're looking at specifics rather than looking at the big picture of reality.

A.) No one said anything about workers dying any less easily.

No one. Classifying as a warrior only means one thing... that attack upgrades are capable on the worker.

B.) Ensnare, slow, there's absolutely no reason to get technical about it. Were just trying to justify why the marauder has the concussion shells. Ah yes, because you cannot make 2 at once via reactor. Restrict roach production and they would have had an ensnaring effect to ensure kills. But these things are not the problem with the game. The problem with the game is only zerg's unrestricted defense and if that was addressed then zerg's free widespread production of roach would be fine as it is, and should be fine as it is.

C.) Koreans make the game an e-sport, and also more of a meta-poker game... To be aggressive, you got to keep your opponent thinking that you could all in at any time.

in other words, cheese is already very much a part of the game.

All ins, are very much a part of the game.

Dying easily doesn't mean that a unit is meant to die easy. Workers have an attack for a reason.
 

Dr Super Good

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Restrict roach production and they would have had an ensnaring effect to ensure kills. But these things are not the problem with the game. The problem with the game is only zerg's unrestricted defense and if that was addressed then zerg's free widespread production of roach would be fine as it is, and should be fine as it is.
The Zerg already have an ensnare unit, 2 infact.
The infestor's fungal spores not only does heavy AoE damage but also roots all afflicted units in place for the entire duration, including air units.
The Viper can abduct fleeing units to their death 1 by 1.

Also I could swear that currently the Zerg are highly competitive in high end play, to the point that many argue they are slightly more powerful than the other races.

Workers have an attack for a reason.
To stop one marine killing all your workers. Workers can defend themselves against a few units with acceptable losses but not against any form of army they might as well try their luck running around in circles.

Do remember that Blizzard is heavily revising melee once again for LotV. This includes the possibility for Roaches to receive an artillery form upgrade and for the Lurker to return.
 
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Ah yes, the infestor, the one unit that supports zerg's philosophy of play to the highest degree.

Zerg's key strength, in order to save as much larvae for their economy as possible, is parallel gas spending. Therfore, you want a single pop of mass produced infestors to output the greatest amount of parallel power with the fewest amount of larvae. This means, choose the highest gas costing unit.

And considering that this is mostly a timing power (Although terran have always had a problem spending their gas going back to broodwar) that timing has to be taken advantage of. And apparently it can be taken advantage of because you are almost guaranteed to get kills with the holding effect.

This is where the problem comes in...

Either

-Transfuse should restore mana to infestors to some degree. So that armies can be fought entirely and destroyed entirely with fungals so that zerg can get the necessary larvae.

or

-Infested marines should live, at least forever, on creep.

The concept of the infestor unlocking infested marines and ensnare at the same time was to use them together co-functionally...

Zerg either never have the amount of mana to do it, or the infested marine never last long enough so that's possible....


But that could be imbalanced in blizzard's eyes.

However... if you have drones that can mutate in to broodlings it would allow zerg to stay more focused on economy for a little bit longer and react more accurately with a simple pull off of drones from resources to work with the infestors.

The infestors have the hold.... move drones in to enemy as close as possible and then mutate to broodlings. (remember broodlings would slowly lose life off creep now to show their role for DESTROYING UNITS, not following through to destroy bases)

So the broodlings function with the fungal holds.

The brooding morph from the drones would questionably cost nothing and be instant. Questionably.

Think about the conceptualization though...

Reactive Quantity Strength

Protoss could have an aggressive quality strength with faster moving probes, ranged attacking probes to represent aggressive quality. Probes would have to stream minerals back to nexus with their range of course, but at the same rate of mineral return they have always had obviously.

Scvs would have the QUICK BUT NOT INSTANT transformation in to self constructed ground shooting turrets for 100 salvagable minerals for about the same quick transformation time which would be the duration of the current ROOT of spine/spore.

It represents Positional Ability

Terran could almost pull off that same concept as zerg with like marauders and scvs for example...

Except the scvs would almost need to get ahead in position or flank with the turret transformation to get a tactical surround with marauders.

Now I know that what I'm talking about seems like it could make the game too defensive.... but in reality it should be promoting more all in and follow through like play. Not sending all workers is not complete cheese though so that's nice...

I have a joke for you...

A baneling Self Destructs
An scv would Self Construct

But a high templar?

He Self Conducts (if storm restores shields of his own units that is)
 

Dr Super Good

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The concept of the infestor unlocking infested marines and ensnare at the same time was to use them together co-functionally...

Zerg either never have the amount of mana to do it, or the infested marine never last long enough so that's possible....
I thought they were planning to get rid of infested marines completely? I mean after all they are totally changing how the Swarm Host works...

Protoss could have an aggressive quality strength with faster moving probes, ranged attacking probes to represent aggressive quality. Probes would have to stream minerals back to nexus with their range of course, but at the same rate of mineral return they have always had obviously.

Scvs would have the QUICK BUT NOT INSTANT transformation in to self constructed ground shooting turrets for 100 salvagable minerals for about the same quick transformation time which would be the duration of the current ROOT of spine/spore.
Um... They are workers? They are not meant to be useable as military of any form and are meant to be weak.

If you give Protoss probes a range attack you have just made them win every single game against Zerg and Terran as now they can simply probe rush and always win since they have range so can kite and fight a lot more effectively.

Feel free to make your own mode demonstrating what you want, however I doubt it will be more balanced than the standard gameplay that has dozens of developers and thousands of testers balancing it.
 
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Barracks would unlock the ground shooting missile turret mode... that mode would have a time and cost, salvageable though...

If protoss probe rushed, terran could make barracks first... just like they always used to... and that would be the answer/counter. (DB required depot for barracks)

Zerg would have their colony queens naturally... remember colony was made pre pool... pre anything...

what unlocks a drone to be able to mutate in to broodling is Evolution Chamber

That way, the zergling rush is still in the game and if you're going to 6 or 7 pool... why not go all in anyways?

Send all drones with lings, mutate into broodlings...

If protoss thinks he can freely expand because he has ranged probes that move faster, he's got another thing coming...


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Unless it would be the other way around... engineering bay unlocking the turret so that terran could truly expand first as pointed out...

And then for zerg, spawning pool unlocking the broodlings..


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Getting rid of infested marines? After all this time?

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Yeah the evolution chamber would unlock spine /spore mode of queen, that makes the most sense by far....

Spawning pool unlocking static spine never made any sense....

That way, the robotics facility could unlock the ground shooting turret mode.


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Final thoughts here...

I notice that these ideas are addressing, most importantly, the nature of zerg's defense, and in turn, the nature of terran and protoss' defense.

As I said before though, I imagined an aggressive unit to be put in to the linear hatchery production options along side queen that would NOT cost a drone like the colony queen. it would have -1 armor but have feet or belly made of creep... shoot as a long ranged harasser, even further away then the probe.

This is to overcorrect the natural defensive direction that zerg would be taking by sacrificing drones at the hatchery for colony queens.

Protoss need a motivator to harass with probes, so the ability to warp back to nexus would be helpful to promote aggression....

If terran take the direction of engineering bay from the start, which is taking a defensive stance mostly as scv self constructing turret is mainly cheese if used offensively.... then there needs to be an aggressive option in there...

Scvs could weld other scvs together upon unlocking engineering bay making an scv snake that has a combined attack damage of all the scvs to the first scv of the snake

The whole line of scvs has a natural "Spirit Link" ability from warcraft 3, where all scvs take equal amount of damage at once....

This snake has bonus damage to buildings.


Ok, so my imagination got away with me, but I was trying to do something different other then a ranged harasser like the zerg unit idea, and what is already naturally built in to the probe....



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In further thought, I don't think that Terran or Protoss would need anything other than their warrior classifications and the faster ranged probe, and the fast 100 mineral cost transforming/salvageable scv.

My changes address zerg in 3 ways because zerg is really lacking the most in "legitimate options" I'll put it... That's where the Colony Queen comes in, but since zerg are now required to sacrifice a drone and step in the defensive direction so to speak with queens, there needs to be an option to make a glass harasser unit at the hatchery... And finally of course, drones mutating in to broodlings to support Reactive Quantity.

I think that the drones should be able to mutate in to those broodlings under ground while burrowed to create surprise ambushes....

I mean, that wouldn't need to be necessary since transforming in to broodlings would be instant... woops.

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Marines would counter the probe, and obviously work more effectively on zerglings....

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Ranged probes would be more effective against zerglings as opposed to marines I mean.
 
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