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Upcoming changes to skills and character models & new abilities

Discussion in 'Gaias Retaliation ORPG' started by Zwiebelchen, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Hello guys! Just to give you a preview about what to expect in the next major update:

    skill system revamp
    As you guys probably know, the skill system is kind of a one-trick pony and imho does not do what it is supposed to.
    To change that, the current skills will be replaced by these:

    Power: Increases attack power and spell power by 1% per point.
    Reflexes: Increase attack speed by 1.5% and spell haste by 1 per point.
    Luck: Increases crit chance by 1% and crit damage by 2% per point.
    Stamina: Increases maximum health by 1.5% per point. Increases Evasion by 0.5% per point.
    Spirit: Increases all resistances by 1% per point. Increases all attributes by 0.75% per point.

    In addition to the above changes, AGI will now grant attack speed bonus based on the same formula as haste, instead of providing a flat per-point bonus. This change will greatly reduce attack speed gain per point of agi for high agi characters.

    Max mana modifiers will now be equipment only. The CON and WIS effects on potions are gone. To compensate for that change, health potions will now heal slightly more. The significant reduction in AGI, STR and INT scores will weaken pets slightly, so their progression curves get altered to compensate for this change.
    A fixed amount of max health and max mana is now also gained for each level, depending on the selected class.


    New character models
    As you guys have probably seen in the other thread, I'm currently remaking all the hero models for compatibility with a swapped body texture approach. This allows me to use textures instead of attachment models to change the appearance of the heroes with equipment. There will still be attachment models for shoulders and cloaks, but the actual armor attachments will be gone. Only exception to this is the squire model, where the current attachment models will still apply, in order to save filesize (I felt that the current attachment models worked great on Squires). However, there will still be a texture swap based on the cloth textures underneath these armors for more added flavour.
    I've made tests on texture compression and optimized the texture bases and there should be no significant increase in filesize.

    In addition, hair will now be team colored with a color selectable on hero creation. There will also be a barber NPC in Mytargas that allows changing hair color afterwards.


    New abilities
    I've taken all suggestions into account and made major design decisions about several of the upcoming abilities. So here's a complete list about what is to come:

    Crusader

    Shield Throw
    Throws the shield at the target for Spellpower x 1.5 magic damage. Hits two more targets for half damage before returning to the caster. Creates a high amount of threat. Can only be used with a shield equipped.
    Cooldown: 12 seconds.
    Cast Time: 1.5 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 4

    Unyielding Zeal
    increases Attackpower by Strength x 0.25 and increases threat generated by 'Pummel' by 60%. Can not be used when 'Celestial Zeal' is active.
    Cooldown: 5 seconds.
    Cast Time: toggle.
    Mana Cost: none.

    Pummel
    Hits the target for Attackpower x 1.5 physical damage and debuffs the target with 'Shattered Defense', increasing all physical damage taken by 2%. Lasts 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Each applied stack resets duration.
    Cooldown: 8 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 3


    Berserker

    Intimidating Howl
    Causes all nearby enemies to run in fear for 4 seconds. Does not work on bosses. Effect breaks on attacks.
    Cooldown: 30 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 5

    Backhand
    Hits the target for Attackpower x 1.5 physical damage. If the Berserker evades a physical attack, cooldown will be resetted. Can only be used with a shield equipped. Creates a high amount of threat.
    Cooldown: 30 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 3

    Boiling Blood
    Increases Attackpower of the Berserker and all nearby allies by 25% for 10 seconds.
    Cooldown: 120 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: none.


    Bishop

    Protective Seal
    Your 'Heal' and 'Flash Heal' spells will now also heal the protected target by 30% of the amount healed. If the protected target is directly targeted by those spells, the amount healed is increased by 30%. Only one 'Protective Seal' can be up at the same time.
    Cooldown: 1 second.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 7

    Soul Eruption
    Deals Spellpower x 2.5 shadow damage to the target. Creates a high amount of threat.
    Cooldown: 12 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 4

    Dispel Magic
    Dispels harmful spell effects from friendly units.
    Cooldown: none.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 7


    Monk

    Shattering Strike
    Deals Spellpower x 1.5 magic damage to the target and all nearby units.
    Cooldown: 7 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 4

    Provoke
    Forces all nearby enemies to attack the Monk for 3 seconds.
    Cooldown: 30 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: none.

    Blazing Fist
    Increases attack speed by 70% and causes standard attacks to deal additional Spellpower x 0.25 fire damage for 3 seconds. Does not reset attack timer.
    Cooldown: 12 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 5


    Sorcerer

    Gravity Pull
    Creates a vortex on the ground for 7 seconds that slowly pulls all enemies within 350 range towards the center. When the vortex collapses, deals Spellpower x 2.5 physical damage and knocks back all targets within 100 range of the center. Enemies with immunity to stun effects are not affected by the gravitational pull or knockback effect.
    Cooldown: 20 seconds.
    Cast Time: 1.5 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 18

    Ice Nova
    Deals Spellpower x 0.5 water damage and stuns all units near the caster for 2 seconds.
    Cooldown: 15 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 12

    Nether Walk
    Instantly travels towards the target point. If the direct path between the caster and the target is not walkable, the caster will be moved to the closest walkable point instead.
    Cooldown: 10 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 6


    Necromancer

    Possession
    The Necromancer gains permanent control over the target unit until it dies. While possessing a creature, the Necromancer can not control any regular minions except for mercenaries. The possessed creature keeps all abilities and will use them as usual. Unlike regular minions, the possessed creature does not scale with pet levels. It also has its maximum health reduced to 50%.
    Can not be used on bosses or elite targets. Can not be used on targets with a higher level as the Necromancer. Killing a possessed creature does not grant experience or loot.
    Cooldown: 60 seconds.
    Cast Time: 8 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 75

    Dark Funnel
    Deals Spellpower x 1.0 shadow damage per second over 3 seconds.
    Cooldown: 0.5 seconds.
    Cast Time: 3 seconds, channeled.
    Mana Cost: 6

    Vile Desease
    Deals Spellpower x 3.0 shadow damage over 18 seconds. Any physical attacks against the debuffed target also have a 20% chance to deal additional Spellpower x 0.3 shadow damage. Does not stack.
    Cooldown: 20 seconds.
    Cast Time: 2 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 8


    Hunter

    Frost Arrow
    Instant ranged attack, dealing Attackpower x 2.0 water damage and slowing the target for 5 seconds.
    Cooldown: 10 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 6

    Summon Falcon
    Summons a falcon minion that has a 20% chance to strike the target of the hunter's standard attacks for Attackpower x 1.5 physical damage. The falcon can not be targetted or killed. Falcon attacks create no threat.
    Cooldown: 0.5 seconds.
    Cast Time: 3 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 25

    Explosive Load
    All standard attacks will deal additional Attackpower x 0.4 fire damage within 200 range of the target for 5 seconds. Does not reset attack timer.
    Cooldown: 25 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 14


    Druid

    Life Infusion
    Brings a dead ally back to life with full health and 30% mana.
    Cooldown: 180 seconds.
    Cast Time: 3 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 30

    Spiritual Guidance
    Standard attacks now also deal Spellpower x 0.4 poison damage to the target. Consumes 3 mana per attack.
    Cooldown: 5 seconds.
    Cast Time: toggle.
    Mana Cost: none.

    Balance of Life
    25% of effective damage dealt to the target ally is transferred to the Druid instead. Lasts 30 seconds.
    Cooldown: 30 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: none.


    Assassin

    Explosive Trap
    Places a trap on the ground that deals Attackpower x 1.5 fire damage upon activation and stuns the target for 6 seconds. Half duration against bosses or elite units. Can only be used outside of combat. Setting up the trap will cancel stealth mode.
    Cooldown: 45 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 6

    Quick Strike
    Deals Attackpower x 0.5 physical damage to the target and increases the chance to score a critical hit against the target by 2%. Lasts 20 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Each applied stack resets duration.
    Cooldown: 6 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 2

    Shadow Image
    Creates a shadow image with the same stats as the Assassin. The shadow image will be first priority target of all enemies around. Does not have any other abilities. Lasts 5 seconds.
    Cooldown: 40 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 8


    Bard

    Hymn of Heroes
    All allies within sight range will have their maximum health increased by 20% for 30 seconds. Can only be used with an instrument equipped.
    Cooldown: 25 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 5

    Dancing Blade
    The next standard attack will deal additional Spellpower x 1.5 magic damage and apply 'Battle Rhythm' to the Bard. Stacks up to 3 times. Does not reset attack timer.
    Cooldown: 5 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: 2.

    Chorus
    Consumes all stacks of 'Battle Rhythm' and heals all allies within sight range for Spellpower x 2.0 for each stack of 'Battle Rhythm' consumed. Can only be used with an instrument equipped.
    Cooldown: 3 seconds.
    Cast Time: instant.
    Mana Cost: none.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  2. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    Wow this might make me actually return to warcraft 3 to play something lol, great job as always zwieb :p
     
  3. S0ulseeker

    S0ulseeker

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    I can't wait :]
     
  4. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    I like almost all of these spells and I definitely like the stat changes. They will, hopefully, provide us with a more varied same class outcome than currently.

    The only thing I don't like is the necromancer. It seems that, even with possession, the necromancer will still be a boring class with nothing special to offer. Sure, you have minions, but all you can really do with them is Attack/retreat and the necro himself has very little to do other than spamming fireball/water globes and once in a while setting a debuff on an enemy. Personally I think, given the theme of the necromancer, some health sacrificing based spells would be great. Maybe drain some hp from one's own minions? Or transfering the necro's hp to them? Or perhaps a powerful damage spell that is only useable with less than 100% hp. Also, whereas every other class has some sort of protection against dying, the necro, when aggro is (easy as it is) taken from the minions, has no way to protect himself. Given the fact that the minions, while doing decent dmg, are clumsy because of the inability to control them without cancelling the current action of the necromancer it is a painful class to play. This is also one of the reasons why I previously suggested to add the attack/retreat commands to the backpack for improved multi-functionality.

    The bottomline is that while every other class (even the sorceress that has until these (very cool spells) have been added been quite boring) is very fun and varied to play, the necro seriously lacks these two key factors for making a good class.
     
  5. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    You shouldnt change names of str agi int con wis since yourself continued to referr to them with their original name, ITS NOT GONNA WORK! :D

    Are hat attachments still there as well ? Can you show us fe. some pictures of the new method with the old ones next for comparison.

    No to boomerang shuriken shields because anime territory :p
    How exactly does Intimidating Howl, Gravity Pull and Posession interact with aggro mechanic ?
    Netherwalk, what a fancy name for teleportation. Spiritual Guidance is also a weird name for an ability that is used for dealing poison dmg.
    Id expect more creative things at casters than even more direct dmg with different applications aka 'Dark Funnel' or 'Soul Eruption'.
    At Falcon, what use is it when not attacking, idles circling above head ?
    Oh, rambo's explosive arrows. Approveds
    At Balance of Life: what means 'effective dmg'. Does it mean transferred after gets reduced by linked's armor/resist ?
    So with dancing blade + chorus a bard can keep healing basically forever and he can choose himself high or low burst ?
     
  6. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    I'm not quite sure what exactly you feel is missing about the necromancer. I think it's pretty unique in its focus on minions and possession alone is a skill that makes it worth playing. Possession is probably the most versatile spell in the entire game, if you think about the possibilities. You basicly have every debuff or ability that is used by outside world mobs at your disposal.
    You can possess a healing creep, to support yourself and the group; you can possess one of the mountain bears to get an awesome meat shield, you can possess a spell caster for more buffs/debuffs/utility (remember the murlocs that have a stun or the goblins that throw flaming bottles?). And you gain access to skills that are creep exclusive, like the murloc haste reduction.

    With enough creativity, possession will be one of the most fun spells at your disposal.

    I don't have any ingame screenshots yet, as most of the model reworks have not been completed until this point. As soon as I get some presentable media, I'll upload it here.

    Intimidating Howl basicly disables the possibility to give orders to affected units temporarily. Basicly the same as pets work in Gaias; you have no command card and the smart order gets overwritten. There's no change to the threat table whatsoever for this ability.
    Gravity pull does just move the units towards its center. It does not cancel any orders or interrupt spells/attacks. If the units walk faster than the pull effect, technically, they can leave the area of effect. No change on threat table here again.
    Possession basicly regards the unit as killed (and therefore to be allowed to respawn), except that you do not gain experience, gold or loot.

    It's technically not teleportation, just very very fast moving (hence the hero stops when the pathing is blocked).
    Maybe I'll change it to do lightning damage. I just felt there are too few poison abilities in the game yet.

    Those spells aren't very creative, I agree, but they serve a destinct core purpose for those classes that did not allow for a unique design.

    Yes.

    Correct. The transferred damage also can't be reduced by armor/resistance from the druid again (however, absorbs like Divine Shield do work on linked damage).

    Chorus is meant as a situational group support heal. With the cooldown on dancing blade and Chorus only healing a significant amount when there's at least 2 stacks of dancing blade, you should not be able to main-heal a tank in a difficult encounter. It's more a group emergency utility. I expect there'll be a lot of fine-tuning on Chorus in order to not make it too weak or overpowered in the future.
    There's also more abilities to come in the future that might make use on dancing blade stacks.
     
  7. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    The problem with necromancer as I see it, is two things:

    1. He is, both currently and with the new spells, just a generic spellcaster with some minions thrown in randomly. He has no interaction with these minions at all. This feels too much like average joe randomly has three behemoths following him and obeying his attack orders for no apparent reason - in short, not very coherent.

    2.Therefore he needs interaction spells. Spells that have something to do with the minions. Now don't get me wrong, he ALSO needs simple damage spells, but I think that the whole necromancer theme needs to be explored further to make it an interesting class.
     
  8. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Well make some suggestions for Necromancer spells then. But they shouldn't involve mana regeneration or means to replenish mana, significant threat reduction in group play (having minions to deal the damage for you is already enough advantage with the current threat mechanics) or be group heals aside from the dedicated talent path that provides some group regen.
     
  9. grekern

    grekern

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    How about a channeling spell that deal more and more damages over time, but it also drains your health more and more the longer you channel. If you can survive the entire channeling period you could add a second effect on your minions, like they get hp restored, bonus armor/resists or a temporary SP/attack damage buff.
     
  10. 0.mY.g0d

    0.mY.g0d

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    Lot of nice new Features! But for me there is too much influence of other games, too...


    Pummel - Final Fantasy 6

    Intimidating Howl - Priests Fear of WoW?!

    Gravity Pull - Final Fantasy (same effect, different Name)

    Nether Walk, Possession - Effects sounds quite Dota-like

    Shadow Image - WC3 Blademaster ability/Dota

    Shield throw, the wannabe Captain America - Sounds for me like a strength dependant ability...as it is intended to depend on spellpower you should perhaps make it more kinda "magic" related. Like the shield being charged with holy energy soaring through enemy lines.

    Dispel Magic - Hasn't got Mage dispell too?

    just my 2 Cents.
     
  11. Kyuzo_dono

    Kyuzo_dono

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    "Power" -> spellpower???!?!
    "Luck" -> Crit?!?
    "Stamina" -> Health??!!!
    Bishop -> Needs an even more amount of aggro?
    ...
    *Poker Face*... holy f... Ctrl+W
     
  12. doubtful

    doubtful

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    A totally meaningless comment. I really dont want to comment further.
     
  13. water_Knight

    water_Knight

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    Necromancers are fine as it is. I play a nerco heck it is all i play. Don't ruin necro!!!

    Possess will be the best skill in the game period.

    If anything get rid of Dark Funnel and give them a new summon!!! Skeleton Archer.
     
  14. exoe

    exoe

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    I've skimmed through first post quickly and I like most what I saw, most classes will have some tough choices to make when getting rid of spells. In some cases spells will only be worth getting with a certain talent tree or another spell to go in a combo, seems quite interesting like Preservation and Balance of Life.

    This may be asking too much, but I would be really happy if you added some class-specific quests like the ones Gaia's Retaliation Part I to get these spells or have it as a prerequisite. I'm not sure if you or war3 editor has the necessary resources for that but anything close to that experience would be great.

    Oh and Crusader's "Pummel" and Monk's "Shattering Strike" spell names should be switched/changed 'cause Monk is the one attacking with fists. :p
     
  15. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Zwie I already made some suggestions for necro spells. The life drain on minions and life transfer to minions, but anyway:

    Other ideas include:
    Mark of Horror: Single target friendly buff. All enemies will avoid attacking the buffed target as long as there are other targets for them to attack nearby. Can also be self cast. Lasts for 4 seconds. Aggro will not be reduced by the effect, simply ignored for the duration. 60 seconds cooldown. Low mana cost.

    Reanimation: Self-buff. When used, the necromancer's max hp is reduced by 50% for the duration of the buff. When the necromancer is killed while under the effect of the buff, he is, after two seconds, ressurrected with all threat removed and 100% hp and 50% mana. Buff lasts 15 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. No mana cost.

    Curse of Boiling Blood: Curses an enemy unit or an allied hero including self-cast with increased damage taken by physical attacks by 20%. The attack speed of the target is, however, also increased by X x level and its spell haste increased by X x Level. Lasts 10 seconds. Costs 5 mana. (The idea here is to use it on enemies that need to be taken down quickly and preferably while they are stunlocked. Otherwise it can act as a buff on dps). Cooldown: 30 seconds.

    Vampiric Touch: Only affects targets under the effect of Mark of the vampire. When used on a target with less than 30 % hp left, 25% of the target's remaining hitpoints are transfered to the necromancer. If the target has 10% hp left or less, the target's hitpoints are tranfered to the necromancer and it instantly dies. On bosses this instead deals 2x spell damage to bosses below 30% and 5x Spell dmg as shadow damage to bosses below 10%.

    Aura of Despair: All enemies within medium range of the necromancer have attack speed and spell haste moderately reduced for the duration of the spell. All necromancer minions have their attack speed and spell haste increased. Lasts 6 seconds. Channelling. Mana cost: medium. Cooldown: 40 seconds.

    Curse of Corruption: cast on a friendly target. Any enemy that attacks the buffed target with melee attacks is afflicted by the Corruption disease. This disease deals 3x shadow dmg to them over 10 seconds and reduces their shadow resistance by 50%. The buff lasts 8 seconds.

    Necrophilic transmogrification (hehe funny name): The necromancer transforms into a lich. While in this form Shadow resistance is increased by 40. All other resistances reduced by 20. Armor increased by X x Level. All shadow damage dealt increased by ??% (quite a lot, but perhaps a fixed percentage). All minions rapidly regenerate hp and mana. Movement speed of the necromancer reduced a little. Lasts 12 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds. Mana cost: high.

    Dissolution: Deals X x spell power Fire damage over 10 seconds. If the target dies within the effect, it explodes and its remains are flung into nearby enemies dealing X spell power physical damage. The spell is channelling. Mana cost: Low. Cooldown: 6 seconds. (Here the point is that the channeling part doesn't deal better damage than more direct single target necro spells. The real reason for using this spell is the great aoe damage if the target dies.)

    Ghost Armor: Activate/deactivate spell. The necromancer takes on the form of an ethereal being. He is immune to all physical attacks, but the shield rapidly drains his mana. The spell does not affect aggro and enemies who are aggroed by the necromancer will continue to attack him even if their attacks are physical and deal no damage. The necromancer cannot himself use normal attack, but can still cast spells. (Here the idea is that the mana drain should be very consuming. Sure, you can survive for 6-8 seconds or something, but then you'll have no mana left and will be useless. Therefore it is based around emergency situations of all sorts. Also keep in mind that it can be deactived at any time, perhaps with a 2 second minimum to prevent abuse.). Cooldown 20 seconds.

    The numbers I have provided are to be taken lightly, the overall idea of each spell is what is important here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  16. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Yeah I always had some talents in mind when I made those ability ideas. I think it will allow for some pretty unique new playstyles, especially the STR crus or the tanking zerker with shields.

    It's definitely not impossible. However, the "work in, use out" formula is quite distorted here. This basicly means I'd have to create 10 totally unique quests, but only 1 quest will be playable by the player.
    This is no problem when making games as a team and having the manpower to do that, but for me as a single person making this map, it's not really an option.

    Yeah, maybe right.

    Hmm... I don't really see how those suggestions improve on the spellcaster-y feel of the necromancer. There isn't any real interaction added between the minions and the master on these suggestions. I don't regard semi-passive buffs to minions a real contribution to the problem the necromancer has.


    However, I like the idea of an "anti taunt" ability. I might add it in the future.
     
  17. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Btw also check the ghost armor I just added.

    Ps. another idea:
    Conjure Flesh: The necromancer conjures a corpse (model could be: villager/bandit/villager woman or maybe zombie) at target point. The corpse can either be used for skeleton feed or corpse explosion. (The corpse is not a dead unit in the editor. It is a living unit playing dead animation.) It should only be targetable by corpse explosion and necromancer minions. The corpse 'dries out' (is removed) after 10 seconds (with some special effect to hide the fact that there isn't an animation for its death in game :) )

    Feast of the Cadaver: Spell with aoe target (the nearest corpse to the aoe circle will be selected). Orders all melee skeletons to consume the flesh of a nearby corpse. This works for both conjured and real corpses. The effects are different, however. Feasting on real corpses grants healing. Feasting on conjured corpses increases Attack power, attack speed and movement speed for 10 seconds. It takes up to 8 seconds to receive full hitpoints or 5 seconds for the conjured corpse buff. (I'm not sure it is possible to trigger the effect both working for real corpses like Cannibalize and also working for the other effect. But I suppose the master of coding Zwiebelchen can do it.)
     
  18. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    It's possible, but it's not really a useful addition to the Necromancer skillset.
    I highly doubt anyone would sacrifice an important ability for that. There's simply more important stuff to take with the 9 abil restriction.
     
  19. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Perhaps. Although with the right numbers, anything can prove useful. Also, the necro lacks survivability. Now, the sorceress will get a teleport and slowing abilities, while the necro still has no way of surviving in emergency situations. Every other class has this one way or another.
     
  20. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    i don't recommend adding possession into the game unless the spells come nerfed to the user because else you would have to nerf mobs so those spells aren't overpowered when controlled by the user (and thus making the game a lot easier which is not the optimal thing to do), dota has and had many problems because of enchant and they only got a couple of creeps with spells, think of that on a massive scale when having to balance it around also in not making it overpowered (consider that if it's too strong or too weak it'll either be not picker or always picked for dungeons) and not only that but also consider that there might be a spell (as there always is) that's preffered over the rest thus making the spell kinda useless.