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Stop the CASC madness

Discussion in 'Patch Discussion' started by Selaya, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Selaya

    Selaya

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    Simple thread, as the title says.
    Stop this asinine CASC madness that's coming with 1.30, please revert to the tried-and-true MPQ format and start using
    war3patch.mpq
    again (keep
    war3.mpq
    and
    war3x.mpq
    contents identical through the patches to not have the patcher redownload the entire client), don't make all the modders and their tools rely on old patches (even more).

    Thank you.
     
  2. Velmarshal

    Velmarshal

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    Seconded. The drawbacks far outweigh the benefits.
     
  3. DatBoi

    DatBoi

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    Do I sign here or what
     
  4. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Fun times...
     
  5. actboy168

    actboy168

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    I agree.
     
  6. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    @Retera You have been summoned.
     
  7. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Can't you bypass this by just putting the .mpq files in your 1.30 directory manually.
    Textures are not updated anyway so you can just bring a copy over from 1.24 or something.
    I still have a second warcraft 3 installation to access some JNGP features so for me this would not be a problem.

    Same for others, probably.

    Modders always find a way.
     
  8. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I think the idea is to be able to mod the game on whichever patch version it is not be forced to keep older versions which over time might not be compatible with newer versions.
     
  9. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    In which case you could update the mpq manually.

    Is it ideal? no

    But it wont end model viewers/editors, as some people may think
     
  10. Retera

    Retera

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    Where I see the issue is that new people wouldn't be able to join the modding community with this "don't you just have the old version?" idea.
    For example, if a relative of mine who played the game in 2008 redownloads the game from his linked Battle.net CD key now, after 10 years, on a totally new computer, and then asks me for tips on how to make a model, I don't want to tell him, "Well, you can't, you didn't back up your game client in 2008 like I did"

    Obviously I'm in a position like several others, where the modding software that I use and that I write will keep working on my computer one way or another. But it seems to me that there is a social benefit for it to be able to work on anybody's computer who has Warcraft III installed. Several have told me to port the CascView lib to Java for my Java model editor. Generally, they are right that this is the way to go forward. But during the time that I do so (I'm a hobbyist, so it might be slow) I foresee a "blip" in the set of available WC3 Model Viewer software for the average user.

    Ghostwolf's online viewer is beautiful, and will keep working here on the Hive, but after someone downloads a model they might wish to view it again. And, many of the highest rated models use in-game textures. So, in my opinion, Blizzard would be doing us a big favor if they released a mini Model Viewer EXE with the game's own code for 3-6 months while the community catches up with CASC.
    It could be that I'm too much of an old timer, and that the average users are only going to browse custom models on the Hive itself and in the Warcraft III world editor -- and both of those will keep working fine, for certain.

    I messaged one of the recent Blizzard hires from the Hive about this idea, and his response was:

    I love his optimism, but as the one working on my software, I'm painfully aware of the things that Magos has that it currently lacks (rendering particle emitters, animated textures, the ability to edit almost everything in the model in simple dialogues). To get work done faster, it might be time for me to do a better job actually embracing the power of open source and getting others to contribute to the "matrix eater" codebase.
     
  11. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    More likely, a mod would put an up to date mpq in the magos' thread.
    So it would be an extra download, an annoying one though.

    Personally, I never 'look' at models through magos, the only reason I have it downloaded is to check which textures a model use.
    Scenario: I download a model pack with custom texture, but I only want one of the models.
    In which case I load up magos to check which textures it uses and the path they should be imported to

    So to me, a mere viewer would not be enough, sadly
     
  12. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    @Chaosy Isn't there a simple little program, already available on the Hive, which does that? "MDXPather"?
     
  13. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Oh? never heard of it before
     
  14. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    @Retera was just telling me about it...
     
  15. Retera

    Retera

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    Mdx Pather

    This tool does not use game files, and will always work, regardless of MPQ vs CASC. But it might help you for what you were talking about
     
  16. Frotty

    Frotty

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    Oh dear. First the updater fiasco and now this... Really?
     
  17. Retera

    Retera

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    Hey, Frotty, you do stuff with Warcraft + Java, right? Do you feel a necessary for a Java CASC lib, too? What are you likely to do about that?
    I know at one point I think I mentioned trying to work together or share code between some of the stuff you do and the Matrix Eater codebase that I've kept using for several years, and you didn't like the idea because you found the Matrix Eater's codebase to be unprofessional. I agree that portions are unprofessional, to an extent, but I never made the time to rework stuff that I wrote in high school.
    Despite all that, should we be working on a Java CASC lib together somehow?
     
  18. Frotty

    Frotty

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    Publicly misquoting me from a PM seems a bit odd - I never called it unprofessional (iirc), simply unusable as dependency in it's form at the time, due to not using a dependency manager, no unit tests, no CI etc.
    I'm always eager to share code - but due to the state of your repositories this didn't seem easy. I would suggest collecting java wc3 filehandling in inwc3/wc3libs - I'm not sure about the coverage of topics with this your and JWc3libs, but if you have stuff to add, we can work on a PR together.

    Regarding CASC, imo this should also be a separate library like mpq handling, and probably ported from ladislav-zezula/CascLib
    Unless you feel like writing it from scratch - I don't really :D
    If you want to port casclib or whip up something custom, I could help you out, especially regarding using it as a dependency :)
     
  19. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Build an MPQ<->Casc converter/adapter :D
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I don't want to be forced to install further programs like Java to be able to run Warcraft III or something for it. I don't remember installing anything to be able to use Magus.