Starcraft II and The Hive

[GST_Nemisis]

blizzard doesnt need any more money. i think ($15 X 8,000,000) - (server running costs + a few GMs salaries) is enough for anyone.

 

[PurplePoot]

It's not like they get 100% of the profits -- they don't host the servers alone, as far as I know. They probably wouldnt've been able to afford getting all those servers in the days before WoW.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

They have enough money perhaps, but its a BUISNESS, buisness' exist to MAKE money not lose money, and unfortunatly if they release SC2 sooner then 3 years (when WoW MIGHT (probably wont)) die from the subscribers getting bored they are both stupid, and will lose mass profits

 

[Shados]

Uhhhh...... Riiiiiight. Firstly the game is almost done already, secondly where'd you get the idea you'd have to pay for SC2 per month? Thirdly, why the hell do you think they'd lose money by making Starcraft II? The entire population of Korea will buy SC2.

-*meow*

 

[Ratherion]

Point, game, match.

 

[SuPa-]

don't forget Japan, Shados
Japan worships Blizzard

The thing about blizzard making a SC2 is that it's completely worth it. They make it once, and then copy it off to millions of disks that cost lbarely any, and sell the games for 60$ each.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Sc2 might cost money to play online, atleast Blizzard haven't answered the questions that have been asked on that subject but avoided it which is a bit odd if it was free, right?

 

[Ratherion]

Well not really, I mean thats Blizzard's style, they have offered ALL of their other games for free online [exepting WoW, of course], many many people would be dissapointed if it was pay-per-month, although I would do it anyway. Plus with Sc2, it may even be more customizable then TFT, which as you must know allows for an INCREDIBLE amount of power. And even if Sc2 does not bring in MASSIVE profits, its not like people are going to quit WoW.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

its not like people are going to quit WoW.

exactly, just because its by the same company doesnt mean they are going to quit one game to all join another.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

I'm going to assume about half of Korea plays WoW, so in 4 months, WoW's Korean support covers that. EVERYONE would by SC2, but that isn't enough

SC2 WOULD drag people away from WoW, there is no denying that, and unless SC2 is 15 dollars a month, blizzard is stupid if they release SC2 before WoW dies.

YES, alot of people would BUY SC2, but almost just as many would quit WoW, and unless SC2 is 15 dollars a month, they would lose mass profits, as WoW is 6 million+ x 15 dollars a month, Starcraft will be 60 dollars, once.

Instead of you buying SC2, they would rather you go play WoW. The point is ALOT of people would switch from WoW to SC2 and that will hurt blizzard's income greatly, so I repeat they are stupid if they don't wait till WoW dies, which will probably be about 2-3 years or so, and probably longer cause with patches they can still add more stuff, this may sound far-fetched but this is what happened to the original WoW, there kept on getting more stuff added, and it didn't die. (run-on sentances ftw)

I'm sad that this is probably the way this is going to take several years, but if it isn't then blizzard wouldn't have ever owned a business if it was to lose money, you just don't do it.

Also SC:Ghost was almost just as big as SC2, it was the revival of SC, and it was gonna be FPS, it wasn't as big, but it still was pretty big.

Guys people WILL leave WoW, you can not deny that, you can't, and as you guys said, ALOT of people will buy SC2, but in the long run, WoW will make MORE money then SC2 would, before WoW died from getting boring, which is why if blizzard has ANY smarts they wont release SC2 until WoW dies, like Warcraft3 is starting to now.

And Ratherion Blizzard INITIALLY intended to charge you for Battle.net as I said, but not enough people would do that. It is a new age now, 6 MILLION people are paying 15 dollars a month for WoW, so whats it to them if they pay for SC2? The ONLY way blizzard will release SC2 before WoW dies, is if they charge 15-20 dollars a month, ONLY WAY, or else as I have said it would result in loss of mass profits on blizzard's behalf OVER A FEW MONTHS, SC2 would clearly outsell WoW on the first 3 months or so, but WoW would have made more money in a year then SC2 will, unless, I repeat WoW is dead before SC2 is released

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Starcraft and WoW are 2 completely different games, most of the people playing WoW would never quit it to go full-time ladder on a RTS, just because you are Korean it does not mean you love Starcraft.

 

[Gizmo III]

I downloaded the demo gameplay movie on the Starcraft 2 website, and it looks really great.. I would definently start modding Starcraft 2 if it became possbile..

 

[The_wand_mirror]

there are many things to consider:

1. will the people on this site want it to be sc2 and wc3?
2. will it be shared between sc2 and wc3 or mainly one/the other.
3. will sc2 maps be hosted?
4. is there enough space on Ralles rented server to have many more maps?
5. if not will the wc3 maps section be cut down?
6. will the game be popular enough to attract enough new people to get donations for a self sustaining server?
7. will sc2 be any good?
8. will the forums be re-arranged? Ralle has spend alot of time (years now, literally) getting this site to how it is now. a big change around of the forums and the resouces might be very time consuming and hard work.

there are probably more things to take into account but i know thes are important.-

i suggest

1. Split the site into War3 and SCII .. then it will become even bigger
2. shared
3. in the SCII part
4. Lets hope so, or probably with SCII Being totaly infested on release with SCI fans we could hope they come here and join us in the SCII section and then donate at paypal?
5. No comment
6. I think it will.. SC was immense as i may believe.. but wc3 made it up to the top .. now that SCII is comming blizzard is able to create a wc3 like game again, with the same addiction perhaps..
7. Blizzard = God, dont question they're powers ever again!
8. More administrators working on the splitting of the site?.. maybe a admin for the war3 part (Ralle) and a admin for the SCII part and all the others worked together with that admin are made moderators so they can manage the SCII part..

 

[Deckboy]

where did you get that info from??

read my quote carefully. . .

I repeat. . .
"I do >cough<BELIEVE>cough< they'd make it possible to incorporate heroes into the system. . ."

What I mean is that if the power of the warcraft III engine is any clue as to what it's able to do (I made a shooter with it for crying out loud) then I'm pretty sure something as simple as heroes could be done in the next engine.(since Blizzard has a habit of continuously making their engines better and more powerful)

Whether it be via triggers, object data. . .or maybe something else that we've never had in a Blizzard engine before. . .who knows?

-Deck

 

[GST_Nemisis]

geeez another essay, well im fairly sure the largest market for wow is north america. the largest market for starcraft is korea. i think your assumption is wrong.there is a website on the net which explains it all and i think thast what it said about wow, i knwo in china they all play eve online or something. but the basic message was that wow is mostly a western thing.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

I still stand by my fact that Blizzard is gonna lose money if they release SC2 anytime soon, unless its pay to play.

However, SC2 might be more modifiable but I doubt they will add heroes, there is not a single hero icon, so unless they're gonna add it last-minute its the end of heroes, and a big thank god for me, heroes added a very stupid part in warcraft III, when you get one 400 gold hero, killing 1000 gold worth of units, something is wrong. Also heroes became a neccesity, you needed a hero to win in warcraft, if they add heroes in SC I hope they're actually pretty shitty. Heroes lessen the skill of a game, also DotA fan's will be getting pissed off, so I still say a no to heroes.

If Ralle ever needed room, I am sure there would be alot of people willing to donate for a site that supports SC2, I mean look at wc3campaigns, the name has wc3 in it, it doesn't feel like it would support SC2, which leaves the hive probably the biggest english SC2 modding site if it ever went that way

 

[GST_Nemisis]

I still stand by my fact that Blizzard is gonna lose money if they release SC2 anytime soon, unless its pay to play.

do you have a degree in marketing from havard with advanced business techniques and product development skills? coz someone at blizzard does, and if they think SC2 is a good idea then i guess it doesnt matter.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

Well then they know something I don't or I am right, as they haven't officially announced a release date, and it doesn't take a whole bunch of degrees to know that if your going to take people off your main source of income for a lesser income, you ARE indeed going to release money

 

[Teh_Ephy]

lol... okay then let me explain something to you. people WILL leave WoW to try out SCII. then they will come back, because they are MMO whores, and as such mostly suck @ RTS games. let's pretend that blizzard gets 100% of what SCII's retail price, that means that blizzard has made a bunch of people play ~$60 for a game people will only be playing for about two months.

that's $30 per person that they will gain from SCII, and that's ONLY IF people completely swear off WoW, which they won't, because they'll only be trying SCII out, and won't want to create a new account because they haven't been on in 2 months. so then Blizzard gains 60$ from SCII, not to mention they get a huge load taken off of WoW servers for maybe 2 months, because of so many inactive accounts (that people are still paying for).

in that 2 months, they have a fantastic window of opportunity to execute swift, consequential changes to WoW's lore/factions/whatever to sucker people back into WoW if they weren't going to return, make their return to WoW faster if they were going to return, or sucker new people into WoW. does that make good business sense?

oh by the way,

there is not a single hero icon

they're bordered in white, they look like the normal ones

 

[KaboomMaster]

Well the fact of the matter is Blizzard isnt stupid

1.WoW will most likely die soon because you can only PvP 30,000 times, go on raids 2,000 times and reach lvl 70 30 times before you question if it is really worth it plus alot of WoW players I know are starting to quit because of this reason and/or they or their parents are tired of paying and Blizz knows if they make another expansion for WoW the new gamers who arent RPG whores will prob no want to spend another $60 and will quit

2.Why the hell would Blizzard announce Starcraft2 if they were going to pull a Starcraft:Ghost or a Duke Nukem:Forever it would be stupid for them because grafix would be outdated and people would begin to lose interest

but: the real Q we arent considering is what will the editer be like

1.the original SC editor was a peice of crap and when they say that it will have great tools you must remember that Blizzard says when World Editor starts up that they dont directly support it so for all we know we are assuming that the word "great" means better than/equal to WC3 editor for all we know great is a relative term and we might be stuck with another SC editor that had few features

2.we dont even know if they will let imports and if they do we have to remember that this is new grafix and everything so we dont know it the modelling and skinning programs will be usable and many lower skilled modellers might not want to buy a new program

3.the file sizes for models and maps for SC2 might be large and we dont know if we can fit resources that would be made like the amount on the now dead War3sear.ch and moderators might be forced to deleate WC3 stuff for room or even remove SC2 stuff they deem to large or a pointless waste of space in which many people would get pissed

so i think that until Blizz actually tells editor stuff the info we already have is next to use less except know that Toss is currently rigged (rofl 1 mothership destroyes base and 3 Battlecruisers plus sucks three more into a black hole) and also knowing Immortals are cool as hell

 

[PrinceofIce]

Mothership only owns if used correctly.Plus they cheated the energy for black hole otherwise the mothership woulda been screwed.

 

[KaboomMaster]

yup it was ownage i will agree I CANT WAIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kimbo]

1.WoW will most likely die soon because you can only PvP 30,000 times, go on raids 2,000 times and reach lvl 70 30 times before you question if it is really worth it plus alot of WoW players I know are starting to quit because of this reason and/or they or their parents are tired of paying and Blizz knows if they make another expansion for WoW the new gamers who arent RPG whores will prob no want to spend another $60 and will quit

Its dying yet over the past year it gained half a million players? okay....

 

[KaboomMaster]

ok how many times are you going to get to lvl 70 before u r bored and expasions are another 60 bucks outta your pocket and it still doesnt diminish reason #2

 

[Kimbo]

You ever played Wow? There are other things to do when you reach your level cap.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

Blizzard might mean "Outstanding Editor" compared to SC's but it probably won't be all that much more advanced then WC3's, but my question is, will the editor use jass, or will there be another scripting system

 

[Kimbo]

Wc3s WE took me awhile to get use to. Im sure it wont be too complex like..black and white 2s one..so many parameters :X

 

[Teh_Ephy]

i believe a lot of WoW content is specifically aimed at level 70 players, to keep them playing. because yeah, just hitting L 70 a few times would be kind of empty.

P.S: Mothership? is it in the gameplay vid? i haven't seen it yet ='(

 

[KaboomMaster]

we still arent adressing main things #s 1-3 if your going to babbel about WoW stop being hippocritical andpost in a WoW thread or (im might sound like a fag) STOP GIVING COMPLAINS WHEN COMMUNITY POST OFF TOPICS ALOT!

(sry if i sounded like a fag)

 

[Ratherion]

Allow me to attempt to make an on-topic post:

I belive that when Starcraft 2 does come out, it will impact the hive positively. There is a very small percentage (maybe 14%, [estimate]) of people on Bnet who actualy mod the game, create new maps and so on. When Sc2 comes out it WILL lure more people to the customization style, and if the Hive can do for Sc2 what it did for Wc3, then people will flock to it.

 

[PurplePoot]

Idk, personally, after looking at sc2, how many people will bother seriously modding it. It's so original already that it looks like you could just tweak the costs and stats a bit, or make games such as defence vs the zerglings, and it would be fine -- there's so much variety between the units

 

[Ratherion]

Well you must remember that Wc3 was very origional as well, the more variety only allows for even more creative games/modding.

 

[Gausslander]

if it does stay strictly War3 then I'm going to make my own site for Starcraft 2.

 

[Deckboy]

Lol sorry but Blizzard is NOT gonna lose money on ScII. . .I just don't see how it's possible. I'm pretty sure that more than half of Korea plays starcraft. . .oh and hey guess what? Starcraft ONE is STILL selling well. . .(which should give you an idea of just how popular ScII will be)

I really don't see how they're gonna lose money on this. I mean sure they won't make as much money as WoW—but they get money every month for that. . .I mean when you think about just how much Blizzard has raked in from WoW, they could probably make ScII a fluke and STILL have enough money to make another entirely new game. Blizzard's not gonna lose money on this. Trust me.

-Deck

 

[Ratherion]

True, they won't lose money, and i really hope they follow through with it fast, reality is that they want to make as much money as possilbe though, and wow will do that for a bit longer at least.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

...but my question is, will the editor use jass, or will there be another scripting system

Perhaps they will use the same that they used with WoW (LUA or whatever it was named).

 

[Shados]

Please, lua is not spelled all in capitals. And wow wasn't coded in lua, only ui mods are, I beleive.

-*meow*

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

My mistake and I think lua was used for most of it, try and look on wc3campaigns, Vexorian talked some about it.

 

[Mechanical Man]

I don't understand why are you all so worried about impact Starcraft 2 would have to this site. We can expect starcraft 2 in about 2 years. For that period members base will change drastically, many notable members will leave. I bet Ralle, Archian, Wolverabid, Werewulf, Chriz., TDR and others will no longer be part of this community. So the best thing is to forget starcraft 2 for now, at least thinking in this direction.

 

[Eleandor]

it's nice to see that blizzard "gets" 15 dollars for each WoW player but eh... don't forget that a large part of that goes into services and paying servers. and that large part is a part of around 10 dollars. The profit they make from a yearly-paying customer would be 3 (or maybe even 2, I forgot) dollars. That's peanuts.

WoW makes ALOt of money, but it really makes less money than you would think. Besides, these are 2 completelly different games. Ofcourse people will leave WoW because they want to play SC 2, but don't forget that while 1 is a hack & slash RPG the other is a (non hero (?) thus non-leveling) RTS.

I've heard of alot of people saying that the expansion came right in time because they were getting bored. It's a fact that if you don't add content, people will indead leave WoW. And adding alot of content also means alot of work, alot of money that has to be invested in it, etc. etc.

People won't leave WoW because it's addicting as hell. Ofcourse people will "leave" WoW temporary and play SC2, but they'll probably play both. to me it's a fact that people will NOT leave WoW for an RTS. Blizzard will probably make more profit by releasing SC2 because:

1) They'll attract RTS-gamers that now have to play warcraft, or command & conquer, or ...
2) They'll attract the many SC fans
3) They'll attract fans from various games like WoW, but I believe those people will play both games.

Unless you're addicted to 1 specific game, I don't think you just only play 1 and ONE game only. at least I don't.

 

[Bloody_Demise]

Why pay 15 dollars a month if you are going to play other games? Ever heard of more bang for your buck? The point still is a lot of WoW players are more or less fan boys in my opinion, and are just addicted to blizzard games ever since warcraft: Orcs vs Humans.

 

[KaboomMaster]

ok a hint to all those saying the game is going to come out in two years u r retarded

if u look at the screen shots at starcraft2.com they show almost all of (or at least half of) the terran and 'toss so Blizzard probly has most of it done and are just tweaking concepts and balancing so one year is even a little extreme if you think about it because they got the sounds units and terrain done if anything the longest things they got left are the last few units the single player missions battle.net configuration and balancing which they might already have done and we dont know it (after seeing that 'toss mothership i would doubt the balancing [rofl 6 BC 12 missle turrets aproximately 20 marines dead])

so i would say at the least this fall at the max next year (PLZ THIS FALL PLZ)

 

[Deckboy]

Are you calling me names now?

All I was saying is that Blizzard has an (annoying) tendency to delay their games

 

[KaboomMaster]

im not trying to be rude but it looks pretty done and ive seen multiple places saying itll be out by this fall (if i can refind them ill post link) and most arent delayed that long except Ghost which doesnt count cuz Blizz wasnt makin it

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Ghost got cancelled ages ago. It would have sucked anyhow so good decision.

 

[KaboomMaster]

well i thought Ghost woulda been a fresh look on the inside of starcraft universe but the real lesson is that starcraft and warcraft games cant be trusted unless made by blizzard as we saw with Ghost and Warcraft: Adventures ( well it wasnt cannceled but it didnt fit blizz standards so blizz told makers [not themselves] to pull the plug)

 

[Deckboy]

Ghost got cancelled ages ago. It would have sucked anyhow so good decision.

>highfive<

Finally someone else who realized that it sucked!!

 

[GST_Nemisis]

starcraft ghost is still registered by blizzard as a trademark and copy right according to the blizzard product catalog, dunno if they are planning to do anythign with it.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

i doubt they'll do anything with Ghost. it was supposed to come out like summer 2004 (possibly 2003 or 2002) according to the promo vid that comes with Warcraft (can't remember RoC or TFT, too lazy to go watch it again) and it's almost summer 2007. not to mention there was an update (rumour?) that there would be no multiplayer at all, and then a few months later there's an update about all the cool multiplayer modes and units. Ghost was a train wreck of a game, and it would be hard to salvage.

 

[Herio-san]

Ghost was a train wreck of a game, and it would be hard to salvage.

Im willing to bet that most of the models from Ghost will probably go into SCII (depending on polycount etc).