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Now, very soon afterwards, Kitabatake’s submission (Kita is a good friend, and some say real life friend, of Aero) surged up by an astonishing thirteen votes, moving from fourth place with five votes to first place with eighteen, while the other submissions climbed one or two votes if at all. Coincidence? Unlikely, but perfectly possible.
BenjaminFredson just registered in February, has posted once (but apparently is global ignored), and has a Scandinavian-sounding name (Fredson). I should note here that Kita and Aero are Finnish.
draken koning just registered, has only a few posts, and was suspiciously busy private messaging someone when I checked his profile (who private messages people when they are that new? Unlikely, but possible I guess).
What do private messages have to do with anything?
But since you're so curious about it and hive rules do not forbid publishing private messages, here:
These are all the messages he has sent me/I have sent him:
draken koning said:
Kitabatake said:
draken koning said:
im macking an rpg using youre armors but im asking u would u make more helmets and maybe somthing as an cape attachment? i like ure stuff thats why im asking u
youre helmet model was realy cool (ceep making them )
but i hafe an request fore my rpg would u make an armor fore the dog model and maybe an cape attachment
Ghazghkull just registered today (April 8), and his only evident action has been voting for Kita’s submission. Possible though unlikely, but with all these other ‘coincidences’ very likely cheating.
I have no idea who he is, but probably somebody who joined one of the games on bnet and saw the text that the map is participating in a hiveworkshop contest.
Lichemperor had not done anything since last July until he apparently spontaneously logged on the other day and voted for Kita. He also has an IP collision with none other than Aero.
Mandrilx has posted 15 times since his registration years ago, and didn’t show a particularly high level of activity. Strange that he suddenly logged on and voted for Kita’s submission.
NS_SMOKE has posted five times since his joining about two months ago, and has not really communicated with anyone until his sudden voting for none other than Kita.
Peteri1111 just registered and voted for Kita, his only other action being a comment on a map of Kita’s. Peteri also happens to be a Scandinavian and primarily Finnish name.
I recognize these people. They are the ones that joined the game remake after remake (especially NS_SMOKE). It seems they also noticed that the map is indeed participating in a contest.
And it is true that many fans of the map indeed are Finnish. Probably because of the murderer's humorous Finnish warcry.
WHAT? I have never asked him or anybody else to spam/vote/advertize for me. Also I don't think I ever saw him joining one of the games I hosted.
I'd like to hear his explanation for this.
It’s pretty obvious what’s going on here, and that it is not friendly or in the spirit of contests. The two of you (Aeroblyctos and Kitabatake) have been disqualified from the contest for the reasons mentioned above
Reasons? So far you have given nothing but weak assumptions and opinions.
Please have some proof before you accuse people of crimes they never committed.
The map is played so much that there is no wonder so many people have noticed that it is participating in a contest.
It isn't against the rules for them to vote, is it?
There has been no rule breaking, simply hosting on battle.net
None of the rules forbid you from hosting the map or any of it's later versions on battle.net and no rules forbid you from mentioning within the map that it is participating in a contest. Besides, most of the maps I have checked so far ALSO have a text that says "Hiveworkshop.com speed mapping contest #1 entry" or something similar.
Sorry, I guess I made a too popular map.
I'll try to avoid it next time.
As for the first part where you highlight my early thoughts and portray them as my conclusions - that's quote mining and it doesn't help your case. What the quotes meant (as we both know) was that given only the evidence presented so far they were by no means enough to convict anyone of anything.
If you're saying you asked people on BNet to come to hiveworkshop and vote for your map, then there is no need to continue this discussion.
One member received this. Another member received a very similar one. Again, not evidence to convict someone on by itself (it could be an independent third party), but it definitely builds on a case already in place.
OK. That dude has a name that SOUNDS to have originated from somewhere in scandinavia.
Solid evidence! Good work Poot!
And when you add it to the other members... Coincidence, I think not.
I recognize these people. They are the ones that joined the game remake after remake (especially NS_SMOKE). It seems they also noticed that the map is indeed participating in a contest.
And they all happened to be long-time Hive users? One of them happened to share an IP with Aero? They all happened to have relatively no activity on posts on the Hive? One of them happened to have a highly suspicious name?
And it is true that many fans of the map indeed are Finnish. Probably because of the murderer's humorous Finnish warcry.
We did. Ever heard of a proxy, or friend votes? I never claimed that most of these were multiaccounts, only a few were highly suspect. Also, you haven't explained the one whose IP did collide.
Within the last 7 days Mansion Murderer has overthrown every single murderer map on the whole battle.net when looking at the host count
Because nobody really plays murderer maps... As your link demonstrates, yours is the only one that anyone really hosts.
--
Look, I'm not out to get you. Hell, I haven't even talked to you before as far as my memory serves me. My review even ranked your map fairly well (and you're welcome to ask any mod for confirmation), with my main problem with it being that after a few games we could not find a way to win as the survivors (too easy to die vs zombies). I just don't appreciate dishonesty and will not tolerate it. I await an actual response to all the 'coincidences' I listed rather than how the world is out to get you and how a finnish warcry makes IPs collide and streams of voters join for you and you only.
As for the first part where you highlight my early thoughts and portray them as my conclusions - that's quote mining and it doesn't help your case. What the quotes meant (as we both know) was that given only the evidence presented so far they were by no means enough to convict anyone of anything.
One member received this. Another member received a very similar one. Again, not evidence to convict someone on by itself (it could be an independent third party), but it definitely builds on a case already in place.
I have nothing to do with those and today was the first time I heard about those messages.
Who were the people that sent those messages?
Were there other people than just meteOrain- ?
Most of the people who joined the game were from Scandinavia since I hosted the game on Northerend server. If you check the MapGnome statistics, the game has only spread around Northerend and Azeroth so far.
Therefore it isn't very odd that some of the voters are from scandinavia as well.
Suspicious in what way? From the same country?
The majority of people who joined the game were Finnish for some reason so it isn't weird that one of them decided to vote.
Not necessarily, but nearly always when I host the game, the majority of players are Finnish. Could also be the game type, or then simply there is suddenly more Finnish people playing custom games on bnet. I don't know!
The point is: For some reason most of the people that join the game are Finnish, so there is nothing weird that a portion of the voters happen to be Finnish as well.
None of the suspected people are my friends. Most of them joined the game several times, I don't know the others.
Also I don't think they would use proxies.
How am I supposed to explain things about people I don't know?
Maybe he has a dynamic IP address? I don't know. He is just someone who joined the game several times.
Do you get to know EVERY person that joins your games on battle.net?
Look, I'm not out to get you. Hell, I haven't even talked to you before as far as my memory serves me. My review even ranked your map fairly well (and you're welcome to ask any mod for confirmation), with my main problem with it being that after a few games we could not find a way to win as the survivors (too easy to die vs zombies). I just don't appreciate dishonesty and will not tolerate it.
I await an actual response to all the 'coincidences' I listed rather than how the world is out to get you and how a finnish warcry makes IPs collide and streams of voters join for you and you only.
I hosted the game on battle.net several times (Not against rules)
Many people joined the game (Not against rules)
The majority of the people that joined were Finnish (Not against rules)
Some of the people saw that the map was participating in a contest (Not against rules)
A fraction of those people came and voted for the map (Not against rules)
I have nothing to do with those and today was the first time I heard about those messages.
Who were the people that sent those messages?
Were there other people than just meteOrain- ?
Most of the people who joined the game were from Scandinavia since I hosted the game on Northerend server. If you check the MapGnome statistics, the game has only spread around Northerend and Azeroth so far.
Therefore it isn't very odd that some of the voters are from scandinavia as well.
Suspicious in what way? From the same country?
The majority of people who joined the game were Finnish for some reason so it isn't weird that one of them decided to vote.
This really doesn't carry any weight. "For some reason, a surge of people from my country joined a game which has no apparent connection to it then decided to make accounts on THW to vote for me."
Not necessarily, but nearly always when I host the game, the majority of players are Finnish. Could also be the game type, or then simply there is suddenly more Finnish people playing custom games on bnet. I don't know!
The point is: For some reason most of the people that join the game are Finnish, so there is nothing weird that a portion of the voters happen to be Finnish as well.
None of the suspected people are my friends. Most of them joined the game several times, I don't know the others.
Also I don't think they would use proxies.
Well then, I hope that you can convince me that you're innocent. I don't like to think that the site is full of cheating, but if it looks to be then I will not hesitate to act.
I know some of those people like Peter1111 they are some finnish players around Bnet and I bet that they didnt try out other maps. Just came on this site and clicked vote.
Okay, I'll consider him legit then. Thank you for your input. The other points still stand, and whichever way they go, I want this resolved as quickly as possible.
I'm not talking about any surge. I'm saying that nearly every time I have hosted the game, most of the players have been Finnish. And like I said before, I think this is partly because of the Finnish humour in the map as there are next to none maps that actually have anything in Finnish.
Also, you're talking about one game. I have hosted the map dozens of times and many people have joined remake after remake.
Are you accusing me then?
I don't use any proxies. I don't know how to prove that though so maybe you could show me an example?
Prove me that you haven't used proxies.
And I have?
If the message "This map is participating in hiveworkshop.com speed mapping contest #1" is asking for a vote, then you need to disqualify nearly all entries.
Well then, I hope that you can convince me that you're innocent. I don't like to think that the site is full of cheating, but if it looks to be then I will not hesitate to act.
I'm not talking about any surge. I'm saying that nearly every time I have hosted the game, most of the players have been Finnish. And like I said before, I think this is partly because of the Finnish humour in the map as there are next to none maps that actually have anything in Finnish.
This doesn't follow. They don't know about the "Finnish humour" (assuming it is particularly good anyways) until they have played it. Besides, if that was the only reason to play it then you would not have gotten non-Finnish votes, and if it was not than that argument does not follow.
One of every three was suspicious from a relatively large sample? The odds are not in your favour.
And I'm sayng these people (or at least some of them) evidently came with preexisting knowledge of you and your work and not that of others - that makes them suspicious.
Why are you talking in plural? Only one of those Finns voted for me.
Please stop trying to forcefully twist and alter my words against me.
It's clear that more than one of them was from that region, and you yourself are claiming hte majority of these people wree scandinavians who joined (and thus, we may axtrapolate, that voted).
This argument could go back and forth forever, as far as anyone here is concerned. I am with Poot that too many coincidences is too much to let fly, it's simply in the best interest of the spirit of the contest to nullify the voting stage as it is skewed and disqualify the offending entry.
This is how functions like this work: There is no end-all proof that makes one of you wrong and the other right. However, there is overwhelming evidence suggesting that Poot's point claims more validity than Kita's. On probable cause, which is fully legitimate to be used by the staff (and necessary, mind you), I say that the decision made here was a wise one.
Note that you, Kita, are not being banned from ever entering in a mapmaking contest again. (Like happens to known cheaters) This is more or less giving you the benefit of the doubt and only eliminating you from this one, specific contest.
Kitabatake said:
You have no evidence, yet you act like I had broken the rules and that is insulting.
He has probable cause and has displayed ample evidence in support of his point. Regardless of the specifics of the case, there is something fishy in those votes that is not in support of the spirit of the contest. In lieu of that, which is a perfectly legitimate claim, I say the decision made against you was entirely fair.
Oh, and sporting an attitude and claiming that Poot is 'biased' (Which, mind you, makes no sense) does not help your case one bit. If you want to contest the point he made, be a little more respectful.
Are you accusing me then?
I don't use any proxies. I don't know how to prove that though so maybe you could show me an example?
Prove me that you haven't used proxies.
Whoa whoa stop for a second, how the fuck can you prove you didn't use proxies, or ANYTHING on the internet? Send a picture, or a video, of you not using proxies? LOLIMNOTUSINGPROXIES. And I do think the entire point of Poot's original post was to accuse you. -.-'
Ok, this is just stupid. I"m sorry but really what kind of conclusions are people really jumping to?
I hardly post on the hive, but it doesn't mean i don't look at things and vote. How hard is it to vote? It's a simple one-click. You can vote easier than post. That's for sure.
* Mandrilx has posted 15 times since his registration years ago, and didn’t show a particularly high level of activity. Strange that he suddenly logged on and voted for Kita’s submission.
* NS_SMOKE has posted five times since his joining about two months ago, and has not really communicated with anyone until his sudden voting for none other than Kita.
* Peteri1111 just registered and voted for Kita, his only other action being a comment on a map of Kita’s. Peteri also happens to be a Scandinavian and primarily Finnish name.
This is maybe a coincidence? Who knows. . . Maybe Kitabatake has a friend theres no rule against having a friend vote for you is there? I mean theres a rule about proxies i'm sure etc. But what the heck is one single friend gonna do rig the whole votes by just voting one time?
meteOrain- has been spamming people via PMs to vote for Kita. Pretty obvious here.
This guy sounds like some random noob who found kitabatake makes good models and decided oh let's all vote for him. Hes probably more likely to be an idiot who saw that kitabatake makes good models and maybe played the map once or twice and thought it was really good.
* Lichemperor had not done anything since last July until he apparently spontaneously logged on the other day and voted for Kita. He also has an IP collision with none other than Aero.
This one is only the least bit convincing since the IP thing. But who's to say that Lichemeperor doesn't have an IP changer rather than thinking that Kita or aero has one which would cause an IP clash?
All in all i highly doubt anything "really fishy" is going on since there was only 20 or so votes. Generally it's just raised superstitions from "sudden re-activity" and that usually happens every now and then especially from these types of gaming sites. As some people get bored and quit randomly then jump right back on the bandwagon.
Also, i'm curious as well. . . How do you exactly prove you "didn't proxy"?
If the message "This map is participating in hiveworkshop.com speed mapping contest #1" is asking for a vote, then you need to disqualify nearly all entries.
Few people thought that I'm a Multi-Accounter(IP collisions, etc.). So all to you: I talked with Ghan in "admin contact"-forum and the conclusion is that I'm not a Multi-Accounter so no need to talk about that anymore. Thank you.
I don't expect that kitabatake would be so stupid asking others to vote for him because after all he's smart enough to know this kind of stuff happens.
Even though, it happens.
I know that Kitabatake hosted his map many times (when I am online at battle.net I notice it) and so people can read that the map competes in a contest.
We even gained some members in our clan because of his map. Aye so?
I think that the massive reputation (9 times) given in that thread for purplepoot is suspicious.
Not that I care, but just to see those *sslickers.
And he's talking about asking other people, uh?
And I definitely agree with this. We just need few good map reviewers who will do the job. I have never liked this poll thing, it's always unfair and it always will be unfair.
Even there are 100s of people with 1 posts votes for him, you can't blame him because he can't do anything at all. And there is a chance someone registers fake accounts then vote for him to cause trouble...
After playing a few games of Mansion Murderer on north, it appears that a disproportionate number of finns do indeed join the game, and thus I'm willing to accept Kitabatake's situation as coincidence.
Aero, however... the link he provided only incriminates him (in my opinion), as while he *technically* did not ask people to vote for *him*, he asked people to come vote 'for the contest' on a site dedicated to how great he was, knowing full well the people would vote for him, likely without even opening a single other entry.
That's what kind of question he is faced with. He's being tasked to provide evidence that cannot be obtained.
You know who's fault it is though? It's the fault of the staff, for giving people the ability to boost their rank. I would not ever attempt to enter a contest in which the judging is done by everyone. Even on WC3C. It's utterly pointless. Without a reputable judge, it's not much different than having a gallery or submitting to the resource section.
A Question:
Will the results of this contest be declared or has the contest been ignored(I am not sure if ignored is correct word here but I hope you understood what I am asking)?
I would not ever attempt to enter a contest in which the judging is done by everyone. Even on WC3C. It's utterly pointless. Without a reputable judge, it's not much different than having a gallery or submitting to the resource section.
You're assuming that a majority of the people that vote in said poll are not reputable judges themselves, which for a place like WC3C is not the case. It's also much easier for WC3C to filter votes based upon the quality of the vote (which is more like a judging than a vote anyways) since the admins read each carefully.
I can judge if you guys want (actually, I'd love to). I'm free the next couple of days so that would be quite ideal for me. Since my submission was downright terrible, my position in the contest is negligible as I'd drop out. I also consider myself quite proficient in JASS, so I'd be able to judge the coding as well as other areas of the map.
You guys need to chill the hell out and not ream the staff for taking some time to judge and so forth. They don't live for judging contests, they do it as volunteers; respect that or go away, seriously.
It'll get done eventually. Go play with the other contests or something until it does.
You guys need to chill the hell out and not ream the staff for taking some time to judge and so forth. They don't live for judging contests, they do it as volunteers; respect that or go away, seriously.
It'll get done eventually. Go play with the other contests or something until it does.
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If somebody would make a map featuring anything slovenian, it would greatly catch my interest.
![Dreadnought[dA]](/data/avatars/m/134/134647.jpg?1465504677){kind=avatar}
