Sheol

[FeelsGoodMan]

Since some of you have voiced concerns that the map is too hard, I post these videos, showing me beating all bosses in the first try. I even make some mistakes here and there, so they are by no means unbeatable, or too hard.

Watch only if you aren't able to beat the bosses without it;

Mammon:

Spoiler

Witch of Endor:

Spoiler

Beelzebub:

Spoiler

Abaddon:

Spoiler

Sorry for not recording the sound. I just bought a new headset and forgot to choose the headset as audio output. If you want to hear the voice acting, awesome music, and awesome immersive boss fight sounds you should play it and check for yourself

 

[matin45]

145 mb isn't a bit high for a mini-rpg map?

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

145 mb isn't a bit high for a mini-rpg map?

Not really, if you take a look at the resources used (in-game, not in the resource viewer. The resource viewer is bugged).

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Sorry for the double post, but;

Gameplay screenshots has now been posted!

 

[Deleted member 247165]

It looks amazing!

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

It looks amazing!

Thanks!

 

[ZiBitheWand3r3r]

Question: my Unnamed at level 1 have to fight with Mammon? I'm not sure if there is other way I can walk. If not, and I ahve to beat him , it's damn difficult for me.
I read tips here (avoid hook-like missle, stay close) but I cannot kill bastard ..
After respawn he is full hp, maybe I don't play enough generally . Any more tips for n00b

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Question: my Unnamed at level 1 have to fight with Mammon? I'm not sure if there is other way I can walk. If not, and I ahve to beat him , it's damn difficult for me.
I read tips here (avoid hook-like missle, stay close) but I cannot kill bastard ..
After respawn he is full hp, maybe I don't play enough generally . Any more tips for n00b

Spoiler

Learn aprox. how long the cooldown of his melee attack spell is, then you run behind him and attack from behind when he activates that. Kill the occasional shade for mana to deal extra damage with your spell. Stay close to him and avoid the hook at all times.

 

[deepstrasz]

After respawn he is full hp, maybe I don't play enough generally . Any more tips for n00b

Don't expect to win in one go. It's not quite Warcraft III. Study your opponents even if that means dying a couple of times.
I'm telling you, this is one of the easier maps out here.

@FeelsGoodMan spoiler tags man...

 

[Wlarius]

You even put a helmet model on the head of the separate skeleton model. How insane can you be?

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

I have updated my second post with videos showing how to defeat the bosses if they are too hard for you. Watch only if you absolutely need it.

Sorry for no sound.

 

[A]mun]

Targeting is really clumsy and already makes the first boss battle a chore.

Well designed but gameplay is lacking severely.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Targeting is really clumsy and already makes the first boss battle a chore.

Well designed but gameplay is lacking severely.

Try targeting with 'A'. Right clicking to target won't work.

 

[deepstrasz]

Try targeting with 'A'. Right clicking to target won't work.

That's counterintuitive for an ARPG.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

You even put a helmet model on the head of the separate skeleton model. How insane can you be?

Hah, I'm actually really surprised that you noticed. Yeah I did

UPDATE: I have changed the movement system and reverted to classic Warcraft III movement. You can swap movement systems any time by typing 'movement'.

 

[deepstrasz]

145 mb isn't a bit high for a mini-rpg map?

Worth every bit, especially after the movement-mouse click update.

 

[Strikest]

Got a gamebreaking bug where the laser skill you get from the boss didnt deactivate at zero mana. Couldn't cancel it or do any actions. Luckily I had a gem of life to spawn things that eventually killed me; had I not I would have been stuck forever. Should add a -suicide command for situations like that.

Spoiler

As for the map itself, it's pretty well done but the whole resource system just annoyed the heck out of me to the point where I didn't bother with it at all and went for straight auto attacker build. The damage the shades do to you is not worth the temporary 10 mana, that drains over time(double wtf?).... especially with how hard the shades are to click and how they block me from clicking the boss. I get you're trying to be unique and/or hard but really, the whole resource thing is just annoying and turned me off from using any spells.

Edit: As you get later into the game and get more aoe spells(namely the stomp) the souls get easier to deal with and that makes it decent but at that point it's too late because there's only the final boss left... and you definitely DO NOT WANT to fight the shades there because of all the stuff you have to dodge...Being forced to bring in the gems was annoying, I ended up dropping the gems as soon as I started the fight.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Got a gamebreaking bug where the laser skill you get from the boss didnt deactivate at zero mana. Couldn't cancel it or do any actions. Luckily I had a gem of life to spawn things that eventually killed me; had I not I would have been stuck forever. Should add a -suicide command for situations like that.

Spoiler

undefined

If you check the known issues tab you'll see that this is written down, and that there's already a suicide command (kill). It can also be solved by typing thereisnospoon and then deactivating it. Just remember to also deactivate the cheat.

It's too bad you didn't like the resource system, I can agree it's maybe not for everyone. I wanted to make an alternative way to handle mana and HP management, where you you have the potential to never run out of mana if you play right. I have played many maps that gives you a lot of potions, but that normally ends up with you having way too many potions in your inventory, or you run out of them rendering you unable to deal with the enemies you're facing. Here you have mana, and you're able to get out of really sticky situations by simply killing a couple of shades. It can take a bit of time getting used to it, and some practice to handle it perfectly, but after a while it goes automatic. With the attack build you will two-shot them anyway, then you get enough mana to use the W spell (melee cleave spell) which is devastating with the attack build.

It is unfortunate that you had issues clicking the boss. Did you try changing movement systems to see if it got better? I personally have found combat the easiest when using Diablo movement and attacking by using the attack hotkey.

and you definitely DO NOT WANT to fight the shades there because of all the stuff you have to dodge

Watch the video in my second post, then you see me fight shades through the whole boss fight



Thanks a lot for your feedback! Unfortunately I can't change any of the things you mentioned right now as it's a part of a contest, and I will be penalized quite hard for updating my map at this point.

 

[GodofCinder]

gameplay is like diablo
Story is like darksiders
Difficulty is like dark souls
Which means its a great map ^-^

 

[Paillan]

Okay so. Partial review time. This partial review is needed for a bug happened that requires tackling. Before addresing that however, the review.

Atmosphere
I love it. The color hue, the gridiness, the shadows, the fog, it all works so well to establish this limboesc sort of place. Great style, the music works perfectly. It's things like this that make me drop from contests it's too good to compete.

Story
There is barely any, it can be resumed as "go kill bad guys in epic battle format". It works for itself and as the map is very self contained, the lack of depth doesn't hurt it.

Gameplay
Can't say I am a fan of having no mana at all. At least that's what it felt like for me, since outside of boss fights, goons didn't drop mana (souls) of any kind. I really liked the skills, which I will adress one at a time.

The shockwave thingy
I don't even remember it's name and that's because it was truly underwhelming. Almost no damage and I saw no use for the shockwave personally.

Momons cleave
Great spell, visually appealing, extremely useful, my go to spell

That guys Dash
I don't remember the demons name okay? in any case this spell is pretty weird, sometimes it would stun, sometimes it would not. Also, each time I used it I recovered 5 mana for a second. Is that intended?

Witch's ray
Okay... this one. Oh boi. What can I say. This spell is broken. Not because it doesn't work or because it deals too much damage, but because it's actually broken:

Spoiler: OOF

Now you may be wondering, what's wrong in this image? or may you saw it yourself. Well just in case you did not, the ray isn't stopping, even tho I ran out of mana long ago. Also the button to manually stop the ray is gone, it not only stopped me from being able to move (forcing me to restart the entire map because I tried to save and see if reloading would work... it didn't) but it dealt damage, with no cost at all. That can't be right.

Belsebab's Might
Didn't get to use this spell, but from what I saw from the boss fight it looks decent.

Overall
The map is incredible, while the difficulty might be a bit too hard for my liking, it is fun and engaging. Just that bugged spell is a big nono. I also have confidence on you fixing it. I'll get back on track on the map meanwhile.

Set to Awaiting update
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[FeelsGoodMan]

smack this post

Spoiler

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

since outside of boss fights, goons didn't drop mana (souls) of any kind.

Hmm that is really weird, can't say I have experienced this.

Almost no damage and I saw no use for the shockwave personally.

It's used best when lining up units and then firing it. Lining up 5-6 shades and then using it will either kill all the shades, or down them to low HP which means easy mana/HP souls.

sometimes it would stun, sometimes it would not.

If you read the spell tooltip you see that it doesn't stun shades.

Also, each time I used it I recovered 5 mana for a second. Is that intended?

Yes, that is also written in the spell tooltip.

Witch's ray
Okay... this one. Oh boi. What can I say. This spell is broken. Not because it doesn't work or because it deals too much damage, but because it's actually broken:

Spoiler: OOF

Now you may be wondering, what's wrong in this image? or may you saw it yourself. Well just in case you did not, the ray isn't stopping, even tho I ran out of mana long ago. Also the button to manually stop the ray is gone, it not only stopped me from being able to move (forcing me to restart the entire map because I tried to save and see if reloading would work... it didn't) but it dealt damage, with no cost at all. That can't be right.

This is written down in the "known issues" section in the map thread. The solution is to use 'thereisnospoon' then deactivate the spell.

too hard for my licking

Just lick harder

 

[Paillan]

I never used that spell on shades because I knew that. But for example the etherial goon was also inmune to it apparently.
huh, don't remember seeing that in the spell tooltip.
Using a command to fix the issue is never perfect and I wish I knew this before... anyway, I guess it's a really hard thing to code...

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

I never used that spell on shades because I knew that. But for example the etherial goon was also inmune to it apparently.

No unit should be immune to it except the life/death shades, but the hitbox can be slightly wonky if you use it on a unit you're standing right next to. And Beelzebub's hitbox is also a bit weird when it comes to the dash.

huh, don't remember seeing that in the spell tooltip.

It's all the way at the bottom, in purple text.

Using a command to fix the issue is never perfect

I know it's not optimal, but it makes an otherwise game breaking bug very easy to circumvent.

anyway, I guess it's a really hard thing to code...

The thing is that you need a set amount of buffer mana to cast it, and the spell will automatically deactivate when reaching a certain mana value. So let's say you need 5 mana to initiate casting, and the spell also deactivates when you reach 5 mana. That means you are still able to cast the spell while having exactly 5 mana, but since you're already at 5 mana it won't deactivate since you reached 5 mana before the spell was initiated. I can take another look and see if I can find a proper way to fix it, but I feel like this spell shouldn't be a reason for setting the status to awaiting update when there's an easy way to fix it.

 

[Paillan]

The thing is that you need a set amount of buffer mana to cast it, and the spell will automatically deactivate when reaching a certain mana value. So let's say you need 5 mana to initiate casting, and the spell also deactivates when you reach 5 mana. That means you are still able to cast the spell while having exactly 5 mana, but since you're already at 5 mana it won't deactivate since you reached 5 mana before the spell was initiated. I can take another look and see if I can find a proper way to fix it, but I feel like this spell shouldn't be a reason for setting the status to awaiting update when there's an easy way to fix it.

You are right. Personally I recommend making the miminal treshold not equal to cast cost. I'll set it to approved as soon as I test the final boss.

EDIT:
So... I just permastunned Belsebab in this run... pretty funny. Dash OP.
I loved every second of the final battle btw, even tho the spinning fire totem thingy attack was the bane of my existance and made me loose most of the time (due to to fast rotation after breaking 2 totems), using the life and death gems as healing times was actually fun.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

So... I just permastunned Belsebab in this run... pretty funny. Dash OP.

Actually permastunned him as in him not being un-stunned?

I loved every second of the final battle btw

I'm glad you liked it.

the spinning fire totem thingy attack was the bane of my existance and made me loose most of the time (due to to fast rotation after breaking 2 totems)

The clue is to use your slam ability to take out all of them in one go. Just stand close enough to hit them all, but not so close that you get burned from the fire in the middle.

 

[Paillan]

Actually permastunned him as in him not being un-stunned?

I'm glad you liked it.

The clue is to use your slam ability to take out all of them in one go. Just stand close enough to hit them all, but not so close that you get burned from the fire in the middle.

The thing is that I can never seem to get my mana high enough to use slam.
Also yes, he did not un-stun, which made the rest of the battle trivial.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

The thing is that I can never seem to get my mana high enough to use slam.

Shades gives you 15 mana, slam costs 10. One shade is enough to use slam.

Also yes, he did not un-stun, which made the rest of the battle trivial.

That is really weird. Can you explain a little more closely what you did? Simply use the stun ability? What Warcraft version do you use? I have played through the map at least 30 times, and I have never experienced this.

 

[Paillan]

Shades gives you 15 mana, slam costs 10. One shade is enough to use slam.

That is really weird. Can you explain a little more closely what you did? Simply use the stun ability? What Warcraft version do you use? I have played through the map at least 30 times, and I have never experienced this.

Yes, now that I remember I did use slam a few times but I didn't though of using it for totems.
As for the stun, yes, I simply used the dash, it was a diagonal-down dash (as in towards the start of the map feom Belzebab arena' pov). This happened only once and in 1.31. It was weird because I did use stun before and after and it worked as intended...

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Yes, now that I remember I did use slam a few times but I didn't though of using it for totems.
As for the stun, yes, I simply used the dash, it was a diagonal-down dash (as in towards the start of the map feom Belzebab arena' pov). This happened only once and in 1.31. It was weird because I did use stun before and after and it worked as intended...

I see. Well I haven't been able to replicate the issue, so I'm not entirely sure how to fix it.

Any news on the map status?

 

[Paillan]

For a full review watch the first one.
The final boss was good, and I liked the fight.
Despite a very weird bug that I was not able to replicate and me not liking the way you fixed the ray bug (but I understand why you did it this way) I can't see any reason to keep this awaiting update, the bugs are very small and self contained and don't break the experience.

Set to Approved
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Screenshots could attract more players to download your work. Make the best of them.

A credits list is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated.

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[Urain]

me like

 

[Otherknownoise]

Can be too hard and too easy. There're still some problem but is great enough for a minimap
Here I have some tips for first time players.

Spoiler

• Other

-Gather creeps near revive point may save some time.
-Right click "smart" may not attack the target, so use hotkey "A" instead.
-Hotkey "Ctrl+C" unlocks camera and reseted when revived.
-Get some mana before

• Item/Ability

-Don't move or drop items in battle, it causes hero to move randomly.
-Gem sometimes can't be placed, or placed but nothing happened.

-Don't use any ability to drop the gem. Hero can be attracted by shade and walk away.
-Q ability need to cast just face to the target to deal max dmg, but useless during boss fighting because it pauses the hero.
-W ability is great, especially after charge.
-Don't cast E ability, it's buggy.
-D charge's actual area is smaller than you think.

• Mammon

-Without abilities and items make him harder than the next two bosses.
-Bloodlust flurry has a long cooldown, and his attack dmg is lower than hero.
-Shade drops soul, but unit and doodad have collision size and likely to block you, so ignore them at first until they gathered too many.

-Keeping a short distance so he won't cast meak hook.
-When he was about to cast bloodlust flurry, walk away. Then back behind and attack him or clear shades. Melee attack is way more useful than Q ability in this fight.
-Attack at hero's max range, don't get to close or else hero can't run away from bloodlust flurry.

• Witch and Beelzebub

-Follow "Information for noobs"
-Attack wards and witch behind them. Samuel's charge is strange, he'll stun them first.
-When witch blinks away, just simply walk behind her.
-Could be the easest.

• Abaddon

-Hero always just charges through Abaddon or simply stop but cause no stun. D**n! I have no idea how to deal with this.
-Carry angel set item to keep survive, demonic set is weak against him. Gems are important to restore.
-Main dmg is caused by R ability. Melee attack is not useful in this battle.
-You may drop items inside the battlefield if you want to chage items.

-When it's Spell 4 time, the 4 wards circle, clear wards with R ability at once. Before this, D charge to get mana and Q to kill some creeps, then walk circly. Restore as much health and mana as you can.
Also, death of some wards make other wards circles faster, don't take long when started to clean the wards.

And what's critical rate and dmg, what parts deal "25% more dmg", melee or all kind? Though I have all demoic set.
Moving sword provides 2 food.
Abaddon cenima time is too long.
Shades look good in camera.

_____________________________________________
I play on 1.30 single player.

 

[Zyle]

Before the 2nd boss there is a gate which has 2 circles, on the left is the red one solved by Gem. What should I put on the right one (green)?

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Before the 2nd boss there is a gate which has 2 circles, on the left is the red one solved by Gem. What should I put on the right one (green)?

If you continue playing you will eventually get to second boss, which drops the yellow gem. The yellow gem goes in the yellow circle.

 

[Zyle]

If you continue playing you will eventually get to second boss, which drops the yellow gem. The yellow gem goes in the yellow circle.

Ah, I found out. There is a three-way crossroad at the spawn point I didnt notice. The gate I'm talking about lead to 3rd boss.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Sorry for the double post, but I load the game and this happen. Location is the gate lead to 3rd boss.

Hmm, you should avoid using Blizzard's save/load function as it breaks some stuff in the map.

Also your screenshot contains some personal information, you should probably delete that.

 

[Zyle]

Thanks

 

[Whiteagle]

Ok hu...
Had to check I was on wc3 because I got some doubts.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Ok hu...
Had to check I was on wc3 because I got some doubts.

Haha thanks

 

[jhfetestr2]

I really enjoyed playing this map. Will there be next map for the lore? At the end of game, i suppose there was an open door for it.

 

[StonemaulMidget]

Sure sounds a lot better than Shadowlands...
I will give this map a try.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Sure sounds a lot better than Shadowlands...
I will give this map a try.

Cool! Hope you won't be scared off by the clunky HP/Mana management system

 

[StonemaulMidget]

Cool! Hope you won't be scared off by the clunky HP/Mana management system

Ah, ha, ha. I remember horror stories about Shadowland's anima grind.