Selling maps

[Bloody_Turds]

id be happy with a donate button , why pay, when it can always run on donations, blizz could deposite/withdraw into our accounts or something

 

[mrzwach]

Meh, I would kinda dislike a donate button. It would effectively mean that some people could just play a map for free, relying on others to give donations. Also, then whichever map TWIF likes would end up having the mapmaker as a multi-millionaire.

 

[ap0calypse]

Also, then whichever map TWIF likes would end up having the mapmaker as a multi-millionaire.

Lol xD
_{(For the people who don't get it: TWIF donated nearly $1.000 to the hive}

I don't think a donate-button is a bad idea though.
Some people are also on the hive for free :0
Not entirely the same, but Ralle worked really hard on this site (it's kind of his life-project).
Yes: a donate-button gives about 90-95% less money, but is that really the point? Is all there is to mapmaking the money? I'd say that creating a map is fun and finishing such a masterpiece is worth the entire procedure of creating it (imo at least).


After reading all the posts here, I don't mind the pay-to-play either.
At first I was a bit sceptic to pay for a map, but after checking the editor and some cusom-made maps multiple times, I found out that map can be top notch concerning quality, a complete overhaul of Starcraft II.
I think that in the future you won't even be able to recognize a SC2 map from another game, sourc[e]x already did this for wc3 (Example one / Example two).
These maps were made with the weaker WE, so I just don't know what to expect when people use the GE to it's full extent.

And although I don't mind paying for it, I do not agree with the fact that some people create maps to get money out of it... Warcraft III exists out of fan-made maps, will Starcraft II then have maps purely based to get a high profit?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Lol xD
_{(For the people who don't get it: TWIF donated nearly $1.000 to the hive}

Wish I had so much money to not know where else to use them. This is noble I guess

 

[HappyHero]

People pay for a Call Of Duty MW2 Mappack Containing 5 maps, where 3 of them are just ported from MW1. Price is like 15€.

If thats ok, people will also pay for other game content. I think it's going to be like in the app stores of mobile phones... A lot of people buy crap minigames for 1-3$ each.

 

[Pyritie]

In short, if they pull off the system correctly, you would be able to buy maps created by professional developers for the price of a few dollars. Quite the good deal, in my opinion.

Knowing blizzard these days, they'll probably fuck it up and piss all over everyone.

 

[JakeCake]

I will never take money from my maps And I have huge plans!

Besides, I work a lot better when doing something for fun/as a hobby, than doing it for the money

 

[Rui]

I don't think I'd like to pay to play a map, so I probably won't make any of my maps premium if I ever release any and they're qualified for the title.
It'll be sad if we have to pay to play our SC2 equivalent of WoS.

 

[Triceron]

In all honesty, if you don't want to pay for it, don't buy it. If you don't want to see it, don't go to the store. If you don't want to see pay maps displayed, then filter them out.

No one's forcing you to buy anything, I don't see the problem with people selling maps. Is it any worse than games on XBLA/PSN/Wiiware, or an app for a cellphone?

You should also consider of the likely option that Blizzard will open up a 'premium mapmaker' service for people who want to sell maps, charging them a monthly/yearly fee in order to have larger map space (beyond the 10mb map limit, 20mb upload limit) and be able to sell maps over bnet. This is how iphone apps works, this is how xbla/psn/wiiware works, this is most likely how srsbzns SC2 map/modmaking will work.

 

[syltman]

I wonder how much the prices would vary, I mean a really high quality TD should cost about the same an iphone app and a high quality FPS that is almost like a real game worth of content should cost the same as a indie game at steam.

 

[ap0calypse]

I don't think they should cost as much as a Steam indie game, I would pay $8 for 3-4 maps, but not for one.
You shouldn't forget that this is all because those people wanted to create a map, it's supposed to be fun...
Asking $8 for a map isn't about fun anymore, then you're just greedy.

If 5000 people pay for your $8-map, then you've gained some $2000-2500 (since you're probably working in a team).
That's just not right in my opinion.

 

[Pyritie]

If 5000 people pay for your $8-map, then you've gained some $2000-2500 (since you're probably working in a team).
That's just not right in my opinion.

Earning money for your hard work is wrong?

 

[real138]

Of course its not right!! What kind of world do we live in? Where people work for money? No we are hard working people who work for thank yous and hugs!! [/sarcasm]

yeah idk how this is any different than making a game for lets say the iphone and expecting money.

 

[Cweener]

Earning money for your hard work is wrong?

People go to hell for earning money from maps these days.

 

[real138]

Lol? there still is programming involved. TheTerran have you ever made a map in Wc3 or some other editor? O just import models just make terrain. hmm someone on the team MADE the terrain, someone on the team probably MADE the model, someone on the team had to program. This all takes time. Its not just an idea that instantly comes to life because you imagined it. All of this takes hard work. Idk what world you live but its gonna take a hell of a lot of work to create a premium map.

I'm not saying I want 8 bucks for a map, hell I'd be fine if it was like $0.50. I really don't care if I make alot but at least this stimulates developers.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

If 5000 people pay for your $8-map, then you've gained some $2000-2500 (since you're probably working in a team).
That's just not right in my opinion.

Just a little correction, 8x5000 = 40,000 USD so say you work in a team of 10 people, 4000 USD

This is too much I fully agree. But let's get it straight, only a Dota-fame map can get that, how many maps will be like that. So anything similar happening in war3? I dont think so, the max people may buy YOUR map will be say 200x8 = 1600/10 = 160 USD which seems fine.

yeah idk how this is any different than making a game for lets say the iphone and expecting money.

Because there you have to start from a complete zero and say requires real programming than just importing models, making terrains with already existing things ? Why do you think people should be worshipping you for your map? Im against any payment since a person should be starting a map with the idea of doing it for fun, not getting $ $ eyes, pff.

I say Blizzard should put a very low limit on the max price of map unless it gets as played as Dota. And still ppl will exceed the actual worthiness of their maps. Lol Idc I'd play melee, im not much into custom games anyway, just taking a role frm a neutral side.

 

[real138]

uhm terran why did you repost your post? yours was above mine...

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Forum bug resulting in your fast post. I think only maps as much played as dota should be promoted from free to payable and not too high price. All im gonna say everyone setting a price from the beginning is wrong.

 

[mrzwach]

Are you guys seriously complaining that if you pay someone money for a map, they get money? I mean, I'm not following this.

Its your money, your choice. If someone makes something that is of high enough quality that enough people pay enough money to get them a massive profit, then kudos to them! Chances are, they would have to put in a hell of a lot of work because otherwise other people could also sell maps of equivalent quality (or offer them for free) and then they wouldn't make as much money (if any).

Personally, I feel that if I make maps, then it is for fun. I want people to be able to play my maps and not have to spend money on them, and thats my opinion. I find it highly likely that a majority of the successful mapmakers agree, and this is because modding is generally pro bono and for fun. So, regardless of a premium map system, there will always be fun maps to play that are free, and lots of them. If you are really against them, then you can just not buy them.

 

[masterofra]

I think that If you were able to play said premium maps once, to see if it is worth the amount of money asked, then I think that it would work good enough. Also, I think blizzard said that the current Dota in wc3 is in fact, Not good enough to qualify as a premium map with whatever rules they are using to determine if they will qualify as a premium map. This also means that maps will need to have a Lot of work put into them, and really be good for them to be premium.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

In other words expect serious judging and evaluation from Blizzard. That's what Im saying, only best of the best maps, unique maps should cost money, something that is indeed incredible and impressive. Im not sure what qualifies as such. Diablo 3 in war3 the way it was made was great but the idea is not unique, as it is D3. Im not sure if Blizzard focus on idea as well. On the other hand, RPGs are made, remakes of other games are made, this shouldnt be a problem cause you cant think of new genres - TDs, Survivals, Hero Arena, Dota, Run Kitty, Sheep tag, Footman/Zergling wars, you cant think of new genres. The ideas within an RPG/game remake matters. And Im pretty sure using other game's models may be rejected from Blizzard for a map to become payable.

 

[Doctor-Pepper]

I would mind paying 3-4 euro for a high quality map that updates frequently and is super fun to play
And for all those greedy or broke bastards, that only download all games and movies with torrentz, and would never give a cent for someone who spend 200 hours making a map for you, Blizzard is not rlly interested in such fan base.
Dont get me wrong, i am doing all those things myself, but i dont mind giving a bit extra for better quality.
If my map is good enough to be premium, hell yeah i'll charge those 2 bucks. If a talanted mapmaking team makes a super awesome map, hell yeah i'll pay 5 bucks for it

 

[ap0calypse]

Wouldn't*
And I was talking about double the amount.
I do want to pay for high-quality maps but... well, just read the rest of my post.
It sounds like you all think I'm the greedy evil person here btw.

Earning money for your hard work is wrong?

No, but there is a limit to it.

Quality is a subjective term.
Blizzard said "even DotA won't become a premium map", but DotA is quality-wise not that great, it just happens to be popular.

There will undoubtedly be extremely advanced ORPG's, which are exceptional in nearly every area, yet aren't fun to play.
These people have worked enormously hard to create a game of which the quality beats every other game out there, but just didn't manage to actually make it fun to play.
Will this map become a premium-map? The quality is extremely high, higher than other premium maps on the net (yes, I'm currently talking in the future).

Will Blizzard pay much attention to the gameplay?
And if Blizzard does, then how will they say which game is fun and which isn't?
I wouldn't make DotA a premium map either, but with suge a huge fan-base, will Blizzard be forced to make it Premium? Will they then say "This is what people can do if they push the boundaries of the engine", as they did for DotA? Or will they realize it's been done better before, but those just didn't happen to become popular.

What if someone carries over a map, like IceFrog carried over DotA? What will happen to the original author?
IceFrog didn't do a lot to DotA, if DotA were a premium map, would IceFrog still get money for something he only took over from someone else?
Would EuL or Guinsoo still get money out of it?


I am not against paying for a map, people do deserve something for their efforts, I am unsure about which maps will be chosen and on which grounds.
And I know I'm talking about DotA a lot, but it's the perfect example for my stupid theories.

 

[Doctor-Pepper]

So you are dismissing the whole idea based on something you know nothing about and not sure how they will do it?
Blizzard made very clear that premium maps are only there for the professional development teams. it has to be 100% unique. they are focusing to win over external developers, like those who created the counter strike mod for half life, or Killer Floor for Unreal Tournament.
We, as a low level mapmakers of galaxy editor dont stand a chance to make our maps premium. Maps like Footman frenzy, Dota, Tower Defence, Who is a Vampire, Battleships, would never become a premium map. Blizzard made that clear during the press conference.

In one of their Q&A batches they mentioned that complex RPG's that took years to develop will actually stand a very slim chance against professional and fun mods that only took weeks to develop, to become premium. Rlly, u dont have to worry about awful maps that cost 20 euro. It's gonna be more like iPhone, Android and Palm payed apps. Cheap, accessible and fun to play

 

[Cardinian]

Again - skim-read most of this thread..

Everyone seems to be so anti-blizzard these days... Just wait until the game is released and then see if you're still whining? Go play Warcraft 3.

As a modding community, I thought a lot of people would be pleased at this prospect. Instead of seeing the negatives (as this thread and the last 4/5 pages have done), look at the positives? A team can get together, make a truly awesome map, get a fan base, distribute the map and then EARN money? Shit... I mod maps for fun, and if there was a prospect that it could pay my rent or buy me a beer, I'd start modding more seriously.

As for anyone who mentioned 'greed' previously. We live in a capitalist world. Get over it. Money makes the world go round and Greed makes it spin on it's axis. Try and deny it. You need money to live, money to thrive, money for everything. So stop hating on Blizzard for being good at what they do.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Think of the premium maps like pro teams. Just like in melee there are pro teams and pro players in a pro league, the only pro mapmakers will have premium maps.

As for anyone who mentioned 'greed' previously. We live in a capitalist world. Get over it. Money makes the world go round and Greed makes it spin on it's axis. Try and deny it. You need money to live, money to thrive, money for everything. So stop hating on Blizzard for being good at what they do.

Ever heard of perverted capitalism? It is worse than communism. If we go your logic, let's all of us get $_$ eyes and start making money from 1-2$ for shit maps to 100$ just because someone decides he is THAT great.. The system will be good as long as this is left really for the very very best and still not anything more than say 5-10$ if so unique map.

 

[real138]

Terran stop twisting everyones words. he never said $100 did? He is right that its that kind of world. He is being a realist listing facts how it actually is in the REAL world.

 

[Doctor-Pepper]

Ever heard of perverted capitalism? It is worse than communism. If we go your logic, let's all of us get $_$ eyes and start making money from 1-2$ for shit maps to 100$ just because someone decides he is THAT great..

Do you even know what capitalism is? Do you rlly thinks if someone sets the price to 12345€, someone will buy that map? The nature of capitalism is that if you perform, you gain. if you s.uck, you're out
Ur posts seem more like a cry for attention.
Stop b1tching based on made up speculations, created in ur twisted mind.
Blizzard is a huge company, with very smart project leaders and economists. Be sure they will make a right decision. They did make all the right choses already for 19 years
(p.s. they also mentioned that the most maps will be from 1 to 5 bucks)

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Blizzard is a huge company, with very smart project leaders and economists. Be sure they will make a right decision. They did make all the right choses already for 19 years

Pff hahahah. Being a fanboy of Blizzard will get you nowhere. Blizzard used to make right decisions, always make right decisions, yeah "right". Blind fanboys are typical robots and can be controlled in any way, I was quite clear with my opinion on fanboys. We will see, maps isn't my concern im just saying only the best of the best should be given this opportunity for payable maps.

 

[ap0calypse]

In one of their Q&A batches they mentioned that complex RPG's that took years to develop will actually stand a very slim chance against professional and fun mods that only took weeks to develop, to become premium. Rlly, u dont have to worry about awful maps that cost 20 euro. It's gonna be more like iPhone, Android and Palm payed apps. Cheap, accessible and fun to play

------------------

(p.s. they also mentioned that the most maps will be from 1 to 5 bucks)

Now THIS is the answer to most of my questions and clears my doubts!
Thanks for explaining it, Doctor-Pepper.

I was unsure about the method maps were chosen and the price that will be put on them.
Of course I don't mind paying $1-5 for a truly unique, fun to play game, especially after seeing some of the things that people have done after a few hours of testing with the GE.
And obviously I do want to play a game that pushes the boundaries of what in my opinion is the most advanced mapping tool in gaming history (correct me if I'm wrong here).

The only question which still remains is what happens to the original authors once a map is carried over to someone else.

 

[Doctor-Pepper]

Pff hahahah. Being a fanboy of Blizzard will get you nowhere.

Ye, talk about your strategy. B1tching about non existent theories, over exaggerating, twisting the facts, making huge problems out of nothing. How is that working out for u?

As far as i know from my 4 weeks in beta, its a super fun and balanced game. The layout looks great, world editor is gi-normous and flexible.

The fact that there are no chatrooms and that banks are limited to 80 didits, doesnt take away the fact that by far, there is no other RTS that is even half as goog as sc2.

But u are such an effing Drama Queen, u'll only be happy when they will start paying YOU the money for playing custom maps and design exact same Ladder system that u've dreamed about in ur wet dreams

 

[real138]

Heh pepper its not worth fighting with him for it. He is a player not a mapmaker. All he has been doing is complaining ever since Sc2 came into beta.

As you said Sc2 is one of the best if not best RTS out there. Whats even better is comes with an amazing editor that is 3 times as powerful as previously.it Yes more difficult to use but once you get used to it, it's worth it.

Terran one more thing.. do you play dota? you sure sound like one of the fanboys.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

This thread is about maps costing money DrPepper, not about bnet 2.0. DO NOT talk to me about bnet 2.0 when you dont know a thing about it, just dont. I've said thousand of times, ppl are only making fool of themselves when they are not aware of something and talk and ive wasted lots of hours on bnet 2.0 topics..

No real138 I feel completely indifferent towards Dota. Im not complaining about the game, it is great, but about the Bnet2.0. It's ppls prob that they take it as a complaint, the only thing I fully complain about for a reason is bnet 2.0,. neither this map system, nor the editor, nor anything else (although there are probs with them i consider them minor to even mention)

I honestly dont care about the maps price, it just irritates me inside to see people starting to put prices as if they are the ones that should decide how valuable it is. Only Blizzard should decide if a map is that good to be with a price, that's what Im saying. What's up with that?

Just because you fanbooys are too blind to see problems and kiss Blizzard feet, is your problem.

More..

You think it is me the one who is some whiner bla bla bla..?? See yourself, that's what I mean I hate ppl that dont even see the issues and talk crap:

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25399921649&sid=3000&pageNo=1

We're painfully aware.

I won't make any excuses as to why forum communication took a dive, but it seems that we're starting to get our heads above water again and hopefully we can get our activity in all of our forums back up (SC2 isn't the only place that has suffered). I don't know. Maybe that's being too optimistic.

Personally I've really been waiting to get our information and responses solidified for the big key issues. There's almost no point in posting unless we can hit the main concerns. It's in the works. Soon. And all that.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25399622281&sid=3000

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25399821931&sid=3000

Dont get me started with other forums in The World

 

[HINDYhat]

Blind fanboys are typical robots and can be controlled in any way, I was quite clear with my opinion on fanboys.

Similarly, I can predict that whatever comes out of your mouth will be the opposite of what Blizzard does.

Only Blizzard should decide if a map is that good to be with a price, that's what Im saying. What's up with that?

So what? Say Blizzard aren't the ones who set the prices, and some mapmaker decides to set his map price to 5$. If you're so unhappy that his map costs the highest possible price, just don't buy it. If you like the map too much that you can't refuse, it's obviously a very good map and in this situation, I wouldn't mind paying the 5$.

Also, so wait, you're bashing on Blizzard and saying that they don't make good decisions... but you're also saying that Blizzard should be the ones who decide how much a map costs? Explain to me how that works again?

 

[real138]

haha I'm not a blizzard fan-boy don't get me wrong. I have my own list of problems with all this stuff but Its still beta and i shall wait before its released before i start complaining. I don't think we can judge the premium map system for now since it has not been released. We can only ASSUME how it will be.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

If you will call me some whiner, learn the facts first god damn it, go through beta forums and Sc2dgdf from May, then come back. Done with map price topic too. Discussion is made with someone who understands it, if im talking to a rock, it is pointless.

 

[Draconic_Wolf]

Personaly I would spend the time and effort to make high quality map for use, but the editor still is giving problem when copying a unit.

If could add models to my units easier I would be working on a good map now.

 

[Cweener]

Personaly I would spend the time and effort to make high quality map for use, but the editor still is giving problem when copying a unit.

I got few great ideas for a map but two things are stoping me.

One damned editor with its hard to use actor system and two damn flaming people like terran here.

If could add models to my units easier I would be working on a good map now.

Irrelevant post is irrelevant, and wrong.

It's wrong because, I don't see how the Terran is stopping you. Unless, ofc, he's there now. My guess is he's not though.

This thread is for things relating to the price of maps, not criticizing the Terran on his views without support, and definitely not for whining about the editor.

Get on-topic.

 

[Doctor-Pepper]

This thread is for things relating to the price of maps, not criticizing the Terran on his views without support, and definitely not for whining about the editor.

Get on-topic.

I dont think that this thread is about bashing people that are bashing TheTerran, so same goes to you.
As for me, this thread is not about Cweener, bashing people, who are bashing TheTerran, so i'll get on topic too.

I love the fact that mapmakers can generate a lil income. I am paying 60 euro a year for web hosting right now, would be nice to get some of that back. Also, this way my team can start organizing contests, rewarding active members and so much more.
And if our maps suck and are overpriced, we will probably generate 0.0€ , that is just how free market works.

 

[real138]

Exactly Pepper. Our team is paying for a license, server, etc.(Twif is paying for it as of now) Our modellers have to buy programs to model, artists might have to buy photoshop, tablets, etc. It's not like this stuff comes free.
As Pepper said we could have tournaments and actually give out MONEY rewards instead of ingame stuff.

 

[Avator]

I quickly browsed the posts and checked the info on internet and quite frankly, the solution is as simple as can be:

Blizzard doesn't pay the devs by % or the map sales, but they pay the devs a set amount of money and can keep any money from the sales for themselves. That way it's all in Blizzard's hands to make sure only the really good ones are chosen and to promote the premium maps. This will make the devs happy with a set amount of money if they accept, and the price of the map balances itself out with the offer/demand system between Blizzard and the map buyers.
If the prices for a map are too high, few players will buy it and Blizzard should decide to lower the price for that map. Same count for when a lot of people are buying the map, which will result in an increase of the price.

However, Blizzard has to make sure that payment to devs is available for EVERY modder. Should the realize the market doesn't work, then the devs who already sold their maps to Blizzard have their money and those who didn't get that service in time will not get anything.

 

[Bibendus]

Hello guys, I'm the creator of D&D 3.5 Calim River for WC3 and my map did over 100.000 downloads in 4 years and it's actually the 4th downloaded map on incgamers.
Do you want to know how much donations did I get for 2 years of work?

1$

I'm not joking... that's the total income of all my work.


I said that to show you a valid reason for blizz to support developers with this maps market.

 

[Avator]

We've already discussed that here...

Imagine that you would've sold your map to go premium and get $0.20 for each download. Then you wouldn't even get $1, because instead of 100k downloads, you get 3. People are not interested in a map they have to pay for if they already payed for the game to play it on.

By the way, I think the Battle.net 2.0 market will become pretty much the same as the real gaming market: Hacked and illegally downloaded for free... So you wouldn't make any money of it either way if you only get payed per sale.

 

[real138]

lol Avator people will buy don't worry about that...
thats like saying people won't buy apps for a Iphone.

 

[Avator]

Of course people will buy, but that's only a select few. It's not like you'll get even 10% of the downloads you'd get when it's free to play.

 

[Bibendus]

We've already discussed that here...

Imagine that you would've sold your map to go premium and get $0.20 for each download. Then you wouldn't even get $1, because instead of 100k downloads, you get 3. People are not interested in a map they have to pay for if they already payed for the game to play it on.

By the way, I think the Battle.net 2.0 market will become pretty much the same as the real gaming market: Hacked and illegally downloaded for free... So you wouldn't make any money of it either way if you only get payed per sale.

The fact YOU are not interested in a sold map doesn't mean that ALL think like you.
The hacking will be a problem but will give more problems to single player maps, multi still need to be played on b.net soo you must pay for it

 

[real138]

yeah that is true you will get less. But you will still get more than 3 as you said. If its a quality map and was free you would see that the download total in like 1 year would be 100,000 about. Now lets say 5% of those people willing to pay. $5,000 x $0.40 = $2,000
now split between lets say a 4 man team 500 dollars per members. it still generates quite some money.

 

[Avator]

Dude, read the past 6 pages... I'm not the only one who thinks so <_<

 

[I-am-murloc]

You wont have like anyone to play the premium maps with when you host them

 

[Bibendus]

Of course people will buy, but that's only a select few. It's not like you'll get even 10% of the downloads you'd get when it's free to play.

In any case 100$ > 1$ xD