Round Table of Arkain

Kasrkin

Hosted Project: LoA
Level 18
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
784
I pretty much stopped using towers so much for this book cause everything does a lot of damage. The most I've ever built would've been on the Red Day protecting one of my town halls from flier attacks.
 
Level 3
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
43
I pretty much stopped using towers so much for this book cause everything does a lot of damage. The most I've ever built would've been on the Red Day protecting one of my town halls from flier attacks.
your design on orcs unit is good ,many tank melee unit,
but unfortunately the enemy is red fist and golden guard which is stronger than orcs warror(elites,merciless,conqueror knight),
so the main disadvantages is without useful dps range unit and air force before ch9 for 8 food red dragon.
(big airballon is the dumpest unit,the war mech cant attack the ground unit in air form,bird is too costy for 4 units and weak armor)
and many spell casters,but without brilliant aura,no way to support so big mana consumption(ch13 can get a Archmage ring but too late)
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
74
What i like about the units is that there are many but unfortunately many are quite useless if it is a mission with a base since they are too weak or need too much food (i also wrote a bit about that in my feedbackk-post about the book)

units how they are listed in my editor (only if buildable)
Axethrower: ok but i prefer others
Bloodhound: why should i use them?
Elder: too much micromanagement
Gladiator: seems too expensive and has nothing special
Harpy: quite ok
Huntress: i see no reason against an ai but to have fun
Impaler: my favorite ranged ground unit (they are fast at the frontline)
Magi: quite ok
Marauder: i prefer impalers
Maulers: i prefer shield-bearers
Mystic: too much micromanagement
Outrunner: no right to exist
Overlord: good as buffer but keep him back
Red Dragon: nothing special
Big Red Dragon: op
Sapper: i did not used or tested them
Shieldbearer: best ground unit
Shredder: i prefer workers without food costs
Spiritcaller: not useful in my opinion
Golem: they exist
Tracker: ok if you have no other ranged units
War Zeppelin: in some missions they are awesome but dragons replace them
Windwitch: usually you have better units

Assassin: gnolls are useless
Batrider: ok to fill a flyer troop
Brawler: no right to exist
Grunt: no right to exist
Heahunter: in my ranking after the impaler
Necrolyte: in the first levels awesome (skeletons and counters paladins), later not
Raider: they exist
Shaman: good but pay attention to artillery
Demolisher: is focused too hard
Warden: maybe ok for the buff
Warlock: too much micro management and there are better casters
Warlord: ok to fill your army
Warmech: not affected by healing wards and focused early
Witch Doctor: best sorcerer (place one or two wards and move them back)
Kodo Beast: i missed them in later levels because of their aura

The problem with sorcerers is that they are focused by siege units when they see them. And then the siege units only focus on killing your sorcerers by ignoring EVERYTHING else witch makes many of them quite useless. You have to make them buff your units and then retreat at all costs. This is also the reason why i really like the witch doctors and often had no shamans or wardens.
The problem with towers: they are often focused but they grant you also a good support. I always tried to have some towers. They are quite usefull (or necessary) in e.g. "A dish servers cold" or the moghtar level
 
Level 13
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
219
I had a separate conversation with Shar on this topic, but wanted to share my thoughts to hear what others think. FYI, I've only made it through chapter 6, so I can only comment on the first third of the campaign.

The grueling nature of SOB chapters 4 and 6 exceeded all of the first books and the Second Human Book (yes, even Lord of Shadows where I at least felt a perpetual feeling of progress on that map even though it took longer than the SOB maps). Was it intended for this one to surpass previous installments in that regard? I expected this to match SHB, though I'm getting a different feel from these.

In the case of Ch. 4, I think it's less of an issue because I can see what this map is trying to do and like the idea of it. Some sort of progress indicator on the right bases would be immensely helpful to let the player know if they are on track or are on the slow decline to failure. Being in the know would save a lot of time because I would've gotten a sense to restart much earlier and try a different strategy rather than play for 60 minutes and THEN realize I probably should restart. For reference, I attacked the Imperials thinking it was the most logical place to expand seeing as the right bases were holding the demons; this was the wrong strategy for several reasons anyone who has played it will know. My issue on the map was NOT the enemy attacks as I've seen others complaining about. Rather, the left base being too close and having their giant defense force drawn into me when I have to go down there to destroy a purple catapult or something, discerning what strategies are viable with the very vague amount of time and resources available, having to attack up a single, tiny ramp to get to Purple's base, and a tiny choke point to get to Light Blue.

Ch. 6 was a different story and is a 1v5, sort of 1v6, but one AI only replaces pre-placed defensive junk (but why?). This map took me less time than Siege of Kome and Lord of Shadows, but felt so much more agonizing than both, possibly because my faction was bland and did not really change at all since Ch. 3. Lord of Shadows had no hero, but also was the first where you could make Elites with insane buffs you could apply to them. The attacks were also relatively mild, compared to five different factions attacking you with 1 min between at most and many times doubling up. Destroying Aedale with the first wave is quite challenging because of large preplaced Kasrkin that randomly decide to join in, but it's the only way to proceed. The enemy heroes are also extremely powerful, much too powerful IMO though that may partially be because it was very challenging for me to even find them in the giant defensive forces to put debuffs on them. Could something be done about the readability of these heroes in general that look like normal units otherwise?

I expect the future of the campaign will be much much much more to my liking because our force is growing and the faction will become hugely unique, but wanted to also give more context around how these two more infamous chapters went for me. I don't think these two maps were hugely egregious and need big changes, but maybe a couple very small ones instead to not go overboard.

I did beat them, I'm not complaining they necessarily need to be nerfed because I couldn't win or anything like that - they are indeed beatable. If anyone is struggling, make 8-12 casters and use Chain Lightning to defend on Ch. 4, then do literally nothing until you have so much Gold such that you could rebuild an army several times over as you attack Purple, ignore everything else. The items/tomes in the other bases are basically worthless, so don't lose any sleep over them. On Ch. 6 you absolutely MUST cripple one base at the beginning, and by cripple I mean Castle, Altar, and all workers dead. Then, no choice but to tower spam the rest of the map.
 
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Level 2
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
7
Jayborino I have to agree with on chapter 4 and 6 in the second orc book. I actually would like vision on the demons attacking the royal army and the regiments. The good strategy is using the several necrolytes like Jayborino says for lots of chainlightings.

Chapter 6 is beatable but i think the middle base was the base I had a problem with. The units kept being rebuilt by the top base by blen kept coming back into the middle making it hard to destroy the order of flame base and the top right karskin base. The karskin heroes I hated to fight so they were the top priority to take out first. Its managable to keep with multiple Ais attacking you but it was annoying.

Wait until you get to chapter 8 Jayborino good luck with that. You will know why when you get to it.
 
Level 8
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
104
Well, Jay, from now on, it is Dominion tech tree which will be unfolding, and it is quite nice one, with no lack of interesting units. That being said, the challenge will rise to match these opportunities... Best of luck, and best of the enjoyment.
 
Level 3
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
19
In chapter 4, early destruction of the north-western base makes the rest of the mission fairly easy (base with ranger hero). Then you can safely destroy all other bases listed in the quests. However, I was disappointed when it turned out that the northern wave of demons instead of helping me and attacking the gray base from north, attacked me instead ... This is so sad Alexa Play Despacito.

In chapter 6 is possible to ignore all bases and charge directly to Blen, then something happen ;p However not sure if it is just exploiting to finishing chapter this way ;p
 
Level 13
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
219
In chapter 4, early destruction of the north-western base makes the rest of the mission fairly easy (base with ranger hero). Then you can safely destroy all other bases listed in the quests. However, I was disappointed when it turned out that the northern wave of demons instead of helping me and attacking the gray base from north, attacked me instead ... This is so sad Alexa Play Despacito

Wait though, I thought you're saying you destroyed the top left? If that base is gone then the demons attacking your base should be expected, right?
 
Level 3
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
43
I had a separate conversation with Shar on this topic, but wanted to share my thoughts to hear what others think. FYI, I've only made it through chapter 6, so I can only comment on the first third of the campaign.

The grueling nature of SOB chapters 4 and 6 exceeded all of the first books and the Second Human Book (yes, even Lord of Shadows where I at least felt a perpetual feeling of progress on that map even though it took longer than the SOB maps). Was it intended for this one to surpass previous installments in that regard? I expected this to match SHB, though I'm getting a different feel from these.

In the case of Ch. 4, I think it's less of an issue because I can see what this map is trying to do and like the idea of it. Some sort of progress indicator on the right bases would be immensely helpful to let the player know if they are on track or are on the slow decline to failure. Being in the know would save a lot of time because I would've gotten a sense to restart much earlier and try a different strategy rather than play for 60 minutes and THEN realize I probably should restart. For reference, I attacked the Imperials thinking it was the most logical place to expand seeing as the right bases were holding the demons; this was the wrong strategy for several reasons anyone who has played it will know. My issue on the map was NOT the enemy attacks as I've seen others complaining about. Rather, the left base being too close and having their giant defense force drawn into me when I have to go down there to destroy a purple catapult or something, discerning what strategies are viable with the very vague amount of time and resources available, having to attack up a single, tiny ramp to get to Purple's base, and a tiny choke point to get to Light Blue.

Ch. 6 was a different story and is a 1v5, sort of 1v6, but one AI only replaces pre-placed defensive junk (but why?). This map took me less time than Siege of Kome and Lord of Shadows, but felt so much more agonizing than both, possibly because my faction was bland and did not really change at all since Ch. 3. Lord of Shadows had no hero, but also was the first where you could make Elites with insane buffs you could apply to them. The attacks were also relatively mild, compared to five different factions attacking you with 1 min between at most and many times doubling up. Destroying Aedale with the first wave is quite challenging because of large preplaced Kasrkin that randomly decide to join in, but it's the only way to proceed. The enemy heroes are also extremely powerful, much too powerful IMO though that may partially be because it was very challenging for me to even find them in the giant defensive forces to put debuffs on them. Could something be done about the readability of these heroes in general that look like normal units otherwise?

I expect the future of the campaign will be much much much more to my liking because our force is growing and the faction will become hugely unique, but wanted to also give more context around how these two more infamous chapters went for me. I don't think these two maps were hugely egregious and need big changes, but maybe a couple very small ones instead to not go overboard.

I did beat them, I'm not complaining they necessarily need to be nerfed because I couldn't win or anything like that - they are indeed beatable. If anyone is struggling, make 8-12 casters and use Chain Lightning to defend on Ch. 4, then do literally nothing until you have so much Gold such that you could rebuild an army several times over as you attack Purple, ignore everything else. The items/tomes in the other bases are basically worthless, so don't lose any sleep over them. On Ch. 6 you absolutely MUST cripple one base at the beginning, and by cripple I mean Castle, Altar, and all workers dead. Then, no choice but to tower spam the rest of the map.
pal you didnt experience the ch4 without health fountain.....

you will beat your keyboard for that

compare with SHB,orcs is extremely weak compare to it opponents,so that a lot of tricks and stealth is necessary to use,which is not need in human boooks
 
Level 13
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
219
pal you didnt experience the ch4 without health fountain.....

you will beat your keyboard for that

compare with SHB,orcs is extremely weak compare to it opponents,so that a lot of tricks and stealth is necessary to use,which is not need in human boooks

I did not rely on the fountain much. You will notice my feedback of the map was very different from yours.


On an entirely separate note, I can only hope Sir Bubblerino is smart enough to avoid joining up with Praxeus and the GG since Salomar is still alive in my playthrough. Gotta use that bubble against the true enemy, not the humble player character!

Did anyone else actually leave Salomar's base alive at the end of FOB? Those Paladins were a pain in the butt.
 
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Level 8
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
104
I did not rely on the fountain much. You will notice my feedback of the map was very different from yours.


On an entirely separate note, I can only hope Sir Bubblerino is smart enough to avoid joining up with Praxeus and the GG since Salomar is still alive in my playthrough. Gotta use that bubble against the true enemy, not the humble player character!

Did anyone else actually leave Salomar's base alive at the end of FOB? Those Paladins were a pain in the butt.

Well, updates always got me to drift away from that final chapter before I could do it, but I very much intend to spare them, so I can make 'justify' making that choice in the prologue of that book.
You also have no idea about how much I want to discuss your other point.
Also, I guess you had the occasion to try at least a little the Dominion tech tree by now, Jay. What do you think of it so far?
 
Level 3
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
43
I did not rely on the fountain much. You will notice my feedback of the map was very different from yours.


On an entirely separate note, I can only hope Sir Bubblerino is smart enough to avoid joining up with Praxeus and the GG since Salomar is still alive in my playthrough. Gotta use that bubble against the true enemy, not the humble player character!

Did anyone else actually leave Salomar's base alive at the end of FOB? Those Paladins were a pain in the butt.
you wont see him at ch14 SOB
 
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LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

So, with Kasrkin gone, whos going to do all the beta testing? Hard to find some as skilled and patient.
 
Level 3
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
38
Nooooooo Karskin, you still did not show your time of playthrough for the lord of shadow D:, nah kidding. Hope you are well and resolve your stuff well.
 

Shar Dundred

Hosted Project: LoA
Level 57
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
5,269
@Kasrkin has been a great help and I highly appreciate the time & effort he put into his testing.
I wish him only the best.

So, with Kasrkin gone, whos going to do all the beta testing? Hard to find some as skilled and patient.
I am not going to replace Kasrkin. Instead, I am going to do more testing myself before releasing
demos.
 

LickMyEyeBall

L

LickMyEyeBall

@Kasrkin has been a great help and I highly appreciate the time & effort he put into his testing.
I wish him only the best.


I am not going to replace Kasrkin. Instead, I am going to do more testing myself before releasing
demos.
That sounds like an awful lot of work for one man.
 
Level 3
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
47
And he isn't meant to be playable, Thanok is also in cutscenes byt have you ever played him?

Thanok and Ephrog are the most powerful characters in the game if they were to break free and the four could not stop them! (ok I stop with the bad joke) I think they are not playable because they would make the missions easier by reducing their difilcultad.

among other things now I feel Dismayed since Karshin is not with us for now, Shar will get twice as much work, on the other hand it is a good revenge, I did not like that Aedale could not be saved from Lisara and the Dark One! :mad: #PoorAedale :oops:

Now Shar has to go to the same infiero that he used to send to Karshin.:p
 

Shar Dundred

Hosted Project: LoA
Level 57
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
5,269
There's quite a few characters that are not playable, I mean look at Theoden, Birram and Marin i. e. ;)

Now Shar has to go to the same infiero that he used to send to Karshin.:p
I was already doing testing before. :p
However not as thoroughly as Kasrkin used to do when he was still at 100% capacity back in the day.

Btw, for those of you who want to see the absolutely amazing loading screens made by @Rhapsodie,
I have added them to the Second Human Book album!
 
Level 3
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
38
Brought a tear in my eye. Awesome artwork! Lord of shadows art map is so damn nice
 

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Level 27
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
316
I have been wondering...
If you guys could choose an (or several) Arkain character(s) to fight in a boss battle, who would it be?
Or who would you like to see in a duel?

For a boss fight I would love to see : Thanok, Gardon, Aridon.

About the duel I don t know to be honest, Gardon vs Renald, The 4 gods fighting each other. :peasant-thinking:
 

Shar Dundred

Hosted Project: LoA
Level 57
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
5,269
That's some interesting combinations!
Would you mind sharing more with me & why you think they should fight in a duel or why they
would make for an interesting boss battle?

Gonna play with open cards here, I intend to add some more interesting fights to some characters
in the future (i. e. Gardon, Renald, Redfist) so I wanted to hear your thoughts regarding the matter. :)
 
Level 22
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
1,677
Vail vs Lady Meya: Royalty vs Former Royalty

Meya, judging from her bio at least, grew up quite rich and was loved by a lot of people. Vail didn't have that in her early life. Although it's a stretch, Meya may want to eliminate Vail at some point because she reminds her way too much of her previous life. Of course, she will have to wait for Aridon's approval before attempting it.
-----------------
Thanok vs Sir Edoarus: Executioner vs Executioner ( yeah, Thanok is a commander, but still, he also brings the pikes and participates in some of the executions)

Aridon won't leave Zyainor alone forever. He would want to cripple them at some point. Sending Edoarus, a person who can get the job done, at Thanok would be a good start. Both also seem pretty brutal, so that will make their fight extra interesting.
------------
Birram vs Zairmak: A mage using unholy magic vs A warlock who uses unholy magic

Zyainor and the Dominion won't have everlasting peace. And once war breaks out between the two, they would want their best magic wielders commanding their spellcasters on the frontline.
-------------
Flammedus vs Harmos: Flamecaller vs Firemage

When the kingdom of Rengar removes the plague, the Dominion will most likely begin raiding it again. Sooner or later, the order of the flame will get involved. Flammedus, hearing stories about them in battle, will be quite curious and will most likely, at some point, want to face them. Hearing that the centaur leader will get involved in the raids, Harmos will come to face him.
-----------
Lord Brian vs Krom: Ancient being vs Ancient being ( Brian isn't exactly ancient, but the lord of shadows, who's currently in his body is)

Aridon will send his most trusted assassin at Gardon, at some point. I doubt Brian would just stand there and do nothing. He will intercept and stop Krom from attempting to kill him.
-------------
Gardon vs Amari: Ca'laer ( pretty much emperor) vs Empress, Apprentice vs Apprentice, Shadow magic user vs Shadow magic user

Just like I mentioned before, peace between the Dominion and Zyainor being permanent is impossible. Even Brian will have a hard time keeping it at some point. The rest is pretty self-explanatory. The soldiers will need their best commanders in a war like this and Gardon and Amari will inevitably clash.
-------------
Brockta vs The Fleshtearer or Haran'tel-kazor: Juggernaut vs Juggernaut

The undead aren't finished with the Dominion and will fight them again in the future. If they want to eliminate or defeat someone like Brockta, they at least need something of equal size and strength. The Fleshtearer or Haran'tel-kazor would fit that role pretty well.
---------------
Praxeus vs Lord Margazar: Honourable Paladin vs Honourable Demon

Aridon will most likely want to stop Praxeus, since he doesn't exactly like mortals to have strong items in them. Margazar, having watched Praxeus in previous battles, seems his as an honourable warrior and volunteers to fight him. Aridon grants him his wish. And they fight soon after. Nothing too special about this one, but I see it as a fight that would fit Margazar's character.
 
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Level 6
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
160
Gonna play with open cards here, I intend to add some more interesting fights to some characters
in the future (i. e. Gardon, Renald, Redfist) so I wanted to hear your thoughts regarding the matter. :)
What those fights will look like? Will they be placed in Second Undead Book or will you just make additional map like Arena where everyone could fight with anyone?
 
Level 27
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
316
Vail vs Lady Meya: Royalty vs Former Royalty

Meya, judging from her bio at least, grew up quite rich and was loved by a lot of people. Vail didn't have that in her early life. Although it's a stretch, Meya may want to eliminate Vail at some point because she reminds her way too much of her previous life. Of course, she will have to wait for Aridon's approval before attempting it.
-----------------
Thanok vs Sir Edoarus: Executioner vs Executioner ( yeah, Thanok is a commander, but still, he also brings the pikes and participates in some of the executions)

Aridon won't leave Zyainor alone forever. He would want to cripple them at some point. Sending Edoarus, a person who can get the job done, at Thanok would be a good start. Both also seem pretty brutal, so that will make their fight extra interesting.
------------
Birram vs Zairmak: A mage using unholy magic vs A warlock who uses unholy magic

Zyainor and the Dominion won't have everlasting peace. And once war breaks out between the two, they would want their best magic wielders commanding their spellcasters on the frontline.
-------------
Flammedus vs Harmos: Flamecaller vs Firemage

When the kingdom of Rengar removes the plague, the Dominion will most likely begin raiding it again. Sooner or later, the order of the flame will get involved. Flammedus, hearing stories about them in battle, will be quite curious and will most likely, at some point, want to face them. Hearing that the centaur leader will get involved in the raids, Harmos will come to face him.
-----------
Lord Brian vs Krom: Ancient being vs Ancient being ( Brian isn't exactly ancient, but the lord of shadows, who's currently in his body is)

Aridon will send his most trusted assassin at Gardon, at some point. I doubt Brian would just stand there and do nothing. He will intercept and stop Krom from attempting to kill him.
-------------
Gardon vs Amari: Ca'laer ( pretty much emperor) vs Empress, Apprentice vs Apprentice, Shadow magic user vs Shadow magic user

Just like I mentioned before, peace between the Dominion and Zyainor being permanent is impossible. Even Brian will have a hard time keeping it at some point. The rest is pretty self-explanatory. The soldiers will need their best commanders in a war like this and Gardon and Amari will inevitably clash.
-------------
Brockta vs The Fleshtearer or Haran'tel-kazor: Juggernaut vs Juggernaut

The undead aren't finished with the Dominion and will fight them again in the future. If they want to eliminate or defeat someone like Brockta, they at least need something of equal size and strength. The Fleshtearer or Haran'tel-kazor would fit that role pretty well.
---------------
Praxeus vs Lord Margazar: Honourable Paladin vs Honourable Demon

Aridon will most likely want to stop Praxeus, since he doesn't exactly like mortals to have strong items in them. Margazar, having watched Praxeus in previous battles, seems his as an honourable warrior and volunteers to fight him. Aridon grants him his wish. And they fight soon after. Nothing too special about this one, but I see it as a fight that would fit Margazar's character.

I like everything you said ! :D

Other nice duels could be:
Brian vs Rahandir

If I remember in the FUB Rahandir remembered something familiar about the amulets being used to mindcontrol ( he may have talked anout the Master of Shadows), I think it would be an interesting fight.

Queen Keera vs Queen Larine

Nothing much to explain on this.

Praxeus vs Gardon :rolleyes:
 
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