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Parents of Arkain

Discussion in 'The Legends of Arkain Series' started by Shar Dundred, Jan 20, 2020.

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  1. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    In this thread, I want to try something new.
    I am not asking who of the following mothers/fathers is the best, I am asking you how you
    personally would rank them.
    I have picked the nine best known characters of Arkain who have been revealed to be parents,
    either in the campaign or in the short stories from the Tales of Arkain so far (I am not saying that these characters are the "only" parental figures
    in Arkain so far, here, take that for speculation. :-]).
    And now I am asking you to rank them - you can use a point system or simply words.
    I am curious: Who is the BEST of them? Let me know!
    1. Duke Volarian Redfist - The Loving Father
    2. Gardon Bloodclaw - The Ca'laer
    3. King Dorten - The old King
    4. Merlon Seabright - The single Admiral
    5. Renald van Durce - The High Lord Inquisitor
    6. Zarin Hammerfall - The High King of the Dwarves
    7. Rangul - Warchief of the Deathbreeze
    8. Queen Renova - Queen of the Elves
    9. Queen Keera - Fallen Queen of the Elves
    10. Queen Kasraazs - Queen of the Black Dragons

    And discuss! :p
     
  2. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    10. Queen Kasraazs.
    lol

    Well, I reckon this character has the most children both in power and number of anyone else on Arkain.
     
  3. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    She was on the list but I decided to remove her because... Nevermind, she is back. :p
     
  4. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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  5. LISBOAH

    LISBOAH

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    Only in an opposite universe. XD

    These, to me, are the top candidates.

    His daughter is the Queen of the Pirates, and Merlon is no Monkey D. Garp, so no...

    He is?! The poor child...

    Nope. I expect his daughter to kill him before he drags the entire kingdom with him to the grave.

    Let's see. His daughter was successful, but you could say that 'Lord Brian' deserves the credits rather than Rangul, and the son that was at his side the longest is a coward and an incompetent.

    No idea. Require more information.
     
  6. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Whatever he would have been if the Orcs had not attacked that mansion, eh?
    I am curious about the reasons for this.
    Ouch. XD
     
  7. LISBOAH

    LISBOAH

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    Indeed. Like always, the pre-Dominion orcs had the nasty habit of ruining things for everyone.

    Gardon: From what I read in the 'short stories' he seems to care for all of his children, and if he neglects some, I don't think he means to. It is good to see that he tries his best to be a good father while ruling a recently-made kingdom.
    Dorten: His son doesn't seem to have issues, so...
    Renova: She was more concerned with keeping her babies safe rather than her own well-being and even made a deal with Rahandir to keep them safe.
     
  8. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    He is not the best father on the list, true.
    Not sure if you can blame him for Sasrogarn though. :p
    And he still kinda raised Amari.
    On Keera I can suggest reading her & Renova's character sheet.
    Kasraazs is hard to judge, I know.
    True, true.
    She was under a spell by someone who is not Rahandir though. :p
     
  9. Championfighter25

    Championfighter25

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    I'm going to judge a parent using these 5 characteristics. I'm confident Redfist can get a 25 out of 25 pretty easily :
    1. Positive Role Model
    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy
    3. Affection towards his children
    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong
    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way

    Duke Volarian Redfist - The Loving Father

    1.Positive Role Model - Eh... well, uh... he does inspire his soldiers pretty well. His children... no, just no. Sorry. 0/5

    2.Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - He mostly doesn't care what his children do. For all the wrong reasons, he's way too respectful in that manner. 5/5

    3.Affection towards his children - He's ok towards Orie, but everyone else... he can try to improve. 0.5/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - Aridon will wither away by the time Redfist begins to manage his stress properly. 0/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - If only, if only... 0/5

    Total - 5.5/25 ( He can burn some orcs to calm himself down)
    =======================
    Gardon Bloodclaw - The Ca'laer

    1. Positive Role Model - He seemed like a cool dad in Heirs of Zyainor Vol. 1 and 2. Definitely not the mindless butcher that you see in the campaigns. 5/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - He pretty much pre-placed them in the army, but when we exclude that, he allows them to do whatever they wish. Unfortunately, this has also lead to the children from Larine's side to not grow up in the best of conditions 3.5/5

    3. Affection towards his children - He smiled at Zurae, which means he can be happy with them. He also showed understanding and affection towards Velina. For now, he can have his 5/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - I can't think of any good examples. Can't rate/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - He was calm and gave good replies to Zurae and Velina. 5/5

    Total - 18.5/25
    =============
    Zarin Hammerfall - The High King of the Dwarves

    1. Positive Role Model - He teaches them to dislike humans, which is pretty bad. But, I'm gonna cut him some slack because he also probably teaches them to act in the dwarves' best interest. 4/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - Can't say/5

    3. Affection towards his children - I'm sure he loves them. However, his impulsiveness can be sickening 3/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - The example with his daughter is the only one we have currently available. And that was pretty bad. 0/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - Not as bad as Redfist, but he does get the runner-up 0/5

    Total 7/25
    ====================
    Merlon Seabright - The Single Admiral

    1. Positive Role Model - He really wasn't there for her. 0/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - He definitely allowed her to do whatever she wished. In a very wrong way, but you can't say he held her back 5/5

    3. Affection towards his children - Can't say/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - Can't say/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - Can't say/5

    Total - 5/25
    =====================
    Renald van Durce - The High Lord Inquisitor

    1. Positive Role Model - When he wanted to, he could be. Unfortunately, he rarely showed that side. 1/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - Ultimately, he was very respectful, even if he knew it was the wrong way. 5/5

    3. Affection towards his children - He can be pretty caring when he wants to. It, unfortunately, didn't happen too often 2/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - He could be both angry and calm when he wanted to. 3/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - He tried. 2/5

    Total - 13/25
    ========================
    King Dorten - The Old King

    1. Positive Role Model - Can't say/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - He hasn't been shown to limit them and tell them exactly what to do. 5/5

    3. Affection towards his children - He has been shown to care. 5/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - Can't say/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - He has been shown as pretty calm when talking to them. 5/5

    Total - 15/25
    =====================
    Rangul - Warchief of the Deathbreeze

    1. Positive Role Model - He had some good ideas, but he was ultimately more of a traditional orc to his children in a time where you didn't need them. 2/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - I can't think of a time where he limited what they could do. 5/5

    3. Affection towards his children - He has been shown to care. Unfortunately, due to Amari's past, I can't give him a high score. 3/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - Can't say/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - A shame he only gained that ability in the SOB. 2.5/5

    Total - 12.5/25
    =====================
    Queen Renova - Queen of the Elves

    1. Positive Role Model - Considering her character in the SHB, she wouldn't have been the best role model. Telling your kids to rely on others to fix their problems would have been really bad advice. And just running away when all seems lost isn't the best advice either. 0/5

    2. Respectfulness towards her children's autonomy - I'm certain she wouldn't have been as bad as her mother, but I can't say for certain. Can't say/5

    3. Affection towards her children - She seemed to show some care. Giving them to Rahandir impulsively would normally be a pretty bad idea, but it turned out well. 3/5

    4. Managing her stress when her children have done something wrong - Can't say/5

    5. Ability to communicate with her children in the right way - Can't say/5

    Total - 3/25 ( Ouch)
    ===================
    Queen Keera - Fallen Queen of the Elves

    1. Positive Role Model - Like mother like daughter. She hasn't given Renova the best traits. 0/5

    2. Respectfulness towards her children's autonomy - She locked her up because she disobeyed her. 0/5

    3. Affection towards his children - Locked Renova up for 3 years without showing pity. 0/5

    4. Managing stress when her children have done something wrong - No. 0/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - No. 0/5

    Total - 0/25 ( At least her daughter can boast that she was a better mother)
    ==============================================
    Shar Dundred - The illustrious Father of all Arkain

    1. Positive Role Model - I haven't seen him teach them or show them anything. :p Can't say/5

    2. Respectfulness towards his children's autonomy - He's created such an enormous free for all that you can't even begin describing his respectfulness towards their autonomy. 99999999999999999999999/5

    3. Affection towards his children - He loves them all the same. Except for maybe Sasrogarn. 5/5

    4. Managing stress when his children have done something wrong - He can never get angry no matter what they do. Just look at Volarian and Aridon as examples. 5/5

    5. Ability to communicate with his children in the right way - He's so good he doesn't even need to do it. 5/5

    Total - Way too good/5
    ===================
    Queen Kasraazs - Can't really say anything due to the lack of info.

    TLDR

    1. Gardon - 18.5/25
    2. King Dorten - 15/25
    3. The douche with too many titles to list Renald van Durce - 13/25
    4. Rangul - 12.5/25
    5. Zarin - 7/25
    6. Volarian Redfist - 5.5/25
    7. Merlon - 5/25
    8. Queen Renova - 3/25
    9. Queen Keera - 0/25
    Not enough info or too good to list - Queen Kasraazs and Shar Dundred.
     
  10. Hardric62

    Hardric62

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    Okay, let's try that classment thingie:

    1) Queen Kasraazs - Queen of the Black Dragons: Got this nice continent for her kind, twice. Nuff' said.
    2) King Dorten - The old King: All seemed smooth beofre plot happened.
    3) Gardon Bloodclaw - The Ca'laer: He does try to take time for all of them, even the illegitimate one. It remains to see how it goes in the future (poor cinnamon roll Parlea and her descent into sadism comes to mind).
    4) Renald van Durce - The High Lord Inquisitor: Well, the more we see is him rescuing his son-in-law. Dunno about more here.
    5) Queen Renova - Queen of the Elves: Dunno how much of that care was spell, but it was still there. Still a Crap Ruler, but see that with Number 9.
    6) Zarin Hammerfall - The High King of the Dwarves: Theoretically nice relationship, but headbutting over politics. Dunno about the dead ones.
    7) Rangul - Warchief of the Deathbreeze: As above, but several magnitudes worst.
    8) Merlon Seabright - The single Admiral: Wasn't there, period.
    9) Queen Keera - Fallen Queen of the Elves: Source of her daughter's problems, fusing Crap Mother and Crap Ruler.
    10) Duke Volarian Redfist - The Loving Father: Do I really need to spell it out loud?
     
  11. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    I may actually steal parts of your rating system when I do my own list, @Championfighter25. :p
    (Yes, I will write my own list!)

    He DOES communicate with them though!
    Oh, the right way.... Forget it.
    The things children do to you! Gardon even SMILED!
    Zyainor needs a strong dynasty.
    Larine's children DID get the shorter end of the stick, yeah. Especially if you look at poor Parlea.
    (If you actually CAN look....)
    He did not give the best impression by being a strict traditionalist, yeah.
    Sadly so. Too late too.
    Pretty sure he was very shocked and stressed when Toraes was lost behind enemy lines
    Then again, you cannot blame this on Toraes. Or Dorten, really.
    He wanted Orcs to change, but too little. Then it was too late for him to change more.
    Who knows what parents he and Redfist could have been - oh the irony!
    Vanessa also kind of counts as his child since he adopted her (you could say that she counts for
    both him and the best father Redfist at the same time), and he did not like some of the things
    she said.
    Yeah, I see where you are coming from here.
    Goddamnit. I love it and laughed longer than I care to admit. XD
    A very nice explanation & rating system. As I said, I think I will steal that for my own here. :p

    And then plot happened. Poor old Dorten.
    His daughter was at the very least angry enough to travel to Arkain to find his murderer.
    Larine is the first efficient elven ruler in a long time. :D
    Nah, we all know he was the best dad. His "Best Dad of the World" cup proves that.
    He used it to punch his children, I hear...
     
  12. Kasrkin

    Kasrkin

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    1. The best dad, proud owner of the father of the century coffee mug. Currently in the lead to win the millenium mug.
    2. A good dad, has had to deal with too much shit. The years to just sit down and think have been both good and bad for him as a human being.
    3. Like Gardon he's had to deal with a lot but he's been good to his kids so despite his many failings there is that.
    4. He was going to try when the war was over.
    5. An arrogant asshole but he still cared, just a shame it took so long for care to trump duty and pride.
    6. Zarin does the best he can in a traditional society.
    7. Ha
    8. Nope
    9. God damn no
    10. Not a peep from me on this.
     
  13. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Still gotta find a replacement for the current one, mate! It fell when @Jayborino did that disstrack!
    True.
    Weren't they just great?
     
  14. KuraTheKura20033002

    KuraTheKura20033002

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    we all know that real number 1.
    He is dad of everyone in Arkain
     
  15. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Redfist does not have THAT many children. ;)
     
  16. KuraTheKura20033002

    KuraTheKura20033002

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    ohoho I am not talking about Redfist

    it someone who's name starts with S and end with har Dundred :)
     
  17. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Alright, time for my list. I have decided to make it less numeric with different categories and
    instead judge the overall character in his parental figure.

    Duke Volarian Redfist - The Loving Father
    Duke Redfist is, without any doubt, the best parental figure in all of Arkain. He is loving, caring,
    patient, proud of his children, joyful and the perfect image of a father in all ages.
    Okay, joking aside, I am sure everyone in this forum, even the Redfist fans who think he did
    nothing wrong, knows that he is not that person - not anymore that is, we will never know
    what kind of father he would have been if Rangul had not raided that mansion. I will tell you,
    however, that he really was what he told Rangul before he killed him: Redfist was a better man,
    a good man. The day he lost is family was the day that broke him. He never found the same
    love and happiness he had with Stephanie and Vanessa with his new family and was consumed
    by his pure anger. Orie is the only child that he actually doesn't dislike and actually treats relatively
    well.
    So, he used to have the ability to become a great father and lost it when Rangul took his first
    family from him and became a bad father instead.

    1/5

    ==================================================

    Gardon Bloodclaw - The Ca'laer
    Despite him not really giving the impression of a good father during the war, Gardon turned out
    to be a caring and loving father. His own childhood has taught him many hard-learned lessons
    and he tries to be a better father than his own was, this is shown especially in his treatment
    of Velina, I think that made it very apparent how he felt about her and Parlea.
    You can also say that his children (along with many other factors during and after the war)
    had an impact on his personality - he is still Gardon, don't worry. After the war, he also had
    time to think about things and, as @Kasrkin already said, it was both good and bad for him.
    There's some hints regarding this in the existing short stories about the time after the war.
    At the same time, he is still in charge of a large human nation and has almost no time for anything.
    He still makes the time.
    In my opinion, Gardon is doing as good as he can. He may not be the best example from a moral
    standpoint, I think we can all see that given how he deals with problems, but he is caring.
    And goddamnit, his children managed to make him smile, Birram was actually worried about them
    and even Thanok, that cold-hearted and hot-tempered dragon, felt pride.

    5/5

    ==================================================

    King Dorten - The old King
    His son's disappearanace hit Dorten very hard, so he definitely cared a great deal for him.
    So he does for his daughter (and now heir) Felicia. He became older and weaker as time went
    by and later left most matters to his daughters, having absolute trust in her persona and abilities.
    Dorten loves both his son and his daughter and still silently hopes that he will see his son again
    one day though he feels that it is a foolish thing to believe in and therefore keeps his hope to himself.

    5/5

    ==================================================

    Merlon Seabright - The single Admiral
    There is not much to be said about Merlon's qualifications as a parent. He was with her mother and left her.
    He never had the chance to be a father. If he had survived the events of the war, he would have tried
    to meet with his daughter to try and make up with her - it would have been hard but he would have tried.

    0/5

    ==================================================

    Renald van Durce - The High Lord Inquisitor
    I did not really show much interaction between the Lord Inquisitor and his daughter. However, given
    that his daughter took it upon her to travel all the way over to Arkain to find the murderer of her father
    (and of her husband too) shows that she either cared for the High Lord or at the very least feels obliged
    to do that - meaning that she did not openly hate him. Knowing Renald's character, it goes without
    saying that she may not have "loved" him but he still was her father and, despite his character flaws,
    he was not a bad man. He could have lived in peace and luxury and instead took up his armor and weapon
    to fight.
    However, since we cannot talk that much about his daughter, let us talk about him and his step-son.
    It is pretty easy to see that the two disliked each other. Gardon hated van Durce's arrogance and
    his open dislike of the "bastard" Gardon. Van Durce on the other hand did not trust Gardon and did not
    hesitate when he was ordered to send Gardon into a trap - at the same time he did not personally deal
    with Gardon to give the latter a chance to prove himself. When he finally realized that he had been wrong,
    he felt nothing but guilt and wanted to give Gardon a chance to leave, to stop the conflict. But at that
    point, it had been too late, neither faction was willing to give the other an inch and so the battle was inevitable.
    And van Durce lost that battle yet Gardon did not feel satisfied and instead, deep in his heart, felt sorrow.
    Many years later, Gardon would even wish that there had been a better way to solve the situation.
    The thing that Gardon did not know, that van Durce kept to himself even in his final hours, is that Renald,
    below his arrogance, his pride and his massive ego, CARED for the bastard prince which was the true reason
    why he had hesitated to fight against Gardon himself. When Gardon was still young, Renald had been
    hard on the boy because he had wanted him to be the very best, feeling that Gardon could be exactly that:
    the best of them all. Since Gardon's true father had pretty much ignored Gardon apart from letting him rise
    through the ranks, Renald was the only one who really gave Gardon a reason to train (before Gardon had fully
    embraced the dark arts taught by Brian). The hatred Gardon had felt for van Durce was what kept him going
    for a long time. Renald was the one who truly encouraged Gardon to be more than just a bastard.
    Does this make him a good father? Not really but it shows that there is more than meets the eye.
    In the end, you could say, that Renald cared more about Gardon than the old Emperor.

    3/5

    ==================================================

    Zarin Hammerfall - The High King of the Dwarves
    Zarin did not give the best impression as a caring parent in his short story. He cut his daughter short and
    was rather repellent, however, this is to blame more on his troubled mind and the tradionalist ways of his
    people than being a bad father.
    The Dwarves are traditionalist people. While family is important in their society, first and foremost Zarin
    was their high king. That meant that he was not supposed to be apporoached just like that - and dwarven
    visitors were expected only to speak when asked to, even if they are kin. In public, children were also
    not to interrupt their parents.
    Apart from this, Zarin loved his children. However, it has also hardened him that now his daughter is all
    that remains within the Dwarven lands that he can consider close kin. His wife died giving childbirth to
    his daughter. Zarin is not a bad father, but he certainly is not the best.

    2/5

    ==================================================

    Rangul - Warchief of the Deathbreeze
    The future of both his family and his people has always been the most important thing to Rangul. He took
    care of his children and raised them - he also raised Vanessa as his own daughter although she was not
    only not his own child but also of another race - a race his people were at war with. He also would have
    accepted Amari if he hadn't been forced to send her away when the rest of the clan found out about her
    tendencies. While he loved his son, he was well aware of Sasrogarn's shortcomings.
    When Vanessa was caught, he had been worried about her and when she returned to him, he couldn't help
    but feel that the Humans had corrupted her somehow to make her suggest things that he considered
    impossible - like peace with the Humans. He even threatened her - even though he did not believe in his
    own threats. He never really saw the two races living together and turned out to be rather conservative
    despite his attempts to change his people. Only when his original plan fell apart, he started to realize that
    he had been wrong in so many ways and did not have the gut to apologize Vanessa. He died by the hands
    of the man he stole Vanessa from before he could fully change.
    We are all aware of Rangul's mistakes, but keep this in mind: He must have made some things right at least
    when it came to treating his children right as both Amari, whom he had exiled, Vanessa, whom he had threatened,
    and Sasrogarn mourned his death.
    The irony here is that Rangul could have become a better father if he had lived longer. At the same time,
    the man who killed him, Redfist, too would have been a good father if Rangul had never raied his mansion.
    These two ruined each other's life, preventing each other from becoming the person they should have been.

    2/5

    ==================================================

    Queen Renova - Queen of the Elves
    Renova did not really have much of a chance to be a mother. On one hand she brought her baby children
    to safety and gave them to an undead, the very man who had killed her mother (she hated her though)
    to protect them. On the other hand, she was not fully herself and she gave her children to an UNDEAD.
    Still, the Ironfist would most likely have killed the babies to avoid further civil war among the Elves so
    she chose the option that was more likely to bring her children into safety.

    1/5

    ==================================================

    Queen Keera - Fallen Queen of the Elves
    When Renova was still a child who did as she was told, even if begrudgingly at times, Keera was proud
    of her daughter and raised her in the same luxury and wealth she had been raised in. At the same time,
    she actually spent only very little time with her daughter. When Renova became an adult and did not want
    to continue being the girl that was kept inside the palace, Keera imprisoned her for not respecting her wishes
    as soon as she had found out about her daughter leaving the palace whenever she managed to sneak out of it.
    At the same time, she also was afraid that something could happen to her daughter - the two never talked again
    after Renova was imprisoned inside her chamber. Renova felt that Keera had never cared for her and started to
    hate her. Keera did not realize her mistakes until her death - far too late of course.
    She was a poor ruler, a bad role model for her daughter and her people and, finally, a bad mother.

    0/5

    ==================================================

    Queen Kasraazs - Queen of the Black Dragons
    These lips are sealed.

    0/0


    Conclusion:
    0/5 Queen Keera - Fallen Queen of the Elves
    0/5 Merlon Seabright - The single Admiral
    1/5 Queen Renova - Queen of the Elves
    1/5 Duke Volarian Redfist - The Loving Father
    2/5 Rangul - Warchief of the Deathbreeze
    2/5 Zarin Hammerfall - The High King of the Dwarves
    3/5 Renald van Durce - The High Lord Inquisitor
    5/5 Gardon Bloodclaw - The Ca'laer
    5/5 King Dorten - The old King
    0/0 Queen Kasraazs - Queen of the Black Dragons
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    What!? :D?