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New Content Discussion [SPOILER]

Level 22
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Apr 9, 2017
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1,681
Maybe Brian and Largoth are working together to curtail the power of Aridon... After all I would assume in raw power he surpasses them, but they wont need to fight him head on if they can get their minions to do it for them. That might explain the love Brian has for orcs (they are literally immune to Aridons machinations)
I'm pretty sure one of Brian's reasons for tutoring Gardon and Amari was to find someone who would oppose Tregakh. (even if they know nothing about him)
If Brian and Tregakh do turn out to be allies somehow, then they should get an award for putting up such a convincing charade and keeping it for so long.
 
Level 19
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Jun 26, 2019
Messages
361
It would be unsightly if Galareth mutilates our beloved general. So, undead Blen scenario is don't-want-to-happen sort. I don't think Inara will kill Blen, she was quite foggy after being released from Kome, and perhaps she shall remember everything. Rath might fail at Kerrel's castle and instead slain by Blen (if this scenario becomes canon).
You are right. Inara was foggy when she was released. Then Rath shouted Greymoore and she thought about him.
But it could be Gardon.
Gardon Bloodclaw
Blen Greymoore
Both start with a G, so maybe she thinks about Gardon and not Greymoore but Rath just acussed him anyway.

Cmon guys...Why else would Shar introduce a new orc character specifically make her mention Blen and tie her to another new Character who also hates him.
Because Rath is going to die and the Darkmind need a new leader, also making her the chieftain of the darkmind clan would increase the value of the "Orc women being warriors and leaders too" that Amari profess.

I'm pretty sure one of Brian's reasons for tutoring Gardon and Amari was to find someone who would oppose Tregakh. (even if they know nothing about him)
It should be, both Amari and Gardon are making empires to fight the demons and the empire, despite both having their own interests.
 
Level 29
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Mar 28, 2015
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2,678
I'm pretty sure one of Brian's reasons for tutoring Gardon and Amari was to find someone who would oppose Tregakh. (even if they know nothing about him)
If Brian and Tregakh do turn out to be allies somehow, then they should get an award for putting up such a convincing charade and keeping it for so long.
Agreed.
From what we have seen in the SHB and SOB, Brian may hate Aridon, but he nonetheless sees him as some sort of necessary evil and is willing to form pacts with him. In the meantime, he sees Tregakh as the actual threat.
Though his opinion would change if he was to find out that Aridon manipulated Tregakh. That is, of course, if Tregakh was telling the truth.
Because Rath is going to die and the Darkmind need a new leader, also making her the chieftain of the darkmind clan would increase the value of the "Orc women being warriors and leaders too" that Amari profess.
Maybe, or maybe she will serve as a parallel to Rath. While Rath gets more and more obsessed with revenge, she realizes that he is dragging their entire clan to a never-ending cycle of revenge and that they will most likely get killed because of it.
 
Level 20
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Dec 19, 2013
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1,084
You are right. Inara was foggy when she was released. Then Rath shouted Greymoore and she thought about him.
But it could be Gardon.
Gardon Bloodclaw
Blen Greymoore
Both start with a G, so maybe she thinks about Gardon and not Greymoore but Rath just acussed him anyway.
Expect Gardon had nothing to do with the darkmind massacre, it was Blen, the bull, the wolf and lering and his royalists. Inara being imprisoned at Kome castle means nothing. Kome is a stronghold of a military order that is closely associated with the empire (At that time) it would be a no brainer to think that a majority of their warriors (empire) would be stationed in a castle after all. Also Shar has expressed time and time again that one of the reasons why Blen died was the apparent lack of interest (From the masses back then) on the character and he was surprised by the "outrage" of Blen dying such a not heroic death. If you ask me the introduction of Zoia Inara and the proper development of Selior were done as a way to funnel a new arc regarding Blen (Kinda like The destroyer and Okri).
Because Rath is going to die and the Darkmind need a new leader, also making her the chieftain of the darkmind clan would increase the value of the "Orc women being warriors and leaders too" that Amari profess.
The old orc hierarchy of Chieftains for each clan was abolished the moment Amari became the queen of the Tribal Dominion. There are far to few orcs for them to descend into tribalism again despite its name the Tribal Dominion is more of a Federation of different races, each race retains a certain territory within the new kingdom's land and a leader (i.e Borctka for ogres and giants, Amari for orcs, King Gran for Gnolls) the remaining orc leaders will either assume different posts within the new Dominion or will be relegated to field commanders/generals.

Inara as a "leader" of the dark mind makes no sense SINCE there are hardly any dark mind alive to begin with. First they got butchered during the imperial offensive, then Rath went and threw the remaining of them at Blen not to mention the "re-branded" darkmind clan was nothing more than a bunch of minor clans forced into servitude, the Dark mind identity is dead with Rath. Inara can't be leader of a dead clan.

Agreed.
From what we have seen in the SHB and SOB, Brian may hate Aridon, but he nonetheless sees him as some sort of necessary evil and is willing to form pacts with him. In the meantime, he sees Tregakh as the actual threat.
Though his opinion would change if he was to find out that Aridon manipulated Tregakh. That is, of course, if Tregakh was telling the truth.
I mean who betrayed who the first time the four decided to have dealings with each other.

Take a look at Aridon and his moves during the second books of both humans and orcs. Everything points towards one direction. He is gearing for proper war. He has realised that sitting on his mountain pulling strings ain't gonna cut it anymore. He send forth his servants to participate in a multitude of conflicts (The iron fist/golden guard showdown, the battle of the gates of hell, the punitive expedition into Tribal Dominion lands, the Gardon/Saphira "alliance" to usurp the throne of the elves).
Conflicts bring corpses, we all know who benefits from all those dead bodies, he went up and dug up his dark elven servants AND is currently into an ongoing war with the elves for the remaining part of the elven forests (which need I remind you...Holds some very special magic somewhere in there) on top of all of this the Dwarfs with whom the undead have had to share the tunnels are all but totally isolated.

Aridon considers Arakin as his sandbox backyard if you all think He is going to allow either Gardon or Amari (both servants of a brother whom he locked away) to stay in power then I think you are considering Aridon to be much more peaceful than he actually is.

If Brain somehow fails to realise this^ than he really is dumb. He might not love Largoth but he doesn't love Aridon either. This is at best going to be a three or four way battle.
 
Level 22
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Apr 9, 2017
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1,681
Putting it in a spoiler tag since it's a bit long. Also quoting is bugged for me for some reason, so I'll just write the number of the question I'm replying to.
Question 8

While it's a completely different situation due to the distance, I wonder why Gardon didn't apply the same logic for the Empire of Rodan. They could easily surround the Bloodclaw Fortress due to its location and the size of the forces they'll send. Maybe even bombard it into oblivion.

Question 30

Now I'm curious if he manipulated Genethas into betraying the empire.

Question 38

I'm gonna guess they fought many invasions launched from there, but exploring it and fighting the demons among other enemies resulted in it never going anywhere.

Question 63

I had a theory where due the mixture of the essences of the dead gods, plus the other gods' power he may have absorbed, Aridon's foresight and views were warped and made him paranoid about something that otherwise wouldn't have crossed his mind. Due to all of that he manipulated his siblings into doing what they did.

Question 64
The demon(s) that have lived for so long must be pretty classy.

Question 66

I can see Brian or Aridon eventually extracting something of value located there.

Question 88

I hope Zindrach or any other dead god doesn't come back, even if in a weakened form. That would ruin the story imho.

Question 89

This brings up an interesting question. If permanently slain and despite being much weaker than before, would the essences of Aridon, Bhaarizel and Tregakh create powerful beings? Considering what Zindrach's death brought, probably not, though he could've been the exception.

Question 108

I'm gonna guess the plague was caused either by someone under Tregakh's command.

Question 114

I'm gonna guess that they reached some kind of middle ground where they weakened her, but didn't quite kill her.

Question 115

I feel like the demons may be tempted into invading Zyainor and the Dominion if their forces are overly occupied with the Empire of Rodan's armies. I also wouldn't be surprised if Aridon would help them in some way just to screw them later.

Question 118

Only the orcs being guided by a sibling of his can make Aridon consider such a massive exception.

Question 210

I'm gonna guess the short story you're referring to adding as a playable mission is ''Old Hatred''

Question 253

Poor Zindrach, first he got thunderstruck, then exploded like T.N.T.

Question 271

That's surprising to hear. Based on what we have heard in the short stories, I don't think she know of them having children.
Either that or she knows people finding out would cause a lot of internal instability and keeps it to herself.

Question 323

It's obviously the Fleshtearer. :p

Question 373

I'm curious if van Durce's death made them want revenge and get them to be more active.

Question 378

I wonder if Brian has told Gardon about the entrance to the demonic lands through the land border in the Cold North. Not a very practical approach and it would take a lot of work, but it's the best way to create a spy network currently.

Question 448

I can see this creating a lot of complications for the Dominion once Tregakh sends his forces to invade Salria. Zyainor would probably hold them off better.
 
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Level 19
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Jun 26, 2019
Messages
361
There is so much information on this AQT.

First about redfist, if he either joined Aridon or was attacked by Aedale a bit later, the orc threat would have dealt with (Damn Redfist you had your chance).
That means that Aedale (and Largoth indirectly) saved the orcs and their allies (Largoth will be happy to piss Aridon)
However if Redfist was alive he would kill many humans (the ones that bought the goldaxe contracts) including Blen. That scenario would be interesting nonetheless as Gardon would protect Blen.

72) I suppose the question was despite Marin...
171) Orie isn´t a demon slave, at least yet. She just joined Ebira for the sake of revenge (pretty much like Aedale joined Lisara)
221) That´s good, Larine didn´t have time to shine on her own during the SHB
236) That will be an epic match.
349) ... I never thought that, that´s horrible. However you can't have a heart attack either (the main reason why the undead are top tier) so that´s a plus.
367) Yet we know nothing about him or her. Its gotta be the Fleshtearer, he is the best at words.
385) The ejara nexus is even more interesting now, i suppose they also have some minor dwarven clans enslaved (either at the beginning or end of the second books)
448) That´s big, so once the new imperials arrive in Arkain the dwarfs will join them, either the new grandmarshall or Van Durce´s daughter (along with Marin and the remnants of the golden guard). The dominion will have a hard time dealing with all those forces.
509) So dragons and lizards are similar then, lets ask the dragon regiment.
526) We can ask GiantGrantGames if he wanna try it.
 
Level 27
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Nov 25, 2021
Messages
480
Lots of interesting stuffs in AQT that helped me understand the lore more, and hopefully my scatterbrain won't forget them anytime soon. As for now, I'll reply to a few funny ones or the ones that stood out the most to me.

55/56: Sounds like a certain type of gas that a certain faction of Protoss loves to consume...
110/112/117: At least we know that it's a he.
189: This one (especially the ":-]" face) intrigues me, since I've always thought that if he's a discarded character, his death scene would not be shown in True Story. Still, if he's still alive/raised as Undead, it's hard to determine what his role going to be.
194: Differed, but not bettered. Looks like the poor guy won't have to suffer his cruel life for much longer. Still want to know what happened between him and his wife though.
200: And I was torturing myself by making the mission much harder by avoiding them, thinking that there were a "points" system like the one for Orc books, that would make Salana more corrupted the more side quests I complete. Guess the lesson here is to always go all-out against filthy traitors.
208: More races to play as, means more techtrees, means more hour of fun. Or suffering, if said mission includes something like. defending a spot for 30 minutes.
214/247: A shame. Since that means she will be the first characters to have ties to three major races (born by Humans, taught by Orcs, raised by Undeads). That, and I love seeing characters being raised as Undead/infested into Zerg. It's fun.
230/380: More Redfist missions please. Or better yet, implement their anger into gameplay, too. Magic immunity, damage boost when low health, more aggressive siege damage units to raze through enemy bases even faster, etc...
287: A mix of 'thane' and 'hero' if I have to guess. Then again, it doesn't make much sense and only sounds great in my head.
291: It's great seeing the chemistry between them. Krom being used to killing, and Mordin is still somewhat human (or Dwarven?) and is an Apologetic Attacker. Definitely want more of that.
326: It's weird since whenhe fought alongside her in the mission Betrayal, she could already use Demon Incantaion, which should have exposed her right away. But I guess a bunch of angry furries are more of a threat to Blen I guess.
(I miss having Mass Teleport to continuously assault Genethas from inside his base . Demon Incantation just can't compare.)
526: Depends on each one's definition of Deathless. Does units that don't cost supply count (so we can mass workers like a maniac)? Does dummy units count? Also, If Grant follows the same rule as he did his StarCraft II runs, which means preventing allied hero from dying, missions like Gates of Hell should be quite impossible.
527: What can I say except 'Bring out the Meat Wagons!'?
But seriously, it's quite interesting to see who will be put out of the picture, because aside from the ones whose fate are already sealed from the Books, I haven't had the pleasure of spotting red flags raised by other characters.
 
Level 19
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Messages
361
Depends on each one's definition of Deathless. Does units that don't cost supply count (so we can mass workers like a maniac)? Does dummy units count? Also, If Grant follows the same rule as he did his StarCraft II runs, which means preventing allied hero from dying, missions like Gates of Hell should be quite impossible.
That rule could be adapted as "preventing any possible allies death" so they dying at first could be allowed but after a nice tower spam it could be prevented. You can´t save all the heroes (most attack waves from our allies use heroes) so maybe changing it to "Our allies town hall can´t be destroyed" would work too.
 
Level 20
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Apr 17, 2021
Messages
188
Due to a cache problem, I have to play the True Story again to get my items back so I thought to list things that seemed weird to me as I went.
I don't know if some of these issues were reported (or if they're issues at all) so sorry if they were.

Act 1

Chapter 1: Pillage :
  • In the introduction : "he himself leads one of the assaults himself"

Chapter 4: Nightmare :
  • Not an issue but have you ever thought of making releasing wrath a choice ? I just want poor Selior to spend his remaining days with a friend rather than an enemy/rival.

Chapter 6: Dead men's march :
  • In the introduction : "Meanwhile, a second force is traveling through the tunnel system to the block the imperials..."
  • In the opening cinematic, Saphira says that "They have not talked since the master granted her eternal life" to Rahandir. Isn't she supposed to have been raised by Rahandir himself ?
  • The ejara crypt fiends cannot research web. It makes the red dragon considerably harder than the other nexus.
  • Speaking of the dragon, it is easily the most powerful creep of the map. Is it normal it only drops 2 gold coins ?
  • The Zirr nexus has access to the skeletal mastery research despite it not affecting lorekeepers.
  • The obsidian statues have the "destroyer transformation" ability grayed out despite the research not being available in this chapter.
Chapter 7: The Bull and the Wolf :
  • The catapults you start with are not the same you can create. They have the same stats, abilities, upgrades, but you can tab between them if you select them together.
  • I have not checked all other missions yet but, by memory, I think this is the only level in the true story where the orcs have kodo beasts. Is this why Rath hates Greymoore so much ? Has Blen genocided the Kodos !?
 
Level 9
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Oct 1, 2015
Messages
352
I haven't checked the thread in a long time.
I'm replaying the campaign after the multiple updates. Other than the issues Navy45 mentioned I encountered a bug in Dark Secrets chapter during the boss fight.
One of the quests requirements is the heroes must survive yet I had one of them killed and it didn't end in failure and tried it again just to double check this time I got all of my forces killed and no mission failed screen.
I also wanted to ask something, in chapter Rescue, does killing the spider queen no longer affect the Ironthunder clan in Rise of the Clans?
 
Level 20
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Apr 17, 2021
Messages
188
I finished replaying through Act II of the True story. Here's my review.

Act II

Chapter 2: Allies :
  • Some mana runes on the demons before reaching the outpost would be nice. Priests run out of mana at this point so it would avoid going back to the health fountain.
  • During the cinematic, Aaron doesn't turn to the soldiers who warns him of the demon attack.
  • Revenge (the quest after the attack) does not display an objective in the quest journal
Chapter 3: Slaves of the demons :
  • Eodarus' part in the character knowledge is cut in the beginning : the entry starts by "matter the crime. Even the offered knighthood..."
  • The tomb of relics (and other shops in following levels) are no longer accessible whereas they were in Dead Men's march and The Wolf and the Bull. Personnally I think having access to shops (without access to an orb) can make early levels more interesting.
Chapter 4: Rise of the Clans :
  • In goldaxe playthrough, the timer to be bought by Rangul is a little too long compared to the rate at which you can amass gold. It feels disapointing to end the level before even being included in the Clan war.
  • The deathbreeze playthrough doesn't give any novelty in regards to units. It is a little sad, especially since it is the hardest.
Chapter 5: Defense of Home :
  • The introduction mentions an attack to the North. Is it the attack on the Derryn outpost. If not, will we be able to play or see it ?
  • The access to the troll main camp of the side quest should probably be blocked by trees or rocks before we reach the city.
  • Even after getting the quest, the huts in this troll camp are still invulnerable.
  • None of the ironfist elite have defend. It feels weird. Like they are less trained than regular elites. It also makes it difficult to use defend on swordsmen since you have to tab through 3 elites.
  • The elven priest's upgrade reads "chaplain master training" (not really important but I thought I'd mention it)
  • The elven deserter's base has a workshop which I don't think is an elven building.
  • No character knowledge on Lera ?
Interlude : The council of generals :
  • "all eligable necromancers" --> "all eligible necromancers"
Chapter 6: Dark Secrets :
  • In the introduction, above the chapter's name, it is written "chapter six" instead of "Act two, chapter six"
  • In the opening cinematic, Aedale doesn't turn to Cheveran when asking him to call her by her name.
  • In the ruins, the gate leading to the main entrance and a room filled with 10+ doomguards should be either invulnerable or advertized as a death trap.
  • No sound effect when breaking the artifact ?
  • In Rahandir's bossfight, blizzards and meteors seem to fall at random places. It makes the fight very luck-reliant since taking one meteor is very damaging and taking two is an almost certain reset.
Chapter 7: A Fresh Breeze :
  • My bad, the skullblade has access to kodos on this mission. But why did the Darkmind have them previously ? Also why aren't they available in Pride of the Empire when choosing the Skullblade ?
  • Since this level gives access to new units and heroes have interesting interactions by encountering each other, it feels sad to only have to destroy the enemy fleets. It would be nice to have incentive to destroy at least one ennemy base (eather with a main or side mission)
  • After I won as the undead, sir Cheveran the black appeared in green color in the end cinematic.
End: Crossroads :
  • The ironfist overseer doesn't turn to Genethas and Lerrig when talking to them.
  • Vanessa tells Gardon that the deathbreeze will save her then when he calls them raiders, she acts surprised he knows of her clan. Maybe she shouldn't mention the name and he would deduce it from the warriors that escorted her.
Sorry for the long post. Hope this is useful 😁
 
Level 21
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Dec 20, 2015
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330
Are Raszar and the Forgotten creations of the Dark One? It is implied this is the case, yet there is other material that claims the Dark One never created their own race. Aridon clearly didn't make them and Raszar says the Demons destroyed them previously, so that rules out Demon God. This just leaves Brian, who has his other shadows, and Dark guy, who was advertised to not create anything. Unless Demon guy or Brian made other races and one was the Forgotten, then otherwise Dark guy DID make a race. Is this just my own misunderstanding of the timeline?
 

Shar Dundred

Community Moderator
Level 72
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May 6, 2009
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5,870
From the "Birth of a World" short story
The Dark One started taking members of the different races from his brethren. His plans are still unknown, but it was quite clear that it had something to do with getting rid of his three counterparts. However, it didn't take the others as long to figure that out as he had hoped. They allied up against him and ordered their armies to attack him. The Dark One had summoned both creatures of his own, monsters created out of magic, and members of different races, perverted to his dark will, but even with all his servants and tricks he stood no chance against the others.
 
Level 20
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Apr 17, 2021
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188
Finished replaying the third Act. Here goes nothing.

Act III

Chapter 1: Terror of Old :
  • The player's units color is weird. It is neither the grey of the Grey Guard, the orange of the Order of the Flame or the brown of the Ironfist. If you summon Zed, the player's color is found to be grey but all units and heroes are light pink (I don't know how the color is called in the editor)
  • The necromancers you start with seemed to arrive with Blen. There is no reason for the Grey Guard not ot use necromancers but then why aren't they available in Betrayal ?
  • Why does no soldier of the Ironfist accompany Gardon ?
  • Adding another chaplain or more health runes on the path to the corrupted fountain would reduce the amount of back-and-forth to the health fountain.
  • Both the health and the corrupted fountains are not invulnerable.
Chapter 2: Siege of Kome :
  • The enslaved murloc Mammoth make no sound. Not even a growl.
  • Are murloc mammoths murlocs or other beasts the murlocs use ? Do murlocs transform into them or do they look the same in lore ?
  • The amount of units at the beginning is very overwhelming and pretty overkill for the bases you have to destroy. Maybe the first wave could be smaller in exchange for more reinforcements.
  • The choice between the Goldaxe and the Skullblade does not really matter in my opinion. It does not really change the gameplay since, either way, it revolves around smashing the 200+ food army on the outer bases and by the time you actually have to think about playstyle and unit composition, most non-Deathbreeze units are dead. It would be nice to have some permanent effect of the choice on the mission.
  • Rath attacks the defensive Hammerfall dwarves and the knights' food reserves before going for the Knights' main bases. It prevents you from ignoring the dwarves or timing the farm's destruction with the attack on Theoden.
  • About the knights' farms. I think, since they rebuild them, it only grants a temporary advantage. It feels weird for the knights' to be able to replenish their food while fully sieged.
  • Not really about the mission but Warlords being a Darkmind unit is weird since that makes Grofzag the only warlord of the Deathbreeze. Maybe give the warlords to the Deathbreeze with an aura and find a new unit for the Darkmind ?
  • The forge's items recharge and can be purchased endlessly.
Chapter 3: Purge of the Pearl :
  • The frost ghosts' blizzard hotkey is B instead of E (also they seem to have a more powerful blizzard than the spirit legionnaires. Is that intended ?)
  • It would be nice to raise the Demon Lord into a Death Lord. It would provide some much needed healing. (It is also strange that Eodarus raised a Death Lord but Aridon himself doesn't)
  • Is it normal that the skeleton terror is ranged ? Also since the AI ignores summoned units, it could use taunt.
Chapter 5: Death's Approach :
  • In the opening cinematic, the searaiders are labelled as grunts. Also wouldn't wolfriders be more appropriate for scouting ?
  • The attack and armor upgrades state they don't affect ogres and bearmen before the dominion is a thing. Also the wolfriders description says they can be upgraded with Wolf Breeding which is exclusive to the Darkmind.
  • Vanessa starts at level 7 but doesn't have her ultimate unlocked and instead has 3 points into her aura ? That's... not optimal.
  • In this level specifically, the AI has attacked a single building in my base, then went back to its base ignoring any of my units while retreating.
Chapter 6: Secrets in the Dark :
  • Is it normal that fake Greymoore doesn't have his items ? I always thought that having them made the perdormance more convincing. Also, since there is no way to recover any of these heroes items, him having his items cannot really be exploited anymore to duplicate them.
  • I did not notice it earlier but Sir Cheveran doesn't have devour magic in Dark Secrets and A Fresh Breeze.
  • The Zarres' passive is called e"nvenomed spears" instead of "envenomed bolts".
  • There are two identical rolling gates in this level but one can be destroyed, the other cannot. The destroyable one should probably be changed to a regular ruined gate.
  • Salomar doesn't turn to Cheveran when ordering him to stand down after he tries to take Aedale into custody.
  • When appearing in the cinematic, Lisarra's model is completely still. After mind controlling Cheveran, Aedale's model also goes still
  • Does Aedale's transformation keep the benefits of tomes ? In my playthrough, she lost intelligence between the end of this level and Betrayal.
Chapter 7: Bloody Uprising :
  • The gold amounts gained seem overtuned (I only destroyed one goldaxe stronghold and yet I had 10 000+ gold in the bank)
  • When playing a new faction for the first time, it would be useful to have to research manually their unique upgrades so that you know what they do (I still have no idea what the "Golddigger" upgrade for the Goldaxe does)
  • The spirits of the chieftains just giving ressources is kind of bland (and unnecessary). It would be cool if it permanently buffed the Destroyer for instance.
  • I don't know how doable that is but I feel like the level would be much more interesting if the subjugated clans kept building units and sent them in a trickle to the Blackrazor to create some sort of Tug of War.
End: Blood and Death :
  • The destroyer starts speaking way before he is on the screen (and in speaking distance of Rangul).
  • Is the Order of the Bleeding a paladin order ? Will we ever know how Aaron survived the attack and learned the identity of the traitor ? So many questions...
I keep making these longer and longer... Really sorry for that. Hope this is helpful at least.
 
Level 21
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Dec 20, 2015
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330
New Jaybo Aridon balance theory dropping now: Aridon never explicitly talks about what balance means or why it's important to him, either because it is a purposeful secret or all his minions already intrinsically know it so there is no reason for it to be said on screen. In either case, my guess now is that balance means no one winning the wider demon conflict because a winner means no tension on the continent. No tension means less ongoing warfare, less ongoing warfare means less death. And he's the Death Guy after all.

Alternatively, Brian seems to actively work towards letting the existing species all chill out and be harmonious to an extent maybe because a wider diaspora of 'shadows' being cast by them, rather than stagnant shadows of the undead/death. Alternatively, Brian meddles the way he does because he is part human now.

Anywho, I believe Aridon's interpretation of balance and its importance is a central plot point to the series; Shar has explicitly left it vague as something to come out probably close to the very end of the series, so what do you all think?

EDIT: And then another thing I think is interesting to ponder on is the last scene from the Second Undead Book. In theory, this is the only scene from any of the books that actually exists in the True Story canon/universe, so I wonder when chronologically that will end up happening.
 
Last edited:
Level 22
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Apr 9, 2017
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1,681
If I'm not mistaken, he talked about it at the beginning of the Second Undead Book and made it pretty clear.
If one faction grows too much in power, it will bring other weaker factions to their downfall, so the stronger faction must be dealt with.

I haven't watched it in awhile, so correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Level 21
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
330
If I'm not mistaken, he talked about it at the beginning of the Second Undead Book and made it pretty clear.
If one faction grows too much in power, it will bring other weaker factions to their downfall, so the stronger faction must be dealt with.

I haven't watched it in awhile, so correct me if I'm wrong.
You're definitely right, but why does he take it as his responsibility to maintain that? Why is a stronger faction winning considered a bad thing to him or matter at all? Another guess I have is a lot less grand and much simpler: self-preservation. Aridon knows the Undead are flourishing under the status-quo and he knows he can manipulate Humans (and maybe Demons), so why change what is currently working well for him and his created race of Undead. If it changes, he can't foresee what might happen to him if some other factions come to strength.
 
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You're definitely right, but why does he take it as his responsibility to maintain that? Why is a stronger faction winning considered a bad thing to him or matter at all? Another guess I have is a lot less grand and much simpler: self-preservation. Aridon knows the Undead are flourishing under the status-quo and he knows he can manipulate Humans (and maybe Demons), so why change what is currently working well for him and his created race of Undead. If it changes, he can't foresee what might happen to him if some other factions comes to strength.
He probably thinks nobody else could maintain it, so part of it is pride. As for why he does it in the first place, I think his foresight showing him the world will end or end up in a pretty had state (very ironic of him) if he doesn't pushes him to do it and he's been doing it for so long that hesitation and doubt have been completely erased from even slight consideration. (Until recently)

A stronger faction winning would ruin his self-preservation. I'm pretty confident he has seen that and acts to prevent it.
If the demons conquered the human kingdoms, Aridon would have found himself completely surrounded and eventually crushed. The same could be said about a Zyainor that managed to fully destroy the demons in a timeline where Aridon allowed Gardon's war against them to continue indefinitely while he still had the Purificator.

Self-preservation is only a part of it. Pride, his visions that the world will end, and as the newest AQT mentioned, him thinking he is the only reason the world exists are a few others.
 
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He probably thinks nobody else could maintain it, so part of it is pride. As for why he does it in the first place, I think his foresight showing him the world will end or end up in a pretty had state (very ironic of him) if he doesn't pushes him to do it and he's been doing it for so long that hesitation and doubt have been completely erased from even slight consideration. (Until recently)

A stronger faction winning would ruin his self-preservation. I'm pretty confident he has seen that and acts to prevent it.
If the demons conquered the human kingdoms, Aridon would have found himself completely surrounded and eventually crushed. The same could be said about a Zyainor that managed to fully destroy the demons in a timeline where Aridon allowed Gardon's war against them to continue indefinitely while he still had the Purificator.

Self-preservation is only a part of it. Pride, his visions that the world will end, and as the newest AQT mentioned, him thinking he is the only reason the world exists are a few others.
Not to mention that he killed two of his brethren and himself to make sure no overlord gets to rule the entire world (at least, he seems to think so).
At this point, he is already invested so he might as well keep going.
 
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Act five Interlude:
-Nice detail that the ships have a variety of colours.
-Hortnog talking facts about Vanessa and how long term relationships with other races can be beneficial.
-So Gorthog agrees with Vanessa for once... that´s good.
-Sasrogarn said nothing about the armours this time.
-Vanessa calling Rangul chieftain instead of Rangul... they are done as a father and daughter.
-I think the colour for Amari and Okri was emerald and not green, is it because of Gorthog?
-Well Destroyer is 100% death, Okri is still alive after the second books so he´ll die, probably in a duel.

Chapter one, act five:
-Amari doesn´t have shadowbound anymore but the human general droped a tome about something of shadows... which i couldn´t pick, i suppose is bugged right now.
-Amari thinks about using the bloodlust of the dark trolls during the war, i think this is a bad idea.
-I knew she wanted to study the amulet, since is imbued with Gardon´s magic she´ll know how to deal with it... or replicate for further use. She might use it in Grella in the future? I hope not because that would ruin the dominion´s idea of being allies to become Amari´s minions.
-It was hard to see the shadows during the final cinematic even with the zoom in but is a nice detail.

Great introduction to the second books Shar!
 

Shar Dundred

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-I think the colour for Amari and Okri was emerald and not green, is it because of Gorthog?
Dark Green. They are supposed to use Dark Green (which is closer to Amari's original "emerald" as
well as a callback to when Deathbreeze was Dark Green) now.
I know I forgot to change their color in Chapter One.
-Amari doesn´t have shadowbound anymore but the human general droped a tome about something of shadows... which i couldn´t pick, i suppose is bugged right now.
I will have to look into that.
 
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Thoughts on the new chapters.

Interlude:

  • I completely forgot how Bhaarizel was only able to redirect a part of the orc fleet. Had he somehow redirected all of it, I wonder how well they could've fared against the demons in their first invasion.
  • Hortnog's proposal and Rangul rejecting it was a nice touch. It further enhanced the idea how most orcs were poor at thinking in the long term.
  • Judging by what Rangul said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some orcs while playing as the Ironfist during Gardon's intervention in the Retka rebellion.
  • That ring, I wonder if the possibly classy chieftain of the Goldaxe Clan crafted it and gave it to Hortnog. Teleportation technology is after all a speciality of his race.
  • The Destroyer's fate is pretty much sealed. Okri and Amari wanting him for the war will delay his death by quite a bit, but pretty unlikely to prevent it.

Chapter 1:

  • Amari thinking like Gardon (by wanting to use the dark trolls' anger as a weapon) was interesting.
  • Now that she's accentuated it more, I'm curious how being half-human affects Okri's immunity to manipulation. Does she still retain complete immunity like the rest of the orcs, or is she only "half-resistant" for lack of a better word.
 
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Unlucky that you fixed it right after I finished the level. :(

Oh well. Time to replay, because a perfectionist like me is totally going to lose it if I miss out on that juicy 50 HP bonus.
 
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That ring, I wonder if the possibly classy chieftain of the Goldaxe Clan crafted it and gave it to Hortnog. Teleportation technology is after all a speciality of his race.
I knew i forget about something, i think this ring will be what saves Vanessa from Redfist. Tping her to hortnog on that situation when (casually) hortnog is with the chieftain clan.
Also is a nice touch, your adoptive uncle saving you from your cruel father that tried to kill you.

I highly recommend playing the chapter again now btw, unless of course you want to miss out on the bonus hit points. ;)
That made me think, Once Sasrogarn unavoidable fate is fullfilled and he dies, will you increase Amari´s hit points? It would be more useful than his brother no doubt.
 
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I knew i forget about something, i think this ring will be what saves Vanessa from Redfist. Tping her to hortnog on that situation when (casually) hortnog is with the chieftain clan.
Also is a nice touch, your adoptive uncle saving you from your cruel father that tried to kill you.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like Hortnog's raising some red flags over here.

That made me think, Once Sasrogarn unavoidable fate is fullfilled and he dies, will you increase Amari´s hit points? It would be more useful than his brother no doubt.
Makes Amari loses 100 HP instead, because not even other Shadowbound heroes want to be with him.
 
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I have waited for Act 5 for so long.

Interlude:
-So Bhaarizel can conjure a storm, something that has nothing to do with his element, without having a corporeal form. That puts into question just how strong any of the Four were in their peak.
-In the cinematic, one of the orc frigates stops and stays behind while the rest keep going
-Honestly Bhaarizel deserves to be the supreme god of the orcs after all he has done for them.
-Oh dear Lord, even after all that has transpired, Rangul still wants to continue the invasion?! People with only short-term memory learn faster than him!
-Yeah, funny thing about that whole "going back home", Ephrog. I want to see their faces once they realize that they invasion has led them to the brink of extinction.
-And Rangul still puts into question Vanessa's loyalty? It is funny that he and Rath belittled her for her supposed lack of loyalty, and yet Rath turns out to be the least loyal. Guess orcs aren't as loyal as they should be, right oh so wise Rangul?
-Hortnog is the best surrogate orc uncle there is!

Act Five, Chapter One:
-How exactly can Dark Trolls terrorize Black Dragons? Did they hunt them?
-Question. So they placed an amulet only on Korjaha? Because apparently they only found the amulet on him. So how were the other "insurgents" controlled? Can some amulets have a mass brainwashing effect?
-Birram calls the Dark Trolls' democracy a joke. In the meantime, the humans' monarchies are filled with dissent, traitors and conspiracies. Their emperor has been replaced by Tregakh without anyone noticing it, one of their best generals felt discontent with their ruler and joined the demons, half of the army fought on behalf of said traitor, one of their top generals is a genocidal-obsessed madman, should I go on?
-I love that you kept Amari's sassy rebukes against the Ironfist.
-Does Amari know about the amulets or is she unaware of who was behind their creation?
 

Kasrkin

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Everyone hunts black dragons, they're the only dragons that can do any real damage since they're sapient. Democracy thing is joke comrade.

And Genny did not have half the army follow him, the only reason Pride of the Empire wasn't bigger with even more factions and a higher food cap is because warcraft 3 cannot handle anymore units after a certain point without significant delays in issuing commands. Trust me we've tried.
 
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Everyone hunts black dragons, they're the only dragons that can do any real damage since they're sapient.
Ok then.
Democracy thing is joke comrade.
Democracy is a joke only if the people that vote are jokes themselves. XD
And Genny did not have half the army follow him, the only reason Pride of the Empire wasn't bigger with even more factions and a higher food cap is because warcraft 3 cannot handle anymore units after a certain point without significant delays in issuing commands. Trust me we've tried.
Even if he didn't have half of the army backing him up, the fact that he had more followers than just his own men shows just how easy it is for the Imperial army to start killing each other. Lerrig fled from a battle that could have saved the kingdoms from an orc and demonic invasion because he trusted on Genethas.
 
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The Destroyer's fate is pretty much sealed. Okri and Amari wanting him for the war will delay his death by quite a bit, but pretty unlikely to prevent it.
Well Destroyer is 100% death, Okri is still alive after the second books so he´ll die, probably in a duel.
Destroyer has like 3-4 times as much health as every other hero (for real, 4k HP in Pride of the Empire). Even without abilities, I think he easily wins a 1v1 in-game, so either he is getting the classic death-in-a-cinematic or something less obvious will happen with Okri and Destroyer. Imagine Okri demanding an honorable duel after all the dust settles and then he just kills her a la The Mountain and Oberyn Martell hahaha.

Better case scenario would be they fight but the winner spares the other following some character development setting it up: a nice little microcosm of the creation of the Dominion and new Orc mindset. But, it's Arkain so I also wouldn't be surprised nor unhappy if they kill each other!

And Genny did not have half the army follow him, the only reason Pride of the Empire wasn't bigger with even more factions and a higher food cap is because warcraft 3 cannot handle anymore units after a certain point without significant delays in issuing commands. Trust me we've tried.
Holy moly what other Imperial and Orc factions even exist to put on that map?
 
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Maybe some of the Orc minor clans can join too (or stronger Bloodhand Clan, same thing); each Human regiment can have a better, bigger base; Lerrig can stay for a while longer (but he's like human version of Sasrogarn, so...); Cheveron's (or Lisara's?) and Salomar's remaining Paladins can come to ruin the Orcs' day with their Holy Light spam.

Many things can be added still, but at the end of the day, no matter how good the map/campaign is, Warcraft III is still Warcraft III, and working with those limitations can be quite painful.
 
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Kasrkin

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Holy moly what other Imperial and Orc factions even exist to put on that map?
There are a lot more forces in the battle than actually shown, we cut out a lot of the more generic heroes/leaders with the randomly generated melee names from the true story so you end up facing actual named characters most of the time. So there could have been Imperial Army AI factions on Pride but you just ended facing all the specialized generals and their forces. I think it was climatic enough in the end.
 
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Ok, i made own predictions after ONE new interlude
  • Rangul and Ephrog will be killed by Redfist
  • Sas get humiliated through new acts because he is a coward. Why? Because Amari said that.
  • Rath will be killed either Blen or Inara
  • Hortnog is a demon in disguise. Maybe he that yellow dreadlord with monocle
  • Gorthog will join to Tribal Dominion.

P.S. What happened to Dogran?
 
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"Better case scenario would be they fight but the winner spares the other following some character development setting it up: a nice little microcosm of the creation of the Dominion and new Orc mindset."

I honestly think this is 100% going to happen because narratively the other outcomes don't make sense. If you think about it, the Destroyer is a character who has gotten a ton of characterization and development compared to Okri (even including the original second orc book in my opinion). I don't think it would make sense narratively to have a beloved character be killed by one who at this point in the story kind of a nobody.

Here's exactly how I think it will go:
The Destroyer barely manages to win in a straight-up duel but says that Okri isn't weak like her father and that The Destroyer has come to respect her as one of the greatest warriors alive. He then spares her, saying that she's welcome to try again in the future (it's in line with his desire to always fight the strongest enemies). Okri says she still despises him and promises to become stronger and kill him the next time.
 
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Yup, we'll see! Destroyer is certainly one of the more open ended characters, but I wouldn't say he has really changed at all yet, he's mostly been a bit of a wildcard. It's possible he will fill a role of old Orc mindset unwilling to change, though I think Sas already fills this role unless that also will be different in the True Story.

We hope for the best because being a wildcard is why we love him!
 
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Hortnog is such a simp...

Destroyer has more days before him, he aint dying anytime soon, AT LEAST not untill the Kingdom of Salria has been taken by the Dominion. A character who provides that much physical strength and martial ability is a useful tool for everyone. Let us not forget in terms of physical strength his clan is on top of the food chain you wouldn't want to disrupt the clan logistics and cohesion even Okri understands that.
 
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