Naga Projects

[VeljkoM]

Guess we will also have campaign only units.... duno why but I like campaign units.

 

[sacridshadow]

Like in normal warcraft 3 campaigns and multiplayer maps, the hero units differ. In campaign, you've got Thrall, Jaina,Arthas, and all these cool heroes. But in multiplayer, you've got the archmage, farseer, cryptlord, death knight, etc. They're the same unit, but have different appearances. We could do something similar.

As for the naga deathknight. I was planning on a small order of Death Knights and necromancers. We might be able to get both versions of the naga Death Knight (Misha's and mine) in as main or supporting characters. Naturally, if we don't get to play as the other, it'd be nice if they had different abilities. For uniqueness and all that. XD

 

[VeljkoM]

Yea campaign unit can also be naga necromancer. Perhaps we could make sub-race for campaign of necromantic naga?

 

[Misha]

Let's finish this race first XD

 

[sacridshadow]

I was working on naga necromancer for a while, but got caught on the problem of not knowing what to add. That'll be the next model I work on after I'm done with the naga deathknight.

 

[Misha]

for the naga, i think female should be the best necromancer, as they're more adept at magic. Necromancers were just mages that delved deeper into dark arts

 

[sacridshadow]

but not all naga mages were female. Remember that the continent we're working with has a different field of magic, which gives us a larger range of possibilities. If we could get some ideas for the overall plot, it'd be easier to work with.

Plotwise, I have:
Q: Why are they there? Why so few?

A: The naga fought their way out of a blood elf prison and escaped east, finding the hidden continent.

Q: What do they plan to do?

A: Unsure. They may not be able to leave as easily as they came, or maybe they found something they want to take with them. Maybe they want to stop someone or something evil.

Not much to go on right now. But I do have plot ideas written down. If you guys have any, post it. I need help with the intro and general goal. Even if the goal ends up changing, or they take the long route to reach their goal, please tell me.

 

[Lore-Wolf]

any movement recently? from any side?
or things that need thought or aid?

 

[Misha]

dunno.. I'm working on personifying my naga death knight

 

[Misha]

it's been... awfully silent lately.. Oo

 

[sacridshadow]

lol yeah. Looks like everyone got sidetracked. However, I have good news, I'll be here until May, so we'll have all the time in the world. Hopefully we can get things ready. At the least a plot and script down. Still need to work on that some.

 

[VeljkoM]

Sidetracked...one way of saying it...

 

[Misha]

well.. the group's activity is measured by posts x)

 

[sacridshadow]

not its frequency?

 

[Misha]

i think frequency is included.. >>

 

[Misha]

lol Chaos, remove the naga townhall and put it under finished stuff, and remove protonaga altogether

 

[VeljkoM]

Hm...well that leaves only one project unfinished...I'll guess it is about damned time to return to work. Wasn't really in mood for warcraft, hive or anything in past few months.

 

[Chaos.]

Edited.

 

[Misha]

btw people, http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/slave-wagon-v1-4-a-202320/ lumber gathering system for naga is finished c:

 

[VeljkoM]

Well hope that Ai isn't to dumb to use it. Will be in campaign version of race no mater what (if we have mission with enemy naga he'll just cheat with infinite resources anyway).

 

[Lore-Wolf]

True. as normaly would. but for normal maps it would be nice if it worked well for the AI

 

[VeljkoM]

Ok it works actually, just need to edit AI list since slaves no longer need to be trained manually.

 

[Misha]

cool, this is one step further in our naga race completion C:<

(btw.. darn.. we were painting my room and i only just turned the comp again o3o)

 

[VeljkoM]

Excellent, wish I could at least think of something also unique. How about we redesign coral buildings? The fire immolation doesn't appear quite well on buildings anyway (or at least units don't get burn visuals). Besides kinda is similar to orcs.

(nothing worse then painting rooms, hope you finish it soon)

 

[Misha]

I'm for some aura like my mana-pull sfx on the naga citadel, protecting the buildings, instead the immolation-thing Oo

 

[VeljkoM]

Aura you say, but how exactly protects? Thorns aura that repels attack back to the enemy?

 

[Misha]

I mean that functions like spiked barricades, but with some sfx like on my naga citadel's last tier

 

[VeljkoM]

Wait are you just talking about the visual effect?

 

[Misha]

kind-off..

 

[VeljkoM]

I was more interested in effect on enemy units.

 

[Misha]

well what kind of a unique effect could it be, without making the naga defense overpowered Oo (balance-wise)

 

[VeljkoM]

Duno, almost tempted to make them send tidal waves at the enemies.

 

[sacridshadow]

I like the mana absorbtion idea. Maybe that mana can be redirected to a special defense structure that deals AOE damage or shoots back at the enemies, kind of like the terran turret on the central building in Starcraft 2.

 

[VeljkoM]

Ugh well it is actually old idea how main building drains enemy mana and also recharges players mana. I kinda would have no idea how to actually channel stolen mana for something like that.

 

[Misha]

humm.. just don't make naga build on the mana field >.< rofl

 

[VeljkoM]

Hm how about combination of moon well and orc spike? Damages as long as there is mana?

 

[Misha]

cool idea

 

[Kaos]

Hello. I'm working on a Naga race myself and I'm liking a lot of the ideas here. I do want a full alliance like the other factions and don't want to stray too far from what Blizzard did so far but otherwise we seem to have very similar thoughts. Since it seems things are far a long but there's a lull, I'm going to bring up some common units. First:

The Warlord is clearly a tank. The Crypt Lord is probably the closest existing hero, at least that's what I've chosen to work from. For Abilities:

Impaling Spine (naming isn't my strong suit): Najentus in WoW seems to have some kind of damaging stun spike attack. Still working out the details but pretty straight forward move like Storm Bolt or the Warden's dagger.

Chitinous Carapace: This guy totally needs a passive armor. At the moment I'm using a de-spiked version of the Crypt Lord's and applying the unused outside of armor reduction on that ability. Best % reduction in game. Alternatively maybe a hero-ized version of the Turtle's armor. That would be a subtraction instead of % based like armor and carapace. Which might be better since it would make big attacks the best options to counter a Warlord.

Now that is all I actually have... I was gonna give him a summon prawns ability but the Makura can't swim and would wind up on the sea floor if he was swimming. I suppose I could catch if he was swimming and stop it, but it still limits the ability.

I was also thinking of some kind of roar or shout type ability, since he's a Warlord and all let him buff his troops. I really want to blow the passive slot on armor and not an aura. Nothing really screams Ultimate to me yet. Thoughts?

 

[VeljkoM]

The heroes my only weakness.

Well it is not only good idea to replace summoning with shouting its imperative so he wouldn't be Crypt Lord copy. Guess impaling Spine would work though would like to see some change from crypt lords version.

Chitinous Carapace sounds like perfect strengths hero ability as long if it isn't to much reducing. Good idea to use mountain giant/turtle ability instead of regular crypt lord. Also correct counter is fast low attack as it wouldn't be reduced.

Will roar (unnamed mass buff) be adding attack or some other bonus?

Maybe ultimate could be found in hive spell database? Maybe we could use something like Nanjentus Enrage?

 

[Kaos]

Aww crap is Impaling Spine the Crypt Lord wave attack? /facepalm Names really aren't my strong point. You can also tell I almost never play Undead.
Yeah I was actually thinking more like the Mountain King and Warden's abilities. Fair damage to one target and brief slow or stun. I'm not using the Crypt Lord's as a base.

As for counter, that depends. The minimum thresh hold is really low for the Naga turtle, 3 in fact. So if you went in with peasants, yeah they might not notice too much, but does that really help? You want to be hitting for enough in each blow that however many is taken off doesn't phase you. We can adjust those values of course, but that is the normal way it would go.

The Roar/Battle Cry I've been toying with increases armor (fits his theme) and health regen. The 2nd is because given their extreme focus on arcane magic I've given my Naga very little healing ( I have no equivilant to the Sorceror yet).

I will take a look at Najentus Enrage, that sounds like it should be a good one.

 

[VeljkoM]

Blizz named that way Nanjentus ability too (crypt lord is simple "impale"). Think maybe Crypt lord ability base would be more fun as Storm bolt is used by Naga Royal guard and Wardens is agility based ability. Maybe if it wasn't straight line but instead a circle?

Well workers have super slow attacks (think wc3 lacks fast attackers). Though also turtles don't have hero armor so that's something to be considered.

That fits way better and shouldn't be to hard to make.

Ugh well in WoW apparently it just kills all people after 8 minutes...

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=lxl22a oh and he map if you are interested.

 

[Kaos]

Wow, really nice map work. A refreshing break from the non-use or overuse of decoration I often see. Also where'd that drake shrine come from? That's awesome.

Wow, the turtle shell has a % chance to activate (set to 100) and melee and range are boolean. Would make a great deflect arrows base, but I don't think we need those here. Shell is also nice since his shout gives armor, now he won't giving himself actual armor from two abilities.

I tried 10/12/14 at level 1-3 with a min 4. Way too powerful. Maybe 6/7/8 and min 5.

 

[Kaos]

The Shell has an interesting effect. If you take it first, it's an AMAZING creeping power. You aren't missing much not being able to use his mana until level 2 and low level creeps just cry trying to hurt him. Against more reasonable foes the shell is a lot less crazy but still helps. I think I may raise the min damage and have it drop as he levels the ability to make this less absurd, but it could become a feature rather than a bug. Bear in mind he is slow at this sort of creeping and could be left vulnerable to an early attack, but he is quite good at it.

The roar variant is working nicely. I'm toying with just making it Tidal Shield since it's so freaking similair, protection and healing, just a bit less complex and for a small group.

To get impale to get behind is rather tricky to balance. I've got a big circle in front that hits the side but not behind the Warlord. For better I think I want to use another base.

Enrage kills by beefing the boss' offense in some absurd way according to the wiki. We could make the ultimate a massive temporary offense boost.

Otherwise, he's shown on a card called Tidal Surge on the wiki, could give him another attack move based on that.

 

[VeljkoM]

The map is still alpha stage I think as neither teachtree or AI are done. I got drake shrine from guy who made Naga race for teach tree contest, same for siren acolyte. Might replace it with the Turtle hatchery thing?

Turtle shell is pain to balance isn't it... at least hero is just 1 unlike mountain giant and turtle who can be made in larger numbers. By the way you can also use archer ability to make unit to take minimal damage from piercing or magic attacks. Made once great siege unit like that.

Well about roar or tidal shell depends of role of strength hero. Roar is for the more supportive type and shell is for pure tanking guy.

Well I was thinking to use the burrow impale thing that basically works like blink and impale combination. Though there weren't really many impale spells on hive and I am not good to make something complex.

Well simple attack boost would make it maybe like avatar or metamorphism just weaker as these things add hp add other things too. And we can't add defense as he would have then 3 defensive abilities which would be an overkill.

 

[Kaos]

What I mean is naming the roar/shout ability "Tidal Shield" after the Najentus WoW power. The effect is incredibly similar other than hitting a group and I don't really have a solid concept besides "yell and make things tougher".

I like the Turtle Hatchery and it should go in, quite possibly as drake building. I think the snake temple is still a solid Naga building. It could be moved to the item, specialist, or Ocean Reef buildings, all of which seem a tad less than satisfactory, at least for what they are being used for. I can handle Ocean Reef being a simple geomerge, but it having SoA's exact birth anim is pushing it.

A burrow move... interesting... I guess if ANY Naga is going to do it, it would be a shelled one. Making it water only would be logical but over limiting.

As for the Ultimate, it doesn't have to be simple. We could use metamorphosis or somesuch and make the alter form have some sort of ability. Something along the lines of the build-up heat attack (mechanically, not in theme) done by the fire elementals might be cool. The power gets stronger with repeated hits.

My map is here now: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=3vfq7b

It's very rough and not meant for real play right now. I just got an AI working for the Naga if you set AI to Orc, but making it handle my ships is another matter. Hoping AMAI might work for that.

 

[VeljkoM]

Oh well yea Tidal Shield is good and accurate name, two birds in one stone.

Well naga buildings are rare so I had to use the Mur'gul Pool for items even though it hardly fits, Ocean Reef is to simple and the specialist building (I couldn't even make good name) is a skin so it still uses night elf birth... Might check if XGM has some naga buildings to replace these.

Well spikes can be changed to be ice based or earth based instead of what crypt lord uses and water-ice effects could be added for eye candy. And model has burrow animation.

Oh yea that is fun ability, think it would be nice and maybe we could add increased speed to his attacks too? Shouldn't even require triggers.

I'll test map eventually (very lazy guy ^^, also you could use this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/blizz-like-melee-settings-extra-races-2-3-a-186851/?prev=search%3Drace%26d%3Dlist%26r%3D20

 

[Kaos]

Hey I feel your pain on the buildings. Just saying the serpent temple is one of the better ones and should be moved rather than cut.

Hey, if it was Tidal Surge for his offense move, then the teleport could be him riding the wave. Perhaps tricky to script but if others like it I will make an attempt.

The Ultimate attack mode shouldn't require triggers and I think will come out well.

So in the end he has very similair stats to a Crypt Lord, two similar moves, and two different ones. Sounds pretty good.

As for testing now I have Naga, my issue is that my map has Warcraft2 style navies and the melee AI can't handle it. I'm hoping someday I can mod AMAI to.

 

[VeljkoM]

Agreed 100% with you, just can't decide what will Serpent temple be. Think will use it as specialist building cuz its to good for upgrade building or simple shop.

Well problem with this spell is that it is based of blink so action takes about a second. It basically just blink+impale.

Yes Kam was also having problem with navy in his warcraft 2 remake but not sure if it was ever fixed. As for your race well it is to early to judge anything as most is work in progress. Though I am little confused with units tier requirements like myrmidon in tier 2 and turtles in 3? Oh and medusa stone ability is maybe to much as you just need to spawn enough of them and one shot entire army.

 

[Misha]

nice to see other Naga maps in progress )

 

[Kaos]

Those tech tree issues are mostly me still working things out. Well the Myrmidion is level 2 mostly because they were originally untiered and I just sort of put it below RG in tier without thinking.

The turtle is cause I don't use siege and forgot they are usually availible at 2. So when I made the hatchery the uber-flyer building I moved the turtle there without realizing what it would do to their siege.

It's all experimental. Also if anyone has any tech ideas, like actual research techs, let me know. I've got a bunch and the list still seems short compared to other factions. Not to mention my mod gave the others more techs too.