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[Altered Melee] Yet another Naga Race attempt

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Eagle XI, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Eagle XI Presents

    Naga Glaive
    Created by Eagle XI

    Map Info:

    This is an altered melee with Naga race available at round begin through faction choice
    dialogue. Choose nightelf to have their UI, cursor and rallypoint. The Naga have an
    expanded tech-tree. They are an amphibian race, composed of mostly high damage units,
    generally lack speed, can have problems with wood income and are slower to tech upgrades.

    Features:

    The naga race. Otherwise its just an regular melee.

    Map and gameplay changes:

    -Swapped central Goblin Merchant with Bronze Dragon roost.
    -Increased gold at initial bases to 15000 from 12500.
    -Lowered gold at expansion points to 7500 from 12500.
    -Maximum Food capped at 120.
    -Upkeep set to 60+ for low and 90+ for high.
    -The naga has primitive AI but dont expect it to play properly.
    -Peasant and Peon speed set to 220.

    Change Log:
    Change Log

    version initial release

    Published the map into Map Development for testing

    hotfix for initial release

    Fixed:
    • Command Aura working with ranged
    • Automaton skill incorrectly summoning Misha bear

    update 1

    Added:
    • 'Feedback' passive on Tidal Guardians
    • 'Cleaving Attack' passive to Naga Myrmidon and Nautilan units, and an research to unlock it in the Spawning Pool
    Removed:
    • 'Cleaving attack' from Spider Crab summons
    Changed:
    • Naga now start vith 3 naga spawn and 1 slave wagon
    • Naga Spawn no longer harvest lumber
    • Slave wagon no longer requires Tide Ziggurat
    • Lowered Hydra regeneration rate to 5.00 from 10.00
    • 'Improved Hydra Tail-fins' upgrade renamed into 'Hydra Regrowth', no longer gives movespeed bonus, gives +2.50 health regeneration instead
    • Hydras can no longer reincarnate but split into 2 Hydra Hatchlings upon death
    • renamed Snap Dragon into Snap Drake
    • renamed Sea Drake into Storm Dragon
    • Fixed button positions of Naga Enchanter, Snap Drake, Naga Myrmidon in the command card
    • Spider crab summon health reduced to 450 from 600, base damage changed to 22 from 18
    • Given 150 Manapool for Hydra units, with 25 initial mana
    • Felfire Breath on Hydras now requires 125 mana to cast
    • Felfire Breath maximum range reduced
    • Hydra Hatchling benefits from damage and armor upgrades of parent unit

    update 2

    Fixed:
    • Color tinting of Snap Drakes so they are blue
    • Barricade ward item not functioning correctly
    • Poison buff appearing as Strong Poison before upgrade
    • Prequisites of 'Cleaving Attacks' and 'Taunt' researches not including prequisites of the unit they are for
    • 'Cleaving Attacks' research hot key set to V
    • 'Burrow Charge' ultimate not requiring lvl 6
    • 'Poison arrows' skill on Sea witch hero not draining 9 mana with each shot fired
    Changed:
    • Changed spell-fx of Nazjatar gate teleportation
    • Flare gun item ability cast range down to 1200 from entire map
    • Flare gun item number of charges dropped to 2 from 3
    • Barricade ward item number of charges increased to 3 from 2
    • Re-named 'Cleaving Tridents' into 'Cleaving Attacks'
    • Enchanted Vial item now requires an Coral Bank to be built
    • Enchanted Vial item charges dropped to 3 from 5
    • Enchanted Vial item price dropped to 350g from 450g
    • Snap Drake attack range up to 650 from 550
    • Swapped 'Monsoon' skill with 'Evasion' on Sea Witch



    Credits:

    Credits list:

    Models:
    • AndrewOverload519
    • Tarrasque
    • Ujimasa Hojo
    • PROXY
    • kellym0
    • armel
    • LiOneSS
    • Callahan
    • Misha
    • Fan
    Icons:
    • HandCLAW
    • AndrewOverload519
    • Tarrasque
    • Morbent
    • Darkfang
    • Ujimasa Hojo
    • Sin'Dorei 3000
    • Mr.Goblin
    • CRAZYRUSSIAN
    • Ginufe
    • Golden-Drake
    • bigapple90
    Systems:
    • Spellbound
    • Tank-Commander
    • Mephestrial
    Spells:
    • Andreszej
    UI:
    • viiva
    • AlienAtSystem
    original Map:
    • Blizzard Entertainment


    Author's notes:

    AI cant use the Slave Wagon, cant link Nazjatar Gates and possibly never uses the Makrura hero.
    Im deeply sorry if i happent to use your resource but you did not find yourself listed amongst the credits.
    If that happens to be the case simply message me and i will fix it.

    Map Description Template Created by -Kobas-
    Find more here: Map Description - Templates
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  2. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    -reserv-
    The map is attached to main post.
    I realize there is no screenshots, so supply me some if you would like to.
    Everything inside can become subject to change if deemed necessary.
    The reason im sharing this is to get feedback, this includes but is not limited to:
    -how the naga race fares in combat against others.
    -if there are any bugs, errors, etc.

    -just updated 1-

    -just updated 2-
    'Evasion' is placeholder of sorts, i just have to think of an passive that would be definitely witchcraft.
    Need to find something else than 'Hex' to be put as second skill on Makrura hero.
    The Spider Crab summon is sort of useless,so im thinking of turning it into an supportive summon, sorts of an healer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  3. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

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    I love the Naga! I shall try this out later :) You should add screenshots displaying the units and structures!
     
  4. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    To the 10 people(assuming those are actually different people) that happent to download this:
    would you have anything to report by now ?
     
  5. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    Some screenshots wouldn't hurt!
     
  6. GhostThruster

    GhostThruster

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    well i just briefly went over the techtree, and my thoughts basically boil down to:
    1. some good ideas, but lacking in polish
    2. too many units
    3. you can't kill the hydra lol

    indepth report;
    - slave wagons are cool, but i don't see why you can't just make them available t1 and remove lumber harvesting from naga spawns. otherwise, it's just needless overlap
    - every unit had cool abilities that fit their roles, but it feels like you've stretched out certain roles and needlessly expanded them into multiple units. biggest example: myrmidons, sea giants and nautilans. the differences between the three are enough for 2 of them to co-exist, but not all 3
    - button position of snap dragon should be swapped between it and the myrmidon
    - items are a bit uninspired, and some of them don't really fit with the naga theme (crate and goblin night scope, for instance)
    - balance wise, aside from the obvious hydra bug, every category seems ticked. you got all unit roles filled, including detectors & anti-magic, and hero abilities seem diverse and balanced enough. i can't test the power of all your units without playing a lot of games against someone of similar skill, but on the surface everything seems alright

    sidenote:
    this race and your blood elf one share a lot of ideas that i had about such races for a map i'm in the process of starting. speaking of which...

    hello old friend, hope you still remember me :3 i'm developing a map that will be somewhat familiar to you
     
  7. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Yepp, thanks for commenting so i can become busy with the actual polish.
    Strange, i thought it to be around the same number as default races, ok may have an extra. The default Naga in campaign have too few units.
    Then it shall be hit with the nerf hammer real hard! :grin:
    I will take away its phoenix re-incarnation mechanic, restoring the default split on death into 2 smaller passive.
    Additionaly plan to reduce its default regen value and tie some of it as an increase into the hydra tail upgrade.
    Id like to hear your thoughts if speed increase given by the upgrade should stay, or should it be redesigned to become an +hp regen upgrade only.
    How was the strength of Hydra's breath ability ? should it be nerfed damage wise or get increased cooldown ?

    I can do this, in that case the Naga will be starting with 4 naga spawn and 1 slave wagon.
    Original idea is that you pay 150g to build an structure named Turtle Lair and that enables training of the turtles, and the slave wagon costs only gold but they still trained at the main-building.
    The idea came into being as it is now because couldnt find where have left the turtle lair building model, so was kinda forced to tie into Tide Ziggurat, which costs lumber. Did not want the player have the risk of accidentally running out of lumber due to build order 'mistake', and dont know how Ai would react to having it as an lumber worker, so spawns did end up having kept lumber gathering.
    Meanwhile have found it again so can restore the original idea.
    There will be an change to the Submerge ability, allowing submerged to regenerate faster to an extent, but lower than Burrowed. Maybe thats going to help with rendering the Myrmidon more distinct.
    The Nautilan is an rushed, placeholderish idea. Originally the second unit type that comes out of the Nazjatar gate was supposed to be an fast moving, fragile hardhitting assassin type, Dark Templar rip-off unit named "Naga Depthstalker" that becomes invisible when in water.
    Okay.
    Agree. would like to hear your suggestions, if youd like to. Things that arent going to change: Their orb and the tier2 items that are standard across all races.
    Deal with those items are that they have looted it from ships/shipwrecks, or simply have traded for it. In the case of barricades its just their random junk put to good use.
    The goblin night scope is because of them being former Nightelves, Nelves have Ultrasight, Nagas hate Nelves and raid them frequently, so they would take something to see further in the dark i thought.

    Have thoughts about changing Monsoon on Sea witch with something else.
    Royal Guard could gain something other than automaton summon as an ultimate but what could it be ? im no fan of one-click annihilates all spells.

    feelguymeme.jpg

    Hey im not the type of guy that would bash on your head for using an idea. Go ahead.

    Also remember to please comment on blood elf too ;p
     
  8. GhostThruster

    GhostThruster

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    responses in bold
     
  9. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    I didnt want to keep ensnare on it, looking at the spell animation thought he is performing an sonic ability.
    Howl of Terror would be polar opposite of Roar but probably not want that spammable, there is this cutscene where a bunch of nightelves turn into naga, including Druid of Claws turning into Myrmidons(iirc, has been a while), during the nightelf campaign.
    An +regeneration shout would be gimmicky, so settled on an minor version of Taunt.
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Interesting. I'll have to give this a look (seriously, though, like a year from now).
     
  11. Misha

    Misha

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    I'm not sure how much of this is balanced, but i am concerned with sheer detail on spammable units, and dunno if that's just my comp, or the naga armies do make your game lag :b i suggest some heavy optimization, if possible.. also, whenever some of the units die (observed only roughly while killing enemy naga) there is some weird stretchy lines of blue that come out of nowhere.. probably near the corpse of some unit.. but i dunno which.. try finding the model bugs, so i can see if they're fixable

    oh and yeah, poke me on my page :p
     
  12. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Hmm, thats new to me. Have to do some extensive testing, killing each unit in different ways to see when and then to which one it does happen, as had not encounter it.

    ----------

    will have to look into the following problems:

    second mainbuilding being built into mainbase despite AI having cleared expansion point earlier,
    AI tries to take Murgul slave and excess naga spawn workers with him in the strike force, during formationing forces in base before going out,
    AI sends one Naga spawn worker across the map to some point for some unknown purpose which i could not determine as it died walking into an thunder-lizard creep camp,

    find a way to get the AI to use Slave wagon as it runs out of lumber,
    see if AI could use Nazjatar Gate teleportation mechanic at all,

    5th AI player was set race to Human at race selection dialogue and had no AI script running.
     
  13. Misha

    Misha

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    ah i wish i knew anything about AI..

    about the the big nautilan, you probably could replace it with a 'shade-like' unit that does not attack, but serve as a scout? as much as i like to, for it i don't seem to have a fitting model of mine x3 but you could take a look? o3o
     
  14. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    You used a form of the word "Nautilus" in your race?

    <3
     
  15. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    The first idea for 2. unit that will come out of the nazjatar gate was an fast moving fragile melee assassin type unit.
    The tanky unit is covered 4x on this race with Myrmidon, Sea Giant, Hydra and Dragon Turtle so yeah can totally scrap the odd Nautilan.

    You could help me with determining another skill than 'Hex' as an skill on the pinky Makrura hero.
     
  16. Misha

    Misha

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  17. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    (not a big fan of Makrura in Naga races, but) What are the dude's other abilities? And what is his Theme & Role?
     
  18. Alok

    Alok

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    1. If that happens when the main building is upgraded, look at this: www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/how-to-create-a-full-working-custom-race.119435/page-3#post-2258865 I haven't tested that fix yet, but I have the same problem with other buildings that can upgrade, because AI must have everything that is put into building queue, so when the building gets upgraded it must rebuild it.
    But if this problem doesn't happen when the main building upgrades, be sure that you didn't put another main building into a building queue and expected it would build it at the expansion. For it to build a new main building at the expansion, you don't put another main building in the building queue, not even if it is set to the expansion town, because when there is no expansion town it will build it in the main base. Instead, you need to put "Expansion Town" when you Add Priority into the queue, and it will build a main building at the expansion, and you don't need to put a new main building after it in the queue, because it will build two then. Whatever buildings you want to build in the expansion town next you need to set the priorities' "Town:" to "Expansion".

    2. In the "Attacking" tab in the AI editor, click on each of the attack groups under "Attack Groups" on the left and check for each that it doesn't contain the worker unit on the right under "Units:". Or check if you didn't put an "Expansion Town" into the building queue too early before you could even clear any of the creep camps guarding the mines.

    3. Trigger the melee AI script for the human computer player via the trigger command "AI - Start Melee AI Script" at map initialization. Use the If/then/else action and put under the condition "Player Controller Comparison" to computer player and set the action to "AI - Start Melee AI Script" for the player, if you want the AI script to start only if the player is computer-controlled.
     
  19. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    There is an script at scenario top level controlling these, if you'd like to and are able to understand please take a look at it.

    It is an magic infused larger specimen leading the outcasts of the makrura that hire out to naga as mercs.
    He is supposed to be supportive hero rather than being tanky.
     
  20. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Ok thanks but: