Naga Rebalance Project

[McQvaBlood]

Back when this project wasn't even hosted I brought up the question of balancing the Naga race.

The main reason for this is that the Naga (in my opinion) is just half a race and because when we will get to the Night Elf X campaigns last map and then Human X's fifth and sixth map, the obvious solution will be to allow the first player to control Night Elves/Blood Elves and the other player to control the Naga.
Because giving the first player a complete race like the Night Elves or a very weak race like the High Elves and giving the other the Naga is just insane, I propose we start brainstorming to fix the issues with the Naga race.

Please note that this thread was not approved by TheSpoon, what we come up with here might or might not get into the project.

Main issues with the Naga:

• They do not have to construct a Keep or Castle to enable additional units and upgrades.
• They do not have to build any tech structure, they can research their weapon/armor upgrades in their Town Hall.
• They have one attack and armor upgrade for all units. All other races have two-two.
• They lack a drop-off point for harvested lumber.
• They can produce attack units from their Town Hall.
• They have instant access to Naga Myrmidon, a melee unit as powerful as an Abomination.
• Their Farm (Coral Bed) gives 15 food. Too much for their Farmish cost. (Which only grants 6.)
• They have only one caster unit.

My ideas so far:

• Two upgrades for Temple of Tides. (I will label them Temple of Tides II and Temple of Tides III for now.)
• Temple of Tides II requires a Spawning Grounds.
• Temple of Tides III requires a Altar of Depths.
• Temple of Tides no longer researches attack and armor upgrades.
• Temple of Tides no longer produces Mur'gul Reaver.
• Coral Bed now only grants 6 or 8 or 10 food and its cost is increased/decreased to fit this.
• Spawning Grounds no longer produces Myrmidon.
• Spawning Grounds now produces Mur'gul Reaver.
• A new tech building for researching attack and armor upgrades will be added. This building will also serve as a drop-off point for harvested lumber.
• Temple of Azshara now requires Temple of Tides II or higher.
• A new 'Mur'gul Caster' (Possible names: Mur'gul Shadowcaster, Mur'gul Snarecaster, etc.) unit with appropriate caster upgrades and three abilities will be added to Temple of Azshara.
• A new building will be added. (I will call it Myrmidon Trainer for now.)
• Myrmidon Trainer trains Myrmidons. (This is like the Tauren Totem for Orcs.)
• Myrmidon Trainer can research Ensnare and Hardened Skin. (Ensnare binds a unit to the ground, while Hardened Skin reduces the negative effects of spells and renders the Myrmidon immune to certain spells like Charm or Possession.

These are not set in stone, of course. Feel free to point out mistakes or suggest alternatives.

 

[Tsfun]

Although it is an excellent idea most of the naga units have a high food cost and the player can't build all that many of them. Also since the project is supposed remain as close to the actual campaigns as possible. So a massive change like this would kind of ruin things. I am however not entirely apposed changing to cost and food granted on the coral beds.
Also the naga only have one caster which is why the Blood elf/High elf has two casters in the two expansion human missions. If you think about the myrmidons being so powerful, 2 footmen/swordsmen/Mur'gul Reavers has about the same power and cost but.
The Naga caster(the siren) has two autocasts, not one making them more useful to have many of them.
My main concern is sticking as close to the original single player campaign as possible, and although many of the ideas are good for an altered melee, they are meant to be the strong and expensive race in the campaign.

 

[Twizter]

How about also making an upgrade for the Naga to be able to hide underwater? (If they don't already have that ofc >.>)

 

[McQvaBlood]

They do, it's called Submerge and it can be researched in the Temple of Tides.
I don't think that should be moved or made more expensive, after all, it is a sort of trademark skill for Naga.

 

[Twizter]

I think we should change that turtle thing too. Place it in the same building as the Myrmidon Trainer and have it need Temple of Tides II. Perhaps even make it weaker since it always seemed so damn powerful to me

 

[McQvaBlood]

The Myrmidon Trainer is there to train Myrmidons only, so that if you really want the most powerful unit, you have to spend additional resources and wait some more before they become available.
But yes, the Dragon Turtle is very powerful and I do agree it should require a Temple of Tides II and perhaps some additional stat changes.

(I've added it to the list.)

Also, what about the Snap Dragon? It's like the Dryad, only more powerful and does not have Abolish Magic. Should it also have some requirement?

 

[Twizter]

Hmmm.. thats a tough one. I think it should just have a small stat change, but im not sure on this one

 

[TheSpoon]

I've not replayed the Frozen Throne chapters recently, so I can't really be sure whether this massive re-balance would be necesarry or not.

Even if we do this, I do not think it is necessary to go all the way to turn it into a balanced melee race. We may just need to alter some unit costs.

I'll replay these chapters soonish to decide whether any balancing could be necessary.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I know that it might not be that important, but... yeah, I just had too much time on my hands.
This will be solved with school starting soon though.

 

[TheSpoon]

Oh how I envy you :C,
Any spare time I have goes to his project xD

 

[McQvaBlood]

You don't have summer breaks in the UK?
Or do you go to a university? I know things can get strange there.

Any spare time I have goes to his project xD

On that note, though, when are you going to release the new chapter? I don't want to be mean and I don't want to hurry you either, but we really want to envelop the skies in the chaotic green flames of the Legion now.

 

[TheSpoon]

Today with any luck!

 

[doombringer]

I actually like playing the Naga as default are not that bad as their units are fairly strong and versatile so the reduced unit types are not such a problem.

Maybe keeping the naga as they are but just changing any costs if certain units are unbalanced but I dont think that new units should be added.

Reading through your suggestions again I agree that coral bed food needs changing as well as a lumber drop off (maybe make the spawning grounds or coral beds lumber drops?) also if you make myrmidons more expensive the lack of tech needed for them should be balanced.

 

[TheSpoon]

I think I'll move the Myrmidons to a Tier 2 sort of thing.
Maybe give them a few extra researches. Its not been properly planned, but I think I will make changes on a medium to large scale.

 

[Lich Prince]

I'm siding with Blizzard on this one. No need for all these changes.

Myrmidons are the Naga Race's main attack unit, they should stay trainable at their place, maybe change their costs abit. If it's planned that they require an upgrade then the Mur'gul Reavers should stay at their place aswell.

Oh and adding an unnecessary caster to the race that will not be used by the player is unnecessary.

However, the ideas that I agree on are:

-Coral Bed providing less food.
-New lumber drop-off building that contains the race upgrades(that are not changed).

 

[McQvaBlood]

Well, even if you remove the extra two main buildings, Temple of Tides II and III from my build, you get a much better race.
What's essential:
- Lumber drop-off with researches from Temple of Tides moved here.
- Coral bed food production rebalance.

You could also consider these:
- Myrmidon moved to a new building.
- Mur'gul Warrior moved from Temple of Tides to Spawning Grounds and Mur'gul Warrior rebalance so that it is not so very weak.

 

[TheSpoon]

This thread is rejected and closed due to the nature of this announcement: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/.../unfortunate-announcement-179531/#post1715704