Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Results

Discussion in 'The Arena' started by Naze, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Naze

    Naze

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    MeleeMappingContest#2 RESULTS.jpg

    MELEE MAPPING CONTEST #2 - RESULTS

    Create a competitive 1v1 melee map that excels in terrain, dynamic, and creativity, but most importantly balance.

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    • 1st place: 30 reputation points
    • 2nd place: 20 reputation points
    • 3rd place: 10 reputation points
    • Judges: 5 rep
    The three winning entries will receive an award icon, representing the winning entry.

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    [​IMG]
    scoreboard.png
    Final Score = (ReachedVotes/POSSIBLE_VOTES)*20 + (JudgeScore/MAXIMUM_JUDGE_SCORE)*80
    • 80% of the Final Score shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s)
    • 20% of the Final Score shall be determined by the results of the public poll.

    Click here to download


    Blood Raven
    Aetherium
    Score
    Balance
    1. Item drops aren't perfect; for instance, two tomes and Scourge Bone Chimes for the Laboratory camp is a bit too much.
    2. I see how you tried to balance a flying units only camp by letting them drop a rune of mana, one of healing and a tome assuming players have a hero which can attack air and only or few counter-air (ground) units.
    3. Rune of the Watcher is not dangerous near a Marketplace especially on a bigger 1v1 map.
    4. The problem Mana Burn-able neutral hostile units is that even if they have the lowest camp range they will still cast that spell on nearby units so it'd be best to have those satyrs as much in the back of the camp as possible.
    5. Undead only unit camps cannot be affected by Disease Cloud. For instance Death Coil has a counter, Holy Light but there's no antithesis to Disease Cloud.
    6. Mine guardians should have the highest camp range to avoid players using tower exploits near them without the hostiles impeding the working process. For the middle mine it's somewhat understandable for early game so you could scout and move troops through there without being forced to fight the neutrals. However, that does not explain the same camp range for the other mines.
    7. Good call on flying only neutrals for the Mana Fountain since these types of neutral buildings are controversial. However, note that most air units (in this case all) have piercing attack type which is one of the lowest damage dealing to hero armour. Heroes could potentially come for a refill and run. Most advantaged are the Blademaster, Paladin and other healing casters. Another problem could be heroes like the Far Seer, Naga Sea Witch, Lich etc. who could destroy the camp on their own with their AoE/multiple target spells). Here it is especially problematic because 99% of those air units have heavy armour conferring weak magic resistance.
    8. Ranged only units in camps require the balance of being able to cast spells otherwise they are weak against normal attack type units which are mostly used in early game.
    9. Ancients of War are surely viable here.
    10. Lateral expansions could be closed with towers. More unbuildable tilework would be better.
    11. Some neutral units like undead or elemental (including voidwalkers) do not leave corpses. This might make the Rod of Necromancy useless. However, maybe this makes early game a bit less frustrating against undead. Alas, there's quite the critter number. The thing about this is finding them but easily killing them whilst it is harder to finish off a camp for skeletons. Usually, critters are placed near camps with creeps which leave no bodies.
    -3
    Terrain
    1. Levitating planks look weird because not everything is floating around. Ships doing that, is OK. Water seems to go downward but other heavy things like rocks float.
    2. The layout could be problematic for some players as some zones might get cluttered in mid-late game by infantry. Also, rushing tactics are a bit slower now.
    -1
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    1. The map makes use of a lot of runes and stronger creep camps to compensate for its size and labyrinthic passages, meaning moving from one camp to another could be done faster not wasting too much time on regeneration.
    2. Flying units might be used more often here due to the layout. Maybe, we'll even see many Zeppelin airborne tactics too.
    -1
    Bugs
    There are issues with unit walk animations when going down the stairs doodads/destructibles in that some players might have a harder time casting spells on those units.
    -1



    Rufus
    Aridity
    Score
    Balance
    1. It's problematic to have units and even strong ones almost in the middle of the road especially in early game where they could potentially engage scouting units and be abused by one player to attack the other player.
    2. Tomes of Experience should not drop from green camps to avoid the Blademaster being pumped up too early.
    3. Flying only neutral camps is OK for those like dragons/late game but not too many as there are now including the harpies of which one is very powerful.
    4. The tenth level Salamanders drop low level items. Even if the creature is only accompanied by a weaker one, that shouldn't make the reward so cheap.
    5. Expansion mines are quite exposed. This is problematic for Acolytes which can be killed easily.
    6. Dragons give too much a bigger reward. Two tomes +2 (and it happened to be agility; imagine Blademaster), an Ice Shard and a Rune of Healing.
    -4
    Terrain
    1. Sharp raised terrain should be avoided when it doesn't make much sense e.g. not being covered by a rocky or icy tile. The curving should be smooth.
    2. The problem with mostly one tiles with little to no doodad wide terrain is that it doesn't make too much sense gameplaywise. If at least there were some more cliffs/dunes to make the desert feel less empty and uninviting and some camps in the corners of the map or somewhere in the desert. As it's now, there should have been pathing and vision blockers so no one could go out of the central part of the map which is the point of interest. Sure, for flying units, the map edges would be fine. It looks as if the map is not finished because of the current surrounding desert. For campaigns/single-player maps it might not be a problem.
    3. For an oasis-like region, there sure isn't any water.
    4. There might be a slight possibility for mercenaries not being able to get out of the southern camp's nothern edge zone if you buy the merc while troops are around the camp.
    -2
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    The idea is a good one but not precisely executed. In what strategy is concerned, it's a bit of a fast game but not quite different from regular melee.
    -4
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Arrr
    Avoj v1.0
    Score
    Balance
    Neutral hostile units should partially encircle neutral buildings, especially mines. Theoretically, towers could be built somewhere near the expansions as the guards are a bit to the farthest side of the mine and those in front have the lowest camp range. Mine guardians should have the highest camp range.
    -1
    Terrain
    Reminisces of Plunder Isle. It's quite carefully designed, doodad placement and all.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    Although it has many pathways not to bore the players and enough room to give them relief, the overall design plays it quite safe with strategies being akin to those of BlizzEnt melee maps. Even item drops are in the safe zone. Creeps are a bit repetitive.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Ascrelle
    Bloodmyst Quarry V1.1
    Score
    Balance
    Magic immune only neutral hostiles aren't quite a good idea but here they are for late game so they might not pose such a big problem on 1v1 map.
    -0
    Terrain
    The red, especially in the water zones might annoy some people. I remember a commentator on the matter from the previous contest whose nickname isn't quite that far from the hue I mentioned.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    Routes aren't impressive. The overall aspect is that of a ladder map but daring to import custom things for a change is a plus.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    mafe
    Brightwater Oasis
    Score
    Balance
    1. The Wand of Illusion could be a powerful tool if not countered properly. It should not be dropped too early in the game.
    2. Expansions are pretty close to each other. However, humans might have a hard time getting the one on the cliff with those lizards splash damaging militia. Maybe, it's a last choice so militia won't quite be a thing then.
    3. Rune of the watchers are problematic in that if they are too close to the enemy's base, scouting will be lessened in that part and the other player might be at a disadvantage if a watcher ward is not under said player's control too. Sure, changes are low that the southern player would go for the northern Goblin Merchant camp before the northern player. Chances are even lower for the same player to get both wards.
    -1
    Terrain
    It is well pieced together, stands out for its name, partially since there is no desert surrounding this place, at least, not visibly.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    1. Although not leaving BlizzEnt design out of the question, cliffs and the layout in general can spawn some interesting albeit annoying strategies like tower and ranged siege unit placing on the cliffs near the tavern for middle control.
    2. As om the previous contest, there is randomization of some neutral buildings, even their position on the map. In a way, it would have been interesting not to know which building is there through the fog of war until getting to it.
    -2
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Rockstar356
    Desert's Edge
    Score
    Balance
    1. Too many attribute giving items from one camp should be avoided. The one near the mercenaries gave me 1 tome of +1 agility, 1 tome of +2 agility and a Robe of the Magi +6. Also, the Circlet of Nobility might be too much for a green camp, especially the nearest to the base. Blademasters will be so happy.
    2. Goblin Merchant Shops could have been placed a bit farther of each other to avoid the Blademaster speed running to buy the circlets.
    -2
    Terrain
    It looks good. There's this contrast and the layout is permissive.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    This map has almost everything ladder wishes but has no experimentation out of the box.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    The Panda
    (2)Flooded Waters
    Score
    Balance
    1. The hostiles guarding the mercs are problematic for scouting as they are not encircled by trees/doodads.
    2. A tad too many Gloves of Haste.
    3. There might be an issue with undead vs human when the distances between the mines and their bases are the same. It might turn into a militia+hero vs ghouls+hero early on for fast expansion. Depending on hero choice this might be problematic with the Lich or Crypt Lord, maybe even the Dreadlord against the heavy armoured militia. Ghouls are generally fewer by then, at least those which are taken from lumber gathering. They are however more resistant than militia and only the Mountain King has an instant crowd control spell.
    -2
    Terrain
    Chromaticism is somewhat mono. However, the edited doodads and their number and variation are what make the map attractive.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    Some care has been put in avoiding tower cluttering at the ramps. With all its niceness, it still heavily resembles BlizzEnt melee patterns.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Avahor
    Forgotten straits
    Score
    Balance
    1. The problem with many green camps near each other is that Blademasters will get the eight pack early in the game which results in more success in killing workers and low health units. This could be countered with some of the camps having flying units and/or moving them farther/exchanging them with other stronger camps.
    2. Potion of Divinity should not drop from a 5th level Ogre as the item is quite precious. The same with the 5th level makrura.
    3. Usually neutral camps and buildings should be partially encircled by doodads/trees to avoid lame tactics like training a merc and running with it or buying items too easily (while the guards are still there).
    4. Militia kind of have a hard time reaching the opponent's base early on. It might kill tower rushing tactics which are annoying to some but, in this case, this also means not being able to use militia properly to get the closest mine.
    -3
    Terrain
    1. Overall, it's nice though some attention to details could have been put especially on where the soil tiles meet the water tiles to not leave it look rectangularly. Also, some ramps could look smoother.
    2. There are places where travelling with more units requires care especially near passes to expansions and near the ramp to the mercenary camps.
    -1
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    It's not quite the typical BlizzEnt template. There's this thing about most neutral buildings being farther away than usual which makes PvP more potent early on. However, this also comes with some balance issue.
    -4
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Erkan
    Glowing Doom
    Score
    Balance
    1. The way to the expansions on the edge can be closed by towers. That makes for some time consuming and annoying gameplay. These gold mines have the most gold from all expansions. Usually, the more exposed ones should have more gold.
    2. Very good that you've placed flying only units near the fountain and somewhat strong (together). However, it's usually advisable to have magic immune units guarding mana fountains to avoid them easily being destroyed by spell casters (including heroes) as many tough creatures have heavy armour which is weak against magic.
    3. Undead only neutral hostiles are not affected by Disease Cloud. Since there aren't too many of these camps, it's not a problem. There are enough critters so undead don't have to worry about not using the Rod of Necromancy.
    4. Scourge Bone Chimes dropping from the 5th level ogre might be too much accompanied by the Ankh of Reincarnation from the magi. Generally items which give auras (e. g. Alleria's Flute of Accuracy) should not drop from weak units like 2nd-3rd level Skeletons especially when that camp also offers another item even if not that powerful as the Slippers of Agility +3.
    -2
    Terrain
    1. The issue with custom trees is that players aren't acquainted to them yet and they might not know what to think especially seeing them bigger than other trees and moving ("are they even trees? Do they contain more lumber because they're bigger"?).
    2. The crystals, they look solid (they are) and it makes it feel as if they would actually impede ground unit movement where they are but they act like grass, units being able to walk through them. Apart from that, there are some blue plants (?) which definitely don't look as if ground units would pass through them but they can (mana fountain zone).
    3. Some people might not enjoy the blueness of the mid-northern zone. I remember one commentator in the previous contest being annoyed by red. Maybe, blue is better as it's a calm colour. The only visual "problem" is that the blue nether drakes are chameleonic on that terrain.
    4. Pathing isn't perfect in what the custom made doodads are concerned. There are places where ground units basically partially go through rocks/cliffs (e.g. fountain mana zone).
    5. Theoretically, if enough units are near the mercenary camps, hiring a merc might make it appear to the northern part of the camps and that means the unit will remain blocked between said camp and doodads.
    -2
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    It's creative more on the visual side as it's not too far from BlizzEnt melee mapping.
    -2
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Knecht
    Logging Camp
    Score
    Balance
    The mercenary camp has some controversial units for early game: the Ogre Magi (Bloodlust) and the slowing Mud Golem. Also, the Gnoll Warden's Purge. All three combined plus a Naga Sea Witch or a Crypt Lord or any other hero which can slow or stun would make for really annoying gameplay. Also, the camp isn't quite in the open so buying and running away with mercs is really viable.
    -1
    Terrain
    1. There is no tileset combination but Fall doesn't come shorthanded. The goldy hues in both the terrain and doodads/destructibles are pleasing.
    2. Although the tree bridges are quite the nifty thing of the map, the way to bring them down is counterintuitive. One would think they are just to be attacked by if not any unit, at least siege ones but the place of the attack has to be somewhere near them where the runes are and not on the tree bridges themselves. Flame Strike can turn those trees into bridged and it might make the Blood Mage more useful not being forced to consume time and resources on Mortar Teams.
    -1
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    Mixing BlizzEnt terrain with some fancy means of creating more accessible paths is both keeping balance and innovating.
    -2
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Ragnaros17
    Mars Lighthouse
    Score
    Balance
    1. The map is not quite symmetrical. Some creep camps are misplaced in the south opposed to those in the north. The merc camp seems to be closer to the northern player.
    2. Shops, are quite near each other. That might let the Blademaster buy two circlets early and the Boots of Speed.
    3. Militia can even give a few hits before expiring in the enemy's base.
    4. Staff of Teleportation from the nearest expansion mob. This is somewhat problematic in that there are also two shops near each other and Town Portal on top of that. Heroes should not have going home advantage so easily. Taking that item only from shops would be better.
    5. Running away with Shredders isn't hard and they can be repaired too.
    6. Voidwalkers with Cold Arrows could be problematic along with heroes with stun/slow spells. These mercs are not even expensive and only take 2 food and are available in the early game. Plus the Mud Golem but at least it's in a different camp far away. Same with the Kobold Geomancer.
    7. The mana fountain is well guarded although magic immune units would be better to avoid spell casters having an advantage against the guardians especially if they have heavy armour.
    -2
    Terrain
    1. Many details on the map edges. They will rarely be seen unless flying units are used and the reachable by Zeppelin zone in the northern left corner doesn't have a mine to keep player eyes on the zone. The place is only visited to buy items, loot and gain experience from the market's guardians.
    2. That water on the ice looks as if it's not there without close inspection making it seem like the ship floating over ice.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    Keeping it melee safe layout and itemwise but daring with more merc camp variation and doodad imports.
    -2
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    PrinceYaser
    Ocean Beyond
    Score
    Balance
    1. There are two fountains of mana and they are weakly guarded. Although they are not close each other, one would suffice but being surrounded by strong neutral hostiles. It's good that one of the fountains is not one for health because then it would have been quite problematic.
    2. A bit of issue with building towers near the narrow zones taking players out of their bases. Maybe, more unbuildable tile would have been better even if there are two paths for each starting point.
    3. In experienced player hands Fairy Fire (harpy mercenary) and Orb of Corruption (undead shop) could become lethal on enemy heroes.
    4. Mine guardians (nearest ones where only lizards are) should have the longest camp range so that players would not build towers somewhere near there and use them to kill the creeps by drawing them to the towers. Also, these expansion mines are too exposed. Acolytes and workers in general except Wisps might have a hard time against Blademasters and not only.
    5. Neutral Camps other than those protecting the mines should have the lowest camp range. The ones guarding the Laboratory don't. In a way it is good because there are no other camps around and there is no risk of drawing other neutral hostile attention and the centaurs coming at the player earlier helps to avoid easily buying Shredders and running away with them.
    6. Trees aren't that many for expansions. In a 1v1 map it can work out.
    7. Shops are a bit close to each other for the Blademasters not to be tented to buy.
    8. Island mines could easily be protected by towers. Maybe, it's here where the Zeppelin might win over the Transport Ship.
    9. The shipyard seems to be overly protected compared to the laboratory. Of course, one might buy a ship at night where damage to it and the buyer would be much less.
    -2
    Terrain
    1. There is some space between some tree ranges. Although not problematic, it doesn't look well plus those spaces filled could mean more lumber.
    2. The issue with going for the dragons is that the patch of land under them is small and the boat is forced to unload right under them, almost directly in battle. Sure, flying units could be used but they aren't usually used as large armies in 1v1 ladder. Making the land patch bigger would hurt the visuals as it would bring the mini-island too close to the mainland. Placing the dragons a bit backward would do some good but the real issue is the fact that the dragons might die over water, theoretically and that means erasing the item(s) from the game.
    -2
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    BlizzEntesque but spicing it up with islands and boats which are rarely if not never seen in ladder. There's even the choice for aerial transport. It might be better for only one of the transport means to be available.
    -4
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    JaleVeliki
    Ruins of Azshara
    Score
    Balance
    1. It's problematic to have many green camps so near each other (here 4, even if in the middle) as Blademasters will hunt them and get items quite early on.
    2. Slowing alongside magic immune neutral hostile units might make it difficult for humans to properly expand using militia however here there are two expansions of which one is guarded by non-casters and non-magic immune units.
    3. There are two mana fountains, although somewhat properly defended (more flying units would be advisable but not with heavy armour unless they are magic immune). The issue is that it will be harder to scout/spy on them than if there'd only be one. The 100% chance drop on for the Runes of the Watcher is ideal and present assuming one player won't get both. When there's only one fountain, the game turns more to a King of the Hill type. Considering the map's layout it'd be a bit difficult to place just one when the Tavern is in the middle.
    4. Laboratories should be encircled like the Goblin Merchant and Mercenaries Camps too (attention for hired units not to be blocked between doodads). Shredders can be bought and players can run away with them with the guards there and the machines can be repaired.
    -2
    Terrain
    Everything fits well, dark hued water, ruins and autumn.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    It might look beautiful but stays true to BlizzEnt melee design.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    RFWH
    Ryukyu
    Score
    Balance
    1. Mines are not sheltered by doodads/trees. This is very problematic for workers especially acolytes who can be easily slaughtered. Not everybody is a nice player.
    2. There is not enough wood or correctly written, the expansion main buildings would be somewhat far from the trees because of how the mines are positioned.
    3. The map layout is not symmetrical in that the southern player first goes to the nearest mine and then to the tavern in a line while the northern one goes directly to the tavern even if the distances between players and taverns are the same.
    4. There are two taverns which can be problematic as they are not quite far from the main bases and especially expansions. Having on tavern in the middle would ensure mostly the same distance between it and the mines. Heroes can be hired or resurrected instantly which might give an advantage to players who do that first when attacking. A possibility for two taverns could be having them in the far corners of the map instead away from the bases.
    5. Generally neutral hostile units not enclosed into a semicircle could become an issue for scouting units.
    6. There are no critters to compensate for the mostly undead or elemetal camps in what the Rod of Necromancy is concerned.
    7. It's easy to run with a shredder from the laboratory. Zeppelins are not even going to be attacked by the guardians as they are all melee.
    8. The guards of the nearest mines don't have the highest camp range as they should for players not to easily build towers near them.
    -4
    Terrain
    1. Trees are too spaced leading to less lumber, small units like workers, Footmen, Ghouls, Archers etc. going through them/hiding.
    2. Some palm trees grow on rocks it seems.
    -1
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    It's daring in what layout/symmetry is concerned and especially mine placement is but the execution is far from well thought out.
    -4
    Bugs
    Trees should not have so much space between them.
    -1



    Mr.Henci
    Silverwind Clearing
    Score
    Balance
    Many green camps near each other. Let the Blademaster run a little for that experience and booty.
    -1
    Terrain
    The water falls but it seems to not be realistically flowing from somewhere as it comes from a small lake on a mountain/cliffs. Maybe, the flowing should be done the other way around antigravity otherwise the terrain needs to be restructured the other way around. Joking aside, the lake's rim should not be visible, it should be water like in the northwest. Or, it could flow out of caverns.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    The map does play it safe. Whilst the looks are its attraction, the rest is just plain old melee.
    -4
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Twilight
    The screaming river
    Score
    Balance
    1. Green camps are quite near each other. Blademasters could do a marathon for early looting and levelling up.
    2. Trees are kind of far from the main building especially when most of the tree ranges are very thin and that would almost force players to build a mill always on the single side which has the most trees. Night Elves don't have this small disadvantage. Expansions have a couple of trees to offer and that's it.
    3. The Wand of Illusion is a powerful item. It should not drop from mere murlocs or wolves. Same should go for the Wand of Lightning Shield. It's not that often Blademasters use Mirror Image early but who knows.
    4. Undead only neutral camps should be accompanied by one or two critters for the Rod of Necromancy to be useful. By the way, there are no critters it seems.
    5. Healing Fountains are usually problematic and with two it's hard to spy on the enemy. It might be easier for night elves with their wisps or huntress sentinels (now being a permanent spell without requiring research). Indeed, the fountains seem to be heavily guarded at least against infantry.
    6. The placement of main buildings for expansions is quite in the way of battle (middle of the road/path).
    -3
    Terrain
    1. Tree spacing isn't quite proper. That means less lumber.
    2. The waterfall in the northeast comes from the ice/snow itself? It is maybe made from the snow/ice melting. However, that does not explain the speed it comes down with. On the other hand in the opposite side of the map there's an actual river flow which makes sense as it comes from somewhere logically and not from a small pond or cliff.
    -1
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    There is some neat design in all of this although mixing ladder melee and controversial material like health fountains.
    -4
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Isaak
    The Cursed Salesman
    Score
    Balance
    1. Having no shelter for acolytes and external workers around the mines makes for easy kill for Blademasters and rushers. It is not particularly problematic since no one can come from behind the base even if the terrain might give that impression. However, expansions are more exposed especially the southern one.
    2. Green camps are somewhat close to each other but going for the farther ones means going into enemy territory.
    3. Militia can even leave a few scars, maybe on acolytes too with the proper handling.
    4. Rune of the Watchers can be controversial if alone and in important places like the map's middle.
    5. Crystal Balls are also problematic since they are permanent items which require no mana (sure, they have a cooldown) and not only are they used to see through the fog of war from any corner of the map to another but they also detect invisible (hiding) units.
    -2
    Terrain
    The scenery is lovely. One might spot a whale diving into water and emerging through soil but it's fantasy.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    All in all, it's BlizzEnt-like.
    -5
    Bugs
    No bugs have been found.
    -0



    Remixer
    Torn World
    Score
    Balance
    1. Fairy Fire casting mercs might be powerful in the hands of an experience undead with an Orb of Corruption. Problem is that the casting unit is a flying one and could easily be used for abuse.
    2. Good that there is only one shop in what the Blademaster steroid abuse is concerned but some heroes/players might suffer from movement speed penalty until the Boots of Speed stock refills.
    3. Trees aren't quite that many.
    -2
    Terrain
    It doesn't quite give the impression of a torn world (the one you were aiming for) but it surely shows something rarely seen in melee visuals.
    -0
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    However mixed the units, terrain have been, BlizzEnt melee patterns are still there.
    -4
    Bugs
    One of the Felguards of the nearest camps is neutral, not hostile.
    -1



    foje tit
    Aesopian Waterway
    Score
    Balance
    1. Trees are scarce and it's problematic the way they are placed, the spacing, and small units (workers, footmen, ghouls etc.) can get in some places where units should not be able to.
    2. Usually closest green camps should drop attribute giving items either a tome or an item for the inventory but not a potion of healing.
    3. Building space is small and players might end up building outside of the starting zone where they are exposed or right near or on ramps which thins the path and leaves those buildings without visibility further to the ramp's side.
    4. Neutral hostile camps should not be in the middle of the road to pose a threat for early scouting. Here, it's only on one path happily.
    5. Mine guardians should have the highest (normal) camp range so towers won't be built near them before engaging them.
    6. The biggest turtle doesn't drop anything while a weaker one does (Rune of Braces). That's not too good.
    7. Mercs with Entangling Roots and Slow might be problematic alongside heroes with similar abilities.
    8. Apart from two fountains of health, the guardians are not properly place and player units might be able to use the fountains without engaging the neutrals.
    -5
    Terrain
    1. There are many places where pathways are narrow and somewhat long which makes it hard to fight or move with a bigger army. Even a few units might become problematic as heroes might get stuck and become easy prey when on low health.
    2. Tree placement is artificial, they are all in a line.
    -2
    Creativity & Uniqueness
    The map layout and how creeps are placed in general are uninviting. Feels as if not enough care and thought was put in the making of the map. It does not match or come that close to BlizzEnt quality. Itțs a chaotic to random design.
    -10
    Bugs
    There are no bugs, seemingly.
    -0


    Click here to download


    First Place
    Ruins of Azshara by
    JaleVeliki


    Second Place
    Avoj by
    Arrr


    Third Place
    Silverwind Clearing by
    Mr.Henci


    Download all the entries here!

    Contest thread | Poll thread
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  2. Rufus

    Rufus

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    Thanks for the great effort judges! It's really nice to see how much energy you invested in reviewing each map fairly.
    Kudos! :)

    Well-made winning entries too! The terrain on Arrr's map is really beautiful, my absolute favourite in this contest.
    Congratulations guys!
     
  3. Arrr

    Arrr

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    My only vote went to @JaleVeliki , looks like I hit the jackpot!
    Congratulations
     
  4. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Congratulations to the winners!!, thanks to the judges for their work!!, and thanks everybody for participating!!
     
  5. Pyrogasm

    Pyrogasm

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    If you want this to be weighted properly then POSSIBLE_VOTES should be the maximum votes any 1 entry got, not the total number of votes cast. Your description is unclear which it is.
     
  6. foje tit

    foje tit

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    Congrats guys
     
  7. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    Great contest! Many thanks to everyone involved!

    Congrats to all, lets step up the game for the next one! :)
     
  8. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Congrats to everyone! And also, I want to thank everyone involved, judges, mod, @Ragnaros17 and all participants, for making this contest possible. It was fun and if we can gather as many people as for this contest, we could host another melee mapping contest in near future.

    Cheers everybody and stay mapping!
     
  9. PrinceYaser

    PrinceYaser

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    Congratz, guys!
    It's actually pretty good for a first try! :D Thanks to the judges for the effort, those are some cool notes for me/us to learn!

    Best regards!
     
  10. SeTh_WC3

    SeTh_WC3

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    Hi guys !
    Congratulation to the winners and to all the participants and organizers of this contest !
    I don't know if you have already plans over it but what about making a WC3 tournament with these maps ? @Mr.Henci
    I remember watching the melee map contest cup last year that featured maps from the first contest and I really enjoyed it.
    Once again the entries are really great and I would be glad to arrange a cup with a special mappool made of the winning maps and few others entries.
    Since I am new here I cannot send private messages yet but if you are interested in it you can pm me to discuss about it.
     
  11. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Probably it's just a misunderstanding.

    He doesn't take the number of casted votes, but the number of votes one could get at maximum (aka amount of persons who voted/possible votes), because one person can cast multiple votes.
    Otherwise, if taken all casted votes instead, then the relation 80%/20% wouldn't be matched, as for example it may happen everyone voted for you, but you still don't get the whole 20% from poll score, because there exist more votes. (if it would be: POLL_SCORE = (myVotes / ALL_CASTED_VOTES) *20
     
  12. Pyrogasm

    Pyrogasm

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    Yes I agree it should not be ALL_CASTED_VOTES because of exactly the scenario you mentioned. While having it as NUMBER_OF_VOTERS (as you suggested was used) on the outset seems logical, it is subject to vote manipulation and still massively devalues the poll weighting. It should be HIGHEST_VOTES so those entries with the most votes gain the full 20 and everyone else gains a portion of the 20 based on how close they are to that most popular entry. Imagine the following scenario in which NUMBER_OF_VOTERS is used:
    • Persons 1-10 vote for entry A
    • Persons 1-5 additionally vote for entry B
    • Nobody votes for entries C-G
    Entry A gains 10/10*20 = 20 of the 20 possible points and is the clear winner; B gains 5/10*20 = 10 points. This is logical because nobody did better than A, so A should earn the 'maximum' amount for that part of the score! However it is riding on the technicality that A got a vote from all poll participants; if even one person doesn't vote for A (in addition to any other votes they may cast) there is no way to gain the maximum points from the vote section. Now imagine we add in 5 more voters:
    • Person 11 votes only for entry C
    • Person 12 votes only for entry D
    • Person 13 votes only for entry E
    • Person 14 votes only for entry F
    • Person 15 votes only for entry G
    Now by the NUMBER_OF_VOTERS method A gains 10/15*20 = 13 points, despite still being the clear winner; B gains only 5/15*20 = 7 points. Entries C-D gain 1/15*20 = 1 point. Persons 11-15 have radically altered the number of points awarded to A simply by voting for 1 non-A entry, though the majority of voters prefer A. I don't think we have a vote-manipulation problem here but this happens even with non-malicious intent simply because there are many more entries than total number of votes that can be cast per user (duh). Doing some math on the poll results I conclude 66 users voted, and BloodRaven received nearly double the votes as the next most popular entry (30 vs 16). Using NUMBER_OF_VOTERS, that only awards 9 points out of a possible 20! Everyone else gets less than that.

    20% on the poll is already small, why reduce it even further (unless the intent is to give the illusion of the poll mattering at all when it only added 1-3 points for nearly everyone). Does this change the actual results significantly? No, I expect not. But it does change them. Please refute my logic here--why should it be done with NUMBER_OF_VOTERS rather than HIGHEST_VOTES?
     
  13. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    I see where you're coming from. I think this was how it was handled in the last Melee Contest. It surely can be done like this, if wanted.

    Anyways, at least my understanding is such:
    • The guy A in your example got 10 voters from 15 voters -> receives 75 66%^^ of maximum poll score
    .. if not, and instead the reached "10 votes" will become the "new maximum", then it creates new relations between the contestant A, and all others. An unrealistic example, but too show how changing relations might affect the result in an for me less good way:
    • 100 contestants
    • contesntant A got 2 votes, all 99 other ones got only 1 vote
    => if now contestant A gets the whole poll score, 20%, then all others get 10% for it.
    Even he got only 2/101 votes, he defines a new maximum poll score, and rises from all others extremly.

    In the current applied forumla, contestant A would get only a smaller amount of the reachable poll score, but his distance to others would have still the same relation same as other contestants have had in the poll.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  14. Pyrogasm

    Pyrogasm

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    Yes, in an example like the 101 votes A does gain significantly more than anyone else, but whether that's a fair representation of the vote distribution is a matter of perspective. They got double the votes and they gained double the points vs. they got one more vote and they gained 10 more points.

    You're right that relative points vs. absolute points do scale similarly but the ratio between the two methods scales with how much of the vote the most popular entry got. Consider a relative vs. absolute award where H is highest vote and N is number of voters: P_rel = V/H*W and P_abs = V/N*W so we have P_rel/P_abs = (1/H)/(1/N) = N/H. So the points awarded when scaled relatively will be N/H times higher; if H is much smaller than N (your 101 vote example) then the relative method will give significantly more points vs the absolute method, but if H is closer to N (my second example with 15 voters) then the difference isn't so significant.

    What I am actually concerned with is that when using absolute scaling it is disingenuous to say that the poll has a 20% weighting because it doesn't. It has a 20%*H/N weighting!
     
  15. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    1/101 vs 2/101 or 1/1 vs 1/2 - both is double.
    Not sure I understand. Every person has the chance to maximally get the 20%. Only if the weighting is 20%, it does not mean there must be a person who gets it. There could be also be a must then who gets the 80% from judge, the one who scored best. There can be then a person, too, who has 100% score for balance, a person who has 100% points for creativity, etc.
    The pre-defined relations between scoring-categories (balance/creativity/.. OR poll/judge) should be constant, and not be affected by reached scores. I don't think it's disingenuous. Anyways, I'll just be quiet now ;D congratz to all.
     
  16. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Yes, that would be nice.
     
  17. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Judging seem to be super off.

    [​IMG]

    Are we even judging the same map here? how can the score be soooo different.

    I mean, how can one think the balance is 9/10 and another 2/10?
    Same for terrain, those are relatively objective criteria so how the difference can be so large is beyond me

    It does not impact me in any way, but it reminds me of the cinematic contest where the points were also super off because of judges having different ways of judging.
     
  18. Naze

    Naze

    Off-Topic Moderator

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    Awesome contest guys! Congrats to the winners and big thanks to the judges (Sister She, deepstrasz and twojstaryjakcie), to the host Mr.Henci, to Ragnaros17 & others for general helping around, and to all to participants of course - what would a contest be without participants, right?

    Also don't worry about the awards, they will be dealt soon™.




    @Pyrogasm ah yes I see your concern. Bo has already answered you but I'll confirm that this is how POSSIBLE_VOTES has been calculated:

    Now, regarding this:
    I see haha, however your last statement is moving more into the realm of interpretation, perhaps? It makes sense to have a HIGHEST_VOTED variable in place of POSSIBLE_VOTES (and it'd make my job easier because I wouldn't have to each of the 60+ motherf who voted in the poll), so I could definitely bring this up to see if others agree to have it as a new standard.




    That's the beauty of having many judges. The artsy aspects can be very arbitrary (terrain, creativity, etc) and vary wildly, while the objective aspect (balance in this contest) can be subject to a judge overlooking a flaw when hastly looking at the map or the judges have different personal standards of what's deserving a 0/10 and what isn't.

    We balance this through having more than one judge and with the pre-determined judge criteria.
     
  19. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I do understand that there are differences between judges, just not as drastic.

    For example, if I google "witcher 3 reviews":
    ign: 9.3/10
    metacritic: 92/100
    trustedreviews: 10/10
    gamespot: 9.3/10
    expertreviews: 5/5
    eurogamer: 5/5
    pcgamer: 92/100
    theguardian: 5/5
    techspot: 95/100


    Different scores but they are relatively close.
    Obviously, you will get 1/10 reviews on platforms like steam no matter how good the game is, but those are not proper reviews most of the time.
    So I can understand that someone gives balance 5/10 and another 9/10 but more than that is very questionable.

    [​IMG]

    Explain to me how this makes sense with the criterias: balance, terrain, uniqueness, bugs
    Because I truly do not get it. Provided they use the same criteria.
    Because if we scale this down to the map section system we get:
    0.75/5
    4.80/5
    2.95/5

    How can one person give 1/5 balance, 1/5 uniqueness, 1/5 terrain and 1/5 bugs while another gives 5/5

    ???? those are somewhat objective

    The only conclusion I can draw from the score is that it is a coinflip if I like it or not since it seems to be super different from person to person. In which case what is the point of the review in the first place
     
  20. mafe

    mafe

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    Congratulations to the winners!